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GER Upgrades
- Thread starter TriforcePower1
- Start date
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Bump
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Fate Manipulation is fine, but I disagree with resistance - GER changed the future through hax, preventing Diavolo from reaching the destined future he saw with Epitaph.
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While true, you'd think Epitaph would stop showing him the same result even after GER did his hax.
You'd think it'd show the new future that GER created via his manip and not the old future as Epitaph litterally shows what's happening in the future.
You'd think it'd show the new future that GER created via his manip and not the old future as Epitaph litterally shows what's happening in the future.
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Epitaph doesn't show what is happening in the future, it shows what is fated to happen
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It's litterally stated to show the future though in Metallica.Iapitus The Impaler said:
You aren't wrong, it does show fated actions (thanks gw and narrative undertones and thematics) but it's also explicity showing the future. It's both.
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>take the openingAntoniofer said:
Only if we can take other anime only feats like the handful of tier 7 feats that'd scale to like every character worth a damn.
Or opening feats for other characters, Purple Haze and it's giant explosion of purple haze virus would be cool as shit.
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I mean, Polnareff used the same tactic in the manga, during erased time the blood drop normally, we known that in erasure time the time is not dilated or something. Also, I would like to avoid more confusion, but considering that Diavolo is not intangible in erased time wouldn't remove the usefuoness (partially) of the power? Like, that did not stopped Mista from shotting Diavolo, and he didn't performed any dodge move.
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In the manga you don't see the blood drop, only the aftermath if I recall. Unsure, will check. Edit: Checked with Pol, you don't see it drip in erased time. Edit 2 - Awakening: Didn't show it drip in the deleted time with Giorno too.
>Diavolo isn't intangible in time erase.
wot, he most certainly is. And he did perform a dodge move, your entire latter half of that post is outright shown to be false.
>Diavolo isn't intangible in time erase.
wot, he most certainly is. And he did perform a dodge move, your entire latter half of that post is outright shown to be false.
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I mean, I certainly believe that becomes intangible (otherwise his stand doesn't do much), but people suggest he doesn't (you known, due killing Narancia, and the room, and cutting the hand), so that's why I ask.
I also recall he not dodging, he erase and the bullet continue their trajectory, but I guess I'll see the pages to comfirm.
I also recall he not dodging, he erase and the bullet continue their trajectory, but I guess I'll see the pages to comfirm.
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He becomes intang (Aerosmith bullets phased through him) but he can still interact with others within erased time (fortune teller with the hand swap, punched a hole in the elevator, walked in front of Bruno's direct line of sight, cut trash's hand off and escaped with trish, and spoilers).
He can do both, selective intangibilty in time erase or something I guess, idk, fact is both are true, both are made extremely clear.
Oh, no he does use time erase there, I thought you meant at the end when Mista unloads his gun and he moves his head to the side.
He can do both, selective intangibilty in time erase or something I guess, idk, fact is both are true, both are made extremely clear.
Oh, no he does use time erase there, I thought you meant at the end when Mista unloads his gun and he moves his head to the side.
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Can we please go back on topic?
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I agree with the resistance to precognition (Epitaph still showed the result even after GER did his reset, it if changed his fate/future Epitaph should of showed it but it didn't, it showed the same forecast even after GER was done doing his hax and even while he was pummeling Diavolo. If it was changed it shouldve been shown changed on Epitaph, the fact it didnt is reason enough to think GER isn't bound to it's forecasts. It makes sense thematically too as Giorno is no longer a "sleeping slave"), the issue is what type of precognition. Is it fate based? Future? Both? Neither and something different? Who knows, he has something the issue is defining "what" is.
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All right. As I said (I believe it was in this thread), one can't resist precognition as its an ability that do not affect anyone, it just a way to obtain information. Only way to "resist" it either: altering the information (basically misleading the user, and giving false information), changing the source of the information or the event in some way (to the point that the information becomes useless) or certain levels of acausality (can't read the destiny of someone that isn't supposed to have one); in the case its the second case, as GER manipulate causality.
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You're not wrong, but you're also not right.
Epitaph was still showing the forecast even after GER did his magic, Epitaph should of changed but it didn't and still showed it even up to the last second. That the critical point here, if Epitaph wasn't shown to still have the same forecast I'd agree, in fact I'd wonder why anyone could jump to such a conclusion but it does, and that's why your reasoning isn't entirely sound.
GER probably has acausality then alongside his manip if you want to think of it like that.
Epitaph was still showing the forecast even after GER did his magic, Epitaph should of changed but it didn't and still showed it even up to the last second. That the critical point here, if Epitaph wasn't shown to still have the same forecast I'd agree, in fact I'd wonder why anyone could jump to such a conclusion but it does, and that's why your reasoning isn't entirely sound.
GER probably has acausality then alongside his manip if you want to think of it like that.
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Given everything we know yeah it probably is acausality.
Specifically Limited Type 2.
Type 2: Temporal Singularity: Characters with this type of Acausality do not exist in either the past or the future, only the present. This means they cannot be affected by changes to the past, while also making them resistant to Precognition that works by viewing the future, as they do not exist within it, and Fate Manipulation, for the same reason. In essence, they are able to choose their own fates, but they remain just as vulnerable at the point in time in which they do exist.
Which not only describes what happened but also describes no longer being a sleeping slave, of which Giorno no longer was in that moment.
Highlighted points to be specific.
Specifically Limited Type 2.
Type 2: Temporal Singularity: Characters with this type of Acausality do not exist in either the past or the future, only the present. This means they cannot be affected by changes to the past, while also making them resistant to Precognition that works by viewing the future, as they do not exist within it, and Fate Manipulation, for the same reason. In essence, they are able to choose their own fates, but they remain just as vulnerable at the point in time in which they do exist.
Which not only describes what happened but also describes no longer being a sleeping slave, of which Giorno no longer was in that moment.
Highlighted points to be specific.
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You have to prove he doesn't exist in the past nor future at all. If anyone remembers or knows who he is he doesn't get type 2.
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One can obtain Acausality my manipulation its own cause and effect (more like negating it), so son't think he qualify as having Acausality.
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He isn't manipulating anything in that scene, he did rtz and Epitaph was still nah bro you got this. Worst case scenario he gets a likely in front of whatever it is due to uncertainity on both sides but saying nah dude he maniped c&e despite the fact that he did so and Epitaph was still showin Giorno dying after the effect and not showing the new future is why simply going he did some manip hax is sus. Epitaph going by how we're told it functions should by all means show whatever new future comes into existence. It didn't, it was like nah you going to win. Worst case scenario, chalk it up to him overcoming the chains of fate and being able to defy and overcome fate that screwed over Epitaph's fated predictions.
Sigurd, he definitly doesn't have full on acausulity going by feats, that's why I said limited. Only the bolden lines. Because it's the closest thing I can think of that describes what happened and Giorno's nature as a woken slave is litterally what the second bolden line is.
Alt, no, Diavolo is still alive, and Trish still senses him even after a few deaths, she can sense him because he never truly dies, he's stuck in a eternal loop.
Sigurd, he definitly doesn't have full on acausulity going by feats, that's why I said limited. Only the bolden lines. Because it's the closest thing I can think of that describes what happened and Giorno's nature as a woken slave is litterally what the second bolden line is.
Alt, no, Diavolo is still alive, and Trish still senses him even after a few deaths, she can sense him because he never truly dies, he's stuck in a eternal loop.
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Don't matter, those 2 things u highlighted can apply to ever type but 1. Either he exist in the past and future and gets whatever resistance he has or he doesn't exist in the past nor future and gets type 2.
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But, I said Limited Type 2? I didnt mention any other type?
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The point of type 2 is what I've been telling are the requirements. The things you highlighted can apply to any of the other types except type 1.
Exist in future and past = don't get it.
Doesn't exist in neither = gets it.
Exist in future and past = don't get it.
Doesn't exist in neither = gets it.
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Hence the bolded limited.
But if you think he doesn't get it, then do tell what you think he has. Because worst case scenario it's resistance to fate and futuresight. Which i'd chalk up to being woke.
But if you think he doesn't get it, then do tell what you think he has. Because worst case scenario it's resistance to fate and futuresight. Which i'd chalk up to being woke.
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That's it just resistances. You can resist those things and not be acausal.
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I know, but according to antonio you litterally cant, So here we are.
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He's resetting the deaths to zero so they never actually happen. But I mean via technicality it happened at least once. Trish wouldnt sense tha though because it was made to not happen.
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Fairly sure that at least one of those things debunks GER having infinite speed, as he wasn't moving freely in Erased Time as his profile implies, just differently from Diavolo's prediction.
Besides, I believe you need a bit more than that to get infinite speed, considering how Void Standards are.
Besides, I believe you need a bit more than that to get infinite speed, considering how Void Standards are.
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Lol hilariousEficiente said:
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Shouldn't GER keep his infinite speed because he was able to talk despite the erased time not fully reverting back to zero yet?
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This is dumb. Not for being incessantly antagonistic and something a kid would say but because context just meant nothing to you. I may still disagree with the fate hax for GER said in the OP, but I was aiming that to the fate hax said right in the text above my comment.Silentpixels said:
As for the last comment, that is in Giorno's profile already, ignoring the reasons for GER to not have infinite speed.
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oh sry im new here and must have missed it :\
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Just as a question... isn't the fate thing a quality of the JoJo verse that has literally nothing to do with Diavolo since Araki inputs this belief on the existence of fate that we clearly see both in Bites The Dust and Made In Heaven?
So it wouldn't matter what GER did, Diavolo would still see the same future as predestined by Fate... but that is only if he could reach that actual moment, which is made impossible by "Return To Zero", therefore all that Eficiente was saying about ******* fate by ******* the causes of said fate, not literally twisting fate itself.
Maybe this was already covered, but I just wanted to be sure I am not half drunk and this is actually a quality of the Jojoverse.
So it wouldn't matter what GER did, Diavolo would still see the same future as predestined by Fate... but that is only if he could reach that actual moment, which is made impossible by "Return To Zero", therefore all that Eficiente was saying about ******* fate by ******* the causes of said fate, not literally twisting fate itself.
Maybe this was already covered, but I just wanted to be sure I am not half drunk and this is actually a quality of the Jojoverse.
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Okay, it just confused me a lot because from my understanding, the whole fate business is because of the structure of the Jojo world and not inherent to their powers.
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If diavolo was never going to reach the moment he saw with Epitaph then Epitaph wouldnt still be showing him killing Giorno, it'd show him not doing anything post RTZ. So yeah youre right but as I've said multiple times, its the fact epistaph kept showing it even up to when he wasbeing pummled that makes lol c&e manip as the rebuttal extremely iffy.
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