General DC Comics Discussion Thread

[Emirp sumitpo]

Great darkness kinda lame ngl.

 

[Transcending]

He's kinda lame character-wise but power-wise he's like Top 1 rn

 

[XXKINGXX69]

Well damn The Great Darkness is going insane, destroying the entire Map, including the Source

THIS IS EASILY ONE OF THE BEST FEATS IN ALL OF DC, IF NOT THE BEST

Even random post crisis characters from 2003 have better feats than destroying the Source

 

[Greenshifter]

He's kinda lame character-wise but power-wise he's like Top 1 rn

No, I meant power-wise. Granted not that fodder, but he gets outclassed by Doom Patrol shit.

 

[Transcending]

Even random post crisis characters from 2003 have better feats than destroying the Source

Not just the Source, he was destroying the entire map and the Overvoid.

but he gets outclassed by Doom Patrol shit.

We will have to agree to disagree ig

 

[Recap_]

He's kinda lame character-wise but power-wise he's like Top 1 rn

Real

 

[Beyond_transcending]

Great darkness kinda lame ngl.

Yea. I want Anti-Monitor to slam him + his Dark Army.

 

[Kuuzo7]

This isn't true. How does stressing that the Overvoid and Source are some of the only things beyond the wall mean they're on the same plane of existence?

Maybe because the Void is the last plane of existence in the DC's cosmology.

This is supporting evidence, but not strong enough because there's 0 correlation.

Just saying something does not make you right. Better you elaborate more on what you are trying to articulate.

The Fifth Dimension is also beyond the Source,

Another headcanon, since until James Tynion IV and Scott Snyder's take on the DC Cosmology, the Fith Dmension was always treated as a higher-spatiotemporal dimension than the 3rd where come from the JL.
And even when James Tynion IV and Scott Snyder were in charge of the DC Cosmology, they still treated the Fifth Dimension as plane of existence "bounded" to the Multiverse

Imagination is the blood of the Multiverse.

Key words: Of.

• Of:

belonging or relating to someone or something

of

1. belonging or relating to someone or something: 2. used after words that…

dictionary.cambridge.org

Understanding the quote above, it's evident that the Fifth Dimension can't exist past the Source Wall considering the fact its existence is interwined with the cosmological strcture of the Multiverse, in opposition to the 6th dimension where "the Multiverse was designed and set in motion". Hence the fact that the fifth dimension was as well affected by the destruction of the Source Wall, which would not make sense at all if it existed beyond/oustide it.

Where did I claim it was? I agree that the Overvoid was officially introduced before FC.

That's where you also wrong, given the fact the Overvoid as a DC's character was not officially introduced before Final Crisis. Read twice.

Not that it matters, its not like the overvoid didn't exist until it was officially introduced

Again, you are arguing about two differents topics. A character can exist indepently of the release date if you apply presentism (considered as a fallacy for your information) that retcons all prior information of a verse. But that's not what I'm arguing, as I'm arguing on the fact when Mike Carey was writing Lucifer, the Overvoid as a character did not exist yet.

No writer was aware of such character in DC Comics, so saying "in that comic it treated the overvoid and the source as different things" shows a blatant lack of common sense. That's like expecting a Pre-Crisis writer to know about the Speed Force, when it's was only developped in Post-Crisis. This does hold not at all.

It doesn't even say that the Light is the thing that reached out to the great darkness' hand

"A compromise of near harmony"
A comprimise :

An agreement in an argument in which the people involved reduce their demands or change their opinion in order to agree:

compromise

1. an agreement in an argument in which the people involved reduce their…

dictionary.cambridge.org

Only the Light and the Great Darkness were involved regarding this "compromise", not other actors.

Yes its an illustration of God. Why is this relevant?

You tell me as you are the first one using it in the following subpoint:

I'm not talking about the dialogue, I'm talking about the fact that God, the pair of eyes in that page is just a part of that white void in the background.

Which I already adressed if you forgot:

"The pair of eyes" in your own words is merely an illustration to show the time when God became self-aware. Does not take a lot of mental gymnastics to understand this.

Where did you get "blended" from? And why does this mean he's one with the Void?

Read as much as you need to, because it's clear you don't even understand how your own point doesn't hold up.

 

[Emirp sumitpo]

Yea. I want Anti-Monitor to slam him + his Dark Army.

INB4 Reverse Flash is actually Great Darkness, giving us the ultimate "It was me, Barry"

 

[Beyond_transcending]

Read correctly, as you are completly off about my point. Yes, a claim can be used as an evidence, but only because it's obviously substianted by many others evidence. A claim in itself is not an evidence. Many characters claim to be "omnipotent", does not mean they have to be taken at face value.

As long as there's nothing contradicting it, it's valid. "Omnipotence" usually refer to "great power" not truly Omni. Plus, that statement is literally from the official Map, not from some character.

The Map of the Multiverse litteraly supports the case that the Overvoid and the Source exists on the same level of existence, not the otherwise.

No it do doesn't. It literally differentiated them, why do you think Grant added commas between Overvoid and Source?

Nice conjecture, now can you even prove a single evidence to support this. That's the hardest part.

I don't need to, it's a possibility.

The Source stated to be the center of all things predate the current DC's cosmology.

Not true, Source currently exists at the centre of Omniverse, as stated in Death Metal: Multiverse ends.

And as a matter of fact, The Spectre, Hyppolita, Metron, etc. and so on did not have to go at the center of all things to encounter the Source, as the Source is everywhere.

Everywhere throughout The Multiverse? Yeah

 

[Kuuzo7]

As long as there's nothing contradicting it, it's valid. "Omnipotence" usually refer to "great power" not truly Omni. Plus, that statement is literally from the official Map, not from some character.

Does not remotely address the fact that a claim can be taken as an evidence only because it's substianted by others evidence. Do better.

No it do doesn't. It literally differentiated them, why do you think Grant added commas between Overvoid and Source?

Adding "commas" does not even support that both characters does not exist in the same level of existence. This is called respecting the rules of punctuation. Grant Morrison was only lisiting the character's names who exist beyond the Source Wall. It's expected to see commas when a writer list a bunch of things. Grant Morrison writing instead: "the Monitor-mindthe Source and the unknowable" would expose basic mistakes in writting for a writter.

I don't need to, it's a possibility.

Appeal to possibility? LOL
That's all I needed to read. Mention me @ when you'll have a single evidence to support your made-up claim. Then you'll be taken seriously.

 

[Greenshifter]

Not just the Source, he was destroying the entire map and the Overvoid.

I doubt you can argue he targets the entire Overvoid based on this.

 

[Greenshifter]

Maybe because the Void is the last plane of existence in the DC's cosmology

That’s not true. Eonymous and Retconn are a thing. As well as the stuff in Unwritten.

 

[Transcending]

I doubt you can argue he targets the entire Overvoid based on this.

Why

 

[Greenshifter]

Why

Like there is stuff between the Overvoid and the source, like a lot of stuff and even if it were to leak into the Overvoid, it can still be insignificant to it.

 

[Transcending]

Like there is stuff between the Overvoid and the source, like a lot of stuff and even if it were to leak into the Overvoid, it can still be insignificant to it.

If you look closely, the Darkness was closing in on the Overvoid(you can see that by the Overvoid's border) and its "lightning" like stuff also reached it

 

[Beyond_transcending]

That’s not true. Eonymous and Retconn are a thing. As well as the stuff in Unwritten.

Unwritten isn't canon.

 

[Kuuzo7]

That’s not true. Eonymous and Retconn are a thing. As well as the stuff in Unwritten.

They are still exist within the Overvoid.
Nice try.

 

[XXKINGXX69]

Unwritten isn't canon.

It is

 

[Greenshifter]

If you look closely, the Darkness was closing in on the Overvoid(you can see that by the Overvoid's border) and its "lightning" like stuff also reached it

Could still be insignificant or just the Overvoid not being on that map.

Unwritten isn't canon.

Strikethrough even though you’re wrong.

They are still exist within the Overvoid.
Nice try.

No lol, Retconn literally streams stories on the Overvoid for the Eonymous to watch. The coffee stain also extended to the white part of the map which is clearer than the Great Darkness stuff.

 

[Transcending]

Also why is Captain Atom Low 1-C

Captain Atom (Post-Crisis)

During the Vietnam War, Nathaniel Christopher Adam served in the United States Air Force. Under the watchful eye of Col. Wade Eiling, he was framed for a crime he didn't commit and condemned to death in 1968. He was offered the option to engage in a military experiment with a slim chance of...

vsbattles.fandom.com

 

[LordTracer]

Also why is Captain Atom Low 1-C

Captain Atom (Post-Crisis)

During the Vietnam War, Nathaniel Christopher Adam served in the United States Air Force. Under the watchful eye of Col. Wade Eiling, he was framed for a crime he didn't commit and condemned to death in 1968. He was offered the option to engage in a military experiment with a slim chance of...

vsbattles.fandom.com

Because he scales fo Nekron. Like his profile says

 

[Transcending]

Because he scales fo Nekron. Like his profile says

Nekron isn't Low 1-C tho

 

[Transcending]

Wait he is, mb

 

[Transcending]

I talked with @Xearsay and he told me this-

There’s a misconception in that discussion. Allen Adam isn’t just comparing our universe physically exist to a comic book. He’s comparing how our universe appears from a higher dimensional perspective to how 2-D existence in a comic book appears to a 3-D being. And 2-D existence in a comic book isn’t real to us.

 

[EndlessWords]

Michael creating the concept of space isn't 1-A for the last time. I mean if he created the concept of space in a low 1-a cosmology then he would be ig

I still don't understand why he limits his NLF to tier 1-A only

 

[EndlessWords]

This is debunked by logic

Your "logic" is not taken into account by the tiering system.
Otherwise I ask you again to quote a sentence from the tiering system which says that the concept of space is automatically 1-A.

One argument based on a strawman and the second based on a illogical reasoning.
Two wrongs does not make your right.

Sentences like that still don't help me understand why you equate the concept of space with tier 1-A.

The same fallacy again already debunked.
A character of a higher tier, e.g planet, is logically "above" anything of lower tiers than his own. That's called common sense, again.

In your example the planet level character actually is, whereas here you still haven't proved why Michael would be 1-A using the actual prerequisites written on the tiering system page.

Keep going on asking the same silly question that I already adressed and exposed the absurdity of it: a n-dimensional character can't create/destroy spaces that are obviously beyond his (extra)dimensionality. Otherwise, the character would be on the same level of the space he wants to create/destroy, not from a much lower tier. The same way by using my first exmple above, you can't expect a planet level character to create/destroy a sun, galaxy or universe. Otherwise, the character has never been planet level in the first place.

Nobody said that a character can destroy spaces beyond his dimensionality, I don't know why you say that.

What's that kind of gibberish again. Obviously space itself was created , and, as result of it, a space in which n-dimensional beings are inhabiting it. Michael set forth the "Big Bang" from which an absoulte space and time came into existence within the aspatiotemporal Void, while Lucifer shaped this Creation as anoyone can read it in Lucifer #16.

In this case you must place Michael one layer above the spaces he created and not invent spaces that do not really exist in his cosmology.

If in his cosmology there are low 1-C spaces, then Michael should be one layer above. If in the cosmology there are high 1-C spaces, then Michael should be a layer above. If in the cosmology there are 1-B spaces, then Mickael should be a layer above. The concept of space does not encompass aleph_1 number of spatial dimensions by default.

Given the fact that the Void, as it has been "interpreted" in this series, can't be bound by space and time by logically decedcing from the scan below.

"Not being bound by space and time" does not mean that this "layer" is 1-A.
In fiction a 1-B layer can "not be bound by space and time" and the 1-B layer above it can then be.

Currently the 1-A tier concerns an aleph_2 number of transcendent spatial dimensions or planes of existence and has nothing to do with the concept of space or the lack of it.

Thanks to further admitt that a "transcendant" character can't be "extradimensional". The fact that you are bringing your own point that was not initial mine on the fact that "A character truly beyond the concept of space would not only be untied from a certain infinite set of spatial dimensions" does not debunk my point they do transcend this "infinite set of spatial of dimensions", far from the contrary, you are only supporting my words. And it does not nor debunk the fact that this same " infinite set of spatial of dimensions" is what's commonly used in most fictional settings that distinguish characters who are dimensional/extradimansional from characters who are beyond any dimension/transcendant.

What I have said does not validate anything you have said.

I literally said that it makes no sense to take that kind of statement and try to automatically equate it with Tier 1-A. Tier 0 characters are always bound by space and you should understand that no character literally transcends the concept of space or at least that would be unquantifiable.

Every statement about the concept of space has to be analysed on a case by case basis and scale to the size of the cosmology, you cannot arbitrarily decide that the concept of space is necessarily 1-A.

If you did not understand the point, the only way for DC characters to be subject to "any higher dimensional additions", or, in other words, any cosmological changes is if they are coming from the Bleed, for the simple reason that external planes such as the Sphere of the Gods are un affected by such changes and instead see all the events taking place below in the multiverse from an external point of view. Like I said on this matter

So you're saying that the Sphere of Gods is 1-A?
Do you have a statement that explicitly says that the Sphere of the Gods will always be above any addition of higher layers?

Logic says otherwise.

Logic does not say that the concept of space encompasses an aleph_1 number of spatial dimensions.
You can easily end this debate, show me a quote from the tiering system that says the concept of space is 1-A.

Obviously "all characters 1-A and above" can create/destroy an 1-A structure, I was waiting for you to give at least a dimensional character (1-d up to infinite dimensional) who can do likewise. This starting to be a joke.

ALL CHARACTERS 1-A AND ABOVE ARE DIMENSIONAL.
Explain to me why you arbitrarily limit dimensionality to infinite-D, why would a character with more dimensions than infinite-D no longer be dimensional?

 

[LordGriffin1000]

Here's my Larfleeze Rework thread if any of you are interested! Boy needs it.

https://vsbattles.com/threads/dc-comics-larfleeze-rework-mine-mine-mine.143202/

 

[Antvasima]

This is not a content revision thread, and it has been derailed to an extreme degree.

Somebody should probably delete all of the derailing posts here.

 

[Vondoom]

Isn't this a general discussion thread about anything related to DC?

 

[Antvasima]

I think that it is intended to be used for politely discussing recent DC Comics stories and post links to new content revision thread or more "important" versus threads, not for trying to push revisions in itself.

 

[Vondoom]

I checked and that's what discussion threads are for, people use them as base before pushing for the main revisions as seen in the Black clover,Bleach and other discussion threads even god of highschool.

 

[Antvasima]

Well, it seems like if this argument continues, it will drown out everything else here, and not lead anywhere anyway.

 

[LordGriffin1000]

Does anyone plan on reworking Post Crisis Atrocitus? I don't want to start it and then someone else is already doing it.

 

[LordTracer]

I don’t think anyone’s working on him, feel free to go for it.

 

[Vondoom]

Preview of dark crisis #6, Raven vs Spectre is a must see.
Both currently are connected to the darkness

 

[Antvasima]

This is not a content revision thread, and it has been derailed to an extreme degree.

Somebody should probably delete all of the derailing posts here.

So should I or somebody else delete the derailment messages, or should we just continue discussing events and posting thread links as usual?

 

[Emirp sumitpo]

I'd say go ahead and delete it. If they wanna continue their convo, do it in a CRT or somewhere else

 

[Antvasima]

Okay. I have limited time available though. Would you be willing to handle it please?

 

[Emirp sumitpo]

Ok. Though I should note I haven't been fully keeping with the convo tho.