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For sure, I was already rereading all of his New 52 appearances even before asking.
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General DC Comics Discussion Thread
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- dc comics
Excellence616
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Excellence616
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Since when could Beast Boy turn into a swam of animals?
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Do any of y’all have knowledge on Doom Patrol?
IdiosyncraticLawyer
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@Deagonx @Elizio33 @Antvasima
I have a question regarding the Morrison/Snyder/Tynion DC cosmology. Currently, the Orrery is rated as 2-C for containing 52 universes and Hypertime as 2-A for containing infinite timelines. The Sphere of the Gods and Collective Unconscious, meanwhile, are rated as 2-C, with the rationale being that they exist on a plane of reality superior to the regular universes, but not by enough to warrant qualitative superiority. With this in mind, why don't the SOTG and CI scale to Hypertime's 2-A rating?
I have a question regarding the Morrison/Snyder/Tynion DC cosmology. Currently, the Orrery is rated as 2-C for containing 52 universes and Hypertime as 2-A for containing infinite timelines. The Sphere of the Gods and Collective Unconscious, meanwhile, are rated as 2-C, with the rationale being that they exist on a plane of reality superior to the regular universes, but not by enough to warrant qualitative superiority. With this in mind, why don't the SOTG and CI scale to Hypertime's 2-A rating?
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SOTG and CU are also a part of Hypertime. Hypertime > SOTG
IdiosyncraticLawyer
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Then I would advise we reformat the cosmology page to discuss Hypertime after the SOTG and CU. As it stands, it makes it look like Hypertime < SOTG when it's actually the opposite.
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I'm not necessarily opposed to that, but I will say that the order is not strictly hierarchical. The mention of Hypertime is placed immediately after the Orrery in order to explain the timeline situation promptly after explaining the universe situation. I am neutral.
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To clarify, we are talking about the hypertime that we see in the sixth dimension comic?
PrinceofPein
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If we can find a detailed post to add to it, I also do not mind.
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Doom Patrol Profiles and Flex Mentallo Upgrade
So I've worked on the sandboxes for all the members of the Doom Patrol, but I would like some input from you guys before they possibly end up getting deleted due to false ratings or wrong P&A. So here we go. And last but not least, And we are done, hope you had fun reading. If...
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For the record I'm trying to include only stuff he has without prep time as prep feats are less important since they aren't as useful in a VS thread
TimeTrapperFanBoy
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Random question, was Zero Hour a Low 2-C or 2-A event, I ask this because I’m reworking the Time Trapper on my sandbox.
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does it matter? He doesn't scale to it
TimeTrapperFanBoy
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I was thinking of adding the Entropy fissures as “Environmental Destruction” kinda how we have the Anti-Matter Wave for the Anti Monitor.
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I mean that seems fair.
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Does anyone know what level the feat from this thread would be now that DC has been downgraded?
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The Yassification of Tom King
IdiosyncraticLawyer
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About this, though...
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Hey, I just wanted to give my 2 cents on something. So I was looking over the recent staff discussion, and one of the herald feats was characters potentially scaling to the phantom zone. This was even considered one of the more "straightforward" feats among both supporters and dissidents, with the phantom zone having statements for being infinite in size. But honestly, I'm starting to disagree that it warrants high 3-A.
So, this is the statement for the phantom zone being infinite, and let me quote it verbatim.
One of the supporting evidences for high 3-A phantom zone is how it's described as an anti-universe, implying that it shares enough characteristics with a normal universe to warrant a distinction (likely universal size), but I think this statement suggests the opposite. When you combine that fact with how the phantom zone was stated to be "dimensionless," along with how it's called an "unregion," I think everything considered, the phantom zone is a spaceless, timeless void with no tierable value. These are just my thoughts, of course.
So, this is the statement for the phantom zone being infinite, and let me quote it verbatim.
So here's my major gripe. The whole point of feats on this wiki that deal with "infinite" anything is that characaters can scale to notions that span infinitely far, vast, or high. However, the phantom zone is described as an "unregion of infinitely compressed space." This seems like the opposite of spanning infinitely wide, no? If the phantom zone is infinitely compressed, that means that rather than its substance spanning infinite outwards, its space actually folds in on itself infinitely. Even googling "compressed space relativity," all I can find are articles about the fabric of space-time curving in on itself. I honestly don't think a realm being stated to be compressed infinitely holds the same connotations as this wiki's notions of high 3-A, which describes spaces that are infinitely expansive.
One of the supporting evidences for high 3-A phantom zone is how it's described as an anti-universe, implying that it shares enough characteristics with a normal universe to warrant a distinction (likely universal size), but I think this statement suggests the opposite. When you combine that fact with how the phantom zone was stated to be "dimensionless," along with how it's called an "unregion," I think everything considered, the phantom zone is a spaceless, timeless void with no tierable value. These are just my thoughts, of course.
IdiosyncraticLawyer
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@Emirp sumitpo What do you think about this?
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That's fine because we have a lot more statements of the Phantom Zone being infinite or near infinite:
Adventure Comics vol 2 (2009) #11 refers to it as Endless
Action comics #846 calls it endless
Action Comics Annual #11 calls it Endless
Action Comics Annual #12 calls it "Infinite"
In Superman vol 2 (1987) #214: For Tomorrow, Zod calls it Limitless
In Action comics #754, Superman describes it as "near infinite"
The Phantom Zone #1 (Pre-Crisis) calls it "Boundless"
Adventure Comics vol 2 (2009) #11 refers to it as Endless
Action comics #846 calls it endless
Action Comics Annual #11 calls it Endless
Action Comics Annual #12 calls it "Infinite"
In Superman vol 2 (1987) #214: For Tomorrow, Zod calls it Limitless
In Action comics #754, Superman describes it as "near infinite"
The Phantom Zone #1 (Pre-Crisis) calls it "Boundless"
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Does anyone know why The Writer was removed from this wiki?
IdiosyncraticLawyer
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Because, according to Ant, it was "borderline speculative fanfiction"; as far as I know, it doesn't appear in any comics, and its only basis for existing was an interview where Grant Morrison commented that he always imagined DC Comics as a tiny flaw someone drew on the Overvoid, which is far too flimsy for that "someone" to even have a profile at all, let alone to infer an all-powerful "Writer" who sees the Overvoid as fiction or any of its abilities.
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Here's another question I have: If the Overvoid contains all the stories in DC Comics, why isn't it on a higher tier and why isn't the cosmology bigger?
IdiosyncraticLawyer
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I don't understand. The Overvoid isn't on a higher tier because the things it transcends have a certain tier, so it has a tier equal to one layer above what it transcends.
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Well, yeah, but the Overvoid is supposed to hold all the stories together in the DC universe since it's the canvas of the whole background. Why isn't the cosmology bigger than 1-C in this case?
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Not to mention all the mathematical dimensions that were listed in this thread. What about those?
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The DC Multiverse and Mathematical Dimensions
http://static6.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_medium/11128/111288111/5223869-jla+v2+(2009)+-+page+89.jpg Darkseid speaks of 28 mathematical dimensions that the Sphere of the Gods encompasses. Keep in mind, this was in 2009, when the Multiverse obstensibly only contained 52 universes, so he could...
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It would only scale higher than the rest of DC if it contained the stories under an R>F degree of superiority. Even so, that would only be +1 level of infinity. If we had DC at 1-A for instance, that single R>F transcendence would only amount to a single extra layer into outer (keep in mind that we don't use CSAP's standards where R>F over 1-A is high 1-A rather than a single layer into 1-A). We have most of the higher echelons of DC cosmology in the 1-C ranges, so the Overvoid would be +1 dimensional at best. Viewing the rest of DC cosmology as a trivial flaw is just a single higher level of infinity, and doesn't account for the Infinity^Infinity^Infinity... ad infinitum gap required to go from 1-C to 1-A, or 1-A to high 1-A.
200,000 dimensional DC has been debunked for a while, they were just talking about parallel universes.Not to mention all the mathematical dimensions that were listed in this thread. What about those?
The DC Multiverse and Mathematical Dimensions
http://static6.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_medium/11128/111288111/5223869-jla+v2+(2009)+-+page+89.jpg Darkseid speaks of 28 mathematical dimensions that the Sphere of the Gods encompasses. Keep in mind, this was in 2009, when the Multiverse obstensibly only contained 52 universes, so he could...
Also, we don't use random higher dimensional scans unless they can be tied to a specific cosmology.
IdiosyncraticLawyer
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The whole point of the cosmology split is that because different authors have written irreconcilable interpretations of DC, powerscaling between the works of different authors is only considered valid if one can prove an explicit connection between their works. Without explicit evidence, a cosmology isn't allowed to scale to random scans.Not to mention all the mathematical dimensions that were listed in this thread. What about those?
The DC Multiverse and Mathematical Dimensions
http://static6.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_medium/11128/111288111/5223869-jla+v2+(2009)+-+page+89.jpg Darkseid speaks of 28 mathematical dimensions that the Sphere of the Gods encompasses. Keep in mind, this was in 2009, when the Multiverse obstensibly only contained 52 universes, so he could...
