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GER Upgrades

>"I can agree on that front, we dont know what exactly it could be (even though everything points to it being fate manipulation, and causality manipulation is actually wrong in this case, or at least in the manner GER uses it so that's a no go, at least for this specifiv attribute, but that'd matter little all things considered) Although seeing as GER is talking about afte in context, GER is supposed to represent overcoming fate, and Part 5 is about fate, and Diavolo's death is supposed to be about him never reaching his fate, I dont know why you're having trouble figuring out what type of power was actually in play."

Nothing points to fate manip, the power is described by some interpretable words in GER's Stand stats. What GER talks about has do to with its ability before that, if you want to claim it has do with this one then good for you, but that's holds no water. Whatever representing something has nothing to do with the specific way the powers of a character work given the sheer meaning of represent, even removing this part of its power Part 5 and GER still represent their stuff very well. Diavolo's never going to reach his fate anyway as he was defeated, using that as a point does nothing.

>"I'd also like to point out that GER's power isnt causality manipulation, it's just something he can do with his main power. In the same vain he can manipulate someone's fate. Dont forget that him being able to do c&e manip doesnt mean he cant do other things. And he's shown to do other things."

For the most part, Stands have one ability (as stated by the verse itself) and other powers they have are an extension of that. Is that a good point? No, it means little to nothing, but it's still far more context than what something is meant to represent, that seriously means nothing.

>"As for pocket reality manipulation, that isnt even implied or hinted at, in anything, ever, like, I cant even think of noncanon things where that's implied, hinted at or stated, not even in interviews with Araki. Why are you bringing up much less likely alternatives to something that's supported by more than just a simple guess? Especially when fate manipulation, at least to some extent is supported by not only what GER says, what GER means, what GER is, what happens to Diavolo in the end, what happens to Diavolo is supposed to mean and Part 5 as a whole. Let's be real here Eficiente. Everything but it being written on a piece of paper and shoved down your throat is done to imply that he has at least some goverment over fate. And we dont always need a super in depth explanation to go yeah, a character can do that."

It is implied, stuff happens and will keep happening to Diavolo in a place that isn't reality, and that's due GER's power. Thus, GER could be making that happen in a another reality, simple as that. Fate manip isn't any more likely than this. As for the last part, the same can be said about less convoluted powers, but those require less assumptions.

>"Yes, unfortunatly that didnt happen to Diavolo in question, and that's also not how that works at all? Having will power nulled doesnt mean youre going to be killed 100% guranteed by something out of your control, especially when Diavolo doesnt want that to happen so it aint because of him."

What are you even saying there? I didn't say that having the willpower power nulled means the target's going to be killed 100% guranteed, I said that 'cuz the target has its willpower nulled it can be said the same GER's Stand stats say. At times Diavolo couldn't even more move and we never even see him use his Stand, does that mean anything related to this? Maybe.

>"And are you screwing with me? Diavolo himself deduces that it's happening because of GER, not reality, and we know it's happening because of GER's powers, not the universe. If youre gonna bring up alternatives, do so with something that isnt denied by the source material."

Bro, if after dying Diavolo were to kill himself or get killed by Mista he could still deduce that that it's happening because of GER, 'cuz GER started everything. As in, if anything were to happen to him he could still do that. I said the realm itslef doing that as a possibility as this will happen to Diavolo forever but Giono himself isn't immortal. But hey, here's something interesting, Giorno was said to have its power forever, which is poetic in the sense that, again, he's not immortal.
 
>Nothing points to fate manip, the power is described by some interpretable words in GER's Stand stats. What GER talks about has do to with its ability before that, if you want to claim it has do with this one then good for you, but that's holds no water.

Plenty points to fate manip, the fact you're blind to it is baffling. What GER says is that Diavolo will never reach reality, which in context means he's never go to reach his fate/meaning. And no it isnt just what he did seconds prior because Giorno himself reiterates that Diavolo will never reach reality referring to Diavolo's death specifically and GER being the source of it so cut that shit out, it'd do you good to read further than just one or two pages. Holds no water? You'd be right if you only read a few pages and assumed that was it, but it wasnt and as such you're wrong.

>Whatever representing something has nothing to do with the specific way the powers of a character work given the sheer meaning of represent, even removing this part of its power Part 5 and GER still represent their stuff very well.

Diavolo could never reach his fate, his fate of beating Giorno plus his fate of dying, both were said on panel. And both are explicitly meant to represent fate. Which GER ****** with to make neither happen and the continued to fuc with to make Diavolo die, a lot, ad infinitum.

>Diavolo's never going to reach his fate anyway as he was defeated, using that as a point does nothing.

Diavolo's never going to reach his fate of dying either but ok ignore that. And he aint going to reach his fate because of GER. And not due to causality manipulation either.

>For the most part, Stands have one ability (as stated by the verse itself) and other powers they have are an extension of that. Is that a good point? No, it means little to nothing, but it's still far more context than what something is meant to represent, that seriously means nothing.

Yes, Stands have one ability as a general assumption but that aint hard fact, let me just ring up whitesnake (discs, acid, illusions, dream manipulation, mind hax, sleep inducement, etc), Killer Queen (, a shit ton of stands in geneeral, etc. And clearly you lack reading comprehension. How many times did I state that just because it's done through something else doeant automatically invalidate it. GER has one main power (rtz, even though he has other powers too like energy projection and all his old shit for example so already your rebuttal is actually pointless because we know it isnt even true) but if he performs fate manip via rtz then it's valid, just as valid as him having death manipulation and causality manipulation through rtz or will power manipulation. Maybe represent is the wrong word, would you prefer if I said it litterally is supposed to be that?

>It is implied, stuff happens and will keep happening to Diavolo in a place that isn't reality, and that's due GER's power. Thus, GER could be making that happen in a another reality, simple as that. Fate manip isn't any more likely than this. As for the last part, the same can be said about less convoluted powers, but those require less assumptions.

Ok so you are in fact screwing with me then, good joke. It's not implied in the slightest. It's outright stated it's happening because of GER, no pocket reality bullshit or even the universe glitching out (mostly bcause it's stated to be happening because of GER's power meaning this conversation is pointless). Reality doesnt mean actual realities in context dude, reality is being used to mean something that matters, something that has meaning, and something that will come to pass, he even uses the word when talking about his deceased friends actions aving meaning and being born from reality, not evil actions.Yes alternate worlds are involved in diavolo's death, but that isnt what the word reality is being used for. How you're twisting what's said so much to mean actual universes and pocket realities and in a place that isnt reality, is actually astounding, I'm actually convinced you came up with that while writing that to try and strengthen your point. Because it's wrong, and not even in a "well it could be intepreted that way", no, it's actually wrong because that's not what he or anyone meant when using that word and we know that's not wha anyone meant. Hell, the first person to use reality at all was Diavolo when he was wondering if what he was looking at was reality. There's next to none assumptions being made, you just dont like it for some reason. GER uses his powers to screw with fate two (maybe three idk) times outside of causality manipulation. And we know that it's supposed to be fate, not something else. The only assumption being made is that it isnt fate manipulation.

>What are you even saying there? I didn't say that having the willpower power nulled means the target's going to be killed 100% guranteed, I said that 'cuz the target has its willpower nulled it can be said the same GER's Stand stats say. At times Diavolo couldn't even more move and we never even see him use his Stand, does that mean anything related to this? Maybe.

I dont know, what are you even talking about there. You said something, I responded to what you said, if that's not what you meant then you shouldve of been more exact, especially because bringing p will power manp is off topic, doesnt effect the scenes we are discussing, and is potentially even moving the goal posts.

It can be said? What can be said? that sentence isnt said in GER's bio, it says those struck by it will have their deaths and will power set to zero. Nothing more, nothing less and neither of which actually impact the topic at hand. Diavolo couldnt move for an entirely unrelated reaso. Dont even try to imply it was will power manip, we both know why he couldnt move and it wasnt due to his will, he wanted to move very badly. You'd only be making a fool out of yourself to claim that. Diavolo didnt use his stand post getting pummled because he probably couldnt. Not to mention half of it was dead, Epitaph for example? It was punched clean off in the manga, flew off its head, Gone forever.

>Bro, if after dying Diavolo were to kill himself or get killed by Mista he could still deduce that that it's happening because of GER, 'cuz GER started everything. As in, if anything were to happen to him he could still do that. I said the realm itslef doing that as a possibility as this will happen to Diavolo forever but Giono himself isn't immortal. But hey, here's something interesting, Giorno was said to have its power forever, which is poetic in the sense that, again, he's not immortal.

If, good thing Diavolo never actually kills himself and all deaths we know of and if he was killed by an alternate reality Mista, well so what? He was still fated to never reach his death, never to reach his fate, if mista killed him or not doesnt mean anything all it'd be is another example of it, and going by the information we know (Diavolo's statement before we never see him again. Where will it come from next, when will it strike next?), we can safely assume that it's never by his own hands. Not only are the deaths directly connected to GER and apart of its power as per the bio, and stated to be caused by GER according to Giorno. Diavolo himself says This is GER, not even this must be or is this?, not even a question mark or sense of doubt, he's stating a fact, he's dropping exposition. You have three things telling you that you're wrong, why do you still think your example holds any actual merit?
 
>"Plenty points to fate manip, the fact you're blind to it is baffling. What GER says is that Diavolo will never reach reality, which in context means he's never go to reach his fate/meaning. And no it isnt just what he did seconds prior because Giorno himself reiterates that Diavolo will never reach reality referring to Diavolo's death specifically and GER being the source of it so cut that shit out, it'd do you good to read further than just one or two pages. Holds no water? You'd be right if you only read a few pages and assumed that was it, but it wasnt and as such you're wrong."

Both what GER says and what Giorno says can perfectly fine be referring to GER's first power, Diavolo saw KC punching through Giorno, that's not going to happen, and now he's trapped in a death loop. KC punching through Giorno will still not happen and fate hax has nothing to do with it. Diavolo isn't even in the same place as Giorno & co. to try again that.

>"Diavolo could never reach his fate, his fate of beating Giorno plus his fate of dying, both were said on panel. And both are explicitly meant to represent fate. Which GER ****** with to make neither happen and the continued to fuc with to make Diavolo die, a lot, ad infinitum."

Stop using what something represents as a point, it is interpretable and unapplicable. That's why I said Causality Manip was more likely, Rt0 is that and the death loop could very well be related to such extension.

>"Diavolo's never going to reach his fate of dying either but ok ignore that. And he aint going to reach his fate because of GER. And not due to causality manipulation either."

I didn't ignore it, it had nothing to do with what I said. Whatever power(s) GER uses on Diavolo the same stuff can still be said, things like "he aint going to reach his fate because of GER" are 100% redundant. There is no reason for that last part.

>"Yes, Stands have one ability as a general assumption but that aint hard fact, let me just ring up whitesnake (discs, acid, illusions, dream manipulation, mind hax, sleep inducement, etc), Killer Queen (, a shit ton of stands in geneeral, etc. And clearly you lack reading comprehension. How many times did I state that just because it's done through something else doeant automatically invalidate it. GER has one main power (rtz, even though he has other powers too like energy projection and all his old shit for example so already your rebuttal is actually pointless because we know it isnt even true) but if he performs fate manip via rtz then it's valid, just as valid as him having death manipulation and causality manipulation through rtz or will power manipulation. Maybe represent is the wrong word, would you prefer if I said it litterally is supposed to be that?"

Yes, that's why I said it means "little to nothing", but there's the thing, context and suggestions are real things to point out as such, what something is meant to represent means nothing. My "rebuttal" is the context of Stands having one ability for the most part, no part of that is not true, let alone pointless and as it still aims to the idea of GER having the loop as an extension of its other power, especially considering the way it's said in its Stand description. Honestly, GER shouldn't even have death manip but this thread's already too long.

>"Ok so you are in fact screwing with me then, good joke. It's not implied in the slightest. It's outright stated it's happening because of GER, no pocket reality bullshit or even the universe glitching out (mostly bcause it's stated to be happening because of GER's power meaning this conversation is pointless). Reality doesnt mean actual realities in context dude, reality is being used to mean something that matters, something that has meaning, and something that will come to pass, he even uses the word when talking about his deceased friends actions aving meaning and being born from reality, not evil actions.Yes alternate worlds are involved in diavolo's death, but that isnt what the word reality is being used for. How you're twisting what's said so much to mean actual universes and pocket realities and in a place that isnt reality, is actually astounding, I'm actually convinced you came up with that while writing that to try and strengthen your point. Because it's wrong, and not even in a "well it could be intepreted that way", no, it's actually wrong because that's not what he or anyone meant when using that word and we know that's not wha anyone meant. Hell, the first person to use reality at all was Diavolo when he was wondering if what he was looking at was reality. There's next to none assumptions being made, you just dont like it for some reason. GER uses his powers to screw with fate two (maybe three idk) times outside of causality manipulation. And we know that it's supposed to be fate, not something else. The only assumption being made is that it isnt fate manipulation."

You missed how I myself used reality as the universe, I never said the manga did so, all we know is that Trish doesn't detect Diavolo. "It's happening because of GER" can still be said on my proposal. Your claims there don't make it true, why don't you construct how would you like to see it in his profile (with links, obviously)? Analyze that would be easier for me and others.

>"It can be said? What can be said? that sentence isnt said in GER's bio, it says those struck by it will have their deaths and will power set to zero. Nothing more, nothing less and neither of which actually impact the topic at hand. Diavolo couldnt move for an entirely unrelated reaso. Dont even try to imply it was will power manip, we both know why he couldnt move and it wasnt due to his will, he wanted to move very badly. You'd only be making a fool out of yourself to claim that. Diavolo didnt use his stand post getting pummled because he probably couldnt. Not to mention half of it was dead, Epitaph for example? It was punched clean off in the manga, flew off its head, Gone forever."

"It can be said" as in "what's said there happens due to reasons, those can be said to function like this:". Diavolo not moving and using his Stand went as a maybe there, how the hell I can't "Dont even try to imply" when you can use what something represents as points? Diavolo not moving was aimed at his first death too were he couldn't dodge something, which may or may not mean nothing. "Diavolo didnt use his stand post getting pummled because he probably couldnt." You do know this is the same I think and I'm proposing, no? On the last part, not really important but we don't know if KC was still destroyed, if Diavolo had his body fine then so should KC (well, unless it's like D4C's ears), Diavolo could have also make a comment about it, not being able to use his Stand isn't the same as not feeling it.

>"If, good thing Diavolo never actually kills himself and all deaths we know of and if he was killed by an alternate reality Mista, well so what? He was still fated to never reach his death, never to reach his fate, if mista killed him or not doesnt mean anything all it'd be is another example of it, and going by the information we know (Diavolo's statement before we never see him again. Where will it come from next, when will it strike next?), we can safely assume that it's never by his own hands. Not only are the deaths directly connected to GER and apart of its power as per the bio, and stated to be caused by GER according to Giorno. Diavolo himself says This is GER, not even this must be or is this?, not even a question mark or sense of doubt, he's stating a fact, he's dropping exposition. You have three things telling you that you're wrong, why do you still think your example holds any actual merit?"

You missed the point entirely and act as if I were to think something that I don't. Whatever happens to Diavolo after his first death can still be said to happen due to GER, that is a fact. You said that something didn't happen due to the fact that GER was responsable for it, I said it would still be responsable either way. Of course GER did that, I never implied that it wasn't a fact.
 
About Fate Manipulation and a new ability Reality Manipulation

I'm kind of on the fence about GER having Fate Manipulation. However, I would say that he does have "Resistance to Fate Manipulation via RtZ". Hear me out. Diavolo's forecasts are "guaranteed" to occur. But why didn't they? Well, I believe the answer is Reality Manipulation. Diavolo precog'd a reality where he won the fight with Giorno, however, that reality never happened. Diavolo never forecasted that the reality would change either, why? This leads me to believe that GER has Reality Manipulation. To further push this argument, Diavolo wasn't just killed. He was put into multiple realities where he died, but could never reach the truth of his death. Thus, being put in an infinite cycle of realities where he dies over, and over, and over, but to no end.

Space-Time manipulation via RtZ in Anime Portrayal

In the final moments when Diavolo uses his last attack on Giorno, he breaks, and destroys space and time itself within his erased time. GER, says "I'm unbeatable.", uses then RtZ. We witness him rewind space and time within Diavolo's erased time, putting space back together, putting time back together, even putting matter back together (Possible Matter Manipulation via RtZ), which Diavolo "erases" according to the chapters themselves (Limited Matter Creation via RtZ?). I mean, it's literally in the name. "Time Erasure".

I may have made some uh, big errors. I'm just throwing out some opinions, just like the rest of ya'. Feel free to point out any errors I've made. I wish to expand my knowledge on each and every verse in any way I can. Go easy on me.
 
Also, Diavolo states in the manga:

Code: 
"My forecasts... Are realities that are guaranteed to occur!"
 
It is a natural aspect, that doesnt mean one cant inherently scrww wih it to some extent. GEr wouldnt even be the first to do so.
 
Screwing with it wouldn't entail any sort of fate manip by its own. Josuke at no point did anything to change his fate of exploding at a specific time by Bites The Dust, he just dealt with the cause of said fate (the bomb itself and Kira) before it happened.

That's certainly not fate manip. Causality Manip woukd surely be able to achieve something similar considering this.
 
Good god, I hope you're joking, ignoring the fact screwing with fate would actually be fate manip by virtue of screwing with it, that's a false equivalency if I've ever seen one. And I've seen thousands.

No shit Josuke doesnt have fate manip, he didnt stop the fate manip, he made Kira retract his power that was causing the fate manip. I wnat you to think of an actual example that isnt dishonest, leaves out context, and isnt even similar to the things in question that are being discussed, because your example actually has zero bearing for the topic at hand.

Plus that doesnt even fit the argument for GER, if that's what you think then no shit you disagree, you dont even know what the actual topic is in the first place.
 
I did, I'm thinking on it. I'm unsure, I'll have to look into things to see if it viable.
 
Although under no circumstance is using the anime viable. But if youre talking about Diavolo's time erase destroying matter, that's ine the manga too. In fact it's shown off way better n the manga.
 
"Under no circumstance is using the anime viable"

What? It's the official anime of part 5, how is it not "viable"?

Define viable.

Edit: This is hurting my brain.
 
Not sure what are you going on about now all of a sudden. Josuke does, indirectly, stop fate by stopping the cause. At no point does GER alter fate directly either, he stops the causes that would bring about said fate. If you decide to interpret Diavolo looking to mean his future sight is retroactive or such, that's on you but you have literally no proof. Diavolo has never seen anyone even being able to interact in his erased time with him, much less rewind it like GER did. All I see is Diavolo checking again because he's desperate and confused, and doesn't know what's happening or how. If things aren't going the way his prediction told him like it always does, isn't it just common sense to check if there's something wrong somewhere? It would be even more unnatural for Diavolo not to check the future once again when things went completely different since he relies on it a lot.

But as I said, GER at no point ***** up with Fate. If Diavolo could actually pull off his erase and arrive at the time he is seeing with Epithet, Fate would continue as it should have, just as Josuke would have exploded no matter what when the time he first exploded in the first iteration of the world came. There's no need to RtZ if Fate could be changed and what Diavolo sees actually averfed. If you say I don't understand the conversation, make a better effort to explain how. You are only jumping at me with that excuse now when I am saying nothing different from before. Pretty bold of you to call me dishonest without saying how or why.
 
The forecasts that Diavolo sees are explicitly stated to be "realities", realities where Diavolo has the upper hand. GER negates this with RtZ, so wouldn't that count as Resistance to Reality Manipulation instead of Resistance to Precog? (Since resistance to precog makes zero sense). And yes, I'm implying that Diavolo has Limited Reality Manipulation via Epitaph due to forecasting realities where Diavolo wins, and GER has Resistance to Limited Reality Manipulation via RtZ.

Edit: GER's endless death loop also technically counts as reality manipulation to some degree.
 
It would be more reasonable to say "GER altered Diavolo's forecasted reality" (Which is, again, stated in the Manga) than "GER altered Diavolo's forecasted fate"

Heck, let's just give everyone with precog fatehax. This means Alakazam gets fatehax, Sasuke gets fatehax,

Everyone gets free fatehax!

Edit: God, my brain. Araki, you've created an abomination. Reee.
 
@Quibster

The way he alters reality is literally not a power. Let's take Adlet Mayer and tell him "Diavolo's time stop will start in 10 seconds and in that reality you lose because you start by moving forward". He now knows his fate, so he'll change it by moving to the side instead. GER does something similar but he sees his own fate first, then returns, then just alters fate by making a different decision.

Normal humans can acomplish this, it's not resistance to fate hax, nor resistance to precog. The best this is gonna acomplish is give the wrong idea about the ability and make people think he has genuine resistance, worst comes to worst people may lead to wank like "guy uses fate hax to force GER's movements", "no but ger resists" kind of deal.
 
>Not sure what are you going on about now all of a sudden. Josuke does, indirectly, stop fate by stopping the cause. At no point does GER alter fate directly either, he stops the causes that would bring about said fate. If you decide to interpret Diavolo looking to mean his future sight is retroactive or such, that's on you but you have literally no proof. Diavolo has never seen anyone even being able to interact in his erased time with him, much less rewind it like GER did. All I see is Diavolo checking again because he's desperate and confused, and doesn't know what's happening or how. If things aren't going the way his prediction told him like it always does, isn't it just common sense to check if there's something wrong somewhere? It would be even more unnatural for Diavolo not to check the future once again when things went completely different since he relies on it a lot.

What I'm on about is that bringing up Josuke stopping BTD as a example of screwing with fate is actually stupid, astoundingly so. Just dont. It isnt even an argument. Like no ******* shit stopping someone else from screwing fate would stop your fate from being screwed with. That isnt what is happening here, your josuke example is a false example and a downright awful one at that. And I aint talking about giving GER fate manipulation for that, either read the thread or dont post.

I guess I'm going to have to repeat myself because you didnt pay attention the first time. Diavolo looking again isnt why I assume it's retroactive, dont strawman pal, it's because 1.The second time he looks is actually prior to the first time looking chronologically, his first time looking within time erased never actually occured. 2. It looks at what is happening in the future, if Diavolo was getting beat to shit in the future itd show that, if Diavolo was punching through Giorno, itd show that, why? Becaue it shows what is happening, not what should happen. and 3. Diavolohimself says oh shit this wasnt shown, then explicitly implies that as such, Epitaph shpuld now have a different forecast. Youd have a point on the last part if the dialouge, how it actually functions and even the fact it wouldnt have to work retroactively becaise the first time never happened, contradict your claim/.

>But as I said, GER at no point ***** up with Fate. If Diavolo could actually pull off his erase and arrive at the time he is seeing with Epithet, Fate would continue as it should have, just as Josuke would have exploded no matter what when the time he first exploded in the first iteration of the world came. There's no need to RtZ if Fate could be changed and what Diavolo sees actually averfed. If you say I don't understand the conversation, make a better effort to explain how. You are only jumping at me with that excuse now when I am saying nothing different from before

You can believe that if you want, but him making Diavolo fated to die in different deaths forever sure looks like fate manip to me. Once again with the hilarious different circumtstanial example? Stop using an extremely dishonest example as a counterpoint. Josuke making Kira redact BTD making it no longer fated to happen int even remotely the same. >there's no need to RTZ if fate could be changed. That's a bold assumption, seeing as I can think of many reasons to do so, not withstanding the fact that he could have both. And the fact he was trying to prove a point that his actions are in vain and will never hold any meaning if they're borb from evil and superficial intentions. Im not going to expain the conversation to someone who clearly didnt read the last what? 10 posts? Because nobody was talking about what you're talking about for awhile now. Yeah no shit, the fact you arent saying anything different from before is how I know you dont understand whats being talked about.

Quib, I agree on one part, if Diavolo states that (he actually does so you get a pass) then he does in fact look at realities, but he also explicitly looks at the future, it's stated numerous times in metalica and even a few other times throughout, and your proposal doesnt contradict with mine, although it does with OP's a bit, but that's on OP. But I'm not even trying to give GER fate hax via screwing with Diavolo' Epitaph. Also Ive tried to post this 7 times since like yesterday evening, wiki please stop bullying me. Anime aint viable because it can contradict canon. It's only viable if it potrays the exact same thing with zero differences. Otherwise we'd be sitting at Tier 7 JoJo and shit.

Phoenix, that's litterally not what he's trying to say, except on giving him reality resistance due to epitaph, I disagree with him on that part. That does seem like to much of a stretch even if that's apart of how Epitaph functions. As for resistance to fate hax? He'd have that anyway, like, regardless of what Diavolo has. Giorno is set free. Not to menion you cleary dont how fate works in JoJo, it doesnt matter if you know it's going to happen, and even if you know full well what you're going to do so you do the opposite, what you're fated to do will still happen 100% guranteed no matter what precaution you take. That has been established as far back as Part 3, let alone Part 5 and 6. Dont try and form a rebuttal using straight up false analogies, because youve already lost any validity you coulve had by doing so. But then again going off most of your posts, you seem misinformed from the get go. Your entire post basically is a load of bullshit because nothing actually works how you think it works, and anybdy who's read it knows that. Which makes me think you havent even read it, so why are you debating something you arent even well informed on?
 
Quibster said:
Jesus, full-on keyboard warrior here.
Click to expand...
Responding to three different people. Of course it'd be lengthy, of which a quarter of that is me quoting. Or would you prfer I say no, you're wriong, and give no explanation as to why?

And what? Im not the person who was bring up Josuke, someone else was, I was saying why bringing up Josuke was wrong.
 
Eficiente seems to make sense to me above, but I have only had time to read certain parts of the thread.
 
Responding to three different people. Of course it'd be lengthy, of which a quarter of that is me quoting. Or would you prfer I say no, you're wriong, and give no explanation as to why?

No. I'm implying that it wasn't right of you to call someone's post "basically a load of bullshit". It's disrespectful, rude, and immature.
 
It was rude and I am aware it was, but I'm also not going to coddle. It was, and as such I said so, especially as I've already said why it shouldnt be used. Having to reiterate myself again, for the exact same thing, of coure after the first time I'm going to call it what is. An awful argument.
 
Clearly not, nobody is in agreement over anything. Ignoring Pheonix because I can tell he hasnt actually read the source material. It's split.
 
Your points are astrocious, no offense. Your example isnt even possible given how Fate works in jojo.
 
Chariot190 said:
Your points are astrocious, no offense. Your example isnt even possible given how Fate works in jojo.
Click to expand...
Your choice to disagree. But about the "even if you know fate you can't change it", i mean Diavolo himself goes like "i will see everyone's fate and move accordingly to avoid the vision given to me by epitah if it's a bad one" so like....
 
Disagree? This isnt a matter of opinion, it's a matter of fact.

Except he cant, he himself says the visions unavoidable. And he can only avoid it, even if he knows it's coming, is to delete the fact it happened, otherwise he cant do shit as shown and stated by himself in Metallica. Then we got Thoth, Rolling Stones, MIH, etc all saying youre wrong too.

Not only is everything in the source contradicting your claim outright, your example you just gave lacks the context of how he avoids it. Without erasing time he cant avoid it even if he knows it's coming.
 
I have to unsubscribe to this thread due to time constraints. You can send me a message if you need my help later.
 
That's wrong, there isnt no intepretation in this scenario. If it's stated and shown numerous times, there aint no interpretation. How Pheonix thinks fate works in jojo is wrong, not only because his example leaves out context and the fact the character he's quoting says otherwise, but numerous other examples exist, including explicit statements, that say the exact of opposite of what he thinks.

There's nothing dubious, uncertain or even confusing about this and it says so throughout multiple parts. It's fact, just as muvh of a fact that Dio can stop time or Killer makes things explode. There cant be a different intepretion in this case, and if there is it's only due to a lack of knowledge on the subject, but then again I cant understand how you can misintepret detailed explanation given by Pucci or the numerous other statement that say how it works straight up. Hell there's even an epilouge right after GER that shows you cant change fate. So even if you only read part 5 (which is an issue in and of itself if youre trying to discuss something that had been established since part 1) you'd still know that huh, you cant just change fate, even if you know it's gonna happen.
 
TriforcePower1 said:
GER reverted to zero this debate and it's now fated to loop eternally.
Click to expand...
As for you, it's your thread. Yet I'm doing most of the debating.

This would be were I put an angery emoji in jest if i was on mobile.
 
That's fair, but still, a bit of support would be nice. Then again, I only post to respond, im not actually gonna post unless made to post.
 
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