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Hell, im already on there. Any dbz calcs ya want me to grab?
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Frieza Saga Goku FTL Citation
- Thread starter Firestorm808
- Start date
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- Tags
- dragon ball goku son goku
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This again?
No. I already explained my position a thousand times, just haven't had the time to implement the changes.
Freeza has a Relativistic feat in his First Form. Through Goku's Kaioken x20, they become FTL.
No. I already explained my position a thousand times, just haven't had the time to implement the changes.
Freeza has a Relativistic feat in his First Form. Through Goku's Kaioken x20, they become FTL.
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I will apply it today. I have a free afternoon.
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Regardless, the ones below Frieza level still have unknown speed since the Piccolo one still being an outlier as far I known (the difference between those two calcs is pretty small, and both are casual).
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Why is Piccolo's feat considered an outlier? Just curious, because I don't think we should scale it from original DB due to reasons which I already stated.
"because the reasoning for it being outlier is that it doesn't agree with scaling from original Dragon Ball. But we all agree that DBZ gave huge power boosts to almost all characters and it should apply to speed too, as ki is the source for both power and speed"
"because the reasoning for it being outlier is that it doesn't agree with scaling from original Dragon Ball. But we all agree that DBZ gave huge power boosts to almost all characters and it should apply to speed too, as ki is the source for both power and speed"
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It isn't an outlier. DBZ has a massive, massive boost from the Piccolo Junior Arc.
High 6-C to Low 5-B.
Speed being boosted that much is fine likewise.
High 6-C to Low 5-B.
Speed being boosted that much is fine likewise.
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It's an outlier because no other feat surpasses it, and it comes from a BoS character.
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Piccolo Jr. was Island level and Hypersonic+The real cal howard said:
After 5 years of training he became Small Planet level. It is totally acceptable for his speed to have increased just as much.
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- Thread starter
- #57
Wait. The compression ruined it.
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Dude, lready posted the results from.thar, it was mach 33,186.
If need be ill put the calc in a blog .
If need be ill put the calc in a blog .
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- Thread starter
- #59
Sorry. I just wanted to show how he got it. The math and what not.
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I mean yeah, and that's fine, but that artifact.
I'll put it in a blog later.
Who did it?
I'll put it in a blog later.
Who did it?
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- Thread starter
- #61
Who did the math or the doc?
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Calc.
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- Thread starter
- #63
God Movement
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That's the mach 30k feat.
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Noticed Circular Scaling in the profiles. Was looking for the Frieza feat. Can't find it. Just links me to Vegeta, who scales to Goku. Then I looked for Relativistic+ justification, who links me to cell, who links me to Frieza, who links me to Goku, who links me to Raditz, who links me to Piccolo. What I'm saying is, Radical's calc for Frieza should be on Frieza's page as well, instead of just on Piccolo's page.
Also, since Kaioken increases your PL as well as all your stats in a clear, clean cut multiplier, why can't we use that as justification for speed increases as Goku's power level goes up until Frieza's stated 1,000,000. Basically, if Goku's base speed is Sub-Rel, whatever number it is, we divide it by 90,000-- Goku's power level at the Frieza Saga against Ginyu-- and we multiply Goku's Sub-Rel number by whatever the result is to get Goku's Speed at that point in the story, and then scale from there. Yes, PL's don't normally go in linear fashion. But Goku's pl does, apparently, since Kaioken increases his PL and his Speed in the same multiplicative way. We don't have to assume what other people's speeds are by using their number, but we can use Goku as a benchmark, or scale Goku's speed alone from the Kaioken to see how fast he is/would be at 1,000,000 or 3,000,000-- whichever you prefer-- and then scale from the mathmatical result.
Again, not using power levels as an indicator of all characters speeds, just using Goku's PL to gauge Goku's future speeds up to the point where we stop getting Canon PLs, then scaling characters off the result. Is likely gonna be a no, but I just wanted to put it out there. I'll use it myself on a personal tip anyway, so...
Also, since Kaioken increases your PL as well as all your stats in a clear, clean cut multiplier, why can't we use that as justification for speed increases as Goku's power level goes up until Frieza's stated 1,000,000. Basically, if Goku's base speed is Sub-Rel, whatever number it is, we divide it by 90,000-- Goku's power level at the Frieza Saga against Ginyu-- and we multiply Goku's Sub-Rel number by whatever the result is to get Goku's Speed at that point in the story, and then scale from there. Yes, PL's don't normally go in linear fashion. But Goku's pl does, apparently, since Kaioken increases his PL and his Speed in the same multiplicative way. We don't have to assume what other people's speeds are by using their number, but we can use Goku as a benchmark, or scale Goku's speed alone from the Kaioken to see how fast he is/would be at 1,000,000 or 3,000,000-- whichever you prefer-- and then scale from the mathmatical result.
Again, not using power levels as an indicator of all characters speeds, just using Goku's PL to gauge Goku's future speeds up to the point where we stop getting Canon PLs, then scaling characters off the result. Is likely gonna be a no, but I just wanted to put it out there. I'll use it myself on a personal tip anyway, so...
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I will try to fix the profiles today.
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Yeah. And if Goku is .02 c, then (lowballing .02 c to 8,000) he's 2.5 times FTL at most. But that's calc stacking...? Idk, because that's hypothetical Kaioken times 125 used to get to Second Form Frieza's PL of 1 million from 8,000-- a x125 difference-- and then 2.5 times 3 is 7.5, which is a high ball using the Daizenshu's 3 million. Is this calc stacking? Because all I'm doing is multiplying the PL by whatever times it takes for the Kaioken to reach that number, and doing the same to the Speed. Strength is a completely different story though. We use Kaioken in the same way. Goku's base form should be at least equal to Second Form Frieza in PL, meaning whatever Goku's speed is (.02c) is multiplied by the multiplicative difference between 1,000,000/8,000. That's 125. So Kaioken x 125 is 2.5 c, or FTL...?
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The problem here is that we have come in to a point were calcs. > feats and we dont put attention on them apart from a possible calculation, in Dragon Ball (Not even Z) Popo teaches Goku how to move at Lightning speed (Half or 1/3 of the Speed of Light.), and this makes him move his body to a complete extend even reacting to enemy movements before they happen (Pretty much a cheap version of Ultra Instinct) Goku masters this technique in the Budokai Arc. even before becoming Adult, saying that he didnt got at least 5 times stronger than when he was a kid is just downplaying.
http://media.animevice.com/uploads/0/5512/303422-lajt1_super.gif
And then you have Red from Pokemon who is rated as 6-C because "He should have surpass his previews peak", If a character just by time can jump from High 7-A to 6-C I think Goku can do the same with Relativistic.
http://media.animevice.com/uploads/0/5512/303422-lajt1_super.gif
And then you have Red from Pokemon who is rated as 6-C because "He should have surpass his previews peak", If a character just by time can jump from High 7-A to 6-C I think Goku can do the same with Relativistic.
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Even going with relativistic base Goku and applying the kaioken multiplier (which absolutely can't be ignored as it is explained in-series) would make Goku FTL. And we gonna ignore that Goku became magnitudes stronger later, that it's not even funny.
I mean if we are power scaling, then why don't do it right? What's the point of scaling when we are ignoring the obviousness of the situation? We don't need to copy everything that OBD does.
I mean if we are power scaling, then why don't do it right? What's the point of scaling when we are ignoring the obviousness of the situation? We don't need to copy everything that OBD does.
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Don't really see why downgrades should happen, if you accept the fact that the characters went small country level to small planet level over a period of time, i don't see why we would then say that the speed is an outlier, that sounds counter-intuitive to me, either you accept both the ap and speed, or you deny both, you can't just accept that piccolo blew up the moon, but then ignore his attack which blew up the moon.
Freeza in his first form which is stronger than piccolo has a relativistic calc, goku who is stronger than first form freeza can use kaioken x20 to boost himself and make himself 20x faster, there is the justification for them being FTL, pretty sure we have already been over this.
Freeza in his first form which is stronger than piccolo has a relativistic calc, goku who is stronger than first form freeza can use kaioken x20 to boost himself and make himself 20x faster, there is the justification for them being FTL, pretty sure we have already been over this.
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What? I see Dark has changed it, Dark this is the second time you have done this, you can't just make these major changes without discussion.
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- Thread starter
- #76
After reading the recent posts, I want to try and step in and offer my thoughts. Personally, I believe that light speed was reached in the Frieza Saga.
Frieza
Facts about Death Beams
Power levels are best used to describe proportional growth for the individual rather than AP/Speed across multiple people. (ie. You can't scale Piccolo's power level from his moon feat to for Frieza's AP) Power level scaling should also only apply during Raditz to Frieza Saga due to Toriyama purposefully powering up Goku for Frieza.
Vegeta Saga: Over 8000
Ginyu Saga: 90000 (about 11.25x increase)
Frieza Saga: 3000000 (33.3333333333x increase)
If we assume that Power Levels scale linearly with speed as shown by the Kaio-Ken and that Goku is at least 1% SoL in Vegeta Saga, then Frieza Saga Goku should be 3.75c in terms of Combat Speed
Frieza
Facts about Death Beams
- Death Beams are the fastest ki beam at this point in the story
- Piccolo's moon ki beam is at least sub-relativistic by our standards
- Piccolo and Vegeta, who are considered at least Relativistic at the time by our community, recalled only seeing a flash
- We all agree that Goku is Sub-Rel in Vegeta Saga.
- If Death Beams are SoL, Goku is 155.3187181326623 % SoL
- Goku is light speed if Death Beams are 64.4283121593% SoL
Power levels are best used to describe proportional growth for the individual rather than AP/Speed across multiple people. (ie. You can't scale Piccolo's power level from his moon feat to for Frieza's AP) Power level scaling should also only apply during Raditz to Frieza Saga due to Toriyama purposefully powering up Goku for Frieza.
Vegeta Saga: Over 8000
Ginyu Saga: 90000 (about 11.25x increase)
Frieza Saga: 3000000 (33.3333333333x increase)
If we assume that Power Levels scale linearly with speed as shown by the Kaio-Ken and that Goku is at least 1% SoL in Vegeta Saga, then Frieza Saga Goku should be 3.75c in terms of Combat Speed
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- Thread starter
- #78
^How to write in source code?
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- #80
Final Form Frieza 50% should be about 113x stronger/faster than his first form.
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