Genshin 4A downgrade...

[Kisaragi_Megumi]

If you're coming back to this, mind if I summarise the counterarguments towards the OP? A lot of the content doesn't exactly have much relevance to the source of the scaling of Tier 4, nor was it properly explained in the initial upgrade thread either.

I advocate a summary for the downgrade as well, since I have asked the staffs to evaluate this but none had comes which I believe they prolly don't know where to start, so with the summary of the downgrade and summary of the counterarguments from you which could help the staffs to understand, I hope we can make the CRT concluded soon

@Dog3352 Would you like to make the summary of the downgrade here?

 

[Dog3352]

I advocate a summary for the downgrade as well, since I have asked the staffs to evaluate this but none had comes which I believe they prolly don't know where to start, so with the summary of the downgrade and summary of the counterarguments from you which could help the staffs to understand, I hope we can make the CRT concluded soon

@Dog3352 Would you like to make the summary of the downgrade here?

I don't think there's much to say, in the end, what matters is the fact that the argument of "term 'magic' in general = manipulation/use of elemental energy" is the only thing that supports the scale, which as I specifically described in the OP, this is not the case, in addition to there being no statement/evidence of the use of Elemental Energy or any type of UES in the creation magic used by the witches, I even put the scans directly saying what the creation magic is that the witches use to create the worlds.

And Simulanaka's point really matters, as it is what makes it clear what the witches' creation magic is.

All 3 witches created the Simulnaka;
All 3 witches have creation magic;
All 3 witches have the ability to make the "fantasy truth" become a "true fantasy" with their magic;
Woofy says that the room (and obviously this is also the case with IT) was created by magic;
The witch who created the Imaginarium Theater is part of the Hexenzirkel, as evidenced by Woofy's description that mentions Nicole as one of Madame Mage's friends;
Woofy also says that each of them has a different type of magic, so none of them have completely equal abilities;
Why is it important that everyone has different abilities? Simple, Woofy describes Madame Mage as a witch who is capable of using hydromancy, the only person capable of using hydromancy among the witches of Hexenzirkel is Berbeloth, so it's pretty obvious that Berbeloth is Madame Mage, hydromancy, is a witch, it is part of Hexenzirkel, and has creation magic;
Simulnaka and Imaginarium Theather are created using witches' creation magic, and are realities within books (which also connects to the "true fantasy), making it obvious that it is the same creation magic.

Since the magic used to create the Simulnaka is the same one used to create the IT, the statements about Simulnaka also apply to the IT, in addition to the lines about magic.

Witches' creation magic is literally "create what I say/speak and create", it is even said that the world is made of words, so it is a magic/spell that gives the ability to create a pocket dimension with words, basically a creation hax of pocket dimension that has no evidence/statement of using elemental energy or any kind of UES (or something that makes creation scale to anything other than just creation).

There is also the fact that when the Traveler goes to fight, the theater changes to the appearance of the "world" (one of the worlds is the one with the "starry sky"), which points out that the locations are not real, but just a change of scenery/appearance/"environment" of the Imaginarium Theater, one thing that proves this is Woofy's words, which point out that magic "is only real if you believe in it" and that "the environment changes when you believe and are in the magic ring".

The most obvious problem here that I'm talking about from the beginning is the fact that there is clearly no use of UES in the creation of the "dimension", and there is not a single piece of evidence that proves that the witches' creation magic uses Elemental Energy ( UES de Genshin), which is literally the main/essential point you need to scale the creation feat for statistics.

And the "proof" that witch creation magic uses UES definitely doesn't prove anything, the point of the counterargument is that "Elemental Energy (UES) exists all over the world and is used in everything, therefore witch creation magic witches' creation also uses Elemental Energy", besides not everything in Genshin using magic (like the ones I mentioned/shown in the OP), this is nothing more than Association fallacy, and besides there being things in Genshin that don't use Elemental Energy, There is no evidence that witches' creation magic uses Elemental Energy.

 

[Giannysmag]

If you're coming back to this, mind if I summarise the counterarguments towards the OP? A lot of the content doesn't exactly have much relevance to the source of the scaling of Tier 4, nor was it properly explained in the initial upgrade thread either.

We should get DDM to come back to this then too since they missed like 80% of the thread

 

[Rayfire]

I agree with the downgrades overall.

 

[Kisaragi_Megumi]

We should get DDM to come back to this then too since they missed like 80% of the thread

I already did a couple days ago, but it seems he's not coming back to this thread yet

 

[Lloydblitzed]

Been a while since I last commented here...why does every tier 4 threads have to be 8 pages+ long?

 

[Valxxroyz]

Ikr, it should be only Archons level to deserve the 4-A such as Dragon Sovereign, Top 3 Harbingers, Hexenzirkel, Skirk and Narwhal for now because their profile is there.
Anyone like Adeptus level such as Xiao, Shenhe, Cyno and other is only 6-B at max, as well as Harbingers below top 3 like Scara and Arlecchino.

I dont agree w/u, we still need to prove the “Starry Sky” is the actual “Starry Sky” just like HSR case's. And yeah i didnt agree with 4-A Thread, still debatable.

 

[InfinityTurtleHD]

I dont agree w/u, we still need to prove the “Starry Sky” is the actual “Starry Sky” just like HSR case's. And yeah i didnt agree with 4-A Thread, still debatable.

That and the fact characters who are normally 7-A are immediately upgraded to 4-A makes no sense, such as Shenhe, Cyno and Alhaitham. They only got that tier just for keeping up with other 4-A characters, which is clear PIS, considering it's a big outlier and is not consistent with their own feats. It's like Amber punching Capitano and getting 4-A because of it.

The sky in Teyvat was proven to be a fake, meaning there's little to no evidence to suggest that Simulanka's sky is real itself and it may just be a visual projection more powerful than the Adepti Abodes, given Simulanka has a city. But like what Dog3352 said, the world is imaginary, and it's too vague to imply the stars are real.

 

[Weaver261]

The sky in Teyvat was proven to be a fake, meaning there's little to no evidence to suggest that Simulanka's sky is real itself

It's already stated by Mona that Simulanka is based on Teyvat.

Mona: I did a quick scry when I came into this world, and when I saw the stars' reflections, I was at a loss for words... It looks like fate in Simulanka is directly based on Teyvat.
Mona: A projection of real-world fate, to form an image of reality...
Mona: Or in layman's terms... basically, the creator made this world inside a mirror, or a lake, and this world is the reflection.

 

[Weaver261]

This proves nothing, only that Simulnaka's fate reflects the fate of the real world.

Fate is determined by the stars. That's how Teyvat fake stars work. Simulanka is also based on Teyvat meaning that Simulanka sky is also fake which disqualify for 4-A. Not to mention we already know that stars are just light blubs you can attach back

 

[Dog3352]

Fate is determined by the stars. That's how Teyvat fake stars work. Simulanka is also based on Teyvat meaning that Simulanka sky is also fake which disqualify for 4-A. Not to mention we already know that stars are just light blubs you can attach back

Yes, your point makes sense.

 

[Berento_Magnifico]

Fate is determined by the stars. That's how Teyvat fake stars work. Simulanka is also based on Teyvat meaning that Simulanka sky is also fake which disqualify for 4-A. Not to mention we already know that stars are just light blubs you can attach back

I don't think you can say that every star is a light bulb you can attach back, still need proof for that outside of Simulanka.

 

[GarrixianXD]

I don't think there's much to say, in the end, what matters is the fact that the argument of "term 'magic' in general = manipulation/use of elemental energy" is the only thing that supports the scale, which as I specifically described in the OP, this is not the case, in addition to there being no statement/evidence of the use of Elemental Energy or any type of UES in the creation magic used by the witches, I even put the scans directly saying what the creation magic is that the witches use to create the worlds.

And Simulanaka's point really matters, as it is what makes it clear what the witches' creation magic is.

All 3 witches created the Simulnaka;
All 3 witches have creation magic;
All 3 witches have the ability to make the "fantasy truth" become a "true fantasy" with their magic;
Simulnaka and Imaginarium Theather are created using witches' creation magic, and are realities within books (which also connects to the "true fantasy), making it obvious that it is the same creation magic.

Since the magic used to create the Simulnaka is the same one used to create the IT, the statements about Simulnaka also apply to the IT, in addition to the lines about magic.

Witches' creation magic is literally "create what I say/speak and create", it is even said that the world is made of words, so it is a magic/spell that gives the ability to create a pocket dimension with words, basically a creation hax of pocket dimension that has no evidence/statement of using elemental energy or any kind of UES (or something that makes creation scale to anything other than just creation).

Since the OP summarised his arguments, here are my objections:

1. The Imaginarium Theatre was specifically said to be created from a mysterious magical ink bottle called "fantasy truth", which Madame Mage harness it using her powers to create the realm called "true fantasy", which is the entire basis of the Genshin 4-A scaling. Simulanka wasn't said to have been created from fantasy truth, nor was it provided anywhere in this discussion that Simulanka was created using this "fantasy truth". Claiming that Simulanka was created using the same source and technique would rather be a hasty generalisation.

2. The Imaginarium Threatre wasn't created by any of the 3 witches who created Simulanka, but rather a mysterious unnamed witch named "Madame Mage", who isn't specified to be any of the 3 witches that created Simulanka. Claiming that "Madame Mage" is one of those 3 witches is also a hasty generalisation. Only Madame Mage was mentioned to be able to make "fantasy truth" into a "true fantasy"; not a single piece of evidence clearly hints that this ability applies to all of the 3 witches who created Simulanka.

3. The Imaginarium Threatre is accessed through a book, but it is said to be a world that is between the boundaries of reality and fantasy. Reality refers to the main Universe, and fantasy refers to fiction itself. Not to mention that it is been said to be a "true fantasy", which can be dismissed as a realm that has a fictional theme to it, rather than being a strictly fictional world. On top of it, it's been said that they were once fictional stories before being given a sort of life it, hinting that Madame Mage used her "fantasy truth" to transform it into a real world, and after all, it is been said to be a "true fantasy".

4. Witch Magic, including Creation, is part of the Genshin UES. More details are explained in these sections. Also, not to mention the concept of Alchemy, which is a technique of creation that entirely revolves around the seven elements of Teyvat. Also, yeah, no need to say but Madame Mage was said to have used her powers in order to use the "fantasy truth" to create the 4-A realm.

5. I proved why Simulanka shouldn't be relevant anymore. However, the Imgur scan of Nilou's statement was newly provided so I'll express my issues with it. I delved into the quest where that statement took place, and there's additional context towards it. Before Nilou's statement took place, she said that magic is used to give life to inanimate objects. She said that the magic is activated through an incantation, meaning you have to say "Abracadabra" to use the magic. The world of Simulanka was made with magic that gave life[1][2], which means the 3 goddesses will have to say "abracadabra" crap tons of times to create a Simulanka, hence why Nilou said, "This is a world made of words". Overall, it shows that it is a flowery language on her part, and the phrase "This is a world made of words" is not to be taken literally. Adding to that, there are various items brought from Simulanka into the real world, such as Nilou's and Navia's clothing.

6. Another concern was that the size of the 4-A realm might be taken into consideration because there is a realm called a World Within a Painting, which implies a similar world that is stored inside a painting, was created using the same magic that created the 4-A realm. However, it should be noted that Pocket Realities are spatially separate from other dimensions, therefore being stored within materialised objects of other universes won't count.

7. R>F qualitative inferiority obviously doesn't work. Items, such as Nilou and Kirara's outfits that are from Simulanka can be brought into the real world. Not to mention in the Imaginarium Theatre, the Traveller has to put in the effort to killing the enemies that are in the Imaginarium Theatre, and there's a health bar it can decrease, meaning the Traveller can also die to those enemies

These are my summarised objections. However, I'll say that the current scaling chain is wrong and I do believe that 4-A rating should be deleted from various characters. However, it is another topic to be resolved; this CRT entirely revolves around the legitimacy of the 4-A feat itself, not the scaling chain or anything else.

@DarkDragonMedeus @Maverick_Zero_X @LephyrTheRevanchist @DarkGrath @Qawsedf234 @Firestorm808 @LordGriffin1000 @ActuallySpaceMan42 @Propellus Pinging for re-evaluation as requested.

I'll let the staff decide.

 

[Weaver261]

it is said to be a world that is between the boundaries of reality and fantasy

This is the third time and you are still not getting it right. That description is for THE LOBBY. It means the lobby is in between the reality (Teyvat) & Fantasy (Imaginarium Theater).

 

[GarrixianXD]

This is the third time and you are still not getting it right. That description is for THE LOBBY. It means the lobby is in between the reality (Teyvat) & Fantasy (Imaginarium Theater).

It isn't. Fantasia Tome is literally this thing, the book that you open to access the realm.

 

[Berento_Magnifico]

These people are trying their absolute hardest to downgrade Genshin Impact, just let it be man, honestly. Some characters need changes though.

 

[Woomica]

These people are trying their absolute hardest to downgrade Genshin Impact, just let it be man, honestly. Some characters need changes though.

If you dont have anything else to say then leave this thread and let the people who actually argue here finish this debate, its been NINE pages and no changes, yall complain abt character scaling but not argue against the core of the problem with his scaling and then we get 9 pages of yap, please let Garri Dog and Weaver finish this (and who else argues in this thread) and then you can comment in discussion thread if you want to, no offense.

 

[Berento_Magnifico]

If you dont have anything else to say then leave this thread and let the people who actually argue here finish this debate, its been NINE pages and no changes, yall complain abt character scaling but not argue against the core of the problem with his scaling and then we get 9 pages of yap, please let Garri Dog and Weaver finish this (and who else argues in this thread) and then you can comment in discussion thread if you want to, no offense.

Tbh you're right, I apologize

 

[Weaver261]

It isn't. Fantasia Tome is literally this thing, the book that you open to access the realm.

That thing is literally a book in the lobby. The stages are inside the book. The book exists in between reality and fantasy. Not to mention the room (lobby) is also stated as suspending between fiction and reality. Moreover, these stages of worlds if you want to call that way only exist for those who believe in it. That's the magic of imagination that Madam mage used to talk about. Toy medal and gold can have the same value if u believe in it but their core compositions are literally different from each other. The same can go for the stages. And it's inside a book. The events that happened in there are written in text. With this amount of information present, saying it's real because it's stated "True fantasy" (which is a really vague term to tell exactly what's it).

 

[GarrixianXD]

That thing is literally a book in the lobby. The stages are inside the book. The book exists in between reality and fantasy.

Or the book can be a portal to access those realms instead of being something that contains it.

Not to mention the room (lobby) is also stated as suspending between fiction and reality.

Now this is just blatantly false, and you didn't even provide a scan.

Edit: Actually nvm. I found the description that it applies to the lobby as well. Though, it doesn't seem it'll prove much, as those descriptions refer to both objects.

 

[Weaver261]

Or the book can be a portal to access those realms instead of being something that contains it.

Now this is just blatantly false, and you didn't even provide a scan.

Edit: Actually nvm. I found the description that it applies to the lobby as well. Though, it doesn't seem it'll prove much, as those descriptions refer to both objects.

There's literally no mention of the book being a portal to a different dimension parallel to Teyvat. That's just assumption and why did you dismissed the part about "magic of imagination" and the realms only become real to those who believe in them????
There are tons of statements hinting it's just fiction. And you are gonna take what is convenient to scale up by assuming that this book is a portal?

 

[GarrixianXD]

That's just assumption and why did you dismissed the part about "magic of imagination" and the realms only become real to those who believe in them????

Do you mean this part? This is blatant flowery language, and it isn't even referring to any pocket realities created by Witches.

 

[Weaver261]

Do you mean this part? This is blatant flowery language, and it isn't even referring to any pocket realities created by Witches.

About the cardboard in the performance venue...
Wolfy: That moment when you first step onto the stage, do you not feel anything different at all? Do you not feel the unique ambiance within the magic ring?
Wolfy: sigh... This is one thing even one such as I, the concierge, cannot help you with...
Wolfy: It is only when guests "believe" from the bottom of their hearts that it's all real that the doors to that special world open wide before them.

 

[GarrixianXD]

@Weaver261 Provide the scan for that.

Nvm, found it. The context doesn't seem to have any relevance to the 4-A realm in question.

 

[Weaver261]

@Weaver261 Provide the scan for that.

Nvm, found it. The context doesn't seem to have any relevance to the 4-A realm in question.

Here

 

[Dog3352]

1. The Imaginarium Theatre was specifically said to be created from a mysterious magical ink bottle called "fantasy truth", which Madame Mage harness it using her powers to create the realm called "true fantasy", which is the entire basis of the Genshin 4-A scaling. Simulanka wasn't said to have been created from fantasy truth, nor was it provided anywhere in this discussion that Simulanka was created using this "fantasy truth". Claiming that Simulanka was created using the same source and technique would rather be a hasty generalisation.

In addition to Woofy clearly talking about someone else and not Madame Mage (which is made very clear with "one of them"), there is also the fact that nothing says that IT was created by the ink, just that one of the witches has the ink

2. The Imaginarium Threatre wasn't created by any of the 3 witches who created Simulanka, but rather a mysterious unnamed witch named "Madame Mage", who isn't specified to be any of the 3 witches that created Simulanka. Claiming that "Madame Mage" is one of those 3 witches is also a hasty generalisation. Only Madame Mage was mentioned to be able to make "fantasy truth" into a "true fantasy"; not a single piece of evidence clearly hints that this ability applies to all of the 3 witches who created Simulanka.

I think you clearly didn't read the entire Simulnaka mission, the Theater was created by Berbeloth (one of the 3 witches), as you can see from the description of the witch given by Woofy.

"Speaking of which, Madame Mage is really amazing! She can see the path of fate in starry reflections, so you should be really satisfied with the divination service she proposed, right?"

3. The Imaginarium Threatre is accessed through a book, but it is said to be a world that is between the boundaries of reality and fantasy. Reality refers to the main Universe, and fantasy refers to fiction itself. Not to mention that it is been said to be a "true fantasy", which can be dismissed as a realm that has a fictional theme to it, rather than being a strictly fictional world. On top of it, it's been said that they were once fictional stories before being given a sort of life it, hinting that Madame Mage used her "fantasy truth" to transform it into a real world, and after all, it is been said to be a "true fantasy".

My interpretation continues to work here, besides the but, the world is not accessed through the book as if the book were a door, the world is literally inside the book, Alice herself says that she entered the book.
And you seem to be ignoring the statements in IT that the worlds are literally inside the book and paintings.

4. Witch Magic, including Creation, is part of the Genshin UES. More details are explained in these sections. Also, not to mention the concept of Alchemy, which is a technique of creation that entirely revolves around the seven elements of Teyvat. Also, yeah, no need to say but Madame Mage was said to have used her powers in order to use the "fantasy truth" to create the 4-A realm.

This... doesn't make any sense at all, "UES = Universal Energy System", it's basically an "energy" that is used by characters in a verse for things like increasing stats/power, as is the case with Chakra (Naruto ), Ki (Dragon Ball), Magic/Magic Power (Maou Gakuin) or Elemental Energy (Genshin Impact). The witches' creation magic is nothing more than an ability/hax, this is definitely not a UES, and the main point is that there is no evidence that this creation magic uses Elemental Energy (UES) in its use (in the creation of the world /dimension).

Alchemy ≠ Witches' creation magic.

5. I proved why Simulanka shouldn't be relevant anymore. However, the Imgur scan of Nilou's statement was newly provided so I'll express my issues with it. I delved into the quest where that statement took place, and there's additional context towards it. Before Nilou's statement took place, she said that magic is used to give life to inanimate objects. She said that the magic is activated through an incantation, meaning you have to say "Abracadabra" to use the magic. The world of Simulanka was made with magic that gave life[1][2], which means the 3 goddesses will have to say "abracadabra" crap tons of times to create a Simulanka, hence why Nilou said, "This is a world made of words". Overall, it shows that it is a flowery language on her part, and the phrase "This is a world made of words" is not to be taken literally.

It's literal, and the context doesn't contradict or refute any of this, it just further supports this point.
Complaining about the spell needing to be said doesn't really refute or contradict anything.

 

[Weaver261]

Nvm, found it. The context doesn't seem to have any relevance to the 4-A realm in question.

Seem? That's all? It's clearly talking about the stages. If you start at act 1, you will be teleported to a stage room with cardboards. When you start the challenge, you will see cardboard falling down and the world behind the stage is revealed. The background of the stages changes at certain intervals. It's clearly clearly clearly indicating these are "The special worlds" wolfy is talking about. Seem isn't not enough to debunk that.

Here is the gameplay video

 

[GarrixianXD]

Seem? That's all? It's clearly talking about the stages. If you start at act 1, you will be teleported to a stage room with cardboards. When you start the challenge, you will see cardboard falling down and the world behind the stage is revealed. The background of the stages changes at certain intervals. It's clearly clearly clearly indicating these are "The special worlds" wolfy is talking about. Seem isn't not enough to debunk that.

Here is the gameplay video

This doesn't prove anything.

In addition to Woofy clearly talking about someone else and not Madame Mage (which is made very clear with "one of them"), there is also the fact that nothing says that IT was created by the ink, just that one of the witches has the ink

I think you clearly didn't read the entire Simulnaka mission, the Theater was created by Berbeloth (one of the 3 witches), as you can see from the description of the witch given by Woofy.

This is a hasty generalisation. Never was it once said the Madame Witch is Barbelotth.

My interpretation continues to work here, besides the but, the world is not accessed through the book as if the book were a door, the world is literally inside the book, Alice herself says that she entered the book.

"entered the book" Source?

And you seem to be ignoring the statements in IT that the worlds are literally inside the book and paintings.

I did not ignore anything; nothing explicitly mentions that those worlds are inside. Especially the 4-A realm in question for the sake of scaling.

 

[Weaver261]

This doesn't prove anything.

What? Is this how you refute that? Really? Isn't a debate where each side presents their own arguments and debate on why one of them is wrong? Instead of pointing why my argument is wrong, you just kept saying "This doesn't prove anything" "This seem otherwise" "Negative".

Anyway, I think we need more staff opinions on this.

 

[Dog3352]

This is a hasty generalisation. Never was it once said the Madame Witch is Barbelotth.

Woofy literally describes Madame Mage as the Berbeloth, in addition to making it very clear that the witches he talks about are the 3 witches, you are just ignoring Woofy's own statement.

"Speaking of which, Madame Mage is really amazing! She can see the path of fate in starry reflections, so you should be really satisfied with the divination service she proposed, right?"

entered the book" Source?

Wolfy: Put on a spectacular show for your audience, and you will receive a key that opens the door to the World Within the Painting...
Paimon: Whoa, hold up! First storybooks, now a world inside a painting? This place is making less and less sense all the time...

The book is literally filled with Traveler's adventures within the book, and those aren't even all the statements.

Wolfy: I enjoy watching your performances, so it's well worth it as far as I'm concerned! Hmm, I wonder how many blank pages are left in this book...
Wolfy: Ah, but not to worry. Even if we run out of space, new blank pages will be added very soon!
Wolfy: I do look forward to the day when all empty pages are filled with stories...

 

[GarrixianXD]

Your claim about Wolfy referring to Barbeloth being Madame Mage is purely a fan theory with absolutely no official evidence towards it at all. And send the links to those dialogues.

The World Within the Painting is a different realm from the 4-A realm.

 

[Dog3352]

Your claim about Wolfy referring to Barbeloth being Madame Mage is purely a fan theory with absolutely no official evidence towards it at all. And send the links to those dialogues.

The World Within the Painting is a different realm from the 4-A realm.

Are you literally ignoring Paimon saying "First storybooks, now a world inside a painting?"?

In addition to Woody saying that the pages of the book (IT) are filled with each Traveler adventure.

Wolfy: Yes, I saw! You were magnificent! I was completely enraptured by your performance.
Paimon: ...What do you mean "performance"?
Wolfy: Well, Madame Mage says that every page of a storybook is a segment of the "present."
Wolfy: I'm sure only the most distinguished of guests are able to take the stage as the story's protagonists, and put on a show as spectacular as yours!
Wolfy: What a thrilling battle... Yes, that's what every story needs to spice things up! Naturally, those are the kinds of stories I love reading the most.

Wolfy: I enjoy watching your performances, so it's well worth it as far as I'm concerned! Hmm, I wonder how many blank pages are left in this book...
Wolfy: Ah, but not to worry. Even if we run out of space, new blank pages will be added very soon!
Wolfy: I do look forward to the day when all empty pages are filled with stories...

 

[GarrixianXD]

Are you literally ignoring Paimon saying "First storybooks, now a world inside a painting?"?

In addition to Woody saying that the pages of the book (IT) are filled with each Traveler adventure.

No. The storybooks weren't even referring to the realm in question. Also, Paimon used "storybooks" to refer to Simulanka because it is a world based on storybooks and inherited its theme.

Also, if you want to make this an accusation for ignoring certain content then I can say the same with you and various users here. I can say that you ignored that the items from Simulanka can be brought upon the real world, you ignored that there clearly isn't any official evidence of Madame Witch being Barbeloth, and the storybooks weren't even referring to the 4-A ream in question which you just brought up, etc.

Get some sportsmanship. And Traveller doing stuff in the Imaginarium Theatre can be inscribed in a book doesn't mean shit; it is an extremely vague statement saying "there are going to be new blank pages added soon" and "for you to explore". None of this means anything, especially since I have already given multiple blatant and obvious showings that the realm is not fictional.

 

[Dog3352]

No. The storybooks weren't even referring to the realm in question. Also, Paimon used "storybooks" to refer to Simulanka because it is a world based on storybooks and inherited its theme.

wtf what absurd headcanon is this?
This is literally Woofy's dialogue after finishing act 6 of IT, which is when the person releases the worlds within the painting, where the hell did you get that she's referring to Simulnaka? Not to mention that Woofy literally mentions the IT/book as stories in the 2 statements I sent.

Also, if you want to make this an accusation for ignoring certain content then I can say the same with you and various users here. I can say that you ignored that the items from Simulanka can be brought upon the real world, you ignored that there clearly isn't any official evidence of Madame Witch being Barbeloth, and the storybooks weren't even referring to the 4-A ream in question which you just brought up, etc.

Some things from that world can go to real life (like the inhabitants), besides, the inhabitants really exist, being that they are roles, but with the life given by Alice's magic (and Alice literally gave life to a paper frog in real life), my point is that the reality/world itself is not real, not the clothes, they already appear in the world with the clothes, we don't know if the clothes are created with the same creation magic used to create Simulnaka.
I don't even honestly care if the Simulnaka and the IT/book are treated as normal pocket realities, since what matters to scale the creation feat is the UES.

Same thing I've already said and shown evidence of previously, the term "magic" also works for the use/manipulation of elemental energy, but not all things that have the term "magic" use elemental energy.
As is directly stated (it's in the OP), the world was created using words, which there is no evidence of using Elemental Energy or any type of energy that scales to anything other than the creation of the world.

I think you are skipping parts of the CRT before commenting.

Get some sportsmanship. And Traveller doing stuff in the Imaginarium Theatre can be inscribed in a book doesn't mean shit.

How does it mean nothing?
Woofy literally says that the stories in the IT/book are written in the present according to the Traveler's adventures in IT, it is more than obvious that he is inside the book, and his adventures within IT are written on the pages.

Also speaking about the part where you said this is "vague", it's clearly not vague at all.

Travaller interacts with the book (enters it);
Travaller completes an act;
Traveler leaves the book;
Woofy says that the stories written in the book are a segment of the present (referring to Travaller's adventures), and says that the "perfomaces" (Traveller's fights within IT) are written in the book and fill the page.

Wolfy: Yes, I saw! You were magnificent! I was completely enraptured by your performance.
Paimon: ...What do you mean "performance"?
Wolfy: Well, Madame Mage says that every page of a storybook is a segment of the "present."
Wolfy: I'm sure only the most distinguished of guests are able to take the stage as the story's protagonists, and put on a show as spectacular as yours!
Wolfy: What a thrilling battle... Yes, that's what every story needs to spice things up! Naturally, those are the kinds of stories I love reading the most.

Wolfy: In any case, I do hope you will be so kind as to indulge us with more of your fine performances. ...In fact, scratch that — I'm afraid I shall have to insist! The story of the "present" is waiting to be written, and you, dear guests, are the ones to fill its pages!

 

[Dog3352]

Your claim about Wolfy referring to Barbeloth being Madame Mage is purely a fan theory with absolutely no official evidence towards it at all. And send the links to those dialogues.

The World Within the Painting is a different realm from the 4-A realm.

Wolfy

Wolfy is an open-world shop NPC found in Imaginarium Theater, Knights of Favonius Headquarters, Mondstadt City, Starfell Valley, Mondstadt that sells Thespian Tricks. The stock of this shop costs Toy Medals and new stock is added monthly, alongside each Imaginarium Theater season. Tricks are...

genshin-impact.fandom.com

Berbeloth is literally the only known witch who is part of Hexenzirkel and who uses Hydromancy, her perfect description, her ability to create a world within a book, her use of Hydromancy, the fact that she is one of the witches, everything makes it very clear that she is Madame Mage.

 

[GarrixianXD]

What makes you think that other witches can't do the same? Alice knows astrology, even Mona; should tell you what Hexenzirkel generally does as well. Hasty generalisation + fan theory

Woofy says that the stories written in the book are a segment of the present (referring to Travaller's adventures), and says that the "perfomaces" (Traveller's fights within IT) are written in the book and fill the page.

How is it written? Unspecified. An extremely vague detail to attribute your claim.

Also, those clothing were literally created with the same Witch Creation Magic that is used to create Simulanka; even with it aside, it won't make any sense that you can bring fictional stuff into the real world. Your logic is flawed.

 

[GarrixianXD]

wtf what absurd headcanon is this?
This is literally Woofy's dialogue after finishing act 6 of IT, which is when the person releases the worlds within the painting, where the hell did you get that she's referring to Simulnaka? Not to mention that Woofy literally mentions the IT/book as stories in the 2 statements I sent.

If he wasn't referring to Simulanka with the term "storybooks" then my bad. I checked again and you're right, it seems like Paimon does seem to be referring to the book (that allows the Traveller to access the 4-A realm) itself when she said "storybooks". However, then again I provided evidence that the worlds aren't fictional at all; Paimon is new to the Imaginarium Theatre after all; she simply mentioned how she entered a world through a book, not saying that the world is inside the book. After all, there wasn't a similar statement saying "A World Within a Book" or something. Well, I see merit in the size of the realm if it is the case, but all I see is that only the World Within the Painting has its size insinutated, not the world accessed through the book which is the 4-A realm in question.

 

[Dog3352]

What makes you think that other witches can't do the same? Alice knows astrology, even Mona; should tell you what Hexenzirkel generally does as well. Hasty generalisation + fan theory

She is literally the only witch with creation magic that uses Hydromancy that we know of, besides the only witches we know capable of these acts are those who are part of the Hexenzirkel (greatest witches we know so far), Mona is only capable of using Hydromancy thanks to she.

How is it written? Unspecified. An extremely vague detail to attribute your claim.

There is literally nothing vague about this, it is stated directly.

Also, those clothing were literally created with the same Witch Creation Magic that is used to create Simulanka; even with it aside, it won't make any sense that you can bring fictional stuff into the real world. Your logic is flawed.

Literally 0 evidence, we have no idea how the clothes were created, the clothes just appear on them when they are in Simulnaka.

 

[GarrixianXD]

Those clothing are from Simulanka; everything in Simulanka is said to have been created with the same magic.

 

[Dog3352]

If he wasn't referring to Simulanka with the term "storybooks" then my bad. I checked again and you're right, it seems like Paimon does seem to be referring to the book (that allows the Traveller to access the 4-A realm) itself when she said "storybooks". However, then again I provided evidence that the worlds aren't fictional at all; Paimon is new to the Imaginarium Theatre after all; she simply mentioned how she entered a world through a book, not saying that the world is inside the book. After all, there wasn't a similar statement saying "A World Within a Book" or something. Well, I see merit in the size of the realm if it is the case, but all I see is that only the World Within the Painting has its size insinutated, not the world accessed through the book which is the 4-A realm in question.

Damn, this is an absurd level of forcing, are you just going to literally ignore Paimon comparing "worlds inside paintings" with the "worlds inside the book" they just came out with?