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General DC Comics Discussion Thread

Elizio33 said:
Because Williamson's Infinite Frontier and Dark Crisis are a direct continuity not only with Morrison's Multiversity and Snyder's Death Metal stories, but also with Marv Wolfman's Crisis on Infinite Earths. The differences, while present, were considered small enough to be included, what we learned in Dark Crisis: The Deadly Green is what undid some notable contradictions between Snyder's stories and Williamson's a year later with The Great Darkness. It is true that Morrison's Overvoid was retconned as "Light", but most of the elements of the original depiction of the Overvoid came from Morrison's interviews... From the comics, the Overvoid has been a non-dual sentient void from which the multiverse was born. The fact that the Overvoid was considered God was mainly Morrison's own words from his interviews as such an idea was not mentioned in the comics, apart from the Monitors.
Click to expand...
This is pretty untrue. The Overvoid being this ultimate supreme oneness wasn’t mentioned in the comics. However, its idea that it is God as well as being the non-dual Void, however was in the comics.

Dark Crisis and Infinite Frontier being a continuation of the stories doesn’t at all elude to anything. It certainly ties in with Snyder since Williamson worked with him in a couple of comics but the difference to Morrison is quite substantial.
 
Elizio is right. Williamson isn't a situation like DeMatteis where he's just doing his own thing independent of other authors. He's directly building upon what came before and referencing it frequently. Some things may have changed, but, it's undeniably a continuation.
 
That's not really what I'm getting at. I'm referring to his cosmology, I'm not saying he never worked with another author on anything. His cosmology doesn't reference or incorporate the works of other authors. There's no Endless, no Monitor, etc. I feel like this is pretty obvious given the context of the discussion.
 
Deagonx said:
Elizio is right. Williamson isn't a situation like DeMatteis where he's just doing his own thing independent of other authors. He's directly building upon what came before and referencing it frequently. Some things may have changed, but, it's undeniably a continuation.
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This shouldn’t be some sort of arbitrary rule about “building upon previous work.” All that entails is that more like be added based on the author in charge that will contradicts information that was introduced by the previous author.

As such the understanding of the Overvoid and Monitors were pretty pin point clear and established in Morrison cosmology which was then changed in Snyder. If this was the rule that we were going off from then there shouldn’t be a split at all. If so, then why are we nit picking what works and does not. Your example of Matteis can be counterintuitive since he also introduce previous known notion about characters established from previous others especially when he took over Justice League Dark. Mike Carey logic also seems a bit flaud when comparing it to Gaiman who does not reference Jin En Moks, Basanos, or the important beings that should have made a difference. He doesn’t even call “God” Yahweh nor reference his departure despite being a collaborator of Carey.
 
Everything is always changing. We can't create a cosmology split for every individual snapshot of the cosmology when a change is made. The split was based on self-contained continuities where the sole basis for considering characters or events as connected is that they were printed by DC, rather than using the same characters or even concepts. That's why Pralaya and Perpetua and Mother Night do not scale to each other.
 
“Self-contained continuity” is such a vague and baseless word in the context of what should be consider viable or not. You might as well as common sense and analogs to that as well. We can consider Night as “darkness” but the idea of “darkness” would still be present across different cosmologies, just with different names while the inherent nature of said beings are almost the same. If splitting cosmology was based on “almost the same but still different” then we’re basically nitpicking semantics behind what makes one author not compatible with another.
 
VeryGoofyToddler said:
You might as well as common sense and analogs to that as well. We can consider Night as “darkness” but the idea of “darkness” would still be present across different cosmologies, just with different names while the inherent nature of said beings are almost the same.
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These beings have something in common, certainly, but having elements in common doesn't mean they're the same character. Superman and Sentry have a lot in common, but it would be silly to regard them as "different names for beings with the same inherent nature."

These cosmological characters were written by different people, used in different storylines that didn't overlap with each other, and have different characterizations and features. Pralaya is not the mother of the Endless. Trying to force her into a cosmology that involves them just to say it's all the same thing isn't productive or accurate.

VeryGoofyToddler said:
If splitting cosmology was based on “almost the same but still different” then we’re basically nitpicking semantics behind what makes one author not compatible with another.
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It's not, it's based on continuity. There's clear continuity from Morrison to Snyder to Williamson. There is not continuity between Carey and Morrison.
 
Deagonx said:
These beings have something in common, certainly, but having elements in common doesn't mean they're the same character. Superman and Sentry have a lot in common, but it would be silly to regard them as "different names for beings with the same inherent nature."
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That wasn’t the point. I was making an example of arguing for what “specifics” is being entailed to propose that one can’t work with the other. This was a response to your notion of why Perpetua, Pralaya, and Night can’t work because each one was created in a different story that does not connect the three together. My point was where is the line being drawn with the three?
Deagonx said:
These cosmological characters were written by different people, used in different storylines that didn't overlap with each other, and have different characterizations and features. Pralaya is not the mother of the Endless. Trying to force her into a cosmology that involves them just to say it's all the same thing isn't productive or accurate.
Click to expand...
It needn’t be accurate since every story changes an element. This honestly is just superstitious since no other work of fiction seems to be receiving the treatment DC is having and that’s not mentioning VSBW is special for the only one doing it.

The point is we’re just kind of picking apart things because they don’t seem to overlap in continuity. However, a better point would be asking where and when does that matter really when talking something with a long history. I mean we’re only taking a small amount of authors most current takes on this yet we should include the time the authors do reference events from other authors which has been mentioned multiple times. Things like Pre-Crisis and its continuity should link with story that work in conjunction to each other and Vertigo was never completely separate. It’s usually only individual creators for some runs like solo series that seems to indicate a difference that matters enough for a split.
Deagonx said:
It's not, it's based on continuity. There's clear continuity from Morrison to Snyder to Williamson. There is not continuity between Carey and Morrison.
Click to expand...
What? A continuity does mean it’s works with something. Obviously, Morrison and Carey can’t work. However, Morrison works seems to heavily focus on what he believe and think and that point would be made useless when Snyder starts introducing things that would have never been during Morrison time. Where’s the line being drawn here? A continuation shouldn’t be the basis, if not at all.

Honestly, discussing this is a turn off and I’ll leave it at that. I’ll be frank, I am not against the split but there’s so many issues with it that saying the split works better than composite shouldn't be a shared sentiment because there both inaccurate in many ways and flawed. I won’t discredit the hard work put into the split but it’s flawed and not any better.
 
VeryGoofyToddler said:
My point was where is the line being drawn with the three?
Click to expand...
They are being separated because they have no overlap, and operate within three completely different frameworks for how the cosmology works.

VeryGoofyToddler said:
What? A continuity does mean it’s works with something. Obviously, Morrison and Carey can’t work. However, Morrison works seems to heavily focus on what he believe and think and that point would be made useless when Snyder starts introducing things that would have never been during Morrison time. Where’s the line being drawn here? A continuation shouldn’t be the basis, if not at all.
Click to expand...
The very definition of "continuity" is continuation, saying that continuation shouldn't be the basis for continuity doesn't make sense.

VeryGoofyToddler said:
I won’t discredit the hard work put into the split but it’s flawed and not any better.
Click to expand...
Well we certainly disagree. Everything has its flaws, but the split is a huge improvement and is based on very sensible distinctions between the cosmologies. Most of the sour grapes are about how it affects scaling, I don't believe the criticisms of its foundation carry much weight.
 
Hirotoswnn1x said:
Does dc/vertigo have 1-A / High1-A or 0? divine presence= High1-A?
Click to expand...
Night, Time, Archangels, and Endless will most likely be High 1-A. What Ultima thinks of Yahweh is important. Accordingly, it may be 0. Divine Presence will be 0.
 
And of course, the characters that will be High 1-A will not be limited to these.
 
vsbattles.fandom.com

Batman (Earth-Two)

Bruce Wayne is the billionaire orphaned son of Thomas and Martha Wayne who were shot by the mugger Joe Chill. Ever since that event, Bruce swore on the souls of his parents that he would make the rest of his life warring on criminals, working his intelligence of science and physic at the upmost...
vsbattles.fandom.com vsbattles.fandom.com
This page has no references, most of the statistics are guesswork and it breaks our rules for Varies tiers. Does anyone have any complaints about me sending it to the page deletion thread?
 
LordTracer said:
vsbattles.fandom.com

Batman (Earth-Two)

Bruce Wayne is the billionaire orphaned son of Thomas and Martha Wayne who were shot by the mugger Joe Chill. Ever since that event, Bruce swore on the souls of his parents that he would make the rest of his life warring on criminals, working his intelligence of science and physic at the upmost...
vsbattles.fandom.com vsbattles.fandom.com
This page has no references, most of the statistics are guesswork and it breaks our rules for Varies tiers. Does anyone have any complaints about me sending it to the page deletion thread?
Click to expand...
the imgur link have the source origin in the title so I think refrence can be fixed, Just saying tho. I dont mind it being deleted
 
LordTracer said:
vsbattles.fandom.com

Batman (Earth-Two)

Bruce Wayne is the billionaire orphaned son of Thomas and Martha Wayne who were shot by the mugger Joe Chill. Ever since that event, Bruce swore on the souls of his parents that he would make the rest of his life warring on criminals, working his intelligence of science and physic at the upmost...
vsbattles.fandom.com vsbattles.fandom.com
This page has no references, most of the statistics are guesswork and it breaks our rules for Varies tiers. Does anyone have any complaints about me sending it to the page deletion thread?
Click to expand...
I'd say deleting it is fine.
 
vsbattles.com

Superboy (Post Crisis) page update

Currently, the Superboy (Kon-El) page looks like this https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Superboy_(Post-Crisis) I've made a sandbox to improve it, with references and a far expanded powers and abilities list: https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:AerrowStorm1/Superboy_Sanbox If there's...
vsbattles.com vsbattles.com
 
i gotta ask
by varies on superboy's page
its meaning pre and post kryptonian powers right ?
meaning pre kryptonain powers he was planet level when not at his peak and after kryptonian powers hes galaxy level when not at peak ?
 
i guess waiting to update kon's page might be smart since hes getting what presumably will be a good feat in the next house of brainiac issue

On giving Superboy some spotlight​

“I wanted to make sure everyone had their own little moment.

There’s a scene with Superboy that is pretty big and it’s teased a little bit in the second issue. Superboy had that encounter The Chained, and ever since then, he’s been like, ‘That person had my powers and was using them in a way that I don’t use them. Maybe I should look into that.’ And that is something that we explore over the course of this in a way. So you’ll see it’s pretty cool. It’s a two-page spread coming with Superboy. That’s pretty dope.”

conner will be getting something cool and hopefully its something new for him that adds to his page
i suspect it will just be destroying robots though and it'll probably not be as hype as Joshua Williamson is trying to hype it up to be
 
vsbattles.com

Martian Manhunter profile update

This isn't a proper profile revamp per say, but this is just updating several aspects of Martian Manhunter's current profile. Credit goes to Amelia Lonelyheart for a majority of the profile. Sandbox here Things that were updated: Abilities section is fleshed out more LS is redone with a...
vsbattles.com vsbattles.com
 
Lord_Farquaad69420 said:
How do ability upgrades work for DC, I'm asking due to Doomsday who in LAZARUS PLANET: WE ONCE WERE GODS, Doomsday is stated to regenerate from something as small as a nucleotide to even a memory, and another statement that Doomsday can come back from just genetic scraps (though I don't know where this statement is from exactly)
Click to expand...
Make a thread on the content revision forum
 
jay garricks new comic is over
its a shame
jeremy adams is great
AP1GczODKKThEtdGzSrHTXZl1AxOIT7IVQWwH98A7UaRTjoDIbvajMQrRqywI8qE61IfLgCutZ54ERjX-1EogAwRC6x5ss5686eDeuPePzkBTHfVOJClvDI=s0
AP1GczN034Ce62Ql-V6UnZHXnAfjXaTnka361pIgXsutyxEpNmym7PBPtzaxA2RSiUnIPMGcZJMgT7TOqOWB78jFjls0KLBngzaAg-YxzclLDV8DyFzZf0A=s0
jay garrick did something pretty cool
 
ProfectusInfinity said:
I'm not sure about that guy's takes. He released a video two weeks ago which was a 3-hour stream just ranting about our cosmology blog whilst strawmanning most major parts.
Click to expand...
fair i know he doesnt really like this place
i just assumed that the world forger feat was a well talked about thing in powerscaling
so i thought i would mention a video covering it
 
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