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Galbatorix vs Ainz Ooal Gown

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The suicide attack itself was calc'd to Mountain level IIRC. The Large Island level rating comes from the fact that said attack was done in 'base' with none of his Eldunari amping his powers. (I believe)

EDIT: Large Mountain level, actually.
 
It comes from Eragon with his inferior "power level", defending both himself and others point blank from that attack with his own Eldurnari, when Gal has way more and way more powerful Eldurnari
 
Oh, I misunderstood the rating in the profile, then.

Okay.
 
Well...

If you've been considering this entire battle as Gal without the Eldurnari... you want to rethink it?
 
Monarch Laciel said:
He's only as powerful as he is because of all those Eldurnari. They are considered his standard equipment
Take them away, and he's 9-B

Not exactly a fair fight at that point
Click to expand...
Not entirely true. All powerful magicians in Inheritance cycle store up their energy in their weapons. Brom with 15 years worth of energy in his ring had enough for a High 8-B (possibly 8-A) attack. Galbatorix would have had 100+ years to store up his energy. In around 100 years, Oromis and two other elves had managed to store enough energy in his sword's gems to move a mountain. Galbatorix without any Eldunari would easily scale to that kind of power
 
@Roy Gundam Moving a mountain was probably hyperbole, but yes, Galbatorix likely has gems storing energy that he's siphoned from the Eldurnari over the years. So with only those maybe he's more than 9-B

But we can't get an exact value.

And that would be the energy for a single attack. Eldurnari regenerate energy naturally, gems do not. A single attack of 7-A power followed by only 9-B is just as much as stomp as only being able to use the High 6-C as a suicide attack

And there's a huge difference in power between 9-B and 7-A.
 
I think we can reliably put a lower limit of 8-A, given the amount of power Brom did store in his ring
 
Still mean 8-A with a single attack, then 9-B again. But we actually have no idea if Gal even did store energy in gems. With his connection to the Eldurnari, he might have thought it unnecessary. We can't add it when we don't know for sure
 
As a side note, Ainz is not restricted by Name of Names. He can use any spell or ability without speaking, it's just that it was common in Yggdrasil to sound out your attacks so your teammates know what you're doing, so Ainz has a habit of doing it. Not that it's likely to effect the outcome of this fight, but FYI.
 
The Name of Names controls the language of magic. As long as it requires language to use, the Name of Names can control and negate it. All of Ainz's spells have names, even if he doesn't need to speak them.

Yygrdrasil game mechanics screw him over here. If the spells were just spells without names he'd be fine. But when each spell has a name like "Grasp Heart" and "The Goal of All Life is Death" and "Reality Slash", whether or not the spell's name is spoken when it is cast, it can be affected, controlled, and negated by the Name of Names
 
So I guess I'll just present all my arguments at once.

- Name of Names negates any spell of Ainz's that has a name, regardless of whether or not it is verbally spoke. That's like, 99% of them. Ainz could theoretically still use the magic from items as long as that magic does not itself have a name. For instance, Ainz using the Guild Staff to cast Summon Primal Fire Elemental (I think he used the staff, but even if he didn't this is just an example) would not work, but Ainz swinging some "Sword of Flame - Effect: shoots a wave of fire when swung") would work, because the effect of shooting a blast of fire is not named.

- Galbatorix can simply say the word "Jierda" (break) and cause Ainz's bones to shatter, or say the word "Thrysta" (compress) and cause Ainz to implode, and with his High 6-C power, he can do this extremely easily.

- Galbatorix's wards against death words prevent Grasp Heart from working, either its insta-death function or its stun. Grasp Heart is Ainz's favourite spell and what he would use first. Its failure to work at all would surprise Ainz and give Gal the time he needs to kill him (i.e., the time to say one word).

- Galbatorix's other wards are layered deeply enough that effectively no physical effect, and several non-physical effects can do anything to him. This includes burning, stabbing, explosions, telekinetic effects, sleep inducement, radiation, clairvoyance, etc. The vast majority of Ainz's spell will be outright ignored.

- Angela, who has a qualitatively better time stop than Ainz's time stop (because she can actually attack from within it), stated it would be useless against Galbatorix. So I don't see Ainz's time stop doing much.

- Galbatorix's mind hax is well beyond anything seen in the Overlord verse, and so it is complete NLF to say that Ainz's undead status can protect him from having his mind crushed by hundreds of insane dragons at once (each of whom is capable of mind haxing an army of people who are themselves protected from mind hax by strong psychics). Mind hax is also the first thing Gal does in character.

- Adding onto that last point, Gal can drain the energy from any being he enters the mind of. So attempting to overwhelm him with an army of summons will not only be fodderised, but Gal can also draw from their power to kill them and rejuvenate himself.

Cool, done
 
Welp, that changes my vote. Switch me over to Galbatorix for Monarch's reasons.
 
@monarch

1) That's an NFL and the name of names only negates spells cast through a magical language; Ainz doen't need to use any form of language to cast most of his spells.

2) Ainz is immune to necromancy and bone manip falls under necromancy in his verse.

3) Ainz can resurrect himself so that won't exactly stick. IC Ainz would teleport away immediately if grasp heart didn't work (Ainz is also slightly faster from what i recall, but i could be wrong).

4) Ainz's is also able to ignore most of Galbatorix's spells.

5) Not a problem since time stop immunity was apparently very common in Yiggdrasill's pvp.

6) False and also an NFL. 'Downfall of castle and country' negates mind hax immunity and mind controls the victim and the mind hax of Galbatorix and his pets (mostly his pets) has been defended against by the sufficiantly prepared. Ainz aready has a defense, one which i don't think Galbatorix and co have encountered.

7) Isn't Ainz immune to energy drain? and even if he isn't the negative energy animating him is like poison to the living so draining him would be a bad idea.
 
Jierda isn't 'bone manipulation', or even specific to bones in any way. It's basically just the Force Push of the Inheritance universe. Even then, I don't see an argument for Thrysta, so that's still on the table.

Also, I believe the 'energy drain' argument was made in regards to Ainz's summons, not Ainz himself.
 
If those summons are undead (which is likely) my argument would still apply since immunity to energy drain and negative energy are common to all undead.
 
"Immunity to Poison, Disease, Sleep, Paralysis, Physical Impediment, Necromancy, Energy Drain, and Mind Manipulation"

Thrysta, Letta or Jierda would still work. And as said above: Ainz has never seen mind attacks on a level comparable to Galbatorix.
 
You forgot his defensive spells like 'body of effergent beryl' and the fact that he is undead (Galbatorix has never fought a skeleton before).

They would but then so would 'goal of all life is death' + any of Ainz's instant death spells and reality slash (since weponised space manip doen't exist in Inheritance and even if it does no one ever tried it on Galbatorix because they though he was invincible). And is i mentioned above Ainz has seen a mind attack surpassing Galbatorix's level since it negates the undead's passive immunity to mind manip and Galbatorix can only negate active mental defences.
 
@Delta

There is nothing in the Overlord verse that comes close to the level of mind hax that Gal has. Your argument is nothing more than hiding behind Ainz's so called "immunity" to mind manip, which is a massive NLF in itself. Negating resistances to mind manip is not comparable to actual stronger mind manip. If I negate your resistances to mind manip, I can control you with simple hypnosis, and hypnosis is in no way comparable to having hundreds of insane dragons crash into your mind. In fact, Downfall could only control a single character in Overlord, while Gal's mind hax can crush multiple armies of people resistant to mind hax at once.

As King said, spells like Thrystra and Jierda are not bone manip, they are telekinesis.

Ainz's energy drain isn't a "drain" so much either. Its more like once he is in your mind, he can force you to give him your energy.

All of Gal's spells have a higher AP than Ainz's defence. They will break through his durability easily.

"Ainz immediately teleports away if Grasp Heart doesn't work" - A) speed is equalised, and B) in the time it takes Ainz to say "Grasp Heart" and "Teleport", Gal says "Jierda" and shatters Ainz to pieces, or doesn't even speak at all and just mind haxes Ainz into being either his loyal slave, or his vegetative skeleton pet.

If I remember correctly, Ainz only has one resurrection item on him. Once it's used, it's gone. And it won't help if he's mind-haxed

Ainz only prepared himself with spells like BoEB when he had a massive amount of prep time before hand. He's being thrown into a one on one fight. You really think Gal is going to give him any opportunity to start casting wards on himself?

And no, the Name of Names controls the language of magic. Any magic that requires language, that has its spell with a name can be negated. This is clearly shown when Gal uses it. Eragon can't cast any spells with the ancient language, even when he tries to cast them non-verbally. It is only when he uses a raw, unfiltered, instrinctual magic completely disconnected from language caused simply by him trying desperately to communicate and make Gal understand, that it worked. None of Ainz's spells are raw instrinctual magic. They are all set spells, with set names. They all get negated.

Eragon has a spatial manipulation cutter. It was a tiny point located behind him, and was warned against because it would cut through anything it passed through. Despite this, using it against Galbatorix never came into his, or the people who taught him the spell, minds, because of Gal's wards

And finally

"Gal has never fought a skeleton before". This isn't even a point.

"Oh no, this person appears to be a skeleton. Whatever will I do. I guess I'll just die" - is that what you think?

No. It would go like:

"Oh look, this person is a skeleton. Does he have a mind? He does! I'll just crush it, dominate it, and make him into my loyal slave.
 
Not entirely sold on your logic for Name of Names (since you're basically saying that any spell that has a name can be negated whether the name is actually part of the spell itself or not). However, I will still switch my vote to Gal.
 
"Whether the name is actually part of the spell itself or not"

Not sure quite what you mean here. But all of Ainz's spells have their names are part of their spells. The spells have specific names that are fundamentally connected to what the spell is, that he needs to say, or at least think, for the spell to be activated.

I don't expect NoN to neg Dr Strange's Crimson Bands of Cytorak or something, But against Ainz? Who is both comparable to Galbatorix and has spells that work by the same principle the NoN negs them by? I expect it to work
 
Like I said, Yggdrasil spells in no way require the name to be used. The only reason they say the names out loud is because they are in the habit of doing so. Otherwise, their allies (and the audience) wouldn't know what spell or skill they used, which would damage their coordination as a team. They are just names, not an incantation. In fact, if I'm remembering correctly, we don't even know what the name of Ainz's timestop spell because he never said it out loud when he used it to kill a certain character with [delay magic: true death]. That's why his allies were confused when it appeared like their leader suddenly died out of nowhere.
 
@Monarch Laciel i agree with most your logic but i think the Name of names only prevents magic in Galbatorix's world if he had complete control over magic in all verses you might as well make a CR for him being Tier 2. to say that Galbatorix with the name of names can control every concept of magic in every universe that especially as each universe has there own laws on how magic works in there world. for instances i can't see Galbatorix using the name of names to delete every servents of Fate/ series

who are practically magic constructs.


also remember the name of names was restricted to the Achient laguage. that only shows up in the Inheriatences series.

other series that use named spells don't use the same laguage to cast magic some even us latin or english
 
@FDryBob. It doesn't matter if the name of the spell is "used", as in verbally spoken or just thought.. "They are just names" - each spell has a specific true name. Therefore, the Name of Names can negate its use.

@Hazer It's called verse equalisation. Name of Names controls the language of magic. Therefore, if your magic requires language, it can negate it. It would be NLF to say it can negate the magic of some Tier 4 or higher. It would be NLF to say it can negate the magic of Skulduggery Pleasant where magic doesn't even use names as a way to use the magic. But it isn't an NLF to say that when Ainz's magic is comparable to Galbatorix's magic and each spell has a specific fundamental name, that those can be controlled. Gal could use the name of names on most of the Fate magic but not all of it, but that's an explanation for another day.
 
Monarch Laciel said:
snip
Click to expand...
but fate magic uses names... :| and basicly you just made an agument for Gal stopping Archer from using Ulimited blade works. since that has to use laguague to be used.
 
This is not the place to explain. If you want me to, ask me on my wall. Also, please do not quote large bodies of text.
 
@monarch

1) And all your argument is 'Galbatorix can mind hax Ainz because he can mind hax groups of people with less mental resistance than Ainz has'. No it isn't , it's better since the same effect can be achived for less effort. Downfall was only used on a single target.

2) That's still an energy drain and it would be a bad idea for Galbatorix to do that for the reason i already gave.

3) Ainz would probably teleport away before that actually, since from his and Galbatorix's perspective he just randomly appeared in Galbatorix's throne room, giving Galbatorix no time to do anything.

4) That's Shalltear that you are thinking of; if Ainz were killed he would likely respawn in Nazarick cleansed of the mind control (assuming Gal could mind hax him in the first place and respawning in Nazarick cures the control like it did for Shalltear).

5) It wasn't that much prep but your right that Gal wouldn't allow Ainz to ward himself. Additionally why are we denying Ainz prep when he's up against someone with higher ap and dura? That seems both unfair and a bit boring since these 2 are both chessmasters.

6) If that really is the case, and i'm not convinced that it is since it seems like an NFL, this match is a stomp because Ainz cannot fight back with NoN neging everything that he does.

7) So basicaly 'they never thought to try it so it must not work' that's some faulty logic there and as i said before if space magic was never weponized in verse why would Gal have a defence against it. Furthermore, given what the NoN lets him do why would Gal develop more wards when he can near instantly shutdown anyone in his verse.

8) It was an unfinished thought when i said it, that i will finish now: Galbatorix has never fought an opponent like Ainz before and wouldn't know how to respond, especially when his and his pets attempts to attack Ainz's mind would just result in them hearing the dial tone of Ainz's message spell.

I would also like to draw a comparison of Ainz to Skuldugery Pleasant, who is the same type of undead as Ainz and it may be possible that their resistance to mind manip is for the same reason ie. their minds don't work the same way as other beings do making it virtually impossible for some one to manipulate them.
 
1) That's not my argument. My argument is that Yggdrasil has never shown any mind hax even close to the level of mind hax of Galbatorix, and so it is complete NLF to say that Ainz's 100% resistance to all the mind hax in Yggdrasil gives him 100% resistance to the mind hax of every other universe. This is suported by Downfall, the best mind hax item in all of Yggdrasil, only being able to target a single person. That's not a matter of "it was only used to target one person at a time", that's "it can only target one person at a time". As in 1 target at a time is its limit

2) Being mind haxed into giving your energy is different from having someone forcible drain it from you. But I can buy that Gal getting negative energy would be a bad thing. Not like it is Gal's only option though.

3) That's not how a match-up works. They both know they are about to fight someone and do so, it isn't like they have a moment of "how did I get here?"

4) Ok. Then Ainz loses via BFR, seeing as he is now in a completely different universe to the specified battle area.

5) You cannot seriously be trying to argue to give Ainz prep. The guy has ridiculous hax, and you want to make him more hax by giving him prep time? Higher power and mind hax is the only thing that makes this fight even remotely fair to Gal. You're just arguing for OP to change SBA to give Ainz the win which only Gilgamesh can do

6) He still has items and equipment. It isn't like he is physically unable to do anything.

7) The point is that spatial manip is a thing in the verse, and Gal has wards against practically everything in the verse. He also didn't have the NoN when he stacked himself with wards.

8) Refer to point 1 for your answer to "dial tone". As for "never fighting anyone like him before" the hell are you talking about? The entire organisation of Dragon Riders was made up of extremely powerful and versatile sorcerers. The only thing "different" about Ainz is that he's a skeleton, and that means nothing when Gal can still telekinetically rip him to shreds.

9) Your comparison to Skulduggery is faulty. Skulduggery has never resisted anything on the level of Galbatorix and would also be mind-haxed by him.
 
Well, the Name of Names is only supposed to work on spells cast using the Ancient Language so it won't work on Ainz.

Speed is equalized so it doesn't matter.

Galbatorix never opened with Eldunarí enhanced magic so Ainz should have the advantage at least during the first exchange.

Ainz is immune to mind manipulation so Galbatorix's favorite tactic isn't going to work. While this immunity can be bypassed with enough power I seriously doubt the Eldunarí would be enough.

I'm giving my vote to Ainz.
 
Like has been said already, immunity is a no limits fallacy. As much as I wouldn't mind for it to be actual immunity, I'm going to have to change it to resistance in all the Overlord profiles that have it. Sorry.

Note that I'm not talking about Ainz resisting Galbatorix's mind hax, since there are more potent mind hax in different verses. Saying Ainz is immune to all of them is a fallacy and it isn't allowed here.
 
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