Fullmetal Alchemist - God Father CRT

[LordGinSama]

Only making this because some peeps need to have information directly spoon feed and to fix up Father's, well uh ass excuse of a profile.

Anyway this should be a very simple and straightforward CRT.


Father absorbed this fellow into his being and should have all of his powers, abilities and more importantly his intelligence. Not only should he have all of the Truth's abilities, he should have every Alchemy ability in the World for absorbing the Gates of the Earth and the Sun.


Following changes would look like this for God Father's P&A section.

Superhuman Physical Characteristics, Reality Warping, Intangibility, Omnipresence (Shown here), Omniscience, Regeneration (Unknown), Immortality (Types 1, 3, 4, and 8), Self-Sustenance (Types 1, 2, and 3), Space-Time Manipulation, Matter Manipulation, Life Manipulation, Death Manipulation, Conceptual Manipulation (Type 3), Soul Manipulation, Non-Physical Interaction (The Truth can control the soul of a person; Edward once made a deal with him to exchange his right arm for the soul of Alphonse), Large Size (Type 8; The Truth is the universe itself), Incorporeality (The Truth exists in the center of The Gate where it's metaphysical), Higher-Dimensional Existence (Literally the universe itself including it's dimension, and exist in the place where it's beyond physical world: In the Gate of Truth as the God), Power Bestowal (The Gate of Truth exists within everyone by it's reason everyone can use alchemy), Perception Manipulation (Truth appears to everyone as a white outline that resembles them[1]).



Intelligence gets bumped up to Omniscient for Infinite knowledge from the Truth.



He should also have Low 2-C AP and durability, and before anyone screams "outlier!" God Father doesn't have any anti feats and they specifically needed to remove the link between him and the Truth in order to take away his strength and abilities.

 

[Deceived3596]

Agree.

he should have every Alchemy ability in the World for absorbing the Gates of the Earth and the Sun

You should definitely note this and explain why on the profile, so people won't ask questions like "why does he have all the alchemy abilities?" or something like that.

 

[LordGinSama]

Father absorbed the Gate of Truth of both the planet and the Sun, the Gate of Truth are what's responsible for Alchemy as they contain boundless information.


Alchemy has 3 steps, that being the following. The most important part would be the Comprehension, Father has the knowledge of what Alchemy itself is based on ergo he could replicate all forms of non special Alchemy (I.E Van Hohenheim's and Eastern Alchemy which works on a different principle.)

Comprehension - Understanding the inherent structure and properties of the atomic or molecular makeup of a particular material to be transmuted, including the flow and balance of potential and kinetic energy within.


Deconstruction - Using energy to break down the physical structure of the identified material into a more malleable state so as to be easily reshaped into a new form.


Reconstruction - Continuing the flow of energy so as to reform the material into a new shape.

 

[Armorchompy]

Only making this because some peeps need to have information directly spoon feed and to fix up Father's, well uh ass excuse of a profile.

well, thanks.

Anyway, the reason I didn't try to revise Father's tier in my own revision was that I wasn't too sure about whether to consider him absorbing Truth to be legitimate or not. Here's why I wasn't so sure:

• The fact that he's not immediately aware of Hohenheim's plan to defeat him and falls victim to it casts a lot of doubt on his alleged Omniscience, given he should have immediately realized this. Even when he's made aware of Hohenheim's plan he fails to piece things together which is even more damning.
• Alchemists are capable of putting up some defense against him with Father even using strategy to overwhelm them which is admittedly always weird given the minimum power level he'd be at, but would be particularly bizarre if he were to be a Low 2-C character that's basically omnipotent by the verse's standards.
• EDIT: He is also incapable of preventing Father or even May from using their alchemy, he can only null Amestrian Alchemy which he could do previously as well. He's definitely not shutting off physics as a whole. Normally you could argue PIS on him not doing it but given he goes out of his way to null Amestrian Alchemy but doesn't for the others despite Hohenheim being the biggest threat in the room, I don't think that holds up.

In short I don't think Father actually ever gathered the full power of Truth. The best you could argue is that he did not quite reach his final state yet as the souls he'd absorbed weren't quite his yet but that wouldn't really make his control over Truth stronger, it just meant his absorption of them was easier to undo. Furthermore he had already come into contact with Truth's portals, which are what contains infinite knowledge. Given his very non-Omniscient behavior after that, I would assume he had not actually absorbed all of that knowledge. I'd find it reasonable to assume he got all Alchemical abilities, though, given he specifically mentions wanting to gain power from it and that's the most logical way he'd do it.

So, in short, I have to disagree with the upgrade.

Father absorbed the Gate of Truth of both the planet and the Sun, the Gate of Truth are what's responsible for Alchemy as they contain boundless information.

There is only one Gate of Truth. The sun and planet ones are their own thing, however that works isn't quite explained but they're just part of the process.

 

[LordGinSama]

Will reply in a bit.

 

[Armorchompy]

Take your time.

 

[TauanVictor]

Right to the point, I agree.

 

[Armorchompy]

With me or Gin?

 

[TauanVictor]

With me or Gin?

With you.

 

[Deceived3596]

Alchemists are capable of putting up some defense against him with Father even using strategy to overwhelm them which is admittedly always weird given the minimum power level he'd be at, but would be particularly bizarre if he were to be a Low 2-C character that's basically omnipotent by the verse's standards

Ehhh.... don't believe this argument is that great to use against what Gin is arguing tbh.

While it's more bizarre that these characters could put up some sort of defense against Father, who is being argued to be Low 2-C by Gin, it doesn't counter the fact of him being Low 2-C inherently, since it's also bizzare that these characters could put up some sort of defense against Father whose currently being rated as 5-B/ Possibly 4-C.

Basically the "bizarreness" of the situation isn't that much of a counter since what we currently accepted is also bizarre as well, you could argue we don't have enough evidence for it to grant a concrete rating but i don't believe you can hand wave a "possibly" rating away with this line of reasoning tbh.

Everything else i have no comment on since i'm not that knowledgeable on Fullmetal Alchemist .

 

[Armorchompy]

Ehhh.... don't believe this argument is that great to use against what Gin is arguing tbh.

While it's more bizarre that these characters could put up some sort of defense against Father, who is being argued to be Low 2-C by Gin, it doesn't counter the fact of him being Low 2-C inherently, since it's also bizzare that these characters could put up some sort of defense against Father whose currently being rated as 5-B/ Possibly 4-C.

I actually had a thought that might not be too legit either, but I'll save it for now. Though at minimum he'd be like tier 6.

Basically the "bizarreness" of the situation isn't that much of a counter since what we currently accepted is also bizarre as well, you could argue we don't have enough evidence for it to grant a concrete rating but i don't believe you can hand wave a "possibly" rating away with this line of reasoning tbh.

I agree, but this is more of a secondary claim and one to support my third argument. But generally if it was only that I would not even bother.

 

[Deceived3596]

I actually had a thought that might not be too legit either, but I'll save it for now. Though at minimum he'd be like tier 6.

Aight, my main point still stands even if he was tier 6 tbh.

I agree, but this is more of a secondary claim and one to support my third argument. But generally if it was only that I would not even bother.

Isn't your third argument about him not attaining the infinite knowledge of Truth? don't really believe that is a counter to him having the "power level" of Truth per say.

Also would you agree with a possibly rating? I just wanna know more of your opinion on this situation.

 

[Armorchompy]

Aight, my main point still stands even if he was tier 6 tbh.

It's more to show that he is struggling with them no matter what, so it would make no sense for him not to powernull them.

Isn't your third argument about him not attaining the infinite knowledge of Truth? don't really believe that is a counter to him having the "power level" of Truth per say.

Also would you agree with a possibly rating? I just wanna know more of your opinion on this situation.

No, that's the first, my third is the one I edited in. But if it's provable that he doesn't have Truth's knowledge, I don't think it's reasonable to say he might have its power - they are very closely related given all Alchemy is based on knowledge.

 

[LordGinSama]

Gonna comment after coffee is done brewing.

 

[Armorchompy]

Gonna comment after coffee is done brewing.

that's an unfair advantage dude i haven't had coffee

 

[LordGinSama]

that's an unfair advantage dude i haven't had coffee

i got you, cream and sugar?

 

[Deceived3596]

But if it's provable that he doesn't have Truth's knowledge, I don't think it's reasonable to say he might have its power - they are very closely related given all Alchemy is based on knowledge.

Isn't Truth's "power level" not based around "knowledge" or his level of "alchemy" but rather his existence within itself?, like the reason he's Low 2-C in the first place is because he's "everything that exists", going off what's on his profile neither his knowledge or alchemic skills matter at all to his attack potency.

That's at least what i'm interpreting from Truth's profile.

 

[Armorchompy]

i got you, cream and sugar?

away with that pussy shit, no cream, no sugar

 

[Armorchompy]

Isn't Truth's "power level" not based around "knowledge" or his level of "alchemy" but rather his existence within itself?, like the reason he's Low 2-C in the first place is because he's "everything that exists", going off what's on his profile neither his knowledge or alchemic skills matter at all to his attack potency.

That's at least what i'm interpreting from Truth's profile.

It's a whole thing.

Yes, that is my counter.

Truth is really weird, but basically to be him you'd effectively be Alchemy/knowledge, so not having that casts a lot of doubt on the whole thing in my opinion. Given Father seeks to absorb him by taking in the knowledge from his gate as one of the scans I posted shows, him not being Omniscient is quite damning.

 

[LordGinSama]

Alright Armor, just to be clear so I can address everything correctly what don't you agree and what do you agree with?

Because from what I'm gathering tier 2 AP is the main thing you disagree with.

 

[LordGinSama]

away with that pussy shit, no cream, no sugar

Black, just like my soul.

 

[Armorchompy]

Alright Armor, just to be clear so I can address everything correctly what don't you agree and what do you agree with?

Because from what I'm gathering tier 2 AP is the main thing you disagree with.

I actually think Father getting Truth's P&A is the most incorrect thing. With AP you could argue he'd only absorbed Truth's power and only that, which I still think is a bit too shakey for me to agree with but it's not as easily proven wrong, way I see it.

 

[Andytrenom]

I actually think Father getting Truth's P&A is the most incorrect thing. With AP you could argue he'd only absorbed Truth's power and only that, which I still think is a bit too shakey for me to agree with but it's not as easily proven wrong, way I see it.

Yeah agree with this

Omnipresence especially is contradicted

 

[LordGinSama]

Can we not start agreeing to either side of the argument whenever I haven't finished writing up my rebuttal?


A little curiosity would be greatly appreciated.

 

[LordGinSama]

I actually think Father getting Truth's P&A is the most incorrect thing.

i respectfully disagree. Father took The Truth into his entire being. It wouldn't make much sense for Father not to have gained any of the powers or abilities from the entity he just absorbed. This a pretty similar situation to Yhwach getting the powers of those who he absorbs like Mimihagi, it wouldn't make logical sense for Father to be unable to gain the powers of the guy who he just absorbed.


One of his first abilities as creating Nuclear Fusion, large scale Weather Manipulation, the ability to negate Western Amestris Alchemy without a catalyst and the ability to Soul rip people from a distance. All abilities that Father didn't have before, then he obtained them after absorbing Truth.

With AP you could argue he'd only absorbed Truth's power and only that, which I still think is a bit too shakey for me to agree with but it's not as easily proven wrong, way I see it.

So you think the AP would be more legitimate? I can't say that I agree 100% but I suppose i can settle for a possibly rating.

Anyway, the reason I didn't try to revise Father's tier in my own revision was that I wasn't too sure about whether to consider him absorbing Truth to be legitimate or not. Here's why I wasn't so sure:

• The fact that he's not immediately aware of Hohenheim's plan to defeat him and falls victim to it casts a lot of doubt on his alleged Omniscience, given he should have immediately realized this. Even when he's made aware of Hohenheim's plan he fails to piece things together which is even more damning.

This portion of the argument is pretty bad, Father had preparation time for over the course of a few hundred years, that he kept hidden away from Father. The moment Father obtained God was the moment where Van Hohenheim also activated his National Transmutation Circle which removed Father's 50 Million souls and return them to the citizens which de powered Father.


I also wouldn't use this as an anti feat towards Father being omniscient considering how arrogant The Dwarf has always been. Same dude who argued against the Truth in a fit of rage while in his Dwarf in the Flask form, it's apart of his character to look down on others and underestimate them which ultimately led to his downfall.

• Alchemists are capable of putting up some defense against him.

This one isn't really a good example of an anti feat either, that was from Van Hohenheim who's leagues above any mortal Alchemist and even then Father outright states "no matter it wont last for long." meaning Van Hohenheim was going to get overpowered by a casual Father.

Keep in mind Van Hohenheim also used up all of his Soul Stock during this fight hence why he died at the end.

• with Father even using strategy to overwhelm them which is admittedly always weird given the minimum power level he'd be at, but would be particularly bizarre if he were to be a Low 2-C character that's basically omnipotent by the verse's standards.

Scans for that? Also if anything the fact that he's even bothering to use a strategy should indicate that he's actively using the intelligence he gained from Truth. Also Father is currently 5-B to 4-C anyway so I feel like the argument of his AP falls flat there.

• EDIT: He is also incapable of preventing Father or even May from using their alchemy, he can only null Amestrian Alchemy which he could do previously as well. He's definitely not shutting off physics as a whole.

Van Hohenheim's Alchemy is special so he's exempt from Father's Nullification and May's Alchemy uses another principle entirely. I never said Father's Nullification would shut down physics as a whole but anything akin to Western Alchemy is on the table.

• Normally you could argue PIS on him not doing it but given he goes out of his way to null Amestrian Alchemy but doesn't for the others despite Hohenheim being the biggest threat in the room, I don't think that holds up.

He can't Null them due to Van Hohenheim's being a special case and May's working on a different system than the system he can nullify.

In short I don't think Father actually ever gathered the full power of Truth.

Proof? Because even if he Absorbed just a fraction of Truth's power's and abilities they'd still be Low 2-C / 4-D in nature. Half of infinity is still infinity no matter how much it's reduced after all.


i think at worst this would just make Father's current hax 4-D in his Truth Absorbed state.

The best you could argue is that he did not quite reach his final state yet as the souls he'd absorbed weren't quite his yet but that wouldn't really make his control over Truth stronger, it just meant his absorption of them was easier to undo. Furthermore he had already come into contact with Truth's portals, which are what contains infinite knowledge. Given his very non-Omniscient behavior after that, I would assume he had not actually absorbed all of that knowledge.

Look at the word you just used. "Infinite." even absorbing a small portion of said Infinite knowledge would still be Infinite at the end of the day.

I'd find it reasonable to assume he got all Alchemical abilities, though, given he specifically mentions wanting to gain power from it and that's the most logical way he'd do it.

Agreed on this part.

There is only one Gate of Truth. The sun and planet ones are their own thing, however that works isn't quite explained but they're just part of the process.

Ehhh the Gates are weird, technically everyone has their own Gate of Truth in the verse and the fact that the Sun and Earth have one is evident of how fucky it is. Although both interpretations work here given Truth's contradictory nature "I am one, I am all."

 

[LordGinSama]

Also if the intelligence section is that much of an issue I suppose we can give him Cosmic Awareness instead and just explain how it works.

 

[azontr]

Also if the intelligence section is that much of an issue I suppose we can give him Cosmic Awareness instead and just explain how it works.

Garou moment.

I agree btw. I agree with also changing the intelligence to just Cosmic Awareness, since I don't think there's any level of arrogance that can subvert literally knowing every possible thing.

 

[LordGinSama]

Garou moment.

I agree btw. I agree with also changing the intelligence to just Cosmic Awareness, since I don't think there's any level of arrogance that can subvert literally knowing every possible thing.

I'm already above that level of arrogance.

 

[azontr]

 

[Armorchompy]

i respectfully disagree. Father took The Truth into his entire being. It wouldn't make much sense for Father not to have gained any of the powers or abilities from the entity he just absorbed. This a pretty similar situation to Yhwach getting the powers of those who he absorbs like Mimihagi, it wouldn't make logical sense for Father to be unable to gain the powers of the guy who he just absorbed.

One of his first abilities as creating Nuclear Fusion, large scale Weather Manipulation, the ability to negate Western Amestris Alchemy without a catalyst and the ability to Soul rip people from a distance. All abilities that Father didn't have before, then he obtained them after absorbing Truth.

He definitely gained abilities, that was his purpose and he visibly achieved it. But that itself doesn't mean he gained the full scope of Truth's powers.

So you think the AP would be more legitimate? I can't say that I agree 100% but I suppose i can settle for a possibly rating.

Let's see about that, I'm not too convinced.

This portion of the argument is pretty bad, Father had preparation time for over the course of a few hundred years, that he kept hidden away from Father. The moment Father obtained God was the moment where Van Hohenheim also activated his National Transmutation Circle which removed Father's 50 Million souls and return them to the citizens which de powered Father.

I also wouldn't use this as an anti feat towards Father being omniscient considering how arrogant The Dwarf has always been. Same dude who argued against the Truth in a fit of rage while in his Dwarf in the Flask form, it's apart of his character to look down on others and underestimate them which ultimately led to his downfall.

That can't hold up, sorry. Omniscient means knowing everything. You can't keep something hidden from an omniscient character, and for them to fail to understand something the second their attention is on it makes even less sense.

This one isn't really a good example of an anti feat either, that was from Van Hohenheim who's leagues above any mortal Alchemist and even then Father outright states "no matter it wont last for long." meaning Van Hohenheim was going to get overpowered by a casual Father.

Keep in mind Van Hohenheim also used up all of his Soul Stock during this fight hence why he died at the end.

He's definitely way stronger but there's literal infinity between 7-C and Low 2-C, Father struggling in any way would make no sense. But this is secondary.

Scans for that? Also if anything the fact that he's even bothering to use a strategy should indicate that he's actively using the intelligence he gained from Truth. Also Father is currently 5-B to 4-C anyway so I feel like the argument of his AP falls flat there.

For what, him using strategy? You can see it in the scan I posted, he attacks from below while Hohenheim is occupied from above. And Father is already an incredibly smart character, he wouldn't need an intelligence boost for simple strategy.

Van Hohenheim's Alchemy is special so he's exempt from Father's Nullification and May's Alchemy uses another principle entirely. I never said Father's Nullification would shut down physics as a whole but anything akin to Western Alchemy is on the table.

He can't Null them due to Van Hohenheim's being a special case and May's working on a different system than the system he can nullify.

Both of those systems still reside within Truth. Everything does, it's the source of all Alchemy alongside all else. It would make no sense for him to be unable to manipulate it if he had all of Truth's powers.

Proof? Because even if he Absorbed just a fraction of Truth's power's and abilities they'd still be Low 2-C / 4-D in nature. Half of infinity is still infinity no matter how much it's reduced after all.

It would have to be a finite percentage of it, which there is no proof of. Singular parts of Truth are 3D given that all Alchemy comes from him, so drawing power from him would not make you tier 2 by default. Nothing implies it's an infinite fraction of infinity. You can still take a spoonful of an infinite cake with a normal spoon and that would be a portion of it.

As an aside, there's also precedent for us not allowing to scale from power sources this way, for example all Pokémon I believe are currently accepted to draw power from Arceus' plates but obviously they're not Low 1-C as funny as that would be.

i think at worst this would just make Father's current hax 4-D in his Truth Absorbed state.

That can't be the case unless you argue all Alchemy is 4D, which is obviously not the case.

Look at the word you just used. "Infinite." even absorbing a small portion of said Infinite knowledge would still be Infinite at the end of the day.

Same as above.

Ehhh the Gates are weird, technically everyone has their own Gate of Truth in the verse and the fact that the Sun and Earth have one is evident of how fucky it is. Although both interpretations work here given Truth's contradictory nature "I am one, I am all."

Everyone has their own Gate of Truth but they would all lead to the same thing, given Truth is omnipresent.

 

[Armorchompy]

Also if the intelligence section is that much of an issue I suppose we can give him Cosmic Awareness instead and just explain how it works.

Mmmmmaybe? He's definitely gained Cosmic Awareness over Alchemy at least so at minimum he'd gain that I suppose.

 

[LordGinSama]

He definitely gained abilities, that was his purpose and he visibly achieved it. But that itself doesn't mean he gained the full scope of Truth's powers.

But what he Absorbed was the Truth itself, it's never stated that he Absorbed only a small portion of Truth. Plus like I said, the fact that he gained abilities from the Truth which only the Truth can reproduce I don't think it'd be a massive stretch to say that he gained some of the Truth's abilities.


At the very least God Father's power source should be 4-D since they're directly stemmed from a Higher Dimensional being.

Let's see about that, I'm not too convinced.

Sure thing.

That can't hold up, sorry. Omniscient means knowing everything. You can't keep something hidden from an omniscient character, and for them to fail to understand something the second their attention is on it makes even less sense.

Already conceded to the Omniscience part, Cosmic Awareness should cover it.

He's definitely way stronger but there's literal infinity between 7-C and Low 2-C, Father struggling in any way would make no sense. But this is secondary.

The gap between 7-C to 5-A and 4-C is also incredibly massive to the point where them doing anything would make any sense. Plus as far as I'm aware we accept this moment as PIS and an obvious outlier. But yeah, this is secondary.

For what, him using strategy? You can see it in the scan I posted, he attacks from below while Hohenheim is occupied from above. And Father is already an incredibly smart character, he wouldn't need an intelligence boost for simple strategy.

I wouldn't really call attacking from underneath the opponent as a form of great strategical thinking tbh.

Both of those systems still reside within Truth. Everything does, it's the source of all Alchemy alongside all else. It would make no sense for him to be unable to manipulate it if he had all of Truth's powers.

That's a fair point but it's kinda irrelevant as I said in the OP. Father's form of Nullification is restricted to abilities such as Western Amestris based Alchemy.


Van Hohenheim's is based upon the souls hes been infected with. He's a rarity, even more so than Mai's form of Western Alchemy.

It would have to be a finite percentage of it, which there is no proof of. Singular parts of Truth are 3D given that all Alchemy comes from him, so drawing power from him would not make you tier 2 by default.

Not necessarily, Truth simply gives Alchemist the ability to perform Alchemy via their own Individual Gates of Truth (Which are abstract mind, they exist meta-physically.) Alchemist don't get it because they're only drawing power from a willing source. Father has directly absorbed said force.

Nothing implies it's an infinite fraction of infinity. You can still take a spoonful of an infinite cake with a normal spoon and that would be a portion of it.

Total difference, your comparing something physical in nature to something that's abstract and Meta-physical. You can take a spoonful of an infinite sized cake, yes. You'd have a valid argument if we were talking about infinite sized cakes, this a discussion about absorbing something that's infinite on a meta physical level. Even absorbing a small portion of something such as literal infinite knowledge.


Said Knowledge is also stated be "beyond the scope of human comprehension." which is pretty cut clear 4-D to me.

As an aside, there's also precedent for us not allowing to scale from power sources this way, for example all Pokémon I believe are currently accepted to draw power from Arceus' plates but obviously they're not Low 1-C as funny as that would be.

Pretty sure that grants them Low 1-C resistance to power Nullification, but alas I'm not a Pokemon expert so I can't speak much on this comparison in particular.

That can't be the case unless you argue all Alchemy is 4D, which is obviously not the case.

Alchemy in of itself isn't 4-D, but it was created by a 4-D being, and is Meta-physical due needing to have a connection to the Truth. Alchemy stems from a Higher D construct.

Same as above.

Read above.

 

[Majinere566]

I thought you was arc lmao

 

[Armorchompy]

But what he Absorbed was the Truth itself, it's never stated that he Absorbed only a small portion of Truth. Plus like I said, the fact that he gained abilities from the Truth which only the Truth can reproduce I don't think it'd be a massive stretch to say that he gained some of the Truth's abilities.

And I don't think he could have possibly absorbed all of it, as he'd gain all of its abilities, Omniscience included. So the only conclusion is that it was a partial absorption.

I wouldn't really call attacking from underneath the opponent as a form of great strategical thinking tbh.

It's not but it is objectively some degree of strategy.

That's a fair point but it's kinda irrelevant as I said in the OP. Father's form of Nullification is restricted to abilities such as Western Amestris based Alchemy.

I know but if he had Truth's powers he'd be able to nullify all of it.

Not necessarily, Truth simply gives Alchemist the ability to perform Alchemy via their own Individual Gates of Truth (Which are abstract mind, they exist meta-physically.) Alchemist don't get it because they're only drawing power from a willing source. Father has directly absorbed said force.

But he has clearly not inherited all of it, or he would be Omniscient.

Total difference, your comparing something physical in nature to something that's abstract and Meta-physical. You can take a spoonful of an infinite sized cake, yes. You'd have a valid argument if we were talking about infinite sized cakes, this a discussion about absorbing something that's infinite on a meta physical level. Even absorbing a small portion of something such as literal infinite knowledge.

Not really, context doesn't change that you can take a finite portion of an infinite source. For a more accurate example math can be considered "meta-physical" and you can obviously have a finite number even though numbers are infinite.

If that wasn't the case then your Cosmic Awareness thing wouldn't hold up, after all even absorbing a small portion of infinite knowledge would make him Omniscient, and then we fall back into the previous issue of Father's showings clearly contradicting what you're claiming.

Said Knowledge is also stated be "beyond the scope of human comprehension." which is pretty cut clear 4-D to me.

What, no. It's just generic hype, doesn't hold inherent tiering meaning. (I guess it's support for him having all shown Alchemical powers)

Just to be clear, are you arguing Father has inherited all of Truth's AP and powers or just that he has a fraction of it?

 

[LordGinSama]

I'll post a reply but by reading the end of your reply makes me think I should do a short response in the meantime.


Originally I was arguing on Low 2-C AP but the scans do say "consciousness." which would insinuate that what he received from the Truth was just Higher-Dimensional hax rather than AP.


I'm saying that by absorbing even a small portion of Truth a 4th dimensional being and gets his new powers directly from him his abilities should be 4-D in nature or at least Infinite 3-D hax.

 

[Armorchompy]

Originally I was arguing on Low 2-C AP but the scans do say "consciousness." which would insinuate that what he received from the Truth was just Higher-Dimensional hax rather than AP.

I'm saying that by absorbing even a small portion of Truth a 4th dimensional being and gets his new powers directly from him his abilities should be 4-D in nature or at least Infinite 3-D hax.

Here's my issue, by virtue of how FMA's power system works, even having Truth's knowledge might not mean you're capable of manifesting 4D hax. After all it's just knowledge you use to exploit the laws of physics to get things to happen. So if it's just information he gathered and not actually Truth's capital P Power, it might just be really advanced "normal" Alchemy.

Is High 3-A hax even a thing

 

[LordGinSama]

Would a possibly rating suffice perhaps? I can definitely see both sides of the argument tbh and i think both are pretty fair.

 

[Armorchompy]

Mm, dunno. If the great majority agrees to it, maybe, but personally I still disagree, my main issue is that FMA's power system might just not make it possible to have 4-D hax just by using knowledge gained from Truth. This is in regards to possibly 4-D hax right? I am very fine with Father getting all Alchemy abilities and Cosmic Awareness, that's something I shouldn't have missed in my verse revision to begin with LOL.

Also I hate to turn an upgrade thread into a downgrade one, but is there a reason absorbing the gate of Earth would make you 5-B? I originally didn't tackle it because I knew you had plans to upgrade Father.

 

[LordGinSama]

Honestly not really sure, perhaps it's because they assumed the Gates for the planet and sun would contain the GBE? I'm really not too sure, but I say we tackle that in a separate CRT.


I do plan on upgrading Father's base stats since he has some pretty good AP feats but that'll be for another thread for another day.



FMA profiles are kinda weird atm with the P&A sections.

 

[Armorchompy]

Honestly not really sure, perhaps it's because they assumed the Gates for the planet and sun would contain the GBE? I'm really not too sure, but I say we tackle that in a separate CRT.

Should I make the thread?

I do plan on upgrading Father's base stats since he has some pretty good AP feats but that'll be for another thread for another day.

I'd love to help with this if you'd like.

I actually think I could come up with some psycho calc that'd keep Gates Absorbed Father fairly high tiering-wise if 5-B is indeed removed, the E=mc^2 all Alchemists use might scale specifically to him since he's capable of causing nuclear fusion/fission, and that huge body he makes would be worth a lot in that regard.

He'd also get a huge LS upgrade for his last key via crushing the little sun he made, that shit's probably minimum Class M.

FMA profiles are kinda weird atm with the P&A sections.

Could you elaborate? I'm open to criticism since I wrote those lol. Is it about the P&A they get from Alchemy not being too clear? I've been worrying about me not having laid that out too well lately.