• This forum is strictly intended to be used by members of the VS Battles wiki. Please only register if you have an autoconfirmed account there, as otherwise your registration will be rejected. If you have already registered once, do not do so again, and contact Antvasima if you encounter any problems.

    For instructions regarding the exact procedure to sign up to this forum, please click here.
  • We need Patreon donations for this forum to have all of its running costs financially secured.

    Community members who help us out will receive badges that give them several different benefits, including the removal of all advertisements in this forum, but donations from non-members are also extremely appreciated.

    Please click here for further information, or here to directly visit our Patreon donations page.
  • Please click here for information about a large petition to help children in need.

Game & Watch and Legend of Zelda

Saikou_The_Lewd_King

Saikou_The_Lewd_King

The King of all Things Lewd
VS Battles
Retired
15,407
5,717
Alright y'allwhom'st

The "Legend of Zelda" Game & Watch game seems to be part of the Legend of Zelda series. While its canonicity is debatable, it shouldn't matter agains this fact: This game's Triforce, Link, Zelda and whatever would likely have the same power as always. We did this before with scaling non-canon content to canon feats.

However, then we have Mr. Game & Watch. Despite the guy being a composite of all G&W games protagonists, for some reasons we do not apply G&W Link's statistics to Mr. G&W himself. Which makes no sense.

To put things in context, Game & Watch ISN'T a "usual" verse. It was more like a system, with several franchises having installements on it. So there is no cross-verse scaling here. It's just a ambiguously canon Link obtaining the Triforce. There shouldn't be any differences to regular scaling to non-canon sources here.

Now here comes Mr. Game & Watch. His first (and thus, strangely, canon) depiction is his Smash one. By Smash's definition, Mr. Game & Watch is the protagonist of every Game & Watch games. We see by his moveset that this includes games that starred others characters than nameless generic protagonists, including Mario.

By that definition, Mr. G&W is the composite of every Game & Watch games protagonist. He isn't a "regular" character. So he shouldn't be subject to limitations regarding cross-verse scaling. It's either that we do not scale Link (G&W) to the LoZ stats or we scale Mr. G&W's composite key to Link's own stats. We can't have Link (G&W) scaled to the LoZ stats without having Mr. Game & Watch scaled to them too.
 
To add more onto it, we uses a similar logic for Mickey Mouse. A composite character with no distinctive canon being scaled to one of its incarnation being on part with another series he isn't native to. In Mickey's case, he is being scaled to KH. G&W would just be scaled to LoZ.
 
We shouldn't scale via crossover (currently there is an exception for Smash, but that's because it has its own feats and character variations / pages.)

Hence, why not just scale Triforce G&W to the feats presented in that game?
 
Except that this isn't a crossover. This is literally just another Zelda game. There is no character other than Zelda ones being present here. There is no reasons this game should be weaker than the main series (even if it's non-canon, the canon games should still apply to it).
 
How is it not a crossover? Even you point out that Game and Watch in Smash is referred to as the protagonist of every one of the games, which, would mean that "Link" is really just a Game and Watch variation. Examples of similar things would be like Samurai Quack (Fusion of Samurai Jack and Daffy), the entire Marvel x DC character verse, and etc.

Also, if it's non-canon, it means that it doesn't generally scale. (Ie DBGT isn't 3-A because of Super and etc), especially when it doesn't even have a place in the timeline.
 
A non-cannon source has now a composite of all the otherwise unrelated protagonists of those games doesn't change the original source material. This only affect Mr. Game & Watch as he is a creation of Smash, but this retcon doesn't affect the original Game & Watch games.

We don't because GT branches from DBS. But DBGT stats are still based on the canon source. Much like how most Pokémon media still uses the game as a source for its stats.
 
This isn't a retcon, technically it's just Nintendo shedding light on the "story" of Mr.Game and Watch.

Yes, because canonically, DBGT has DBZ as part of their canon and the game media is the primary canon. Mr. Game and Watch's LoZ game, does not have that.
 
And Mr. Game & Watch wasn't a thing before Smash. This is a Smash-only character that only has been retroactively associated with the Game & Watch protagonist. So Nintendo "shedding light" on his history shouldn't affect the originals again.

And that game was still meant to be part of the series, even if the main series doesn't include it. It's like the game that doesn't follow the canon of the manga, but the manga still gets the feats because it's based on it. Same here.
 
"And that game was still meant to be part of the series, even if the main series doesn't include it."

Need to ask where you got that evidence because from what I see, this would be like scaling manga Majora's Mask Link to game Majora's Mask Link. Unless it, in its own story references the events of previous canon story (and no having the same characters [Unless said characters are only in one specfic story] is not enough).
 
Except that LoZ Game & Watch isn't a retelling of any story. We still use primary canon to scale to secondary or just non-canon stuff unless it's a complete re-telling of the story like DBGT. It being labelled as being part of Legend of Zelda is proof enough.
 
Okay, I guess another example then would be Pokken or Reburst to the main Pokemon canon. Again, GT has its own canonicity that revolves around the events of DBZ, we don't know if that's the case with G&W.
 
I have no idea why we don't scale Re;Burts to regular Pokémon honestly. And you can't exactly use Pokken here, since its only feats are higher than canon ones.

There is no reasons it wouldn't. LoZ just has tons of games with their own seperate story. G&W here wouldn't be different here.
 
It's probably because they are shown to significantly weaker than their normal counterparts. Uh, yes I can, the point was to show differences?

You're right, but at that point it is speculation, especially considering the time of its release was prior to the whole separate stories and etc.
 
Don't they have like no feats? Lack of feats isn't really a showing of weakness.

It doesn't have anything to do with stuff we talk here though. My point is that canon stats should applies to non-canon stuff.

Time of release shouldn't have any relation to a series power scaling.
 
Oh no, they have feats. Most of which Building level. And being comparable to building level Pokemon. Etc

No it has all the points, if we applied canon stats to that non-canon piece of fiction, we would have a 5-A outlier instead, 4-B basic level characters in GT, and 6-B Darkrai instead of non-canon Low 2-C.
 
Pretty sure that GT is 4-A because all the 4-A feats are anime only. I doubt it would have beene 4-B.

Also, don't we have the non-canon Hyrule Warrior scaled to the main feats too?
 
Yes because it is connected to the anime, rather than the source, showing that non-canon are not automatically connected to canon.

Idk, nor do I know much of the canoncity of it. Although other examples I could think of that fit what I'm saying is Super Mario-Kun, Metroid Prime 2 Episode of Aether, that one version of DMC Dante
 
Except that those tend to be completely seperate continuinty that cuts off any links to the original, sometimes via re-telling the events. Super Mario Kun being a different canon altogether from what I've seen and DMC Dante being a literal reboot. Those aren't comparable to this case, which just seems to be yet another link re-incarnation. It isn't any retelling, reboot or otherwise of a already pre-existing realm.
 
And where is the link, unlike these, that this game has?

"Super Mario Kun being a different canon altogether" <.... Uh, yeah, he's non-canon to the main source. Think about that for a second.

I was talking about the other, other DMC Dante, that appeared in a similar game to the G&W LoZ.
 
I think that we would rather need proof that it's completely seperate canon rather than being an "addition" to the series.

There is a difference between a non-canon story of the main canon and another installement that completely ignores and re-work the pre-existing canon. And again, Hyrule Warrior is there.
 
You can't disprove a negative like that. For example, I had to prove S&J was canon to Metroid, Madoka PSP to Madoka, and etc, especially when these cases are extremely debatable.

And again, idk much about Hyrule Warriors. Once again, I'm pointing out literally every other example I brought already, which far exceed your examples in quantity.
 
Except that I still gave you examples of the opposite happening, even in the same verse we are debating. It's not a matter of posting a lot of examples.

Again, I think that we should only discard the feats of the main canon if the verse is portrayed as completely seperate. Examples would be any reboot, most cartoon/manga/anime version of other materials and remakes.

Especially in the case of Zelda, where new stories are very often considered still part of the verse but dealing with other characters. Objects and characters that exists across all of the timeline as the same (Such as the Triforce) would most likely keep their power even in non-canon material.
 
Anyway, this falls under the ambiguously canon category, like the BS games (yes that's actually what it's called) and the Tingle games.
 
Yeah it's the kind of game that was made and official approved but that just kind of got forgotten by everyone so it's in a limbo.

But even outright non-canon stuff gets scaling from the main series games, so... Unless said non-canon game completely contradict canon, this shouldn't be any different.
 
@Saikou you gave me a example, where as I showed you countless more. We don't know the details behind the scaling in Hyrule Warriors, but since @Cal, you're here, can you answer that.

Again, Saikou, the only times that non-canon stuff should be scaled is if they had the same events happen in the past or future in respective to the non-canon's own canonicity. We don't know that, thus it shouldn't scale.
 
I could give you more, but this wouldn't get us anywhere here.

This story doesn't seem to be contradicting the main canon though. This case is ambiguous, so we shouldn't outright discard canon stats, especially since this is common in the Zelda series.
 
I'd rather not touch these G&W Zelda profiles until we fix them. Because we are clearly still contradicted here (Mr. Game & Watch not having keys for his Zelda incarnation for example). SD just seems to have had a heart attack mid-debate.
 
? That's just the area you calculated here. Even then, pretty sure the dragon isn't a square.
 
I personally think that SomebodyData makes sense in that we shouldn't scale from crossovers. We even have a rule against it.

The Game & Watch character can only scale from feats performed in the Game & Watch games themselves.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

Dust_Collector
  • Locked
Hylia High 6-B Upgrade (And by extension SS Link, Demise, and Ghirahim)
Replies
23
Views
1K
DarkDragonMedeus
DarkDragonMedeus
Dust_Collector
The Legend Zelda: Planet Busting Edition
2 3
Replies
93
Views
4K
Chariot190
Chariot190
CloverDragon03
Gotta Revise 'Em All, Part 2 (Clover Edition): Mainline Game Scaling
2 3
Replies
100
Views
5K
koopa3144
koopa3144
Hyrule Warriors mid tier upgrades
Replies
17
Views
2K
y3p_owo
y3p_owo
CloverDragon03
  • Locked
Sonic the Hedgehog CRT: Super Form Speed with a Side of Perfect Dark Gaia
2
Replies
59
Views
4K
CloverDragon03
CloverDragon03
Back
Top