Frisk Low 2-C Upgrade

[Arceus0x]

Nah there's really nothing new.

 

[Antvasima]

After looking through the thread, Asriel is indeed Low 2-C which Frisk did literally stand up to one of his strongest attacks. This didn't appear to be one of those, "he was knocked out and blown away but he still survived." Which would be common examples of outliers. But Frisk does often stand up to attacks from god tiers by the looks of it. So I think Frisk being a stonewall with Low 2-C durability is consistent.

Okay. Thank you for the evaluation. This seems to have been accepted then. Should we use JKM's suggestion or straight Low 2-C durability?

Also, everybody stop picking on Eficiente. He is just trying to do his job as a staff member.

 

[Justkillme42069]

idk it just makes sense to me for their physical strength to be boosted as well when their durability is boosted all the way to universal+, their speed seems to be boosted too according to their profile and they even gain the ability to add extra healing items to their inventory and just straight up heal themselves, unknown for their AP is probably the best option imo

Should we use JKM's suggestion or straight Low 2-C durability?

I don't know what this "JKM's suggestion" is but straight low 2-C durability is pretty clear

 

[DaReaperMan]

9-B is my final choice so yeh

 

[FoxySonicMaster108]

Okay. Thank you for the evaluation. This seems to have been accepted then. Should we use JKM's suggestion or straight Low 2-C durability?

Yeah, Low 2-C durability with 9-B (possibly higher) AP works.

ALso, everybody stop picking on Eficiente. He is just trying to do his job as a staff member.

If I was one of those people, I apologize.

 

[Bernkastelll]

9-B is my final choice so yeh

To AP?

 

[DaReaperMan]

To AP?

Why else would I be mentioning it?

 

[y3p_owo]

Low 2-C Durability seems to be more likely to me imo

 

[Bernkastelll]

Low 2-C Durability seems to be more likely to me imo

Explain please

 

[y3p_owo]

What I meant to say is Frisk being Low 2-C in durability seems more likely than in general (well at least for now) because they haven't shown in feats of being able to damage people like Asriel. However if Omega/Photoshop Flowey does get a Low 2-C tier in the future, I'm fine with Low 2-C Frisk in general as they can damage them (Even if the damage is peanuts). (Sorry for my awful wording from my previous comment if that was the reason you wanted an explanation, I'm not good at explaining things/getting my words out correctly/grammar at times)

 

[Bernkastelll]

What I meant to say is Frisk being Low 2-C in durability seems more likely than in general (well at least for now) because they haven't shown in feats of being able to damage people like Asriel.

Thats not a good argument after all, Frisk not being able to hurt Asriel just means that Frisk AP doesnt scales to Low 2-C, which is the reason that we are debating about it being either Unknown or 9-B likely higher, why would it envolve Dura that has blatant Low 2-C feats?

 

[Fastestthingalive50]

I agree with the dura upgrade.

 

[FinePoint]

Low 2-C durability with 9-B (possibly higher) AP

Based on the evidence this seems like the perfect take-away from this thread to me.
Frisk as a Stone Wall makes a lot of sense.

 

[y3p_owo]

Thats not a good argument after all, Frisk not being able to hurt Asriel just means that Frisk AP doesnt scales to Low 2-C, which is the reason that we are debating about it being either Unknown or 9-B likely higher, why would it envolve Dura?

Oh then I totally misread/misunderstood what we were debating at the moment, my bad. Yeah I agree with Unknown.

 

[Antvasima]

Are you all certain that Frisk's determination simply doesn't create some kind of force-field against soul-related attacks, given that much weaker characters can hurt him physically?

 

[DaReaperMan]

Are you all certain that Frisk's determination simply doesn't create some kind of force-field against soul-related attacks, given that much weaker characters can hurt him physically?

This isn't the same frisk that can be harmed by people like Sans, this is the frisk that has enough determination to Ressurect mid-fight and stand to Asriel

 

[Bernkastelll]

Are you all certain that Frisk's determination simply doesn't create some kind of force-field against soul-related attacks, given that much weaker characters can hurt him physically?

Frisk in the end of pacifist route in the asriel fight was really really determinated as it never was before, Frisk had a immense amount of Hopes and Dreams, it isnt the same frisk in the genocide route

 

[FinePoint]

Are you all certain that Frisk's determination simply doesn't create some kind of force-field against soul-related attacks, given that much weaker characters can hurt him physically?

Forgive me if I'm ignorant, but in what instance does a monster harm Frisk physically?
If I recall correctly, they all attack them with soul-based attacks.

 

[FinePoint]

Also, looking at the Frisk page perhaps we should separate keys for low/high determination.
It essentially lines up with the game stage, and it's common for RPG characters to have "early game" and "late game" keys.

 

[Justkillme42069]

Forgive me if I'm ignorant, but in what instance does a monster harm Frisk physically?
If I recall correctly, they all attack them with soul-based attacks.

in the mtt ex fight if you pose with low hp it says "despite being hurt/wounded, you pose dramatically"
if it were only soul-based and not physical harm, then frisk shouldn't be physically strained

 

[Justkillme42069]

also toriel says "not a scratch on you" if you clear the ruins with full hp, implying that frisk would have wounds on their body if they had gotten hurt

 

[FinePoint]

in the mtt ex fight if you pose with low hp it says "despite being hurt/wounded, you pose dramatically"
if it were only soul-based and not physical harm, then frisk shouldn't be physically strained

I'm guessing that's the basis by which we scale stats at all rather than simply calling it soul-hax resistance?
If that's the case, then the others are right, and the Frisk at the end of the game has extremely high determination.

 

[Bernkastelll]

Frisk in the end of pacifist route in the asriel fight was really really determinated as it never was before, Frisk had a immense amount of Hopes and Dreams, it isnt the same frisk in the genocide route

just tagging if people didnt saw
-------------------------------------
Frisk being hurt by others characters during the game is not an anti feat, since, Frisk becomes stronger with high amount of determination that him/her/it has, and during Asriel fight, Frisk was heavily determinated with a big amount of hopes and dreams

 

[Justkillme42069]

ye it's generally agreed upon that frisk is more determined against stronger opponents, and they themselves get stronger the more determined they are, that's even the case on their profile rn "higher with greater levels of Determination"

 

[Bernkastelll]

ye it's generally agreed upon that frisk is more determined against stronger opponents, and they themselves get stronger the more determined they are, that's even the case on their profile rn "higher with greater levels of Determination"

Yeah, like undyne, undyne was one shotted by genocide frisk, but with determination, she could tank several attacks from genocide frisk

 

[Justkillme42069]

and frisk in pacifist is faaar more determined than undyne was there

 

[Bernkastelll]

Yeah

 

[Rez]

Basically determination is kinda like spiral energy from gurren lagann but just less op

 

[Antvasima]

Okay, but is determination physical durability against everything, or some sort of spiritual force-field that also protects against many different things?

 

[Bernkastelll]

Okay, but is that physical durability against everything, or some sort of spiritual force-field that also protects against many things?

Physical, Frisk never had a force field

 

[DaReaperMan]

Okay, but is that physical durability against everything, or some sort of spiritual force-field that also protects against many different things?

There is 0 proof of a forcefield, Occam's Razor tells us its physical and spiritual damage

 

[Antvasima]

Well, it just seems weird to me to scale physical durability from supernatural willpower.

 

[Bernkastelll]

Yeah, Frisk never showed any force field in the game after all

 

[Antvasima]

Okay. Still weird though.

 

[Bernkastelll]

Well, it just seems weird to me to scale physical durability from supernatural willpower.

Thats common in fiction XD, Undertale characters become stronger with Determination, Undyne was one shotted by genocide Frisk, but when Undyne had determination, she could tank several attacks

 

[DaReaperMan]

Okay. Still weird though.

It is, but fiction is wierd like that

 

[Bernkastelll]

Thats common in fiction XD, Undertale characters become stronger with Determination, Undyne was one shotted by genocide Frisk, but when Undyne had determination, she could tank several attacks

And the same thing can be noticed in a lot of shounen verses

 

[Rez]

Well, it just seems weird to me to scale physical durability from supernatural willpower.

the spiral energy from gurren lagann is just supernatural willpower on steroids and that scales

 

[Justkillme42069]

not only is this fiction, this is undertale lol

 

[Antvasima]

Okay. It is probably fine to apply then.