Genshin 4A downgrade...

[GarrixianXD]

Teyvat is real down to the core. The only that is not real in Teyvat is the sky which is actually a barrier set up by Primordial One. The barrier was made to protect Teyvat from the universe. Fantasy means the theatrical performance of player gameplay. They are written inside the book. There's no proof of the stages inside the gameplay are actual reality.

So you claim that it is written inside the book, but then again you argue it is between the boundaries of fantasy and reality? Yeah, doesn't seem like the case; no one is saying that the Imagarium Threatre is reality (if you meant Teyvat). And no, Teyvat is actually fake to the point that every single buried secretive detail implies the world is nothing but a hoax; nothing implies the false sky was meant to protect the universe, especially considering the vile and evil nature of the Gods of Celestia, and the Heavenly Principles.

Wolfy clearly stated the magic of imagination is just make believe. The toy medals and gold are entirely different things and they will never be the same but if they believe both have the same value, it has the same value. It's all just imitating reality and not real. The map description I have provided above also stated how the room is the in-between of fantasy and reality.

Wolfy statedment about "True Fantasy" doesn't really mean anything here. Just enhancing the fact that it's a real and true fantasy. If it's just reality, it will say so. But postfix word fantasy exist. So, it should mean "it's a fantasy no doubt".

Now this is just wrong. Wolfy was talking in a matter of perspective and belief.

 

[Weaver261]

So you claim that it is written inside the book, but then again you argue it is between the boundaries of fantasy and reality? Yeah, doesn't seem like the case; no one is saying that the Imagarium Threatre is reality (if you meant Teyvat).

I will say it again, please don't mix the lobby and the theater together. The description of "boundaries of fantasy and reality" is for the lobby. it is clearly stated here as a room.

A mysterious room suspended between fantasy and reality, before the tale's beginning and after its end.
A certain witch used magic to build this place, granting a different sort of life to things that were once mere fantastical stories.

You might want to start worshipping celestia and heavenly principle after you learn how much good deeds they have done to create, protect and sustain the Teyvat. Ofc, there're a few case of genocide and race cursing but hey we can't avoid it if we want to give some example as a ruler right? Narwhal description clearly stated about how the barrier are meant to protect the teyvat from the universe and creatures like Narwhal

Realistically speaking, however, if a profound universe full of life exists, why hasn't any of that life made contact with Teyvat?
Maybe the universe has been constantly trying to infiltrate Teyvat, or maybe a higher power created borders to protect this world.
- Narwhal description

Stated again here the barrier reduces the influence of other energies from the cosmo

But in other worlds, the subjects of astrological study are the solar ecliptic energies, the various lunar energies of the satellites, the will-energy of the celestial rulers of the planets, the scattered interference energy of distant stars, and the dark energy that suffuses the pitch-black cosmos. Of course, it's not like these things don't exert influence on our planet — they have merely been greatly weakened by a giant sky-shroud.
- The little witch and the undying fire book

Octavia from the hexenzirkel said the universe is dying and the stars are also dying. In natlan 5.1 ending, we can see the result of that. The only reason of Teyvat being okay is because of the protection of barrier. Show me a scan where it outright states Teyvat itself is fake. As far as I know, the only thing that's theorized to be fake is The Sky which turned out to be true.

 

[Dog3352]

Not sure how a witch's creation magic is different from elemental energy (or fundamental primitive energy in general; Genshin's UES) going by how the evidence was presented here. It doesn't seem to be an actual counter to it, other than showing techniques saying magic is used blah blah blah this and that; it didn't say it had no correlation to elemental energy. Nilou cannot use her vision in the Imaginarium Threatre because it was said that she doesn't know magic and can't use it. It is a different case with Wanderer since he can use his vision in the Imagarium Threatre because he wields a catalyst and therefore knows magic. That detail is more of a knowledge on magic type of thing to satisfy the property of the world, doesn't really debunk how it isn't connected to the UES.

The catalyst serves to concentrate elemental energy, and some teach how to use it, using elemental energy in the catalyst does not make it a different type of elemental energy/magic from the others, and the elemental energy still comes from the person/vision, and not of the catalyst.
Even if you were right, it doesn't change the fact that a person who the world leaves unable to use elemental energy/sight was able to use the witches' creation magic, making it obvious that there is no use of elemental energy other than her own saying that "magic is in words" and mentioning "the magic of this world" several times, making it clear that it is a magic different from that of the real world.

The room the book was in was said to be created with Witch Creation magic, which isn't part of the real world. But eh, we saw it on a random table in Mondstadt anyway. However, it begs the question that there are 2 copies of the book which you can access the world. And when you access the Imagarium Threatre from either book that is in Monsdadt or the room, you end up in the same Imagarium Threatre. Of course, that brings an issue towards the claim that the world is something inside a book, because if it is strictly inside a book then it can only be embedded upon one copy and can only be accessed through one copy. It creates suspicion and makes your line of reasoning unstable; the world cannot exist in 2 places at once. However, with the book acting as a portal to access the world would be a better interpretation.

Even if there were more than one book that leads to the Imaginarium Theater, that is not contradictory to what I said or to any kind of argument, since I have never stated that there can only be one book that leads to the Imaginarium Theater, in addition there is only one book for the adventures (in which you can see the player entering all the acts interacting with the book).

Yeah, sure, whatever you do in the realm can be inscribed and written into the book. Or Wolfy himself can just write stories based on your adventures in the Imagarium Theatre. I can see the link between the realm and the book now, but saying that the realm is a "fictional world" inside the book based on that alone is rather a slippery slope, especially since there are arguments that go against the belief, such that the world able to be accessed through 2 copies as well as said to be "A World Within the Patining", not a "World Within the Book".

It can be considered a world within if a painting does not contradict the arguments, and there are not 2 copies of the book (even if there were, it does not contradict anything), as you can see in the gameplays, people continue to enter the same book that is above of the table.

When did Paimon say something like "first world in books"? And if it is literal then why was the term "World Within of Painting" capitalised? It's obviously meant to be a title for the Imagarium Threatre.

I mean, even if you prove that the painting part is just a title, that still has nothing to do with the world being inside a book, which is already pretty obvious.

Like I said before. If it is strictly a dimension embedded within the book, then it can only exist in that copy because it is inside of it. The world cannot exist at multiple objects at once unless you argue for parallel dimensions which isn't the case, or you claim that the books are painting are portals to it instead.

I think you're forgetting that there are 10 acts and 3 different worlds (the worlds are separated by the acts of the book, from act 1 to act 3 is one world, from 4 to 6 is another world, from act 7 to 10 is another world), in addition to there not being a single world, which refutes your point, there is the fact that the Traveler enters all the worlds by interacting with the same/unique book.

 

[Dog3352]

- YouTube

Enjoy the videos and music you love, upload original content, and share it all with friends, family, and the world on YouTube.

www.youtube.com

One is the Simulnaka, the other is the Imaginarium Theather, they are two different worlds/realities.

 

[Furina003]

Wolfy clearly stated the magic of imagination is just make believe. The toy medals and gold are entirely different things and they will never be the same but if they believe both have the same value, it has the same value. It's all just imitating reality and not real. The map description I have provided above also stated how the room is the in-between of fantasy and reality.

Wolfy statement about "True Fantasy" doesn't really mean anything here. Just enhancing the fact that it's a real and true fantasy. If it's just reality, it will say so. But postfix word fantasy exist. So, it should mean "it's a fantasy no doubt".

bro, you can even keep this toy medal and exchange it back to Wolfy, how can we assume it's just imagination? clearly the medal has physicality.

So we have to understand, this is what is meant by Wolfy's real fantasy.

IT and Simulanka are fantasy worlds from a story/book.

Wizards use their magic to turn books containing fantasy stories into reality, so they are called real fantasies.

 

[Weaver261]

bro, you can even keep this toy medal and exchange it back to Wolfy, how can we assume it's just imagination? clearly the medal has physicality.

So we have to understand, this is what is meant by Wolfy's real fantasy.

IT and Simulanka are fantasy worlds from a story/book.

Wizards use their magic to turn books containing fantasy stories into reality, so they are called real fantasies.

Eh......I don't mean about Toy Medal there. I'm just stating the belief of same value between toy medal and gold is the magic of imagination that Madam Mage used. Toy medal and gold are entirely different things composed of different substances. But if you believe they have the same monetary value, they are the same value. But does that mean toy medal and gold are the same thing? Ofc not, gold is gold and toy medal is toy medal. But their values are the same. This is the magic of imagination and we can apply that to reality and fantasy too.
Reality is just reality composed of matter and stuffs. Fantasy is just in the air with no substance. It's just your imagination. But if you belive both experience to be real, go touch grass- I mean they have the same experience. Wolfy constantly talked about how he can't differentiate the dream and reality cuz they both feel real to him. It's pretty clear, the world of Imaginarium Therater is not a real spatial dimension but rather just a fiction you can experience as reality. That is a big difference.

 

[Weaver261]

I am not sure if OP already addressed this (I think OP already did but not enough). Scattered Stars are the one you collect in the story of Simulanka. And you ride the aerial express. The, you can hang them in the sky. The quest description literally stated "Restore the stars to their position" and as you can see here they are the size of a ligh bulb.
Now, I'm 100% sure 4-A rating for everyone should be removed, even the mages.

 

[Woomica]

I am not sure if OP already addressed this (I think OP already did but not enough). Scattered Stars are the one you collect in the story of Simulanka. And you ride the aerial express. The, you can hang them in the sky. The quest description literally stated "Restore the stars to their position" and as you can see here they are the size of a ligh bulb.
Now, I'm 100% sure 4-A rating for everyone should be removed, even the mages.

you make wana reach into screen and panch you
how is that supposed to debunk fake stars in IT and how is that a basis that all stars are light bulb sized when you can see obvious ones thousands+ light years away...
that is litteraly for roleplay set in simulanka and you can see it by narrative shown trough entire simulanka quest

 

[DivinumAeterna]

bro, you can even keep this toy medal and exchange it back to Wolfy, how can we assume it's just imagination? clearly the medal has physicality.

The toy medal being in your inventory for gameplay reasons (because where else would the game store it) has no bearing on the toy medal's physicality. The point is that you still don't ever in the story or lore bring it OUTSIDE of IT, neither do you trade it with Wolfy for an actually physically tangible item - just character poses. Which of course you would, because what else could you buy with fake toy medals that only exist in IT? Next thing we're gonna hear is that Traveler actually physically carries around all the primos they get with them... /s

 

[Weaver261]

you make wana reach into screen and panch you
how is that supposed to debunk fake stars in IT and how is that a basis that all stars are light bulb sized when you can see obvious ones thousands+ light years away...
that is litteraly for roleplay set in simulanka and you can see it by narrative shown trough entire simulanka quest

This message isn't about IT. I already debunked about IT in eariler messages. This message about stars being the size of a light blub is for Simulanka. Show me a scan where they stated stars are light years apart. Or is it just visual assumption? It won't work since we already had an example of Teyvat's stars being just meteorites hung on the barrier although they looks light years apart. Show me a scan where they stated stars you can hang and stars in the background are not the same. If it's not stated, both can be assumed to be the same since they are called called as "Stars".

 

[Berento_Magnifico]

This message isn't about IT. I already debunked about IT in eariler messages. This message about stars being the size of a light blub is for Simulanka. Show me a scan where they stated stars are light years apart. Or is it just visual assumption? It won't work since we already had an example of Teyvat's stars being just meteorites hung on the barrier although they looks light years apart. Show me a scan where they stated stars you can hang and stars in the background are not the same. If it's not stated, both can be assumed to be the same since they are called called as "Stars".

Show me a scan where it's stated that every single star in all of Genshin Impact are the size of a light bulb

 

[Woomica]

This message isn't about IT. I already debunked about IT in eariler messages. This message about stars being the size of a light blub is for Simulanka. Show me a scan where they stated stars are light years apart. Or is it just visual assumption? It won't work since we already had an example of Teyvat's stars being just meteorites hung on the barrier although they looks light years apart.

On the barrier...well duh im not assuming the sky in teyvat are real just because they are far away, im talking about IT since you assume stars beinf light bulb sized in simulanka means same for the stars in IT
So what abaut the planets then? are they giant gas or rock?

Show me a scan where they stated stars you can hang and stars in the background are not the same. If it's not stated, both can be assumed to be the same since they are called called as "Stars".

tbf i dont get this part but ill try to get scans when i get home.

 

[Weaver261]

On the barrier...well duh im not assuming the sky in teyvat are real just because they are far away, im talking about IT since you assume stars beinf light bulb sized in simulanka means same for the stars in IT
So what abaut the planets then? are they giant gas or rock?

I will say it again. Stars being the size of a light bulb is just for simulanka. Simulanka and IT are entirely different creations. IT is not even reality. it's no where stated as a pocket dimension either. Read the above arguments of mine.

Show me a scan where it's stated that every single star in all of Genshin Impact are the size of a light bulb

God no.....
I didn't say every single star in Genshin are size of a light bulb. Only the stars in simulanka are. Stars in Teyvat are just meteorites. Real stars only exist out in the universe.

 

[Woomica]

I will say it again. Stars being the size of a light bulb is just for simulanka. Simulanka and IT are entirely different creations. IT is not even reality. it's no where stated as a pocket dimension either. Read the above arguments of mine.

i didnt keep up with that part so..yeah my bad
tough i doubt IT not being reality at all, it sounds like we are literalu 2D when we interact with book.
yk what garri can argue instead of me

 

[Furina003]

This message isn't about IT. I already debunked about IT in eariler messages. This message about stars being the size of a light blub is for Simulanka. Show me a scan where they stated stars are light years apart. Or is it just visual assumption? It won't work since we already had an example of Teyvat's stars being just meteorites hung on the barrier although they looks light years apart. Show me a scan where they stated stars you can hang and stars in the background are not the same. If it's not stated, both can be assumed to be the same since they are called called as "Stars".

ugh, you can even see the appearance of stars in IT and simulanka which are completely different.

in IT you can see planets and planetary satellites in large sizes, does the simulanka also show this?

Try to prove that this star is the same as the Simulanka star, even though visually it is different.

 

[Furina003]

The toy medal being in your inventory for gameplay reasons (because where else would the game store it) has no bearing on the toy medal's physicality. The point is that you still don't ever in the story or lore bring it OUTSIDE of IT, neither do you trade it with Wolfy for an actually physically tangible item - just character poses. Which of course you would, because what else could you buy with fake toy medals that only exist in IT? Next thing we're gonna hear is that Traveler actually physically carries around all the primos they get with them... /s

So you have to know first that the dialogue appears after you complete IT, and the medal actually exists physically, seriously?
You don't even know that the medal Wolfy is referring to is a toy medal

 

[Dog3352]

Before we even discuss "Toy Medals", IT's toy medals are just for gameplay, as are the items we get as rewards after completing IT's acts and the "Thespian Trick", as these types of things are never mentioned like something that is part of genshin like lore, but just talks about gameplay.

toy medals are used to unlock thespian tricks, thespian tricks are just poses for photos, it doesn't make any sense to fight in IT to win toy medals and unlock POSES FOR PHOTOS, considering that it would be at least strange to say that the characters in lore cannot pose for photos unless they unlock it in IT, in addition to thespian tricks being on the wiki itself just a game system (mechanics).

Wolfy: Are you interested in learning any new Thespian Tricks? By which I mean dashing and elegant poses! In fact, what would you say to a friendly exchange? I'll teach you some Thespian Tricks in return for Toy Medals from the treasure chests.

 

[DivinumAeterna]

So you have to know first that the dialogue appears after you complete IT, and the medal actually exists physically, seriously?
You don't even know that the medal Wolfy is referring to is a toy medal

The medal being tangible in IT doesn't make it physical, just like the stuff you interact with in video games is just data despite having a physical representation as sprites or 3D models inside any given game environment. You'll also have to excuse my rudeness but your arguments are becoming progressively more incoherent, please take your time to present them in a more orderly manner.

 

[Furina003]

Before we even discuss "Toy Medals", IT's toy medals are just for gameplay, as are the items we get as rewards after completing IT's acts and the "Thespian Trick", as these types of things are never mentioned like something that is part of genshin like lore, but just talks about gameplay.

toy medals are used to unlock thespian tricks, thespian tricks are just poses for photos, it doesn't make any sense to fight in IT to win toy medals and unlock POSES FOR PHOTOS, considering that it would be at least strange to say that the characters in lore cannot pose for photos unless they unlock it in IT, in addition to thespian tricks being on the wiki itself just a game system (mechanics).

The medal is for the game, so why are you using it as a reference?

I'm just responding to what you guys discussed. Wolfy even explained that the medal was really for the game mechanism

 

[Dog3352]

The medal is for the game, so why are you using it as a reference?

I'm just responding to what you guys discussed. Wolfy even explained that the medal was really for the game mechanism

I'm just saying this so it doesn't turn into an argument later.

 

[DivinumAeterna]

The medal is for the game, so why are you using it as a reference?

I'm just responding to what you guys discussed. Wolfy even explained that the medal was really for the game mechanism

Yeah well, you tried defending its physicality anyway, even if you're only now admitting it's just a game mechanic. Even so, the writers did put some effort into writing dialogue and explanations for the toy medals and thespian tricks as if they're actual elements of the world unlike stuff like primos, so I believe it's certainly usable as a valid argument against IT's 'real' nature.

But sure, feel free to ignore this argument point if you don't like discussing it, I can't tell you what to do /shrug

 

[Furina003]

Yeah well, you tried defending its physicality anyway, even if you're only now admitting it's just a game mechanic. Even so, the writers did put some effort into writing dialogue and explanations for the toy medals and thespian tricks as if they're actual elements of the world unlike stuff like primos, so I believe it's certainly usable as a valid argument against IT's 'real' nature.

But sure, feel free to ignore this argument point if you don't like discussing it, I can't tell you what to do /shrug

that can't prove anything, if you're like that it means you're only taking what you think benefits your argument, in fact the medal does have physical

 

[Weaver261]

I don't even understand why you guys are arguing about the physicality of toy medal.
My original argument about toy medal is the belief of the same value with gold which is the magic of imagination. That's the magic of imagination, Madam mage told to Wolfy. Considering imaginarium theater is also just imagination , the same logic can apply here. It's pretty clear that fight stages in IT doesn't really exist as a pocket reality but rather a fictional world.

 

[DivinumAeterna]

I don't even understand why you guys are arguing about the physicality of toy medal. It's stated clearly that toy medal are given by Wolfy. It's not like you brought toy medal from imaginarium theater which is inside the book.(You can say toy medal are from IT based on game reward system but description stated otherwise)
My original argument about toy medal is the belief of the same value with gold which is the magic of imagination. That's the magic of imagination, Madam mage told to Wolfy. Considering imaginarium theater is also just imagination , the same logic can apply here. It's pretty clear that fight stages in IT doesn't really exist as a pocket reality but rather a fictional world.

If you don't understand, allow me to explain: it is because I'm going off my original argument going back a few pages about the toy medal, NOT based on your version of the argument.

I believe that the toy medal not being a physical item in the real world of Teyvat is a supporting point in that IT itself is not real, not even the lobby you enter before the actual stages. I'm sure if Wolfy was capable of doing so, then he'd give the Traveler more valuable things as a reward to use outside of IT - but he actually cannot, because nothing in IT is real or physically tangible to be interacted with in the outside world. It's all made up and is a fantasy story isolated in a ficticious pocket dimension, if even that.

 

[Furina003]

I don't even understand why you guys are arguing about the physicality of toy medal.
My original argument about toy medal is the belief of the same value with gold which is the magic of imagination. That's the magic of imagination, Madam mage told to Wolfy. Considering imaginarium theater is also just imagination , the same logic can apply here. It's pretty clear that fight stages in IT doesn't really exist as a pocket reality but rather a fictional world.

actually i have explained this from the start. IT is indeed a world of fantasy and imagination, because this is a world that comes from a book written. This world is made real by mademe witch, so Wolfy calls it a real fantasy world. which was originally a fantasy story, was turned into a real fantasy.

"As long as you believe, even Toy Medals can be more valuable than gold" "That's the magic of imagination. Madam Mage told me that"

Yes, if we understand this again, what the witch meant was that imagination could make this medal more valuable than gold. this in no way proves that IT is not real

 

[Dog3352]

actually i have explained this from the start. IT is indeed a world of fantasy and imagination, because this is a world that comes from a book written. This world is made real by mademe witch, so Wolfy calls it a real fantasy world. which was originally a fantasy story, was turned into a real fantasy.


Yes, if we understand this again, what the witch meant was that imagination could make this medal more valuable than gold. this in no way proves that IT is not real

There is nothing that says that Toy Medals exist in the real world, why the hell is someone insisting on the "physicality" of this currency that doesn't even have evidence of existing in real life?

 

[Nero1215]

Agreed. As a Chinese it is hard to resist this downgrade. I was completely shocked when my friend told me about it（4-A）.

 

[Nero1215]

Agreed. As a Chinese it is hard to resist this downgrade. I was completely shocked when my friend told me about it（4-A）.

Maybe he can defeat the mage, but how can you prove that he is greater than this power? After all, the sorcerer has never demonstrated the same destructive effect, so naturally there is no evidence greater than the ability to create this space.
Perhaps, this should be "special abilities" rather than attack effectiveness

 

[Furina003]

There is nothing that says that Toy Medals exist in the real world, why the hell is someone insisting on the "physicality" of this currency that doesn't even have evidence of existing in real life?

this was even obtained from a chest

Wolfy: I'm afraid I still have some work to do before everything is ready... Thank you for your patience, my dear guests.
Wolfy: If you'd like, you can take the stage and perform once more. There'll be Toy Medals waiting for you in treasure chests afterwards!

and this medal is also what you exchanged for Wolfy, obviously it has physicality

Wolfy: Are you interested in learning any new Thespian Tricks? By which I mean dashing and elegant poses! In fact, what would you say to a friendly exchange? I'll teach you some Thespian Tricks in return for Toy Medals from the treasure chests.

 

[Furina003]

Maybe he can defeat the mage, but how can you prove that he is greater than this power? After all, the sorcerer has never demonstrated the same destructive effect, so naturally there is no evidence greater than the ability to create this space.
Perhaps, this should be "special abilities" rather than attack effectiveness

DC can't equate it with AP, a lot of fiction out there has AP above tier 5b, but never shows the destruction of planets in battle

 

[EastofEden07]

Agreed with this crt
By the way, can @Furina003 please provide with the original text (Chinese) of this feat? I suspect there may be deviations caused by translation
After all, there are precedents for this kind of situation in this forum.

 

[Nero1215]

DC can't equate it with AP, a lot of fiction out there has AP above tier 5b, but never shows the destruction of planets in battle

Well, I didn't mention the bad game performances (because they were bad). The problem I mentioned is the problem of creating feat scaling

 

[EastofEden07]

Btw, I have to talk about the Genesis Crystal feat
In the English text, it is said that "it contains enough energy to create a newborn star."
but In fact, this feat is not mentioned in the original text, it only exists in the English text,so yeah...

 

[Woomica]

Btw, I have to talk about the Genesis Crystal feat
In the English text, it is said that "it contains enough energy to create a newborn star."
but In fact, this feat is not mentioned in the original text, it only exists in the English text,so yeah...

What does this have to do with 4-A in the slightest? this isnt even canon stuff and you spend MONEY to get it

 

[EastofEden07]

What does this have to do with 4-A in the slightest? this isnt even canon stuff and you spend MONEY to get it

Because I saw somebody was trying to use this to argument the upgrade of GI tier 5-4 upgrade

 

[DivinumAeterna]

Because I saw somebody was trying to use this to argument the upgrade of GI tier 5-4 upgrade

Genshin scalers will grasp at any straws to get out of tier 6... still, it's more tactful to remain on topic and the actual pro-upgrade arguments being presented in this thread and the original CRT.

 

[Dog3352]

this was even obtained from a chest

and this medal is also what you exchanged for Wolfy, obviously it has physicality

As I said before, this is all inside the room/IT, not in the real world, being physical within the respective world/reality is still in my argument and does not refute/contradict anything, in addition to the game itself making it clear that the Toy Medals they only exist for game mechanics (specifically for IT).

 

[EastofEden07]

it's more tactful to remain on topic and the actual pro-upgrade arguments being presented in this thread and the original CRT.

Agreed

 

[Dog3352]

Because I saw somebody was trying to use this to argument the upgrade of GI tier 5-4 upgrade

The fact that they tried to use this as supporting evidence was really funny to me, but as others have said, this isn't eciste in Genshin lore/canon, it's basically money.

 

[Furina003]

As I said before, this is all inside the room/IT, not in the real world, being physical within the respective world/reality is still in my argument and does not refute/contradict anything, in addition to the game itself making it clear that the Toy Medals they only exist for game mechanics (specifically for IT).

bro, the It room is just a library in mondo, Meanwhile, the feat being discussed is the space contained in the books in the library that Wolfy looks after