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God Zamasu Mid Godly regeneration removal
- Thread starter EldemadeDityjon
- Start date
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EldemadeDityjon
He/Him- 16,917
- 12,599
- Thread starter
- #242
Crazy it's wiki standard explanation not mine. How you people just saying without showing proof for mind getting destroyed. I just made the CRT because it doesn't seems to be comes under wiki standard. Wiki clearly states soul and mind not that soul or mind.
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Buu has regeneration properties that allow him to regenerate his brain.
Also even if we go with your route, which is "Buu's mind exist without the brain" or "Ghost have a mind without having the brain" (Those are your arguments).
Ghosts are souls in Dragon Ball, and they have a mind. So even if their mind isn't connected to the brain in the worst scenario, it's still connected to the soul.
Since Hakai erases souls, the mind would get erased as well regardless.
Long story short, the arguments against Mid Godly simply don't work in any case.
And tbf, the initial arguments were weak to begin with, since they rely on Reverse burden of proof . (Fortunately Green is a great debater).
"Prove the mind depends on the brain", That is not how it works no matter what you want to believe (because we've never treated it like that and anybody who's been here long enough knows that). The real question is "Prove the mind is NOT dependent on the brain" because the former (Mind depends on brain) is the default assumption, not the latter.
If you don't believe me, just ask a staff member.
Anyway this is my final take on the matter. I'll wait for staff to evaluate all this. I'm getting tired of going in circles.
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And the mind is treated as at least as abstract as the soul. You can ask Gilver for confirmation. So the connection here is a similar one to the one between a body and the soul.
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I disagree with removing Mid-Godly based on the counter arguments
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I know that, but it isn't accepted on here.afaik.
The main argument doesn't really change tho, the mind would get destroyed regardless.
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Eh I think it is.
Tbf if someone wanted to they could just claim that Zamasu's and Ginyu's ability are just that potent that they affect both the mind and soul I think.
Which leaves you with only ki being the power of the mind and soul as evidence iirc, which would give everyone soul- and mindhax.
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Sure. They'd need proof of that though.
Also you just spent the whole thread arguing against standard assumptions and now you hit me with a standard assumption (Mind as abstract as the soul)
And I just spent the whole thread trying to explain that it being abstract doesn't necessarily mean it's indipendent from everything else.
The mind being abstract is a thing. The mind being disembodied from the brain and/or the soul is another.
With the latter, the burden of proof falls on your side.
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Tbf, we don’t have any proof that the mind can been or can not been separated from the soul or body and same conclusion can been used for fiction since they don’t always dwell on that ngl.
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Also the debate surrounding whatever or not mind is truly separate or not relied on the absence of proof itself.
Quite frankly, it is already a different issue altogether since fiction don’t tend to always went out of its way to say “the mind is separate from the soul and/or body” or the other way around too. In fact, I can easily argue they ignore that issue by not addressing that subjective topic in general
Quite frankly, it is already a different issue altogether since fiction don’t tend to always went out of its way to say “the mind is separate from the soul and/or body” or the other way around too. In fact, I can easily argue they ignore that issue by not addressing that subjective topic in general
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We assume that stuff works under Real Life logic unless proven otherwise. I can understand your PoV on the matter tho.
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https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3115284/ I just check up on and interesting according to this article:
“here is a great difference between mind and body, inasmuch as body is by nature always divisible, and the mind is entirely indivisible. …When I consider the mind, that is to say, myself inasmuch as I am only a thinking being, I cannot distinguish in myself any parts, but apprehend myself to be clearly one and entire; and though the whole mind seems to be united to the whole body, yet if a foot, or an arm, or some other part, is separated from the body, I am aware that nothing has been taken from my mind. And the faculties of willing, feeling, conceiving, etc. cannot be properly speaking said to be its parts, for it is one and the same mind which employs itself in willing and in feeling and understanding. But it is quite otherwise with corporeal or extended objects, for there is not one of them imaginable by me which my mind cannot easily divide into parts. …This would be sufficient to teach me that the mind or soul of man is entirely different from the body, if I had not already been apprised of it on other grounds.”
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So in summary, they conclude the mind does have connections to the soul, but is distinct enough to stand on its own.
The fact they even tried to answer questions about the soul and mind have make this pretty interesting.
The fact they even tried to answer questions about the soul and mind have make this pretty interesting.
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Although I will note even now, both soul and mind is still a mystery that science have yet to complete resolve though.
EldemadeDityjon
He/Him- 16,917
- 12,599
- Thread starter
- #256
Yeah we can close this after removing mid godly regeneration. Also already a staff asked for scan no one even thought about sending any.
EldemadeDityjon
He/Him- 16,917
- 12,599
- Thread starter
- #257
Regeneration
Regeneration, often referred to as a healing factor, is the ability to passively heal oneself from wounds at an accelerated rate, with many characters proving capable of regenerating from wounds that would be lethal to normal humans. It has several different levels that range in potency from...
vsbattles.fandom.com
Low-Godly: The ability to regenerate from the complete physical destruction of the user's body, instead restoring it from their disembodied consciousness, whether that be their soul, mind, some other nonphysical aspect of themself, esoteric or metaphysical energy, or something else.
Brain
Vs
Mind
Brain & mind are different things. Just so a character needs to keep its tier people are twisting whole meaning into something else. It's clearly mentioned mind is non physical aspects where brain is physical aspects. Even if we go by real life example it's pretty clear.
Brain is physical aspects and it's gets destroyed when physical body gets destroyed I already linked the explanation for that above.
Wiki standard even considered mind as non physical aspects. That's why it's clearly mentioned soul , mind or some other non physical aspects. How the heck would brain would be fine and a character can Regenerate even their physical body Completely gets negged.
Mid-Godly: The ability to regenerate from the complete erasure of body, mind, and soul.
Here it's pretty much states mind and soul not brain and soul. Beside when a character reaches low godly only brain would be destroyed alongside with physical body there won't be anything left for mid godly.
At this point people are just desparate towards their favourite characters keeping a rating even though it's completely wrong and ignoring everything regarding the whole wiki standard and Common knowledge.
Anyway if there is no proof provided for mind getting erased then I will still suggest to remove Mid Godly regeneration and replace with low godly regeneration.
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No one agrees to that but yourself
And every staff that has commented says No to the removal
Also the scan he asked for was about Ginyu which this thread is not even about in the first place
And giving the scan or not giving it disproves Mid-Godly in no way at all
Even if we dont give the Ginyu scan (which we dont have cause this ain't about him) it only goes back to default standard of Mind being in the Brain (unless proven otherwise) which would have still been erased regardless and still giving Zamasu Mid-Godly
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Not all staffs say no though. Only a few did and deem it acceptable with Phoenks asking for evidence.
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Elizhaa and Maverick said No
Phoenks asked for scan of Ginyu's Body swap being soul-hax which Null already disproved
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They only based it on what they read. However, the counter arguments is hinging on the mind = soul = body when there is irl evidence to the contrary here. The mind is deems complete separate from the body as noted by the research and points made regarding the more non physical elements. You have to argue against philosophy and science on this alone.
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The default standard we follow is the mind being linked to the brain unless a verse points out otherwise
If you disagree with the default standard then go make a CTR to change/revise it
Vietthai96
He/Him- 10,250
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And science also don't believe in soul, what is your point when you bring real life philosophy in here, we debate about fiction. At this point everything is completely derail into something else.
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You sure about that? While it is true the brain does contain the mind, it never specifically say the mind will been destroyed with the brain though especially this is not your average human being.
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While this is fair, I have to acknowledge that science has acknowledged a soul can possibly exist given on what I posted above earlier so there is that.
Vietthai96
He/Him- 10,250
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And did that science also acknowledge mind is more abstract than soul?, because by all mean, depend on real life point of view, soul could be even more abstract than mind. So debate real life philosophy here is irrelevant, since philosophy itself is abstract, everything product from it is also abstract in nature
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Yes
It is the Default Standard that it is destroyed unless it is specifically pointed out in verse not to be the case
Again, if you have a problem with the default standard, go make a CTR to revise it
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You do realize this wasn’t stated at all in any of the official pages. Heck, they will have note it on the regen page if what you say is true.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3115284/ I already posted it here, but read the top part here as they are acknowledged the abstract part anyway.
Vietthai96
He/Him- 10,250
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I think we derail the thread enough with irl philosophy, let us stop here
Gilad_Hyperstar
He/Him- 11,411
- 4,333
Honestly, this thread should just be closed, especially since every staff that came to the CRT and read the argument, disagreed with it
EldemadeDityjon
He/Him- 16,917
- 12,599
- Thread starter
- #272
Phoenix asked for proof can't you read?. Lmao how none have any proof to back up your claims and just trying to close the thread for self satisfaction.
EldemadeDityjon
He/Him- 16,917
- 12,599
- Thread starter
- #273
Mind and brain are different things. It's been already proven. It's your burden of proof to show scans for Hakai able to erase mind also.Regeneration
Regeneration, often referred to as a healing factor, is the ability to passively heal oneself from wounds at an accelerated rate, with many characters proving capable of regenerating from wounds that would be lethal to normal humans. It has several different levels that range in potency from...
Low-Godly: The ability to regenerate from the complete physical destruction of the user's body, instead restoring it from their disembodied consciousness, whether that be their soul, mind, some other nonphysical aspect of themself, esoteric or metaphysical energy, or something else.
Brain
Vs
Mind
Brain & mind are different things. Just so a character needs to keep its tier people are twisting whole meaning into something else. It's clearly mentioned mind is non physical aspects where brain is physical aspects. Even if we go by real life example it's pretty clear.
Brain is physical aspects and it's gets destroyed when physical body gets destroyed I already linked the explanation for that above.
Wiki standard even considered mind as non physical aspects. That's why it's clearly mentioned soul , mind or some other non physical aspects. How the heck would brain would be fine and a character can Regenerate even their physical body Completely gets negged.
Mid-Godly: The ability to regenerate from the complete erasure of body, mind, and soul.
Here it's pretty much states mind and soul not brain and soul. Beside when a character reaches low godly only brain would be destroyed alongside with physical body there won't be anything left for mid godly.
At this point people are just desparate towards their favourite characters keeping a rating even though it's completely wrong and ignoring everything regarding the whole wiki standard and Common knowledge.
Anyway if there is no proof provided for mind getting erased then I will still suggest to remove Mid Godly regeneration and replace with low godly regeneration.
Brain is physical aspects*
Mind is non physical aspects*
Wiki treats Mind as non physical aspects*
I hope you can see this. Only thing I see now is fans just trying to dump this under the rag. Funny even how many times I show difference between mind and brain you people just using same repeated arguments without proof.
EldemadeDityjon
He/Him- 16,917
- 12,599
- Thread starter
- #274
Yes. It should be noted.
Gilad_Hyperstar
He/Him- 11,411
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Can't you read? Staff have already read this thread and your argumets and disagreed. Even netural people that came to evaluate the thread are disagreeing with you.
The scan that Phoenix requested has nothing to do with this CRT, nor am I obliged to do anything for you to search for said scan
At this point you should just cope with this fact and drop it. Also, keep your language.
EldemadeDityjon
He/Him- 16,917
- 12,599
- Thread starter
- #276
It does because you literally claimed soul & mind are same
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What? The Mind in reference here is the metaphysical mind, the physical brain being destroyed does not constitute Mind Destruction or literally like everything could have Mind Hax due to being able to destroy a brain.
Afaik that has never been how its been treated on VSBW.
(For reference I dont have any interest in what happens with Zamasu and Mid-Godly but this is just an incorrect statement of how its treated on this Wiki)
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Was asked to close this since it's apparently completed and rejected.
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