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With speed unequalised, Giorno can definitely land the first hit and use his causality manipulation. Vash has causality manipulation too, but can it counter Giorno's? It seems to me that if he can't resist Giorno's causality manipulation then Giorno will just trap him in an eternal loop before he can react making this a stomp, and if he does resist it then he hits Giorno and splatters him. One-shot either way.
 
With speed unequalised, Giorno can definitely land the first hit and use his causality manipulation. Vash has causality manipulation too, but can it counter Giorno's? It seems to me that if he can't resist Giorno's causality manipulation then Giorno will just trap him in an eternal loop before he can react making this a stomp, and if he does resist it then he hits Giorno and splatters him. One-shot either way.
Giorno can only put people if he is able to kill them first... And, uh, well... GER isn't capable in the slightest of leaving a scratch on Vash - at best, Giorno's GER can reset Vash's attacks to zero to prevent Giorno from dying but he would never be able to do anything else since even Vash breathing on Giorno can instantly kill him on the spot.
 
Ok so as there is no resistence to Causal stuff, Ger will passively defend Giorno just fine. So now the question is, can giorno actually beat this guy, instead of inconning. Now, I don’t believe this guy resists age manipulation, therefore giorno should be able to win this way, it’s just a very ooc choice. However, if this guy resists age manip, then giorno and him incon
 
Giorno can only put people if he is able to kill them first... And, uh, well... GER isn't capable in the slightest of leaving a scratch on Vash - at best, Giorno's GER can reset Vash's attacks to zero to prevent Giorno from dying but he would never be able to do anything else since even Vash breathing on Giorno can instantly kill him on the spot.
It doesn't help that GER is both vague as all shit in the story and inflated to insane degrees on versus forums. Still, he was able to nullify Diavolo's attacks without killing him first. And I know there's a debate as to whether he can just destroy someone by existing, has to touch them to causality manipulate them, or has to actually be able to harm them with his Stand's physical attacks to destroy them with the causality manipulation. If it's the last one, then he'll use his superior speed to flail against Vash's superior durability, until Vash attacks back, plowing right through any defenses and smashing Giorno. It doesn't help that the power difference is such that Vash sneezes and Giorno's flesh is blown off his bones.
 
That's why guides exist 🗿
I'm not saying it's vague what Giorno's power does. It's vague whether the causality manipulation only reduces everything to zero by killing them first, if he needs to hit them first, or if it's active all the time and anyone who fights him has already lost. I've seen arguments on many forums including this one for all of those things. And Giorno's page doesn't seem to clarify which one is accepted on the Wiki.
 
Giorno against high tiers is dumb because he can't win with tier 8 AP. You just have to hope he frauds his way into making his opponent hit some life form he creates, or that the sensory fuckery thing from GE works
 
I'm not saying it's vague what Giorno's power does. It's vague whether the causality manipulation only reduces everything to zero by killing them first, if he needs to hit them first, or if it's active all the time and anyone who fights him has already lost. I've seen arguments on many forums including this one for all of those things. And Giorno's page doesn't seem to clarify which one is accepted on the Wiki.
And I'm saying guides kinda help answer that.
RTZ is semi-automatic, it will automatically RTZ someone they moment they attempt ill action against Gio or GER, even in situations they otherwise can't act. This is automatic, and happens without contact, killing, or what not. Of course, GER can use RTZ manually as well, but in regards to actions against them, it's automatic.
It's active as long as he has Requiem.
But a caveat, the death loop, he DOES need to kill, this is confirmed twice in JoJoveller and it even confirms that GER itself killed Diavolo as the initial death not the addict, reason being is with other things he simply says "no" which of course makes them not happen as you'd expect, but here, what he's doing is resetting one death, ad infinitum, thus, he needs there to be an initial death, as such his foe needs to die first or at least experience the act of dying, in which GER can have that reset infinitely so they die forever, but obviously he can't reset a death infinitely if no death exists for him to RTZ.
 
Giorno against high tiers is dumb because he can't win with tier 8 AP. You just have to hope he frauds his way into making his opponent hit some life form he creates, or that the sensory fuckery thing from GE works
He has age manipulation
 
I don't doubt he could inject someone with life energy to age them, but has he ever used it on anything other than a tree?
 
And I'm saying guides kinda help answer that.
RTZ is semi-automatic, it will automatically RTZ someone they moment they attempt ill action against Gio or GER, even in situations they otherwise can't act. This is automatic, and happens without contact, killing, or what not. Of course, GER can use RTZ manually as well, but in regards to actions against them, it's automatic.
It's active as long as he has Requiem.
But a caveat, the death loop, he DOES need to kill, this is confirmed twice in JoJoveller and it even confirms that GER itself killed Diavolo as the initial death not the addict, reason being is with other things he simply says "no" which of course makes them not happen as you'd expect, but here, what he's doing is resetting one death, ad infinitum, thus, he needs there to be an initial death, as such his foe needs to die first or at least experience the act of dying, in which GER can have that reset infinitely so they die forever, but obviously he can't reset a death infinitely if no death exists for him to RTZ.
Yeah, I read the blog about it a few hours ago. Still, it means for the most part he'll either stomp or be stomped, either make his enemy useless or the enemy resists and crushes him. And if he can't damage them and they can't attack him then it's an Inconclusive.
 
Yeah, I read the blog about it a few hours ago. Still, it means for the most part he'll either stomp or be stomped, either make his enemy useless or the enemy resists and crushes him. And if he can't damage them and they can't attack him then it's an Inconclusive.
The blog is actually old as **** iirc, probably outdated. But yeah probably
 
Unless Vash's own causality manipulation, or one of his other abilities, can counter Giorno enough to resist Return to Zero, then this seems like another Inconclusive. I guess if Vash is willing to wait 90 years for Giorno to die of old age we can call him the winner...
 
The blog is actually old as **** iirc, probably outdated. But yeah probably
In fairness, what the blog describes was what I already thought was the case about GER, so I can fill in the gaps more or less. I was getting confused about if it was correct or not because other people here were bringing up other requirements, and I've heard those arguments elsewhere too.
 
Unless Vash's own causality manipulation, or one of his other abilities, can counter Giorno enough to resist Return to Zero, then this seems like another Inconclusive. I guess if Vash is willing to wait 90 years for Giorno to die of old age we can call him the winner...
Vash can live for like thousands of years and doesn't need to eat to keep ticking. RTZ needs Gio to kill the opponent in order to work iirc, and with Vash's insanely high durability amongst his stupid good I.R from his Angel Wings which are passive I really don't see how Gio is taking the dub here.


Also to specify on Vash's causality Manipulation, much weaker Plants already break down Causality on a 4-D level, arguably 5-D. So I'd say that Vash has the more potent causality hax out of the two, issue here that he won't ever use said hax directly.


He uses his Plant hax to create black hole bullets which can destroy shit beyond a Marco quantum level and has city wide EE with his Angel Arm.
 
Vash can live for like thousands of years and doesn't need to eat to keep ticking. RTZ needs Gio to kill the opponent in order to work iirc, and with Vash's insanely high durability amongst his stupid good I.R from his Angel Wings which are passive I really don't see how Gio is taking the dub here.
gio needs to kill his opponent to put them in a death loop, not to use RTZ.
 
gio needs to kill his opponent to put them in a death loop, not to use RTZ.
Ah I see. Well in that case I'll still have to vote for Vash, unless Gio has feats of using RTZ on 4-D to arguably 5-D hax then I don't see it working on Vash's black hole bullets.
 
It just has to work on vash himself, to prevent him from doing anythign. It’s gonna passively prevent him from doing anything that will harm giorno, and ger can choose to actively prevent other things, like movement.
Once again, RTZ isn't gonna do much here. Vash is a pacifist first of all, amongst the fact that Vash has already countered much stronger causality Manipulation from Knives.


Stopping his movement is irrelevant due to I.R
 
How did he do this?
With his one causality Manipulation that negated one another.

Vash's own causality manipulation is pretty impressive given that he nuked all of Knives other selves through his type 3 Acausality, and Vash's causality Manipulation negated all of that.
 
Ah I see. Wel, from what I’ve seen, rtz is 4d, but if his caus can neg 4d stuff, then giornos only wincon is too age manip, his speed Adavantage could possibly make up for how ooc it is, but eh.
 
RTZ does have 4D feats, nothing 5D tho.
 
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