God (DC Comics) Profile Making Explanation

[Hykuu]

Grant Morrison directly says that The Source/God/Overvoid are one in the same, and each are just different interpretations and views of the same being

During Countdown, The Monitors directly use The Source and The Primal Monitor (Overmonitor) Interchangeably

Cronus describes The Godwave, Or the Source, as "The Power of the Presence!"

There's a singular God which sits on top of every other God and Creation in DC but simply differs in interpretation and view between Pantheon as confirmed by Grant


WM states that he feels The Source beyond the Gates of Heaven, and we know In the same Issue it was stated that God was just chilling there, during Day of Judgement (Asmodel Spectre 5 issue story)

Even the Martians Percieve there to be an Unnameable God Beyond All Gods, which follows into the whole "One God above All Pantheons but different Interpretation" stuff

The Supreme Being/Presence has been known by a million names, in a million cultures, in a million worlds, but when you remove all the masks of identity, it is simply the same, Singular, Ultimate God beyond All.

There is an Ultimate God who created all Other Gods, referring to the Presence, who is without beginning or End, the Alpha and Omega, He is the Voice, The Word, The Supreme Entity who floats in the Void, planning Creation.

Essentially, the point I am trying to make here is that, in nearly every single depiction of God, there is something which references all the supreme deities being the same aspect/Being the Absolute upon which all ideas and beings are based upon, with each person percieving this God DIFFERENTLY; and This God taking the forms of either:


The Source/Overvoid/The Presence

We are NOT removing the profiles for these characters, but simply making a composite profile named "God (DC Comics)", with an explanation in the notes.

Credit to ClassicNESfan:

"The Source, for example, who is established to encompass and surpass all of creation, imagine everything in the universe into existence , be a part of everybody, answers to "God", heavily implied to be an aspect of the entity The Spectre serves, and we even have explanations throughout DC suggesting that the supreme being is just referred to differently depending on who's asking"

The Dream part is specially important because Dematteis also establishes God as dreaming all of existence

fin.

 

[ClassicNESfan]

Right. So the idea here is that this will be a separate profile that explains the entity all those things are supposed to be aspects of. Given that The Overvoid is one of the related aspects, obviously I think its tiering should be High 1-A.

 

[Joemungousaur]

I'm completely agree with this.

 

[Ionliosite]

So the 3 profiles will be deleted and their info merged into a new God profile?

 

[ClassicNESfan]

No. That is a common misunderstanding that we are trying to avoid. This thread is about making a profile for God. The Presence, The Source, and The Overvoid are all various aspects of the same entity. So we are discussing making a profile for that entity.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

We'll have three keys. Presence, Source and Overvoid. In this order.

 

[ClassicNESfan]

Do we really need any keys though? I mean we already have profiles for The Presence, The Source, and The Overvoid. Those profiles portray their abilities fine, I think. If we're making a profile for the entity that they all make up, then maybe there should only be one statistic to represent the composite of all three.

 

[Hykuu]

what about a note explaining that the source, the presence and overvoid are merged

 

[ClassicNESfan]

I think that should implicit in the description of the entity.

 

[Hykuu]

works 2

 

[ClassicNESfan]

Either way, I think your last thread is evidence enough that Knowledgeable Members agree on this. It's only a matter of actually making the profile.

 

[Antvasima]

Yes. Is somebody experienced willing to handle it?

 

[ClassicNESfan]

Just as long as we all agree it should be a High 1-A entity. Somebody on this thread has already mistaken our intentions for an attempt to replace the current profiles for The Presence, The Source, and The Overvoid. I want to make it clear one more time that that is not the goal here. Those profiles can continue to operate in their current states. This is just about making a profile for the entity that they are each aspects of. The composite concept of "God" in the DC universe.

 

[Kepekley23]

I'll do it.

 

[ClassicNESfan]

Cool. Thanks, Kep.

 

[Antvasima]

Yes. Thank you for helping out.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

Hm.

 

[Kepekley23]

Do we really need any keys though? I mean we already have profiles for The Presence, The Source, and The Overvoid. Those profiles portray their abilities fine, I think. If we're making a profile for the entity that they all make up, then maybe there should only be one statistic to represent the composite of all three.

I agree with this.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

I disagree, because that gives of the vibe that The Presence, The Source and The Overvoid are all aspects of a greater entity, while in fact they are the same principle in different stages of emanation and manifestation. From an unconscious empty creative potential, to an impersonal, all-pervading primordial force, to a personal, conscious, active creator entity.

 

[Kepekley23]

The Presence that we see can't be anything but an avatar of the "true" Presence, since Morrison describes "God" (ie. YHWH) as being on the same level of existence as the Source and the "non-dual Monitor-Mind".

 

[ClassicNESfan]

They're three things and one thing at the same time.

I don't think the solution is to delete all of their pages in favor of one combined page, but if we aren't going to make a profile for the composite entity, then perhaps it would be better if we just put a note at the bottom of each of their pages explaining that they are all connected and link to the other aspects. We already have something resembling that, and it would be a lot easier than making a whole new profile.

 

[Kepekley23]

I have created the profile; https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/God_(DC_Comics)

Can people evaluate it, as well as add it to the DC Comics page? I'll have to head out now, so I don't have the time to do it myself.

Also, an image to represent the composite entity itself might be in order...

 

[Antvasima]

Thank you for helping out,

 

[ClassicNESfan]

Heck, actually, yeah. That seems like a good way of satisfying everybody. The entities exist separately and together in the comics and on our profiles to explain the situation thoroughly. It's an abstract concept to grasp, but I think this handles it well.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

I think that page was very bad no offense meant. I also dislike the insistance on a single key.

And yes, I'd rather there be an explanation note as opposed to something else.

 

[Antvasima]

@Matthew

What do you wish to change in the page?

 

[DarkLK]

Will Yahweh be a separate character or is it identified with the Presence? Yahweh seems to be a more mundane emanation of God than the Presence. Like a "form" of God that the lower beings dream of.

In addition, as far as I remember, although things like the Voice and the Word are identified with God, they are still below the Presence.

 

[DarkLK]

In addition, I think this image is more suitable for the Presence than the image of the human form of Yahweh.



At least this thing was clearly called the Presence.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

There are other, better images personally that I could look for.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

Will Yahweh be a separate character or is it identified with the Presence? Yahweh seems to be a more mundane emanation of God than the Presence. Like a "form" of God that the lower beings dream of.
In addition, as far as I remember, although things like the Voice and the Word are identified with God, they are still below the Presence.

That's exactly my point.

The Presence seems to be interchangable with The Source, being an all-pervading, all-surrounding and unfathomable force which sustains all things, while Yawheh, despite being overwhelmingly powerful in all ways, isn't that.

Like I said before, I am of the strong opinion that God in DC Comics is an entity / force / concept that's subgradiated through multiple subsequent emanations, starting with The Overvoid (The Empty White Expanse that acts as the origin point of all creative potential, the sleeping, unfathomable mind that lies in the background of all things), passing through The Source (The infinite, unconscious and impersonal primordial energy that surrounds and encompasses all things), and finally reaching The Presence / Yahweh (The conscious, active Godhead that rules with authority over all existence).

 

[DarkLK]

Yes, God is obviously a multi-stage entity. But I wonder how exactly its full structure will look.

I saw it somehow like that, but I am not a DC expert, so I don't think that this scheme is accurate.

The Overvoid => The Source => The Presence => Yahweh (conscious form of God in the local Creation formed by the dreams of lower creatures), Elaine Belloc (Yahweh's analogue) => The Voice, The Word, The Great Evil Beast (local manifestations of the God's essence) => The Decreator (indirect local manifestation of God's essence)

It seems there was something else. Probably demiurgic archangels are also indirect aspects of God.

I think it would be nice to structure God in more detail in the profile.

 

[Sandman31]

Just saying that I think that Mother Night and Father Time would be more powerful than Yahweh, since it was staed that Yahweh is just the Creator of this version of Creation (there were other creations older than God himself like Cestis creation), and that there have been Makers and Creations before Yahweh and that there will be more after him. Yahweh was also stated to be shaped by dreams. Father Time and Mother Night, on the otherhand, were stated to be the reason why people cam dream ("In it people can dream and die") and what makes all possible versions of Creation ("In that coming together, the universe was possible. All versions of it")

https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:Sandman31/DC/Vertigo

 

[Sandman31]

So if we decide to not make seperate key for "Sandman/Lucifer Presence" then the scaling will be

The Overvoid => The Source => The Presence => Mother Night And Father Tim e=> Yahweh (conscious form of God in the local Creation formed by the dreams of lower creatures), Elaine Belloc (Yahweh's analogue) => The Voice, The Word, The Great Evil Beast (local manifestations of the God's essence) => The Decreator (indirect local manifestation of God's essence)

 

[Antvasima]

Sandman31 seems to make sense to me.

 

[By_My_Neck]

Wait, the De-Creator is connected to the Presence?

 

[Sandman31]

When God said "let there be light", the decreator is basically "the shadow" casted by the "light"

 

[By_My_Neck]

So the De: Creator and the Great Evil Beast are the same?

 

[Sandman31]

No, The GBE has always been there. Its was not created by the Presence. The Decreatpr is more like an echo of Gods word

 

[DarkLK]

I thought that the Endless and their parents are more like mechanisms of the world than aspects and manifestations of God.

 

[Deleted member 2530]

Just saying that I think that Mother Night and Father Time would be more powerful than Yahweh, since it was staed that Yahweh is just the Creator of this version of Creation (there were other creations older than God himself like Cestis creation), and that there have been Makers and Creations before Yahweh and that there will be more after him. Yahweh was also stated to be shaped by dreams. Father Time and Mother Night, on the otherhand, were stated to be the reason why people cam dream ("In it people can dream and die") and what makes all possible versions of Creation ("In that coming together, the universe was possible. All versions of it")

https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:Sandman31/DC/Vertigo

If we go by what is being said here in this thread. Its not that the previous creations are not of Yahweh but the perceptions of Yahweh between the current and previous creation is different. Like how all are created by the same being but the Godhead is perceived different.