- 14,195
- 2,571
Although then again, the third point could be an oversight from the creators, though to do it in the very same episode as the main wish became clear would be quite weird.
-
This forum is strictly intended to be used by members of the VS Battles wiki. Please only register if you have an autoconfirmed account there, as otherwise your registration will be rejected. If you have already registered once, do not do so again, and contact Antvasima if you encounter any problems.
For instructions regarding the exact procedure to sign up to this forum, please click here. -
We need Patreon donations for this forum to have all of its running costs financially secured.
Community members who help us out will receive badges that give them several different benefits, including the removal of all advertisements in this forum, but donations from non-members are also extremely appreciated.
Please click here for further information, or here to directly visit our Patreon donations page. -
Please click here for information about a large petition to help children in need.
Fukkatsu no L - Return of Frieza'sFinalForm_Lavos vs Goddess Madoka (Redux)
- Thread starter FateAlbane
- Start date
- Status
- 8,998
- 2,926
- Thread starter
- #42
And here I am again, stuck in another thread making huge replies back and forth and providing evidence with scans for points I have explained in so many threads already... Just my life.
Give me a few minutes. Let me run through a bajillion more scans and videos to prove things I already did.
Again. For no reason.
Give me a few minutes. Let me run through a bajillion more scans and videos to prove things I already did.
Again. For no reason.
- 40,457
- 12,924
And now I feel sorry for Fate. Lavos for reasons above.
- 63,522
- 8,487
Lavos for reasons above.
- 8,998
- 2,926
- Thread starter
- #45
1. Explaining Acausality, edition 999999999+ Infinity
1. "Acausality is defined as the ability to exist outside of causality, or the natural flow of manipulation defined by cause and effect.
An entity that is acausal has no true beginning or end, and is thus essentially immune to offensive causality manipulation and time travel. " -Acausality Page
No beginning and no end... Sounds familiar. Like this? Like, the exact kind of existence Lavos is?
"Even if you go back in time and kill an acausal being in the past or prevent him/her/it from being born/created, it will still exist in the present and other timelines."
Immune to timeline changes is the most obvious thing of all. Even fodder characters in CT do tons of timeline changes and are unnafected by it. They all have time-paradox immunity. Nowhere near close to Lavos.
"Often, even if an acausal being is killed in the present, it can still survive by appearing from another timeline."
Also sounds familiar, let me see. Yeah. Died, summons himself from another timeline.
"Thus, acausal beings are very difficult to permanently destroy, often requiring the use of high-level reality warping."
The main plot of Chrono Cross as far as Lavos is concerned was about creating a macguffin that would reality warp it out of all of existence and the Darkness Beyond Time by channeling its own power against it.
I legit don't need to bring a bajillion scans for this one.
"To more accurately access this, does the events of Chrono Trigger get retconned the moment he went to the Tier 2 range, (similar to how madoka's multiverse restarts, thus witches never existed in this new multiverse as they're not a concept.)"
I guess it does, let me check, yeaah, it does. I had to go through all these videos and scans again despite having made revisions and got through them for all this. Neat. All the events and actions of CT get retconned, it becomes a irregularity and false reality because of that and as a result the main cast me and every CT fan grew up with also ends up retconned from existence.
Does that count?
Chronopolis literally still changed reflecting the future where Lavos rekt everyone despite him being defeated in CT.
Oddly enough, even in the original game Lavos is shown to reappear as a shadow in the final chain reaction of timeline changes right after you defeat him.
But I guess none of this matters. Nor anything I debated for this same point in so many threads already. Or none of the revisions I almost killed myself researching to get things straight in the storm that is the plot and timelines of the Chrono universe. Maybe even his time powers are not proved.
1. "Acausality is defined as the ability to exist outside of causality, or the natural flow of manipulation defined by cause and effect.
An entity that is acausal has no true beginning or end, and is thus essentially immune to offensive causality manipulation and time travel. " -Acausality Page
No beginning and no end... Sounds familiar. Like this? Like, the exact kind of existence Lavos is?
"Even if you go back in time and kill an acausal being in the past or prevent him/her/it from being born/created, it will still exist in the present and other timelines."
Immune to timeline changes is the most obvious thing of all. Even fodder characters in CT do tons of timeline changes and are unnafected by it. They all have time-paradox immunity. Nowhere near close to Lavos.
"Often, even if an acausal being is killed in the present, it can still survive by appearing from another timeline."
Also sounds familiar, let me see. Yeah. Died, summons himself from another timeline.
"Thus, acausal beings are very difficult to permanently destroy, often requiring the use of high-level reality warping."
The main plot of Chrono Cross as far as Lavos is concerned was about creating a macguffin that would reality warp it out of all of existence and the Darkness Beyond Time by channeling its own power against it.
I legit don't need to bring a bajillion scans for this one.
"To more accurately access this, does the events of Chrono Trigger get retconned the moment he went to the Tier 2 range, (similar to how madoka's multiverse restarts, thus witches never existed in this new multiverse as they're not a concept.)"
I guess it does, let me check, yeaah, it does. I had to go through all these videos and scans again despite having made revisions and got through them for all this. Neat. All the events and actions of CT get retconned, it becomes a irregularity and false reality because of that and as a result the main cast me and every CT fan grew up with also ends up retconned from existence.
Does that count?
Chronopolis literally still changed reflecting the future where Lavos rekt everyone despite him being defeated in CT.
Oddly enough, even in the original game Lavos is shown to reappear as a shadow in the final chain reaction of timeline changes right after you defeat him.
But I guess none of this matters. Nor anything I debated for this same point in so many threads already. Or none of the revisions I almost killed myself researching to get things straight in the storm that is the plot and timelines of the Chrono universe. Maybe even his time powers are not proved.
- 8,998
- 2,926
- Thread starter
- #46
2. Non-Corporeality
2. "Um, you do know that being engraved in the universes plus existing in non-existence is just being both part of existence and non-existence? In other words, the same level as Lavos, just with the addition of also part of existence. (Paradox of sorts, I know, but think of existence as 1 and non-existence as one in a computer code, Lavos has a 0, but Madoka has both 1 and 0.)
Yeah, no. Madoka has no mid-godly regen nor the ability to exist in non-existence.
If she gets erased from all of existence, she's dead. There's literally nothing in PMMM to suggest she can return from an existence erasure. A concept that still exists and is deeply engraved in the universe. Not existing/Erasing is what she did to the concept of witches.
She's not on the same level of non corporeality as Lavos'. And she does not exist in non-existence at all. If she's reduced to nothing, she's gone. That's it.
2. "Um, you do know that being engraved in the universes plus existing in non-existence is just being both part of existence and non-existence? In other words, the same level as Lavos, just with the addition of also part of existence. (Paradox of sorts, I know, but think of existence as 1 and non-existence as one in a computer code, Lavos has a 0, but Madoka has both 1 and 0.)
Yeah, no. Madoka has no mid-godly regen nor the ability to exist in non-existence.
If she gets erased from all of existence, she's dead. There's literally nothing in PMMM to suggest she can return from an existence erasure. A concept that still exists and is deeply engraved in the universe. Not existing/Erasing is what she did to the concept of witches.
She's not on the same level of non corporeality as Lavos'. And she does not exist in non-existence at all. If she's reduced to nothing, she's gone. That's it.
- 8,998
- 2,926
- Thread starter
- #47
3.
3. "Have to kinda point out that the part was only the first half of what I said, the second was that Madoka only existed where witches used to exist, if she exists in non-existence, and she destroyed all witches, which would have to include the one that was in this non-existent realm, then that would mean..."
I've seen literally everything in regards to Madoka and I don't remember anything about Madoka existing in Non-Existence at all. I'd legit like to see scans for this otherwise, much like you did to all my points, I'm calling it as wrong or an assumption without proper basis.
If you do believe that, get a CRT through and add it to her profile after getting input from the community. I had to do the same recently for Lavos. With tons of research and scans to back it up. As it currently is, this is not supported at all.
3. "Have to kinda point out that the part was only the first half of what I said, the second was that Madoka only existed where witches used to exist, if she exists in non-existence, and she destroyed all witches, which would have to include the one that was in this non-existent realm, then that would mean..."
I've seen literally everything in regards to Madoka and I don't remember anything about Madoka existing in Non-Existence at all. I'd legit like to see scans for this otherwise, much like you did to all my points, I'm calling it as wrong or an assumption without proper basis.
If you do believe that, get a CRT through and add it to her profile after getting input from the community. I had to do the same recently for Lavos. With tons of research and scans to back it up. As it currently is, this is not supported at all.
- 8,998
- 2,926
- Thread starter
- #48
"4. If ya wanna go that route, Madoka is 2-A where as the form that has that memory manipulation ability is Low 2-C, which is quite literally an infinite size gap."
>> Same to a much greater extent
/\ Literally on its profile. TD is the mature DD and has all of its abilities elevated to a 2-A scale. Ont op of that, it memory manipulated the "half" of itself that wanted to hinder its own progress and can memory wipe on a whim. Guess it works on 2-As while still being Low 2-C. Like how Madoka was affected by Homura's memory wipe while Homura was on a way lower key, too.
That's some resistance. Almost remembered for half a second after Homura let her running freely around thinking she was a normal girl for days and got Memory Haxxed again before she could remember anything. Because TD will totally let her running around after memory haxxing it.
>> Same to a much greater extent
/\ Literally on its profile. TD is the mature DD and has all of its abilities elevated to a 2-A scale. Ont op of that, it memory manipulated the "half" of itself that wanted to hinder its own progress and can memory wipe on a whim. Guess it works on 2-As while still being Low 2-C. Like how Madoka was affected by Homura's memory wipe while Homura was on a way lower key, too.
That's some resistance. Almost remembered for half a second after Homura let her running freely around thinking she was a normal girl for days and got Memory Haxxed again before she could remember anything. Because TD will totally let her running around after memory haxxing it.
- 8,998
- 2,926
- Thread starter
- #49
There you go.
It's so much fun to debate points already proven for months all over again.
It's so much fun to debate points already proven for months all over again.
- 40,457
- 12,924
Now I see why Reppu and Dragon get pissed for Digimon stuff.
Difference is that this is right jk don't kill me pls</>
- 8,998
- 2,926
- Thread starter
- #51
Suddenly I wish Reinhard was 2-A.
- 9,355
- 9,850
Welp, finally. ovovovovovovovovovovovovo
Lavos for reasons above.
Lavos for reasons above.
- 8,998
- 2,926
- Thread starter
- #53
Indeed, on second thought after being made to analyze this over and over, I changed my mind too.
I think it's safe to assume that Lavos wins this by the end - I mean, other than what was already said here, it stalemated Lucey Goosey, so it can probably pull this one because Madoka doesn't look nearly as hard to kill and doesn't have a counter for everything Lavos has. She's going down first. Also Madoka won with really high diff on the past thread when Lavos was less unkillable - by erasing, not incapacitating it. And now that won't work.
Lavos: 3 (The real cal howard, Gargoyle One, LephyrTheRevanchist)
Madoka: 1 (SomebodyData)
Inconclusive: 1 (Kaltias)
Counting the vote for fairness' sake, but I honestly want to know how Madoka incapacitates a literal non-existent being who is At Least 2-A to her 2-A (meaning above her in the baseline) and can regenerate from nothingness as well before getting haxxed or integrated into it. Will need one pretty good feat to prove that since Erasure like she did to the concept of witches will be inconsequential.
I think it's safe to assume that Lavos wins this by the end - I mean, other than what was already said here, it stalemated Lucey Goosey, so it can probably pull this one because Madoka doesn't look nearly as hard to kill and doesn't have a counter for everything Lavos has. She's going down first. Also Madoka won with really high diff on the past thread when Lavos was less unkillable - by erasing, not incapacitating it. And now that won't work.
Lavos: 3 (The real cal howard, Gargoyle One, LephyrTheRevanchist)
Madoka: 1 (SomebodyData)
Inconclusive: 1 (Kaltias)
Counting the vote for fairness' sake, but I honestly want to know how Madoka incapacitates a literal non-existent being who is At Least 2-A to her 2-A (meaning above her in the baseline) and can regenerate from nothingness as well before getting haxxed or integrated into it. Will need one pretty good feat to prove that since Erasure like she did to the concept of witches will be inconsequential.
- 19,122
- 6,334
This will be my last reply in a while, so I won't make other points.
Anyway, first and foremost, the concept manipulation is hardly inconsequential. It can absolutely affect Lavos, it just can't straight up obliterate it. See here https://vsbattles.com/vsbattles/769992
Simple universe bust doesn't kill Madoka, it just removes the type 8 immortality. Her true self isn't affected because it exists in a higher plane of existence. Scan for that is on the profile.
Madoka can manifest wherever a threat to the world exists. Lavos definitely qualify for that.
The memory hax is a fair point, but idk if it can affect her conceptual self (hence why I voted inconclusive).
Anyway, first and foremost, the concept manipulation is hardly inconsequential. It can absolutely affect Lavos, it just can't straight up obliterate it. See here https://vsbattles.com/vsbattles/769992
Simple universe bust doesn't kill Madoka, it just removes the type 8 immortality. Her true self isn't affected because it exists in a higher plane of existence. Scan for that is on the profile.
Madoka can manifest wherever a threat to the world exists. Lavos definitely qualify for that.
The memory hax is a fair point, but idk if it can affect her conceptual self (hence why I voted inconclusive).
- 8,998
- 2,926
- Thread starter
- #56
It's inconsequential if she tries to erase Lavos with it since it's already erased. That was what gave her the win last time. And Azzy himself said she wouldn't up and erase another being on the same scale of 2-A, that just proves my point further: In a war of atrittion, she's now much more likely to go down first.
And Lavos wouldn't Universe bust. He would consume all the infinite timelines, returning them all to nothingness along with everything in them. Scans for that all to nothingness were in the revision. It won't kill her, sure, but it will remove the type 8 immortality and what makes her hard to kill in the first place. Then it's either BFRing her true self to non-existence, memory haxxing and/or pulling an absorption.
Incapacitation will definitely take longer. And since I was forced to prove everything, I already proved that Lavos can interact and affect other incorporeals with the point regarding the Dragon God for example.
Other than that, as long as Madoka has a memory to be affected and has been shown to be susceptible to memory hax in this key, pretty sure we can't assume that she can nope 2-A Memory Hax despite evidence on the contrary. Still staying with my points now. Lavos takes it.
But I'm still counting everyone's votes. Don't worry about that.
And Lavos wouldn't Universe bust. He would consume all the infinite timelines, returning them all to nothingness along with everything in them. Scans for that all to nothingness were in the revision. It won't kill her, sure, but it will remove the type 8 immortality and what makes her hard to kill in the first place. Then it's either BFRing her true self to non-existence, memory haxxing and/or pulling an absorption.
Incapacitation will definitely take longer. And since I was forced to prove everything, I already proved that Lavos can interact and affect other incorporeals with the point regarding the Dragon God for example.
Other than that, as long as Madoka has a memory to be affected and has been shown to be susceptible to memory hax in this key, pretty sure we can't assume that she can nope 2-A Memory Hax despite evidence on the contrary. Still staying with my points now. Lavos takes it.
But I'm still counting everyone's votes. Don't worry about that.
- 8,998
- 2,926
- Thread starter
- #57
Lavos: 4 (The real cal howard, Gargoyle One, LephyrTheRevanchist, FanofRPGs)
Madoka: 1 (SomebodyData)
Inconclusive: 1 (Kaltias)
Madoka: 1 (SomebodyData)
Inconclusive: 1 (Kaltias)
- 1,508
- 281
Lavos for reasons above
- 8,998
- 2,926
- Thread starter
- #61
Welp. Grace period.
If anyone wonders whose reasons, it's mostly my reasons, which were elaborated on while debating with SD, by looking at the thread.
Lavos: 7 (The real cal howard, Gargoyle One, LephyrTheRevanchist, FanofRPGs, Therefir, Megamangohan, Cropfist)
Madoka: 1 (SomebodyData)
Inconclusive: 1 (Kaltias)
If anyone wonders whose reasons, it's mostly my reasons, which were elaborated on while debating with SD, by looking at the thread.
Lavos: 7 (The real cal howard, Gargoyle One, LephyrTheRevanchist, FanofRPGs, Therefir, Megamangohan, Cropfist)
Madoka: 1 (SomebodyData)
Inconclusive: 1 (Kaltias)
- 12,631
- 2,398
Lavos seems to have better hax so i'll vote for lavos (well just to add more i suppose *shrugs*)
- 8,998
- 2,926
- Thread starter
- #65
'k, changing accordingly.
Lavos: 7 (The real cal howard, Gargoyle One, LephyrTheRevanchist, FanofRPGs, Cropfist, Megamangohan, TISSG7Redgrave)
Madoka: 1 (SomebodyData)
Inconclusive: 2 (Kaltias, Therefir)
Lavos: 7 (The real cal howard, Gargoyle One, LephyrTheRevanchist, FanofRPGs, Cropfist, Megamangohan, TISSG7Redgrave)
Madoka: 1 (SomebodyData)
Inconclusive: 2 (Kaltias, Therefir)
- 14,195
- 2,571
1. I already showed you that you're explicitly using 3-D acasuality.
"No beginning and no end... Sounds familiar. Like this? Like, the exact kind of existence Lavos is? "
And Madoka. And quite literally anyone 3-D acasual.
"Immune to timeline changes is the most obvious thing of all. Even fodder characters in CT do tons of timeline changes and are unnaffected by it. They all have time-paradox immunity. Nowhere near close to Lavos."
Exactly, so why is this a point?
"Also sounds familiar, let me see. Yeah. Died, summons himself from another timeline."
Again, anyone with 3-D acausality can do this as well.
"The main plot of Chrono Cross as far as Lavos is concerned was about creating a macguffin that would reality warp it out of all of existence and the Darkness Beyond Time by channeling its own power against it.
I legit don't need to bring a bajillion scans for this one."
Yeah I know, again, this is something any 3-D acasual ability can do.
Since it seems you don't understand the difference between 3-D and 4-D acausality, let me try to explain, 3-D acasuality is the ability to be outside the line of causality from a 3-D + time perspective. 4-D would be to be out of the line of casuality to the point that even 4-D beings / events / flow of "time" cannot affect you.
"Does that count?"
Ye, that's a pretty good sign of 3-D acausality.
"But I guess none of this matters. Nor anything I debated for this same point in so many threads already. Or none of the revisions I almost killed myself researching to get things straight in the storm that is the plot and timelines of the Chrono universe. Maybe even his time powers are not proved."
Actually, all of of the feats you brought were pretty good for acasuality evidence, just not the one you're mentioning here. The last part sounds like sarcasm, so if you want, I can make a question and answer post to prove my point.
"No beginning and no end... Sounds familiar. Like this? Like, the exact kind of existence Lavos is? "
And Madoka. And quite literally anyone 3-D acasual.
"Immune to timeline changes is the most obvious thing of all. Even fodder characters in CT do tons of timeline changes and are unnaffected by it. They all have time-paradox immunity. Nowhere near close to Lavos."
Exactly, so why is this a point?
"Also sounds familiar, let me see. Yeah. Died, summons himself from another timeline."
Again, anyone with 3-D acausality can do this as well.
"The main plot of Chrono Cross as far as Lavos is concerned was about creating a macguffin that would reality warp it out of all of existence and the Darkness Beyond Time by channeling its own power against it.
I legit don't need to bring a bajillion scans for this one."
Yeah I know, again, this is something any 3-D acasual ability can do.
Since it seems you don't understand the difference between 3-D and 4-D acausality, let me try to explain, 3-D acasuality is the ability to be outside the line of causality from a 3-D + time perspective. 4-D would be to be out of the line of casuality to the point that even 4-D beings / events / flow of "time" cannot affect you.
"Does that count?"
Ye, that's a pretty good sign of 3-D acausality.
"But I guess none of this matters. Nor anything I debated for this same point in so many threads already. Or none of the revisions I almost killed myself researching to get things straight in the storm that is the plot and timelines of the Chrono universe. Maybe even his time powers are not proved."
Actually, all of of the feats you brought were pretty good for acasuality evidence, just not the one you're mentioning here. The last part sounds like sarcasm, so if you want, I can make a question and answer post to prove my point.
- 8,998
- 2,926
- Thread starter
- #68
1. I don't see anything about all these recquirements you're making on the Acausality page.
2. Yeah, sorry but no. I can actually agree that every hax and ability has scale but I can go as far as telling you that I didn't see Madoka displaying half of the feats you're claiming as necessary for this Acausality of yours. If she needed to display all that for 3D Acausality, I guarantee that she would not have it. Period.
3. The flow of time really does not affect Lavos as not only he's stated time and again to be beyond time and space on top of all of those feats I provided but also exists in non-existence. Like seriously, how does time affect and how does causality apply to something that does not even exist?
I guess Causality applies to Erased Timelines, too?
Like, if you causality manipulate or rewrite an endless multiverse, timelines that were erased from existence will be affected as well?
Give me a break. This point you're making makes no sense at this point.
Thankfully the grace period is nearly done so we can get this over with.
2. Yeah, sorry but no. I can actually agree that every hax and ability has scale but I can go as far as telling you that I didn't see Madoka displaying half of the feats you're claiming as necessary for this Acausality of yours. If she needed to display all that for 3D Acausality, I guarantee that she would not have it. Period.
3. The flow of time really does not affect Lavos as not only he's stated time and again to be beyond time and space on top of all of those feats I provided but also exists in non-existence. Like seriously, how does time affect and how does causality apply to something that does not even exist?
I guess Causality applies to Erased Timelines, too?
Like, if you causality manipulate or rewrite an endless multiverse, timelines that were erased from existence will be affected as well?
Give me a break. This point you're making makes no sense at this point.
Thankfully the grace period is nearly done so we can get this over with.
- 14,195
- 2,571
2. "Yeah, no. Madoka has no mid-godly regen nor the ability to exist in non-existence."
I have never stated the former, and what part of "All of the universes that once were" exists?
"If she gets erased from all of existence, she's dead. There's literally nothing in PMMM to suggest she can return from an existence erasure"
Again never stated that, I simply stated that she can affect him if she can also reach non-existence too.
I have never stated the former, and what part of "All of the universes that once were" exists?
"If she gets erased from all of existence, she's dead. There's literally nothing in PMMM to suggest she can return from an existence erasure"
Again never stated that, I simply stated that she can affect him if she can also reach non-existence too.
- 8,998
- 2,926
- Thread starter
- #70
And one more thing: On the scans above the already paradox immune cast of CT was retconned but nothing happened to Lavos as that retcon affected the whole reality. That's even more evidence that his Acausality is of a higher scope.
- 14,195
- 2,571
3.
I literally already posted the scan (Last image).
"get a CRT through and add it to her profile after getting input from the community."
Where do you think her non-corporeal comes from lol.
But if you want a revision thread to specify everything even more, then sure I can do that.
I literally already posted the scan (Last image).
"get a CRT through and add it to her profile after getting input from the community."
Where do you think her non-corporeal comes from lol.
But if you want a revision thread to specify everything even more, then sure I can do that.
- 14,195
- 2,571
4. "Same to a much greater extent"
Isn't that quite literally an add-on that has nearly no proper merit?
What I mean is, nearly every profile here, after undergoing a transformation usually has their abilities enhanced, we don't specify that on every profile since it is quite arbitrary.
Isn't that quite literally an add-on that has nearly no proper merit?
What I mean is, nearly every profile here, after undergoing a transformation usually has their abilities enhanced, we don't specify that on every profile since it is quite arbitrary.
- 8,998
- 2,926
- Thread starter
- #73
@SD 2. I asked this to Azzy yesterday and he too told me he doesn't remember anything about Madoka existing on non-existence. Even on those scans Madoka is said to exist as a concept and she says she can see all Universes - she can see the possibilities, she can see those that once were, she says it herself that she sees past, present and future. That's omnipresence.
There's nothing about non-existence there. So yeah, she does not exist in non-existence.
On your other point, that one is fair enough. Never said she cannot affect her opponent either otherwise this would simply be a stomp.
There's nothing about non-existence there. So yeah, she does not exist in non-existence.
On your other point, that one is fair enough. Never said she cannot affect her opponent either otherwise this would simply be a stomp.
- 14,195
- 2,571
"Then it's either BFRing her true self to non-existence, memory haxxing and/or pulling an absorption."
While it would remove type 8 immortality, her type 9 immortality (which is still quite better), would still be intact, meaning the only way he could impact her is through her manifestations, which still aren't the real thing.
While it would remove type 8 immortality, her type 9 immortality (which is still quite better), would still be intact, meaning the only way he could impact her is through her manifestations, which still aren't the real thing.
- 8,998
- 2,926
- Thread starter
- #75
On the hax scale, I already explained above that the TD has the feat of Memory Haxxing on a 2-A scale when Schala tried to hinder the thing through use of its own power while connected with it.
Kinda like if the Good Side and Source of power of the thing tried to get in its way then the bad side memory haxxed it to not interfere.
Kinda like if the Good Side and Source of power of the thing tried to get in its way then the bad side memory haxxed it to not interfere.
- 8,998
- 2,926
- Thread starter
- #76
"While it would remove type 8 immortality, her type 9 immortality (which is still quite better), would still be intact, meaning the only way he could impact her is through her manifestations, which still aren't the real thing."
I agree that Madoka won't go down easily without a fight at all.
But Lavos since the DD can affect and devour things as non corporeal as Dreams, Thoughts and Memories from distant dimensions . He can do that passively or multitasking in battle.
It's also a plot point (gonna get scans for that).
I agree that Madoka won't go down easily without a fight at all.
But Lavos since the DD can affect and devour things as non corporeal as Dreams, Thoughts and Memories from distant dimensions . He can do that passively or multitasking in battle.
It's also a plot point (gonna get scans for that).
- 14,195
- 2,571
1.
"I don't see anything about all these recquirements you're making on the Acausality page."
What do you mean? I'm just specifying the that all of the feats are plausible by 3-D acasuality, not making requirements.
" If she needed to display all that for 3D Acausality, I guarantee that she would not have it. Period."
Nah I'm just saying these are things 3-D acasuality can be used for, ie they're all 3-D acasuality feats.
2."All of the universes that once were, and those that might come to be.
Universes that don't exist... that she can see... when her entire sight comes from her omnipresence... ie where she is....
Guess I'll ask him too.
Funny how everytime I ask him about something he said there is usually some context missing, hopefully this ain't the case tho.
On the memory manipulation part, I also have to point out immortality type 9.
As for the immortality type 9, non-corporeal =/= immortality type 9.
"I don't see anything about all these recquirements you're making on the Acausality page."
What do you mean? I'm just specifying the that all of the feats are plausible by 3-D acasuality, not making requirements.
" If she needed to display all that for 3D Acausality, I guarantee that she would not have it. Period."
Nah I'm just saying these are things 3-D acasuality can be used for, ie they're all 3-D acasuality feats.
2."All of the universes that once were, and those that might come to be.
Universes that don't exist... that she can see... when her entire sight comes from her omnipresence... ie where she is....
Guess I'll ask him too.
Funny how everytime I ask him about something he said there is usually some context missing, hopefully this ain't the case tho.
On the memory manipulation part, I also have to point out immortality type 9.
As for the immortality type 9, non-corporeal =/= immortality type 9.
- 8,998
- 2,926
- Thread starter
- #78
1. Sure thing, then.
2. "I can see all of the past and future. All of the universes that once were (past) and all those that might come to be (future)." Madoka herself talks right before the once were that she can see all the past and future.
To be fair on the vague part, Madoka didn't have that much time on screen as Godoka.
Immortality type 9 makes her exist on a higher state, sure, but the only way Lavos would possibly not reach her if he can affect something as abstract as thoughts, dreams and memories from a distant dimension on an infinitely lower key would be if she was High 2-A as a concept or something.
2. "I can see all of the past and future. All of the universes that once were (past) and all those that might come to be (future)." Madoka herself talks right before the once were that she can see all the past and future.
To be fair on the vague part, Madoka didn't have that much time on screen as Godoka.
Immortality type 9 makes her exist on a higher state, sure, but the only way Lavos would possibly not reach her if he can affect something as abstract as thoughts, dreams and memories from a distant dimension on an infinitely lower key would be if she was High 2-A as a concept or something.
- 14,195
- 2,571
1. Ye
2. ...You do know why she can see all the past and present right?...
Do you know where her nigh-omniscience comes from?....
3. Well is this distant dimension on a higher plane of existance? Impacting abstract things in a distant dimension = / = impacting an abstract concept on a higher plane of existance.
2. ...You do know why she can see all the past and present right?...
Do you know where her nigh-omniscience comes from?....
3. Well is this distant dimension on a higher plane of existance? Impacting abstract things in a distant dimension = / = impacting an abstract concept on a higher plane of existance.
- 8,998
- 2,926
- Thread starter
- #80
2. Past and present are one thing. They still exist and can be perceived by a high enough 4D being. They are still part of a timeline. Past and future are not non-existent. I can say "Once there was a tree there". Doesn't mean the tree never existed. If I time traveled to the past, the tree would be there. Unlike something that literally was erased from existence.
3. No, because there isn't anything to say that Madoka exists on a level where she is untouchable by other 2-A's on the same or a higher level than her granted that they have the hax (and TD Lavos is higher on the baseline 2-A than Madoka, being At Least 2-A to her 2-A). If she could not be affected or reached by other 2-As at all then she would exist as a High 2-A. By the same reasoning applied here Madoka could stalemate or defeat all other 2-As going by the reasoning that they can never reach her true form.
3. No, because there isn't anything to say that Madoka exists on a level where she is untouchable by other 2-A's on the same or a higher level than her granted that they have the hax (and TD Lavos is higher on the baseline 2-A than Madoka, being At Least 2-A to her 2-A). If she could not be affected or reached by other 2-As at all then she would exist as a High 2-A. By the same reasoning applied here Madoka could stalemate or defeat all other 2-As going by the reasoning that they can never reach her true form.
- Status
