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Frisk Low 2-C Upgrade

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RinneItachi said:
This has to be another key for Frisk so there must be something for their AP.
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No, Frisk cannot hurt Asriel, none of Frisk attacks even hurt him, the only way to make Frisk have tier 2 AP is if Omega Flowey were Tier 2, but he isnt tier 2 anymore
 
I'm literally not saying that they would have Low 2-C AP.

"Our options are pretty much "Unknown", "Unknown, possibly (or likely) Low 2-C (Was unable to harm Asriel at any point in their fight, however their durability is at this level and they should likely be much stronger than normal", or "At least 9-B, likely far higher (Should be massively stronger than normal, but couldn't harm Asriel at any point during their fight." You likely disagree with the middle one, so do you agree with one of the other two?"
 
RinneItachi said:
I'm literally not saying that they would have Low 2-C AP.

"Our options are pretty much "Unknown", "Unknown, possibly (or likely) Low 2-C (Was unable to harm Asriel at any point in their fight, however their durability is at this level and they should likely be much stronger than normal", or "At least 9-B, likely far higher (Should be massively stronger than normal, but couldn't harm Asriel at any point during their fight." You likely disagree with the middle one, so do you agree with one of the other two?
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Nah, I dont understand why would it be Higher, since, Frisk in pacifist route (the one with asriel fight) literally has only L.O.V.E 1 during the entire route, to gain L.O.V.E the player need to kill monsters, but pacifist route literally u cant kill, because thats a pacifist route, and the fact that Frisk L.O.V.E didnt increased in the game is a proof that it AP remains the same, cuz Frisk didnt gained stats after all, and Frisk attacks literally gives 0 damage to Asriel
 
It's agreed that Frisk becomes stronger when they have higher DT, which is how they're able to fight with Asriel in the first places. Even with a LV of 1, and while using the Stick, you can still deal plenty of damage to Asgore with all of your attacks. The reason why you can damage Asgore at LV 1 with a Stick but not one shot extremely weak Monster's like Froggit with the same things is very likely because of Determination, which makes further sense as there's even narration stating that you're filled with Determination right when the fight begins. Sure, there's no direct evidence that they specifically got stronger with Asriel as well, but due to the fact that their DT makes them stronger even in less extreme circumstances, it's not far fetched at all.
 
RinneItachi said:
It's agreed that Frisk becomes stronger when they have higher DT, which is how they're able to fight with Asriel in the first places. Even with a LV of 1, and while using the Stick, you can still deal plenty of damage to Asgore with all of your attacks. The reason why you can damage Asgore at LV 1 with a Stick but not one shot extremely weak Monster's like Froggit with the same things is very likely because of Determination, which makes further sense as there's even narration stating that you're filled with Determination right when the fight begins. Sure, there's no direct evidence that they specifically got stronger with Asriel as well, but due to the fact that their DT makes them stronger even in less extreme circumstances, it's not far fetched at all.
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Yeah higher DT makes stronger, but it doesnt envolves the LV, sure, okay, we can make ''likely higher'' with DT, but it shouldnt be Low 2-C
 
Given the disorganization here, I would appreciate any name called by Ant to quote my comment above to disagree with it, saying their reasons for it if they exist beyond just disagreeing.

For the common users relentlessly agreeing on things like Asriel's feat being as passive as just existing idk what to do about it, I can't just talk things out as they already simply disagreed to it and would be too corrupted to go with what would make the most sense anyway. I could propose making a page called "Common sense" for the wiki and start a list to ban claims wrong for extremely obvious reasons like a character being able to repeatedly & quickly attack with the tier of their best feat while in the much slower process of performing said feat in the only time they did said feat.
RinneItachi said:
and Effeciente has yet to debunk the argument supporting it
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I am very tired of common users dishonesty claiming me to have done or not done something in threads I take part of.
 
Eficiente said:
For the common users relentlessly agreeing on things like Asriel's feat being as passive as just existing idk what to do about it, I can't just talk things out as they already simply disagreed to it and would be too corrupted to go with what would make the most sense anyway. I could propose making a page called "Common sense" for the wiki and start a list to ban claims wrong for extremely obvious reasons like a character being able to repeatedly & quickly attack with the tier of their best feat while in the much slower process of performing said feat in the only time they did said feat.
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Thats not an counter after all
 
I ain't gonna argue with whatever you are saying rn efi cause my head hurts in a literal manner but...

Could you just, you know, not call us common users? We ain't commoners and you ain't a noble. We are average users, normal users. Common is a tad bit mean. The main differences between us is that you've spent more time on the site and have a shiny mod rank. Otherwise we're just average people. All our opinions matter... Don't they?
 
"common users" Someone not being a staff member doesn't change that their opinion has relevancy, but sure try to take advantage of the fact that you're a Thread Mod and say that other opinions mean less than your own because of that, definitely fair to other people. Even if it's not literally performed by just existing, it doesn't change Low 2-C durability for Frisk. The rest of that paragraph is just nonsense not worth addressing, and is even further disrespectful to the people in this thread.

"common users" I've literally been here since 2019, have taken place in many arguments, and have even caused changed to pages in the past, but yeah I guess because you're a mod that means your opinion has more value than anyone else. Kind of cringe man. But keep arguing because Low 2-C dura for Frisk doesn't fit your narrative of Undertale being extremely weak.
 
chad_meme.jpg
 
I mean, im not even sure how can someone take these arguments seriously if the argument is like ''its not common sense to asriel destroy a timeline by his mere existence''
 
Bernkastelll said:
I mean, im not even sure how can someone take these arguments seriously if the argument is like ''its not common sense to asriel destroy a timeline by his mere existence''
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Undertale is made by several monsters with magic, an alive skeleton who loves jokes, and Asriel is literally a goat/cow that throw stars, but destroying a timeline is not common sense, so, the feat is invalid
 
Guess I’ll say I agree with the Durability Upgrade, I mean I’d assume in the end Chara and Frisk are using the same power of determination and Chara is already Low 2-C, doesn’t seem too hard to imagine
 
@Eficiente oh and get off your pony, just because your staff doesn't give you the right to disrespect others, in fact it means you should be an example for how to behave, what is a random person just visiting supposed to believe when a staff is just disrespecting the average user?

"Oh the staff here are Aholes, I probably don't want to be a part of the community."

Is that the message you want to send Efi? Really?
 
Aye aye aye, i just pointed out what was probably an unthoughtful wording choice and asked not to do that no more, i didn't tell everyone to start writing paragraphs about "top 10 reasons why efi is disrespectful".
He may disrespect the opinion but he didn't specifically disrespect us besides the one wording choice, i ain't here to start a witch hunt.
 
If a witch hunt is started over that message i am disappointed in this community
 
I disagree with Asriel being Low 2-C just by existing, but he's definitely Low 2-C. And while I disagree with AP, Frisk's durability should definitely scale.

Look, I hate Undertale and think it used to be wanked on here, but God Tiers are undoubtably Low 2-C.
 
No one is witch hunting him, we're pointing out how disrespectful he's being. He's being overly argumentative despite literally everyone else involved agreeing with Low 2-C durability and refuses to keep trying to argue, instead relying on his staff position to say we're wrong because we aren't staff, and stating that we lack common sense, which is quite literally insulting our intelligence, regardless of whether or not it's direct, while even stating that we're bias and will never listen to him no matter what he says, acting as if we've been arguing with him for weeks even though there's not even a hundred messages about the topic in total. Extremely cringy.
 
Arguing=/=overly argumentative. Literally everyone here but him has agreed with Low 2-C durability and he has provided no actual points to counter that. That's being overly argumentative.
 
Yeah, I mean, there is nothing much to do about it, Frisk durability def scales to Low 2-C, everyone with solid arguments agreeing, but Eficiente disagreeing because its not common sense, bro, he is literally the only person against it and he isnt even arguing, his argument is that we should make a ''cOmMoN sEnsE'' page and ban arguments
 
Bernkastelll said:
Yeah, I mean, there is nothing much to do about it, Frisk durability def scales to Low 2-C, everyone with solid arguments agreeing, but Eficiente disagreeing because its not common sense, bro, he is literally the only person against it and he isnt even arguing, his argument is that we should make a ''cOmMoN sEnsE'' page and ban arguments
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To be more exact, his argument is "lol i'm staff and you're not so that means i'm right, you're all stupid and we should ban your arguments". Basically what he's saying but much less direct in his message.
 
I don’t think going on about Efficiente is particularly relevant, we should probably focus on the upgrade at hand first
 
We're talking about Effeciente so much because he's the only one attempting to "argue" against it. But I agree overall. Again, can we reach a consensus about Frisk's AP?
 
1. I said one message and y'all derailed it like that train in the intro of toy story 3

2. Sometimes you gotta try and stand your point even if the world's against you

3. Yeah he's being kind of a douche with the whole common sense thing cause NO HELL NO THERE'S NOTHING SENSICAL ABOUT A COSMIC GOAT NUKING TIMELINES but you gotta stop. We already said everything needed to be said and we need to stop before this turns into a club for efficiente dislikers.
Yeah he's always up for a loud argument but he tries to get accurate info most of the time, even if he's really strict about it for no reason.

4. Staff are agreeing besides efi, the upgrade will probs happen, don't be dumb.
 
9-B or Unknown are my picks, id agree with each one and I can't which one
 
Arceus0x said:
1. I said one message and y'all derailed it like that train in the intro of toy story 3

2. Sometimes you gotta try and stand your point even if the world's against you

3. Yeah he's being kind of a douche with the whole common sense thing cause NO HELL NO THERE'S NOTHING SENSICAL ABOUT A COSMIC GOAT NUKING TIMELINES but you gotta stop. We already said everything needed to be said and we need to stop before this turns into a club for efficiente dislikers.
Yeah he's always up for a loud argument but he tries to get accurate info most of the time, even if he's really strict about it for no reason.

4. Staff are agreeing besides efi, the upgrade will probs happen, don't be dumb.
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We were responding to Efeciente because he was being disrespectful to everyone here, not because you said something about him

That's being willfully ignorant, not defending your points because you reasonably believe what you stand by.

I'm not trying to hurt him, I'm trying to make a point that he's acting very immature, especially considering his position in this community. I get where you're coming from man but we're not canceling him. Although I will admit to submitting a report about his behavior.

Agreed.
 
Arceus0x said:
1. I said one message and y'all derailed it like that train in the intro of toy story 3

2. Sometimes you gotta try and stand your point even if the world's against you

3. Yeah he's being kind of a douche with the whole common sense thing cause NO HELL NO THERE'S NOTHING SENSICAL ABOUT A COSMIC GOAT NUKING TIMELINES but you gotta stop. We already said everything needed to be said and we need to stop before this turns into a club for efficiente dislikers.
Yeah he's always up for a loud argument but he tries to get accurate info most of the time, even if he's really strict about it for no reason.

4. Staff are agreeing besides efi, the upgrade will probs happen, don't be dumb.
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1 and 2. Rinn sums it up

3. You must have meant "12 foot tall cosmic flying space goat who absorbed hundreds of souls before attacking a child who doesn't die because they are determined to press on". Other then that Rinn sums it up here as well

4. Agreed
 
Anyways, I think most people talking about it are agreeing with either "Unknown" or "At least 9-B, likely far higher" for Frisk's AP. I'm trying to get this part settled as it's pretty much the last thing we need before making any changes.
 
That's what DaReaperMan originally agreed with and still does. I don't dislike it either. So that's 3.
 
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