Genshin 4A downgrade...

[Breakdown]

Yeah, a rotted and corrupted Khemia creation of a Khaenriah-era Rhinedottir overpowers the Barbatos who was active during the Cataclysm - do with that info what you will /shrug

Your argument has several flaws.
1: Not every Hexenzirkel is of equal strength, Mona is even a member. Are we going to start scaling Mona above the Archons?
2: Alchemy is basically the science of mixing stuff together. Khemia is just very advanced alchemy. There is no reason that should in any way be a UES.
3: Being very good at Khemia doesn’t mean that all of Rhinedottir’s stats suddenly scale. This would be like saying that a really good nuclear physicist is City Level.
4: Every Extant Archon save Makoto was stronger than Barbatos. Durin being stronger than Barbatos at best means it’s as strong as one of them.

So, even if all of what you are saying is true, the Hexenzirkel scale above two of the archons. The scaling chain isn’t broken by this.

 

[GarrixianXD]

Do you not see the irony of saying this while also agreeing with the 4-A rating?

There's a difference between giving birth to a child and creating an entire Universe, so...

 

[Breakdown]

The world was previously nothing more than a history book.

Even after its "creation", its existence is "equivalent to the fiction of the real world", and is still compared to a dream.

And as if that weren't enough, the world still exists ONLY in the book, and not outside of it.

Alice's magic has been shown to be basically: She speaks a few words, and the thing is created.
With no mention of any kind of UES, as far as can be proven, it is just a "pocket dimension" hax.

Being that both the Simulanka and the theater space exist only within books;
there is no mention of UES or any type of energy for/in its creation;
Simulanka existence is compared to fiction and a dream (they don't exist, and this also counts for Theater, since as far as we know, they both probably use creation magic);
They do not meet any vbw criteria for scaling a "pocket dimension" to something other than just creation hax.

Clearly, the part where the "fantasy becomes more real", is just what I said, the world/reality "exists" as a "normal reality", but, ONLY inside the book, while from the outside, it would just be like a dream, something equivalent to fiction (it doesn't really exist).

Alice’s magic works on consciousness (I speak and I create), and elemental energy users were also shown to be able to change a Realm of Consciousness by letting out enough raw energy. They are equivalent, especially since the elements are abstract things in true nature. Maybe some magics are not, but these ones are.

 

[Furina003]

Okay, even discounting whether they're all relative or not (especially disagree on Barbatos being above Boreas 'undoubtedly', since Boreas gave up on the Gnosis by his own decision), the Archons being above Alice 'ideally' may be the case, but certainly not 'logically' in any way. If you recall, Rhinedottir, a member of the Hexenzirkel, literally created Durin and Barbatos HAD to get Dvalin's help to defeat it, couldn't even solo it to save his entire country. So here we have the Witches' creations outcompeting Archons already.

Now, I AM assuming here that the Witches we know about are all relative between eachother (exception of Mona), but it's a more reasonable assumption to make than others, I personally believe.

you are wrong if you equate this with the durin case, durin is a creature native to the abyss, gold only provides a body, you can read here, you forgot that mavuika even needs the xbalanque power that she got from ronova to destroy gosoythoth?

 

[Furina003]

Alice is just a witch from the Old Monstadt era, and she is the defender of Old Monstadt, while Decarabian is the god who leads Old Monstadt, which means Alice has a level below Decarabian,
Decarabian was defeated by Barbatos in a fight.

In my opinion, this is very good as a basis for scaling, at least Alice has a level below/equivalent to Archon

From here it also makes sense why Hexenzirkle challenged Barbatos to a fight, because Alice is the elder and founder of Hexenzirkle.

 

[Weaver261]

In my opinion, this is very good as a basis for scaling, at least Alice has a level below/equivalent to Archon

This justification for Archon upscaling should be dropped by now. Alice was once an adventure. We don't know how powerful she was in the past or how powerful she is when she challenged barbatos. What you are saying is like comparing a kid to an adult. Barbatos and Hexenzirkle didn't even fight. Everything can happen yet assuming they are close in power is just headcanon. If you want a better justification, Lisa once stated that Magic is the refined use of elemental energy. But those who have much pure elemental energy can solve anything without learning magic. That would apply to all archon with their gnosis.

 

[Furina003]

This justification for Archon upscaling should be dropped by now. Alice was once an adventure. We don't know how powerful she was in the past or how powerful she is when she challenged barbatos. What you are saying is like comparing a kid to an adult. Barbatos and Hexenzirkle didn't even fight. Everything can happen yet assuming they are close in power is just headcanon. If you want a better justification, Lisa once stated that Magic is the refined use of elemental energy. But those who have much pure elemental energy can solve anything without learning magic. That would apply to all archon with their gnosis.

I don't use anymore they almost fighting, but I use the hierarchy that existed in old mondstadt

 

[Voidnether]

I don't use them anymore almost fighting, but I use the hierarchy that existed in old mondstadt

That's still a bad justification though, there's no inferiority in Alice's part if the previous justification was something that's like: Alice created Golden Apple Archipelago with Barbatos and putting Alice's personality aside (you know what she does with miko back then)

 

[Furina003]

That's still a bad justification though, there's no inferiority in Alice's part if the previous justification was something that's like: Alice created Golden Apple Archipelago with Barbatos and putting Alice's personality aside (you know what she does with miko back then)

This is quite strong, because Alice is still a subordinate of Decarabian, Why do you think Alice formed Hexenzirkle first, after Hexenzirkle was formed only then did she challenge Barbatos after Old Mondstadt's defeat? why didn't she challenge barbatos alone?

 

[Dog3352]

I actually did. And you still haven't disapproved of why my line of logic is wrong.

The fact that elemental energy is something fundamental does not mean that it is necessarily used in everything, that is not even an argument (literally several Teyvat spells do not use elemental energy, in addition to things like alchemy, Adeptus Arts, among many others);
You didn't show any evidence of any kind of energy and especially elemental energy being used in creation (which is necessary for the creation of the book's world to scale into something);
The term "magic" extends to several things (there are several spells), trying to limit Theo term "magic" as if it only meant elemental energy doesn't prove anything because of that;
There is also an equivalence where it says that "the world (Simulanka) is as real as what would be fiction in the real world (like books)" + an equivalence that "the world (Simulanka) is as real as a dream" + the fact of existing only in the book and not demonstrating that it actually exists (like a game or story that is only a "reality" if you enter the "game"/"story", but that from the outside is not a reality, like SAO for example)

First scan link: https://genshin-impact.fandom.com/w... offense to being called a "witch" at all.[8]

The second scan literally says Mona is a mage and a part of Hexenzirkel. Mona uses magic every time she casts her hydro powers, just like every catalyst user.

This scan is no different from Mona's, it says literally nothing about magic, witches' magic or proves that "term 'magic' in general = elemental energy" (nor is there any way to prove such a thing in any way).

She uses magic that is elemental energy, nothing about her uses witch magic like creation magic or spells, she uses her vision in basically everything she does, this literally proves nothing about witch magic, she is basically a common vision user, even though she is a mage, with the difference that she mixes her knowledge with astrology + her vision to do something other than "pure elemental manipulation", but that is not even called some kind of magic, witch/wizard magic or something like that.

Any proof that it is still a fictional existence, other than it being based on a story plot? Despite the world itself was transformed and said to be no longer fiction.

Literally Simulanka's existence is said to be "as real as real world fiction (like stories/books)" and has its existence "compared to a dream", and the world only exists within the book.
I think this is proof of the enough, even more so when the world is declared "as real as fiction" and "compared to a dream" within the world/reality/book itself, which is the place where this world would be the most real it could be (and yet thus it is declared "as real as fiction" and "compared to a dream").

Okay uh, what is this supposed to infer?

The point is that everything points out that the room/Imaginarium Theater, Simulnaka and the book/Imaginarium Theatsr are all exactly the same thing (in addition to all apparently being created by the same type of magic), with the room/Imaginarium Theater being literally the unique in that it is not necessary to enter a book to get there, but still being possibly something that does not really exist, like the interior of the book/imaginarium Teatro and Simulnaka.

Reasons:
Simulnaka's existence is "as real as fiction" and "compared to a dream";
The room/imaginarium Theater is quickly theorized by the Traveler as "another world", just as Simulnaka is "another world" (which does not actually exist), besides the image in the window making it very obvious that we are no longer in Mondstadt;
All 3 are impossible to enter (if you don't enter the room/imaginarium theater, you don't enter the book/imaginarium theater), unless the person is invited or pulled;
All 3 are created by the same magic (it is said by Wolfy that witches have creation magic);
The room/Imaginarium Theater is described as "real fantasy" and "standing between reality and fiction", descriptions that are reminiscent of the Sumilnaka, with the Sumilnaka being something that doesn't really exist ("as real as fiction" "compared to a dream" and being a world that only exists within the book), but, within the world, it is something like a reality (a reality that even from within, still has its existence compared to fiction and a dream), basically being something that when it comes to "status of existence", is something that lies between reality and fantasy/fiction, a reality that does not truly exist, that even from within reality (from the point of view of this reality), this reality is as real as fiction or a dream.

Books, stories and fictional media aren't "fictional aspects" of the real world. The fictional world does not exist in the real world. It is merely something that man made-up for entertainment, comes in the form of media, but there is absolutely no way that fictional content is part of the world. Hence, why it is even called "fictional" in the first place. In summary, books are not fictional things, it is rather shapes of matter that have a story written into their pages. There are no fictional things in the real world, making that term itself rather make no sense.

As for it to be compared to a dream, I'm pretty sure the Traveller and Nilou, even Paimon would notice it, and even have dreamscape effects. It wasn't explicitly said it was a dream either. It's rather unlikely to be a dream. Not to mention it is mentioned to be a "real fantasy".

No one is even talking about "fictional aspects of the world", but rather literally the fiction that exists in the real world (books/stories), the statement itself talks about "fiction from the outside world", and not about the world itself/ " fictional aspects" of the world, clearly mentioning things like stories. No one is saying that there is a "fictional world" that is an aspect of the real world of Genshin, but rather what is literally fiction (stories/books). I have my doubts if you are able to interpret what is written there, no one is saying that there is a place in the real world of Genshin that is literally fictional, the world is being compared to what is fiction for the real world of Genshin (like stories, and even in a certain way a comparison with dreams).

I didn't say it's a literal dream, in fact, I know very well that it isn't, since I read Samulnika's entire mission, they are inside a book, as I've said several times.
And the point of the comparison with a dream is not that it is literally a dream, but that it is "as real as one", the question itself being about how real the Samulnika is, to which it is answered as "it is as real as what is fiction in the real world" and "as real as a dream".

I'm struggling to see that you indexed any. Provide your evidence with blue links.

The scans are the texts, they look like this:

A

 

[Dog3352]

Alice’s magic works on consciousness (I speak and I create), and elemental energy users were also shown to be able to change a Realm of Consciousness by letting out enough raw energy. They are equivalent, especially since the elements are abstract things in true nature. Maybe some magics are not, but these ones are.

First: Literally nothing is said about Alice's magic working on consciousness, other than that it would just prove my point about it not being real.
Second: No character demonstrates changing the appearance of the Realm of Consciousness with pure elemental energy, it changes according to the person's emotions/thoughts.
Third: No proof of equivalence between Alice's magic and elemental energy.
Four: What do Realms of Consciousness have to do with Alice's magic?

 

[Dog3352]

Alice is just a witch from the Old Monstadt era, and she is the defender of Old Monstadt, while Decarabian is the god who leads Old Monstadt, which means Alice has a level below Decarabian,
Decarabian was defeated by Barbatos in a fight.

In my opinion, this is very good as a basis for scaling, at least Alice has a level below/equivalent to Archon

From here it also makes sense why Hexenzirkle challenged Barbatos to a fight, because Alice is the elder and founder of Hexenzirkle.

I don't doubt that the strongest witches in the group (like M and Alice) reach the level of the gods, if I'm not mistaken, Alice even says that she could EASILY make those AMBER PLUSHIES blow up an entire mountain.

It's worth remembering that narratively, things like "destroying or cutting down mountains/islands" are things that are distributed to gods or beings almost as strong as gods, I don't think witches are at the archon level, but I believe they can be almost as strong (if not as strong as) an Average God in Power.

 

[Furina003]

I don't doubt that the strongest witches in the group (like M and Alice) reach the level of the gods, if I'm not mistaken, Alice even says that she could EASILY make those AMBER PLUSHIES blow up an entire mountain.

It's worth remembering that narratively, things like "destroying or cutting down mountains/islands" are things that are distributed to gods or beings almost as strong as gods, I don't think witches are at the archon level, but I believe they can be almost as strong (if not as strong as) an Average God in Power.

the strongest are Alice and Barbeloth because they are rivals, while M (Andersdotter) is just an ordinary human. Your statement actually proves what I said before, Alice is just Decarabian's subordinate, after Decarabian was defeated, she formed Hexenzirkle and challenged Barbatos again because she was the defender of Old Monstadt. If Alice, the strongest among the Hexenzirkle, needs an organization to challenge Barbatos again, that means Alice's own abilities are not strong enough to fight with Barbatos who has defeated Decarabian. this is done

 

[Breakdown]

First: Literally nothing is said about Alice's magic working on consciousness, other than that it would just prove my point about it not being real.
Second: No character demonstrates changing the appearance of the Realm of Consciousness with pure elemental energy, it changes according to the person's emotions/thoughts.
Third: No proof of equivalence between Alice's magic and elemental energy.
Four: What do Realms of Consciousness have to do with Alice's magic?

First, Magic coming from the mind doesn’t mean it isn’t real. what the hell is this argument? Are all subjective reality feats to be discarded now because of that?
Second, you didn’t pay attention to Ei vs Traveller when an outpouring of elemental energy from the visions bestowed on him changed the realm (Start at 7:20).
Third, yes there is. I used the word consciousness broadly to refer to the mind, but as was stated and shown all through the Inazuma quest, Elemental Energy used by a person is the embodiment of their ambition. Losing it would cause memory loss and even personality changes. Yae Miko called it ambitions in that video even.
Fourth, realms of consciousness are literal places of the mind which are affected by Elemental energy, which is the embodiment of a person’s mind in every single way. The things in them are thus equivalent.

 

[Dog3352]

the strongest are Alice and Barbeloth because they are rivals, while M (Andersdotter) is just an ordinary human. Your statement actually proves what I said before, Alice is just Decarabian's subordinate, after Decarabian was defeated, she formed Hexenzirkle and challenged Barbatos again because she was the defender of Old Monstadt. If Alice, the strongest among the Hexenzirkle, needs an organization to challenge Barbatos again, that means Alice's own abilities are not strong enough to fight with Barbatos who has defeated Decarabian. this is done

Yes, that's why I said "the strongest witches", among Gods that fight, probably the weakest one that I remember now is Beisht, I believe that Alice could defeat Beisht alone with some ease.

 

[Dog3352]

First, Magic coming from the mind doesn’t mean it isn’t real. what the hell is this argument? Are all subjective reality feats to be discarded now because of that?

The only "magic from the mind" is the Realm of Consciousness, and it doesn't scale to creation, so you would just be proving my point.

Second, you didn’t pay attention to Ei vs Traveller when an outpouring of elemental energy from the visions bestowed on him changed the realm (Start at 7:20).

In addition to not having complete proof that she actually infused elemental energy, given that she can change her Realm at will with just her mind, the only thing that is happening differently is the lightning, which Raiden can invoke even in real life, it's not a change in the structure of the Realm or anything like that, just invoking lightning in the Realm, something Ei can also do in real life.

Third, yes there is. I used the word consciousness broadly to refer to the mind, but as was stated and shown all through the Inazuma quest, Elemental Energy used by a person is the embodiment of their ambition. Losing it would cause memory loss and even personality changes. Yae Miko called it ambitions in that video even.

Bruh, Yae Miko is talking about losing visions, not about elemental energy, since vision can sometimes even be an extension of our will, losing a vision can have certain effects on the person depending on the person, but it depends on the person, one example is that the people who were making a revolution against Raiden were not experiencing these effects that losing their vision can have (such as loss of determination, will or/and desires).

Fourth, realms of consciousness are literal places of the mind which are affected by Elemental energy, which is the embodiment of a person’s mind in every single way. The things in them are thus equivalent.

This doesn't really answer the question about what is the relationship between Alice's magic and the Realm of Consciousness, nothing there is in someone's mind, it is literally inside a book.
The only effect we see in Raiden's Realm of Consciousness that is probably happening due to elemental energy is lightning, which would just be her using electro, being that she can invoke lightning even in real life, so her invocation does not mean an "alteration in the Realm of Consciousness", just the use of electro to invoke lightning in the area.
Elemental energy is not a personification of people's minds, vision is the closest thing to it, and the effects are even more likely to not happen.

 

[DivinumAeterna]

Alice is just a witch from the Old Monstadt era, and she is the defender of Old Monstadt, while Decarabian is the god who leads Old Monstadt, which means Alice has a level below Decarabian,
Decarabian was defeated by Barbatos in a fight.

In my opinion, this is very good as a basis for scaling, at least Alice has a level below/equivalent to Archon

From here it also makes sense why Hexenzirkle challenged Barbatos to a fight, because Alice is the elder and founder of Hexenzirkle.

Not sure why you're still dismissing the fact that Barbatos didn't solo Decarabian by any stretch of the imagination (which wouldn't work to justify the scale you're trying to do either way, I suppose), or the fact that Alice's subordination to Decarabian doesn't matter - there's plenty of scenarios in fiction where a more powerful force serves a weaker yet more influential one out of other motives (Neuvilette is literally below Furina in the Fontaine hierarchy, and by your logic Furina should be stronger?). And AFAIK there was never an indication that Old Mondstadt hierarchy is based strictly on power...

Sorry but you'll just need to have better reasoning as to why Archons > Hexenzirkel Witches.

In my view, if all the Hexenzirkel Witches do with their magic is create fake vr worlds that cannot affect the real physical world of Teyvat, then Imaginarium and Simulanka still have a place to exist while also making the Archons be stronger than the Hexenzirkel, but still at Continental level.

But if the Hexenzirkel CAN actually create literal solar systems in an isolated pocket dimension just by uttering a few words into a sheet of paper, then there is literally no contest that the Hexenzirkel is orders of magnitudes more powerful than Archons - and all the reasonings about "outranking Alice" serving as chainscale uplifts are not applicable because quite frankly they are weird.

 

[Furina003]

Not sure why you're still dismissing the fact that Barbatos didn't solo Decarabian by any stretch of the imagination (which wouldn't work to justify the scale you're trying to do either way, I suppose), or the fact that Alice's subordination to Decarabian doesn't matter - there's plenty of scenarios in fiction where a more powerful force serves a weaker yet more influential one out of other motives (Neuvilette is literally below Furina in the Fontaine hierarchy, and by your logic Furina should be stronger?). And AFAIK there was never an indication that Old Mondstadt hierarchy is based strictly on power...

Sorry but you'll just need to have better reasoning as to why Archons > Hexenzirkel Witches.

In my view, if all the Hexenzirkel Witches do with their magic is create fake vr worlds that cannot affect the real physical world of Teyvat, then Imaginarium and Simulanka still have a place to exist while also making the Archons be stronger than the Hexenzirkel, but still at Continental level.

But if the Hexenzirkel CAN actually create literal solar systems in an isolated pocket dimension just by uttering a few words into a sheet of paper, then there is literally no contest that the Hexenzirkel is orders of magnitudes more powerful than Archons - and all the reasonings about "outranking Alice" serving as chainscale uplifts are not applicable because quite frankly they are weird.

bro, they are indeed war, but the one who fights and defeats decarabian is still barbatos, didn't you read the book I gave you before? you can read here
you equate Alice's case with Furina is a mistake, Furina is just the human form of Focalors, because the real leader Fontaine is Focalors you should compare her with focalors, Focalor with authority > Neuvillette before getting authority. after the focalors died, it was the neuvillitte who occupied the top of the hierarchy in fontaine.

 

[Weaver261]

But if the Hexenzirkel CAN actually create literal solar systems in an isolated pocket dimension just by uttering a few words into a sheet of paper, then there is literally no contest that the Hexenzirkel is orders of magnitudes more powerful than Archons - and all the reasonings about "outranking Alice" serving as chainscale uplifts are not applicable because quite frankly they are weird.

Creating Solar Systems is just so iffy. Octavia once traveled into the cosmo and she saw the stars and cosmo dying. So, she came back and she said she don't know how much time is left.

"The entire cosmos is going to die soon. Things peaked but not long ago, and are about to go south very fast." Octavia was sitting in a yard swathed in flowing sunlight, pouring tea into the teacups she and the little witch loved most.
The little witch pulled a chair up and sat in it. "You returned so suddenly," she said, "we didn't even prepare a chair for you. You're probably sitting in the old witch's chair now."
"Many stars across the cosmos have gone out. I do not know how much time is left," Octavia said, "so I wanted to come back to see you."

Hexenzirkel mages already knew about the universe is ending and they even know they will die. If they can create solar systems so easily by speaking, they could have solved the problem. So, the starry sky in imaginarium is just background display imo.

even if the apocalypse that a certain astrologer witch worried about comes, even if all the long-lived witches die

 

[DivinumAeterna]

bro, they are indeed interested, but those who fight and give in are still barbatos, didn't you read the book I gave you before? you can read here
you equate Alice's case with Furina is a mistake, Furina is just the human form of Focalors, because the real leader Fontaine is Focalors you should compare her with focalors, Focalor with authority > Neuvillette before getting authority. after the focalors died, it was the neuvillitte who occupied the top of the hierarchy in fontaine.

I don't need to remind you that in the eyes of the people Furina WAS Focalors for the longest time, the political hierarchy still applies and the argument that Furina isn't Focalors is moot for what we're talking about. It doesn't matter that Neuvilette got an upgrade later, because we're working with specific timeframes rather than the whole of it. Also, your link doesn't work.

I'll say it again - scaling Decarabian above Alice, and then Barbatos above Alice because he's above Deca is just ridiculous and has way too many holes. Please find better arguments.

 

[Furina003]

I don't need to remind you that in the eyes of the people Furina WAS Focalors for the longest time, the political hierarchy still applies and the argument that Furina isn't Focalors is moot for what we're talking about. It doesn't matter that Neuvilette got an upgrade later, because we're working with specific timeframes rather than the whole of it. Also, your link doesn't work.

I'll say it again - scaling Decarabian above Alice, and then Barbatos above Alice because he's above Deca is just ridiculous. Please find better arguments.

ugh, she's just a false god, because the real gods are the focalors. Decarabian is a god. You compare it to Furina. does not make sense

 

[DivinumAeterna]

ugh, she's just a false god, because the real gods are the focalors. Decarabian is a god. You compare it to Furina. does not make sense

The entire point is that it doesn't make sense because it's based strictly on hierarchy rather than actual power.

Also there are arguments to be made that pre-powerup Neuvilette is rival to Focalors anyway (we don't know) and clearly Focalors couldn't use the Sovereign's power on her own to save Fontaine, so she's also not automatically stronger just because she had a portion of the water dragon's authority

 

[Weaver261]

ugh, she's just a false god, because the real gods are the focalors. Decarabian is a god. You compare it to Furina. does not make sense

Being a real god or not doesn't matter. His argument was about how political hierarchy has nothing to do with individual's power. Strong people can serve people weaker than them. It's a simple anology. Why don't you get it?

 

[Furina003]

The entire point is that it doesn't make sense because it's based strictly on hierarchy rather than actual power.

everything I give you is related, don't you understand what I'm saying?

Alice is Decarabian's subordinate. Decarabian was defeated by Barbatos.

and Alice formed a hexenzirkle, after the hexenzirkle was formed, they challenged Barbatos again. I have something to ask you, if Alice is stronger than Barbatos, why did Decarabian lose?

and if alice is stronger than barbatos, why did she bring hexenzirkle to challenge barbatos again? Shouldn't he be able to defeat Barbatos alone? From this alone we can conclude that Alice is not stronger than Barbatos.

Also there are arguments to be made that pre-powerup Neuvilette is rival to Focalors anyway (we don't know) and clearly Focalors couldn't use the Sovereign's power on her own to save Fontaine, so she's also not automatically stronger just because she had a portion of the water dragon's authority

bro, Fokalor's goal is to let Fontaine escape punishment, if Fokalor uses the Primordial Sea again the punishment will continue, that's why he uses Neuvillette which is not bound by Celestia's laws.

 

[DivinumAeterna]

everything I give you is related, don't you understand what I'm saying?

Alice is Decarabian's subordinate. Decarabian was defeated by Barbatos.

and Alice formed a hexenzirkle, after the hexenzirkle was formed, they challenged Barbatos again. I have something to ask you, if Alice is stronger than Barbatos, why did Decarabian lose?

and if alice is stronger than barbatos, why did she bring hexenzirkle to challenge barbatos again? Shouldn't he be able to defeat Barbatos alone? From this alone we can conclude that Alice is not stronger than Barbatos.

Alice being stronger than Barbatos has no bearing on Barbatos and Co's victory over Decarabian... you don't know if she was actually loyal nor if she participated in Old Mondstadt's defense against the rebellion. Not to mention that Alice literally blew up the ruins of Old Mondstadt even more in the future, indicating she doesn't respect Decarabian's legacy and thus can be inferred to have disliked Deca. As for the second part - do you have sauce about it being specifically Alice challenging Barbatos directly and not the challenge being issued by someone else from the name of the group? Besides, the nature of the challenge could've been rooted in something more than 'lets just kill Barbatos', because if that was the case then Venti wouldn't be able to talk-no-jutsu them down.

 

[Weaver261]

Alice is Decarabian's subordinate. Decarabian was defeated by Barbatos.

Defender Of Mondstad = Decarabian's subordinate????? She is an adventurer. Not some knight under decarabian. She can protect the city without serving the archon.

 

[Furina003]

Defender Of Mondstad = Decarabian's subordinate????? She is an adventurer. Not some knight under decarabian. She can protect the city without serving the archon.

bro, mondo defenders are clearly under decarabian's leadership, Alice goes on adventures after she leaves Mondo

 

[Furina003]

I've explained everything to you, if you haven't accepted it, its okay, I've told you everything. and this is my final comment, I will leave all decisions to the staff. If it needs to be removed, please do so.

because if this continues it will become an endless debate

Alice being stronger than Barbatos has no bearing on Barbatos and Co's victory over Decarabian... you don't know if she was actually loyal nor if she participated in Old Mondstadt's defense against the rebellion. Not to mention that Alice literally blew up the ruins of Old Mondstadt even more in the future, indicating she doesn't respect Decarabian's legacy and thus can be inferred to have disliked Deca. As for the second part - do you have sauce about it being specifically Alice challenging Barbatos directly and not the challenge being issued by someone else from the name of the group? Besides, the nature of the challenge could've been rooted in something more than 'lets just kill Barbatos', because if that was the case then Venti wouldn't be able to talk-no-jutsu them down.

 

[Weaver261]

bro, mondo defenders are clearly under decarabian's leadership, Alice goes on adventures after she leaves Mondo

Defender title doesn't mean decarabian's subordinate necessarily. You have to prove that. Nvm that. This justification won't pass anyway since it has many logical fallacies. Try finding a better justification to scale Archons to Mages. Even mages getting 4-A is absurd since they can't even stop the cosmo from dying while they can create solar system so easily. That remind me of how Madam Ping talks about Rex Lapis moving mountains and seas is more amazing display of power than creating subspace with sun. Becuz subspace was just a mini realm. I think simulanka and imaginarium can also be mini realms. Not to even mentioned traveler literally opens the book whenever he/she play the game mode.

 

[Tyri456]

does the OP know he has to update votes of people that disagree with him too? including mods, its not like he can put just people thay agree with him lol.

 

[Robo432343]

yeah bro OP is doing vote manipulation
you can get banned for this

 

[Woomica]

i barely keep up with this crt but arguing over who scales to who and how is irrelevant here, it is a matter for another crt that will cover it better
now for IT and Simulanka:
i may find simulanka scaling weird given its functions but for me IT can be valid and the stuff in it can be real, even stars, the stars in simulanka that we pick in our hands are nothing more than tool to progress with the story within the book and using them as argument for "IT stars are fake" is ass, mind you we wouldnt even be able to see them in IT due to sheer distance and yet we see stars in IT, we in fact see planets that are way closer than stars that appear as small as star we can regurarly see in sky.
I will be neutral for now and wait for Garrixian to give input again

 

[Weaver261]

I've one question for all of you here. Why do you all assume the pocket reality inside the book is the same size as reality? We already had an example of creating mini realms in teapots using subspace creation. And both Simulanka and IT are inside the book. If both are also mini realms, will it still qualify for 4-A even if the stars are real?

 

[Woomica]

I've one question for all of you here. Why do you all assume the pocket reality inside the book is the same size as reality? We already had an example of creating mini realms in teapots using subspace creation. And both Simulanka and IT are inside the book. If both are also mini realms, will it still qualify for 4-A even if the stars are real?

Pocket Reality Manipulation is a power which revolves around manipulating and creating pocket realities. Pocket realities, in this case, refers to realms that are spatially separate from other realms (including universes) and either are of less than universal size on the inside or appear as less than universe sized objects when observed from the outside.

If i read this correctly (unlikely lol) the simulanka and IT may appear small from outside (as book) but when you enter it its vast and enormous size

 

[Weaver261]

Pocket Reality Manipulation is a power which revolves around manipulating and creating pocket realities. Pocket realities, in this case, refers to realms that are spatially separate from other realms (including universes) and either are of less than universal size on the inside or appear as less than universe sized objects when observed from the outside.

If i read this correctly (unlikely lol) the simulanka and IT may appear small from outside (as book) but when you enter it its vast and enormous size

I understand this but why give the same rating of creating a solar system in real world to this pocket reality? Subspace creation literally stated peak mountain inside the teapot is just at the length of a stalk. That's why creating a world like this is not even as amazing as moving mountains in real world

 

[Woomica]

I understand this but why give the same rating of creating a solar system in real world to this pocket reality? Subspace creation literally stated peak mountain inside the teapot is just at the length of a stalk. That's why creating a world like this is not even as amazing as moving mountains in real world

what adepti and teapot realms have to do with Simulanka and IT?
Those two are completely separate arent they?

 

[Weaver261]

what adepti and teapot realms have to do with Simulanka and IT?
Those two are completely separate arent they?

Yeah but we already had an example of creating something like this. Simulanka and IT are also inside book just as subspace is inside teapot. My question is why everyone is proceeding with the assumption of Simulanka and IT being real and not just a mini realm that requires not much efforts (i mean she can just create by saying words)

 

[Woomica]

Yeah but we already had an example of creating something like this. Simulanka and IT are also inside book just as subspace is inside teapot. My question is why everyone is proceeding with the assumption of Simulanka and IT being just a mini realm that requires not much efforts (i mean she can just create by saying words)

im not understand? are you saying IT and Sim should work the same as adeptus realms and teapot?
also where is creating realms with words coming from?

 

[BleedingPeach]

Disagree FRA.

 

[DivinumAeterna]

does the OP know he has to update votes of people that disagree with him too? including mods, its not like he can put just people thay agree with him lol.

yeah bro OP is doing vote manipulation
you can get banned for this

He didn't update any new votes at all since the thread's early inception, not just ignoring negatives.