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Four Knights of the Apocalypse/Nanatsu no Taizai Main Discussion Thread

I mean I think the Star Creation stuff is blatant wank, but I already lost that debate in the CRT, so there's nothing I can do about it
Zezu1995 said:
bruh his existence is power itself , lets not do that... also imo its the whole PLANET. due to the fact that DK/SD can literally make stars BUT since the plot is britinna they left it at that... theres alot of uses of the word " world" and then britnnna ... if it was ONLY britinna they wouldnt have used "world" at all think about it
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I mean even if Meliodas destroying the whole planet, the disasters across Brittannia happened over the course of a few days and the destruction was by no means immediate or implied to be the plantet literally blowing up

You should know by now that on the site, someone being said to be capable of "Destroying the world" alone isn't enough to make someone planetary, or else Whitebeard would have easily been Planetary by now
 
yes a few days in his BASE form .. lol we all know mel could've solo'd dk with his true magic. either way , lets just carry on with what we currently doing
 
Zezu1995 said:
yes a few days in his BASE form .. lol we all know mel could've solo'd dk with his true magic. either way , lets just carry on with what we currently doing
Click to expand...
Dude, he went all out in his True Magic Form and the world didn't immediately implode, Meliodas is not anywhere near planetary
 
I'm just saying, the statement of "World destruction" alone doesn't indicate planetary unless other evidence supports it
 
It's not even stated to be the world. Meliodas says he needs to leave the world, which he's stated to be doing so he doesn't destroy Britannia. Merlin implies it'll take time to destroy Britannia alone, even with two Demon Kings (one of whom was DK Zeldris with his youth restored).

Also, I never got this base argument. It's explicitly because he attained Original Magic and has DK levels of power, which he absolutely doesn't have in base.

Now, onto this storm, isn't there a building extremely close to the frame? It's closer than the mountain, yes, but there's also surrounding landmarks that show the mountain isn't like dozens of times larger.
 
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Look on the blotch of land closest to the bottom of the panel. There seems to be windows on a small structure.
 
Doubt those are windows or that windows could be seen from a such a view. They seem more like some exit of a building
 
I can see them being archways. But, even then, archways typically aren't more than 1 storey.
 
ByAsura said:
It's not even stated to be the world. Meliodas says he needs to leave the world, which he's stated to be doing so he doesn't destroy Britannia. Merlin implies it'll take time to destroy Britannia alone, even with two Demon Kings (one of whom was DK Zeldris with his youth restored).

Also, I never got this base argument. It's explicitly because he attained Original Magic and has DK levels of power, which he absolutely doesn't have in base.

Now, onto this storm, isn't there a building extremely close to the frame? It's closer than the mountain, yes, but there's also surrounding landmarks that show the mountain isn't like dozens of times larger.
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Meliodas is clearly using that power in base form which seems to be deconstruction and his base form/demon mark fought prime demon king. So he base clearly got stronger.
 
speedster352 said:
But it is small and the storm is larger than the mountain rages literally doesn't change anything
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My point is that those mountains may not necessarily be 609 metres, or even mountains. There's no set size for mountains, or a statement that these aren't hills.

Also, 'mountain ranges'. At best, it's 1 visible mountain and some cliffs/hills.
speedster352 said:
Meliodas is clearly using that power in base form which seems to be deconstruction and his base form/demon mark fought prime demon king. So he base clearly got stronger.
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Obviously it didn't, otherwise the Demon King wouldn't even be able to recognise it.

Which doesn't really make sense, as Ban was being outclassed by the Demon King Meliodas destructed. Also, it's not even true because Demon Mark Meliodas couldn't even match him without Ban and King.

Clearly just awakening the power alone, like he says it does, can disturb the balance.
 
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ByAsura said:
My point is that those mountains may not necessarily be 609 metres, or even mountains. There's no set size for mountains, or a statement that these aren't hills.

Also, 'mountain ranges'. At best, it's 1 visible mountain and some cliffs/hills.

Obviously it didn't, otherwise the Demon King wouldn't even be able to recognise it.

Which doesn't really make sense, as Ban was being outclassed by the Demon King Meliodas destructed. Also, it's not even true because Demon Mark Meliodas couldn't even match him without Ban and King.

Clearly just awakening the power alone, like he says it does, can disturb the balance.
Click to expand...
It's just drawn to scale the mountains are larger and the storm is like 10x larger and we are looking for the storm measurements not the mountains. Ban was being worn out by DK meliodas since he stabbed trough the stomach. DK Meliodas blitz and dmged the prime demon king and was soloing him without the sins while mentally rebuffed.
 
speedster352 said:
It's just drawn to scale the mountains are larger and the storm is like 10x larger and we are looking for the storm measurements not the mountains.
Click to expand...
If it's drawn to scale, then that strongly supports exactly what I'm saying.

I don't care if you're just looking for the storm measurements. The storm measurements are based on the mountains' size, so this argument makes no sense.
speedster352 said:
Ban was being worn out by DK meliodas since he stabbed trough the stomach. DK Meliodas blitz and dmged the prime demon king and was soloing him without the sins while mentally rebuffed.
Click to expand...
I said the Demon King that Meliodas destructed (meaning the one he, Wild and Ban fought in Purgatory), not DK Meliodas.

That never happened. He was obliterating Zeldris while he was at a state weaker than DK Meliodas. He never stomped the prime Demon King.
 
ByAsura said:
If it's drawn to scale, then that strongly supports exactly what I'm saying.

I don't care if you're just looking for the storm measurements. The storm measurements are based on the mountains' size, so this argument makes no sense.

I said the Demon King that Meliodas destructed (meaning the one he, Wild and Ban fought in Purgatory), not DK Meliodas.

That never happened. He was obliterating Zeldris while he was at a state weaker than DK Meliodas.
Click to expand...
here here. Fine we won't use the mountains as measurement.
 
First scene wasn't what I was referring to at all (read the sentence more carefully), the next scene shows how casual DK Zel was and omits the scene where he overpowers 2nd Demon Mark Meliodas.
 
ByAsura said:
First scene wasn't what I was referring to at all (read the sentence more carefully), the next scene shows how casual DK Zel was and omits the scene where he overpowers 2nd Demon Mark Meliodas.
Click to expand...
After he heals from a large gash on his chest after he was blitzed he was clearly surprised by his speed. Escanor was able to damage DK zeldris in base and the one was his equal and the one ultimate surpasses Dk zeldris so how would the scaling go since AM Meliodas is equal to the one ultimate escanor?
 
Or he's obviously not taking him seriously at all, and Meliodas is using a Sacred Treasure just to cut him (Lostvayne notably sliced apart Albion, who was superior to even Meliodas' Demon Mark). Plus, he doesn't even take damage in the manga version, and proceeds to blitz Meliodas.

I'm planning on removing that. It's completely unfounded.
 
ByAsura said:
Or he's obviously not taking him seriously at all, and Meliodas is using a Sacred Treasure just to cut him (Lostvayne notably sliced apart Albion, who was superior to even Meliodas' Demon Mark). Plus, he doesn't even take damage in the manga version, and proceeds to blitz Meliodas.

I'm planning on removing that. It's completely unfounded.
Click to expand...
Why are you removing that? Escannor damaged prime demon king in the anime and Manga and AM Meliodas is relative to him. Like seriously? So your saying only Escannor scales too and above prime demon king? What's the plan then? Do you even have scans to debunk it?
 
ByAsura said:
I'm saying that AM Meliodas scaling to him is unfounded, not Escanor.
Click to expand...
But why not though it's Meliodas' strongest form apart from true magic. He used against the demon king proving that it is somewhat comparable to escannor. Meliodas was already fighting off prime demon king with demon mark so AM would do way better including true magic. So Meliodas defniety scales to prime demon king.
 
The 'why not' doesn't matter in this situation. If there's no objective proof, it's a question of why.

He also used his base form and 2nd Demon Mark against DK Zeldris.

And was getting outclassed, even with assistance from Ban and King. Like I said, he doesn't even harm DK Zeldris with that sword slash in the manga.

Meliodas definitely scales below Prime Demon King. Even his True Magic Form was expended to destroy the Commandments, which represent half DK's power.
 
ByAsura said:
The 'why not' doesn't matter in this situation. If there's no objective proof, it's a question of why.

He also used his base form and 2nd Demon Mark against DK Zeldris.

And was getting outclassed, even with assistance from Ban and King. Like I said, he doesn't even harm DK Zeldris with that sword slash in the manga.

Meliodas definitely scales below Prime Demon King. Even his True Magic Form was expended to destroy the Commandments, which represent half DK's power.
Click to expand...
Are we going back to the same argument? Meliodas destroyed he power in order to stay in Britannia he didn't want it. It was shown the demon king got slashed and healed it up. Please stop using the same argument to try and downplay Meliodas. Try something else.
 
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ByAsura said:
Are you seriously recycling that same argument even after it's been debunked numerous times? Zeldris says he'll lose the power even before he tried to destroy the Commandments, the power disappears exactly as the Commandments fade, and it's obviously just killing two birds with one stone. Stop trying to wank Meliodas. Try something else. In fact, I'd strongly prefer it if you didn't try anything at all.

It wasn't shown in the manga. I gave you the scans showing that.
Click to expand...
Yeah no he didn't even want his power so he gave it up to destroy the DK and Meliodas is still the strongest sins said by nakaba himself. Nope Meliodas fought and defeated the supreme diety at 50% and bulied the demon king in purgatory. Like I said I am not buying the whole weaker than 50% demon king thing no matter what anyone says. Dk zeldris even acknowledges his power you clearly see the prime demon king get cut he heals it quickly. Are you really an NNT supporter?
 
speedster352 said:
Yeah no he didn't even want his power so he gave it up to destroy the DK
Click to expand...
I gave you the proof that he would have lost it whether he wanted to or not. You're just ignoring the evidence (like you've been doing this whole time).
speedster352 said:
Meliodas is still the strongest sins said by nakaba himself.
Click to expand...
Where? I recall a similar statement from the 3rd Guide Book, but I've also seen other translations that claim he's just 'one' of the strongest.
speedster352 said:
Nope Meliodas fought and defeated the supreme diety at 50%
Click to expand...
With his 2nd Demon Mark, and like you said she was 50%. Also, he had to avoid each and every one of her blasts, and struggled even with Zeldris. This just goes to prove my point.
speedster352 said:
and bulied the demon king in purgatory.
Click to expand...
For the last time, in a mental realm where strength didn't matter. That was not Purgatory.
speedster352 said:
Dk zeldris even acknowledges his power you clearly see the prime demon king get cut he heals it quickly.
Click to expand...
No you don't. What are you on about?
speedster352 said:
Are you really an NNT supporter?
Click to expand...
Are you? You seem to blatantly ignore information when it flies in front of your face.

Someone who's an actual supporter of the verse probably wouldn't question if everyone's a fan the moment they disagree with your interpretation.
 
ByAsura said:
I gave you the proof that he would have lost it whether he wanted to or not. You're just ignoring the evidence (like you've been doing this whole time).

Where? I recall a similar statement from the 3rd Guide Book, but I've also seen other translations that don't phrase it that way.

With his 2nd Demon Mark, and like you said she was 50%. Also, he had to avoid each and every one of her blasts, and struggled even with Zeldris. This just goes to prove my point.

For the last time, in a mental realm where strength didn't matter. That was not Purgatory.

No you don't. What are you on about?

Are you? You seem to blatantly ignore information when it flies in front of your face.

Someone who's an actual supporter of the verse probably wouldn't question if everyone's a fan the moment they disagree with your interpretation.
Click to expand...
I mean when he destoyed the DK arm in purgatory when he was trying to escape remember ban and wild? SD attacks were light magic dangerous to demons remember? Also he was having some trouble with her unknown ability remember when she being held back by zeldris and Meliodas struck her she was afraid for her life that's why she wanted to talk Meliodas out of it. I ignore head canon difference. When Meliodas was able to use magic on DK in purgatory where wild was he destroyed the Dk arm and caused him to panick.
 
speedster352 said:
I mean when he destoyed the DK arm in purgatory when he was trying to escape remember ban and wild?
Click to expand...
Firstly, DK was weaker than normal, as he was amping Zeldris. Secondly, I don't really see why Meliodas destroying his arm debunks him scaling to the Commandments. Meliodas destroyed them because he was a bit more powerful to begin with.
speedster352 said:
SD attacks were light magic dangerous to demons remember?
Click to expand...
Which we're giving all of the characters resistance for, and the Ten Commandments have all been shown withstanding from characters even more powerful than themselves. By this logic, Ludoshel or any one of the Four Archangels could have beat him at any time.
speedster352 said:
Also he was having some trouble with her unknown ability remember when she being held back by zeldris and Meliodas struck her she was afraid for her life that's why she wanted to talk Meliodas out of it.
Click to expand...
Meliodas was shown with a fully operational Sacred Treasure in this movie, and he had to pump all his power into his weapon alongside Zeldris. They even collapse from the effort afterwards, and say they're struggling during the battle.

If anything, Meliodas and Zeldris had a much massive advantage than the unknown power because Zeldris was paralysing her with Ominous Bind the whole time (Ominous Nebula being a power that's far above Zeldris' physical strength).
speedster352 said:
I ignore head canon difference.
Click to expand...
Then I'm ignoring your headcanon.
 
ByAsura said:
Firstly, DK was weaker than normal, as he was amping Zeldris. Secondly, I don't really see why Meliodas destroying his arm debunks him scaling to the Commandments. Meliodas destroyed them because he was a bit more powerful to begin with.

Which we're giving all of the characters resistance for, and the Ten Commandments have all been shown withstanding from characters even more powerful than themselves. By this logic, Ludoshel or any one of the Four Archangels could have beat him at any time.

Meliodas was shown with a fully operational Sacred Treasure in this movie, and he had to pump all his power into his weapon alongside Zeldris. They even collapse from the effort afterwards, and say they're struggling during the battle.

If anything, Meliodas and Zeldris had a much massive advantage than the unknown power because Zeldris was paralysing her with Ominous Bind the whole time (Ominous Nebula being a power that's far above Zeldris' physical strength).

Then I'm ignoring your headcanon.
Click to expand...
Not really that demon king was in purgatory for 100 millions of years and wild notes he was consuming the potent purgatory creatures so he is definetly not the same form 3000 years ago here. He only lent Zeldris a portion of his power not like all of it. Where did you get that from? So now you accept that feat why say Meliodas is weaker than 50% DK? What's the logic one anti feat? Ban, king and escanor survived a magic attack from DK zeldris. King also blocks Dk zeldris darkness attack from hitting diane The demon king had the ruler and supreme had an unknown ability that was was hard to get past and mind you the SD say this and this. She was worried about her life from one attack from Meliodas and by the way SD took no damage from her FC attack. This is Meliodas without true magic. Also SD has the strongest light magic in the goddesses clan so it's safe to say one hit and it's gg. Mael can do this and one shot demons with arrow of salvation. It's better to be safe than sorry.
 
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speedster352 said:
Not really that demon king was in purgatory for 100 millions of years and wild notes he was consuming the potent purgatory creatures so he is defnetly not the same form 3000 years ago here.
Click to expand...
Which wouldn’t have made a difference, as Meliodas’ plan was to break the curse that scales to his power and is maintained by his existence.
speedster352 said:
He only lent Zeldris a portion of his power not like all of it.
Click to expand...
Which would have still weakened him. I’m not saying it’d have massively weakened him.
speedster352 said:
Where did you get that from?
Click to expand...
What part exactly?
speedster352 said:
So now you accept that feat why say Meliodas is weaker than 50% DK? What's the logic one anti feat?
Click to expand...
I never didn’t accept it.

It’s not an anti-feat, it’s two statements that Meliodas is on par with him at this level, and him literally using up all the power to destroy him. The arm feat isn’t an outlier, but it would be if you wanted to play this game.
speedster352 said:
Ban, king and escanor survived a magic attack from DK zeldris. King also blocks Dk zeldris darkness attack from hitting diane
Click to expand...
So? They don’t need to be weaker to hold off his strikes and stop his spam projectiles. Plus, they were all using Sacred Treasures.
speedster352 said:
The demon king had the ruler
Click to expand...
Ruler doesn’t stop physical attacks. Also, you see him getting hit by quite a lot of magical attacks during the fight, so he obviously didn’t stop all of them.
speedster352 said:
and supreme had an unknown ability that was was hard to get past and mind the SD say this and this.
Click to expand...
Already addressed that. Plus, it doesn’t stop magic attacks.

Time stamps don’t work.
speedster352 said:
She was worried about her life from one attack from Meliodas
Click to expand...
She was worried from a massive combined assault from Zeldris and Meliodas after they already heavily damaged her.
speedster352 said:
and by the way SD took no damage from her FC attack.
Click to expand...
So?
speedster352 said:
This is Meliodas without true magic.
Click to expand...
I know.
speedster352 said:
Also SD has the strongest light magic in the goddesses clan so it's safe to say one hit and it's gg.
Click to expand...
We’re not shown that being stronger amplifies the comparative effects.
speedster352 said:
Mael can do this and one shot demons with arrow of salvation. It's better to be safe than sorry.
Click to expand...
Weaker Demons, obviously. He could have used it at any point against any demon he was fighting, but didn’t.
 
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ByAsura said:
Which wouldn’t have made a difference, as Meliodas’ plan was to break the curse that scales to his power.

Which would have still weakened him. I’m not saying it’d have massively weakened him.

What part exactly?

I never didn’t accept it.

It’s not an anti-feat, it’s two statements that Meliodas is on par with him at this level, and him literally using up all the power to destroy him. The arm feat isn’t an outlier, but it would be if you wanted to play this game.

So? They don’t need to be weaker to hold off his strikes and stop his spam projectiles.

Ruler doesn’t stop physical attacks. Also, you see him getting hit by quite a lot of magical attacks during the fight, so he obviously didn’t stop all of them.

Already addressed that. Plus, it doesn’t stop magic attacks.

Time stamps don’t work.

She was worried from a massive combined assault from Zeldris and Meliodas after they already heavily damaged her.

So?

I know.

We’re not shown that being stronger amplifies the comparative effects.

Weaker Demons, obviously. He could have used it at any point against any demon he was fighting, but didn’t.
Click to expand...
Here goes. DK spent 100 misslions years in purgatory so it's possible he got stronger or weaker but it's one or the other. Why would DK give Zeldris all his power? He didn't he lent him a portion of it it could even be 5 or 10% so it's nothing too big stop bringing it up it's not like he gave him half or Zeldris would solo the verse. Even Merlin and Diane damaged DK zeldris so unless you say Meliodas is weaker them he obviously should scale. DK and supreme diety confirms that true magic Meliodas surpasses them this and this and SD says you could have defeated me by yourself. She also says would you kill your lovers mother too? clearly worried about her life from one attack without using assault mode or true magic. The FC thing could be a feat and used for scaling. True magic at least looks like deconstruction. the one mael<50 SD so yes it does matter. What's to say she wasn't spaming arrow of salvation? Mael one shotted Derieri so it's very potent. There abities makes it hard to damage them as seen with the sins against the DK and SD since there normal attacks weren't effective. Anyway this can go on for the entire day and I don't have time for that(school) so I will wait until you make the final NNT crt.
 
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