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General DC Comics Discussion Thread

XXKINGXX69 said:
Here
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"A fourth (or higher) spatial (or non-spatial) dimension."

Glad we settled that.
 
XXKINGXX69 said:
That's talking about how some science fiction stories use it
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Dimensions usually refer to alternate dimensions and planes of existences in respect to science fiction, but that doesn’t mean it’s exclusive to that type of fiction (for example, DC Comics itself (which is arguably science fiction in some regards anyways)).

XXKINGXX69 said:
That's not what it actually means.
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What the term Dimension “actually means” entirely depends on how a work of fiction utilizes the concept. “Higher dimension” does not automatically refer to spatial dimensions.
XXKINGXX69 said:
It explains what a higher dimension is, basically another axis, which is used for spatial dimensions
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Why are we to assume that this definition of dimension applies to Nil when it obviously doesn’t? Characters who do not possess higher dimensional characteristics have been to Nil, and Vice Versa.
 
Swerzye29038 said:
Dimensions usually refer to alternate dimensions and planes of existences in respect to science fiction, but that doesn’t mean it’s exclusive to that type of fiction (for example, DC Comics itself (which is arguably science fiction in some regards anyways)).


What the term Dimension “actually means” entirely depends on how a work of fiction utilizes the concept. “Higher dimension” does not automatically refer to spatial dimensions.

Why are we to assume that this definition of dimension applies to Nil when it obviously doesn’t? Characters who do not possess higher dimensional characteristics have been to Nil, and Vice Versa.
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I just gave evidence of higher dimensions meaning spatial dimensions

Where did I say anything about Nil? You don't need to be higher dimensional to exist in a higher dimension. A 2D object can be contained within a 3D object for example
 
naww i fr think we should do a cosmology without the split and a cosmology with the split. that would be so cooool
 
In Morrison's stories, the Monitors are thoughts of Monitor-Mind The Overvoid while in Snyder's stories they are splinters of Mar Novu.
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I guess the universe being a part of the multiverse and the overvoid is a contradiction

In Morrison's stories, the Monitor and the Anti-Monitor were created by the Overvoid as the "conflict generator" while in Snyder's stories, they were created by Perpetua.
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It says that Perpetua created them using the Overvoid, which is just evidence the cosmology is consistent between different writers

In Morrison's stories, the Monitor Sphere is the thoughts of the Overvoid while in Snyder's stories it was made from the Multiverse's current structure.
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The multiverse is a part of the overvoid, not a contradiction

In DeMatteis' stories the entirety of existence is part of a dream made by the Divine Presence while in Morrison's stories someone has drawn existence onto Monitor-Mind against its will.
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Creation myths, plus there are multiple definitions to existence. He's also using an author statement which is contradicted by the comics

In Gaiman/Carey's stories, the Presence created the DC Universe and Michael Demiurgos' demiurgic power made the first matter and Lucifer Morningstar's will shaped it into all suns while in Snyder's stories, Perpetua made the DC Multiverse from the energies provided by the Source and Alpheus created every universe within it.
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There can be multiple creation myths

In the Gaiman/Carey stories all gods were created from Dream of the Endless through the power of dreams and beliefs, while in the Snyder stories they were created from Hecate's Collective Unconscious.
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This is just evidence that the Dreaming is a part of the collective unconscious

Although quite similar, God's demiurgic power used to create the Cosmos in Gaiman/Carey stories seems to be replaced by Anti-Crisis Energy and Crisis Energy in Scott Snyder stories as the creative forces of the Cosmos and relates to memory and history.
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Yeah giving more context to something is totally replacing a concept with something entirely new

In Scott Snyder stories, there are infinite Multiverses in the Void beyond the main one, while in Gaiman/Carey's stories there were three Creations, those of the Presence, Lucifer and Elaine Belloc, which were later combined into one when Elaine replaced the Presence.
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Fax, its not possible to have at least 3 creations and infinite creations in total

Will continue with the rest later
 
XXKINGXX69 said:
I just gave evidence of higher dimensions meaning spatial dimensions
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No one is confused about the fact that "higher dimension" sometimes means spatial dimension, but it doesn't automatically mean that. Your own "evidence" says otherwise. Nil was called a higher dimension, but isn't a spatial dimension.
 
Deagonx said:
No one is confused about the fact that "higher dimension" sometimes means spatial dimension, but it doesn't automatically mean that. Your own "evidence" says otherwise. Nil was called a higher dimension, but isn't a spatial dimension.
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So? Quantum Superman could have been wrong
 
XXKINGXX69 said:
So? Quantum Superman could have been wrong
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You're missing the point. The fact that "higher dimension" is used for non spatial dimensions means we will not assume by default that higher means spatial. And linking to a Wikipedia page about physics based dimensions isn't going to change that.
 
Deagonx said:
No one is confused about the fact that "higher dimension" sometimes means spatial dimension, but it doesn't automatically mean that. Your own "evidence" says otherwise. Nil was called a higher dimension, but isn't a spatial dimension.
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What do you think Sena referred to when she mentioned dimensions
 
In Morrison's stories the Overvoid is the non-dual abstract consciousness that underlies everything and nothing is outside of it except "us" while in Joshua's stories the Great Darkness predates and encompasses the Overvoid, now called the Light, and both are opposite forces.
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New information isn't necessarily a retcon, so this wouldn't be a contradiction. This is also using an author statement for Morrison, so the comic takes precedence

In Morrison's stories, Empty Hand and the Gentry are Earth-33 pulp fictions, thus being fifth-dimensional, and are the destroyers of Multiverse-2 while in Joshua's stories, Empty Hand is an avatar of the Great Darkness and the Gentry come from the remnants of the Pre-Crisis Multiverse and are not the destroyers of Multiverse-2.
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It didn't say anywhere that he wasn't the destroyer of multiverse-2 in Joshua's stories, and the thing about pulp-fictions and earth-33 shit isn't a contradiction

In Morrison's stories the Monitor and the Anti-Monitor were created by Monitor-Mind while in Joshua's stories Mar Novu was created by the Light and the Anti-Monitor was created by the Great Darkness.
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I doubt its stated anywhere that the Great Darkness actually created the anti monitor

In Snyder's stories, Perpetua was the cause of all Crisis events, while in Joshua's stories, they were caused by the Great Darkness.
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This mf thinks only 1 person can be the cause of all Crisis events? I guess Joshua's cosmology is incompatible with Joshua's cosmology because in Joshua's story the anti-monitor and the great darkness were the cause of the first crisis

In Snyder's stories, Dr. Manhattan attempted to undo the damage made in the Multiverse due to the Crisis events, but did not have the desired effects, while in Joshua's stories, Dr. Manhattan was acting under the influence of the Great Darkness.
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New information, not a contradiction

In Snyder's stories, the Great Darkness is/resides in the Dark Sphere of the Gods that surrounds the Dark Multiverse and is a sliver of the Upside Down Man's power while in Joshua's stories, it is the dark Void that predates God and all Creation, with the Upside Down Man being one of its Avatars.
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No contradictions here
 
Deagonx said:
You're missing the point. The fact that "higher dimension" is used for non spatial dimensions means we will not assume by default that higher means spatial. And linking to a Wikipedia page about physics based dimensions isn't going to change that.
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Ah yes the fact 1 person used the term spatial dimension wrong means all instances of higher dimension cannot mean spatial dimension, makes total sense. Him using it wrong just changes the entire definition of "higher dimension" in all of DC comics
 
XXKINGXX69 said:
Ah yes the fact 1 person used the term spatial dimension wrong means all instances of higher dimension cannot mean spatial dimension, makes total sense
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No one said it "can't mean" spatial. We just don't assume the meaning is spatial without actual evidence.
 
Deagonx said:
No one said it "can't mean" spatial. We just don't assume the meaning is spatial without actual evidence.
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The evidence is that its the default assumption since that's what higher dimension means. Even if what you're saying is true, there's still other reasons
 
XXKINGXX69 said:
I just gave evidence of higher dimensions meaning spatial dimensions
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Maybe we have a misunderstanding here. Just because "higher dimension" could be referring to a higher spatial dimension doesn't mean that it is referring to that thing. This has already been explained.
XXKINGXX69 said:
Where did I say anything about Nil?
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Were you and another user not discussing the time when Captain Adam sent Superman to Nil?
XXKINGXX69 said:
You don't need to be higher dimensional to exist in a higher dimension.
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I never said that lower dimensional beings can't exist in higher dimensions.
 
Thank you. I will check.
 
Vondoom said:
does Morrison map only refers to his cosmology or all of DC past and present?
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The map was designed to incorporate the vast DC history into something cohesive, despite all of its completely disjointed concepts.
 
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