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Fix Verse Equalization

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Amexim

Amexim

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We don't even need specific changes to anything. The problem is that people are applying weaknesses or abilities that don't actually work with how they think they do. The worst examples are Bleach and HxH.

https://vsbattles.com/vsbattles/3427754?useskin=oasis

With this thread, despite Gon's "hax" only applying to people who lack Nen (which is both equalized as Chi and literally links back to the Chi Manipulation profile) and don't or can't use Chi to shield themselves from these affects, people are saying Gon Mind haxes and fear haxes when that's not how the power works. But because some wankers are using this unclear ruling on no resistance Equalization, they deliberately apply the hax when it wouldn't work because of this— when it should be seen as a case by case basis and applied or not applied when the situation calls for it. In this case, Goku, a Chi user who covers himself in what is literally the same as a Chi/Nen "Ten" aura shroud should be immune to the affects of a type of hax that is a verse mechanic that specifically only applied even in the verse itself to beings who lacked this basic defensive trait of having a barrier or shroud to surround themselves.

Meanwhile, in this Bleach thread:

https://vsbattles.com/vsbattles/3421961?useskin=oasis#137

People, despite Reiryoku/Reiatsu being just about the same as Ki/Chi, and the affects of Reiatsu/Soul crushing deliberately being tied to "how much Reiryoku you have/how strong your Reiatsu is"— literally your AP— they acted as if it was a Hax that never ever had anything to do with AP at all. Occams Razor was just yeeted out of the window, and even Imade seemed to take a statement using "Soul" as irrefutable evidence of Soul manipulation despite the entire phenomenon dealing with Spiritual Energies and that making the "Soul" talk more able to be seen as flowery language than be taken literally, and the whole reading of it screams to me that they're deliberately trying to twist things into a narrative to give Bleach hax that they don't really have, reinterpreting a verse mechanic that should apply to everyone involved and always has in that very verse into a unique power that has nothing to do with AP when it always has.

Nevermind my beliefs that all overall Verse Mechanics should apply to every character in the fights they're in so long as they're mechanics that would be impartial in any other sense— like everyone has Chakra Points if we're dealing with Naruto and Genjutsu can work by circulating their Spiritual Life Energy in their brains just like it does in Naruto even if they normally don't have Chakra points and pathways, every human/organic being has Souls if someone has Soul manipulation even if the author says there's no souls or afterlife in their verse or if the verse itself confirms it— if it's a human, it's got a soul- the list goes on. Nevermind that. **** me.

Let's at least get on the same page when it comes to how fights work on a case by case basis. We really need to let Reiatsu effects equalize with Chi, but even then, even if you don't want that, let Nen effects, or at least the defense against the Emotions and Nen vulnerability be defended by Chi manipulation when it's acting EXACTLY the same way that Chi/Nen does. They do the same thing and it's ridiculous. This would lead to fights being listed that don't make sense when you look at them for two seconds because people are abusing rules and not paying attention to context.
 
Verse Equalization doesn't give you new powers and resistances, it just equalizes energies so your abilities are able to interact.

Reiryoku grants soul resistance in Bleach and it produces Reiatsu which causes esoteric effects like soul manipulation. Verse equalization doesn't mean you now have soul resistance and soul manipulation, that literally changes the character's powers and is no longer an accurate discussion of the fight since we've granted new abilities.

Edit: Also, I don't think anyone is going to take you seriously when your opening includes calling people wankers just because they don't agree with you.
 
No. He's deliberately utilizing manipulative interpretations of the text to get something that was never said out of it. Both of the examples are.

HxH especially. Reading Wing's explanation of Nen will allow you to understand that the fear aura is bloodlust and malice translated through malicious Chi/aura. Having a Shroud of Chi to defend yourself from it would negate the affects. Therefore, if we are to believe that Wing isn't stupid and that ALL HxH characters have a fear aura hax that cannot be defended against irrelevant to you shrouding yourself— not just the example you gave with the Chimera Ants, who are that way because of a huge AP gap that made them scared of the ants whilst Netero and Zeno had no issues, with no evidence of them having a unique fear resistance ability— we would have no choice but to keep what he said in mind. That lack of evidence for a unique power trait irrelevant to Nen bloodlust projection leaves us to assume that it was the same mechanic that Wing Explains to us in Chapter 45-47 or so using Occam's Razor. It would be harder to justify that unique power existing without an explanation than it would be to take the basic inference of it being because of the gap in power. You know, what the entire Chimera Ant Hunter fighter group kept emphasizing as they shat themselves whilst Netero and Zeno had no affects? Ugh.
 
Saying that "You're crushing her Soul" means that you're literally manipulating her soul, and that's already getting hyper specific information from a vague statement. Instead of assuming the basics and staying in line with the verse, which talks about Reiatsu AP and Reiryoku strength gaps being being the causes of these phenomena you add the idea that this phenomena has nothing to do with AP and exists as a unique power phenomena. When that's just abusing the rules and verse mechanics to only apply one way when they should apply both ways since that's how energy Equalization works. It's either Chi and Reiryoku are the same or they're not. You can't pick and choose.
 
Being next to yammy was crushing her soul, it's pretty easy to understand.

This is an Overwhelming Aura ability in Bleach, which everyone can resist naturally. outside of the series that person needs to prove resistance on par with Tatsuki at a bare min. It's irrelevant wether the energy may be similar at a base level to another in terms of abilities like this. If the other grants these things and the other doesn't that's all that matters.
 
What even. If verse equalization makes energies the same, the mechanics behind said energies would also be the same i.e. Dragon Ball Chi = Bleach Reiatsu = Naruto Chakra and so on.

Which means that Bleach characters shouldn't be able to passively crush beings of the same level of AP or energy. I thought this was common sense?
 
You can't sit here and equalize the energy of Chi and ignore the verse mechanics associated with Bleach and having Spiritual Awareness. A Ki user would most definitely be considered spiritually aware in Bleach. Same with a Yu Yu Hakusho Spirit Detective with Reiki— Ki/Chi/Reiki same shit— Spiritual life energy shit. Point being, Spiritual Energy users would by definition be beings with High Spiritual Power/High Reiryoku/High Awareness. The higher that goes... You know how it should work.
 
Sir Ovens said:
What even. If verse equalization makes energies the same, the mechanics behind said energies would also be the same i.e. Dragon Ball Chi = Bleach Reiatsu = Naruto Chakra and so on.
Which means that Bleach characters shouldn't be able to passively crush beings of the same level of AP or energy. I thought this was common sense?
Click to expand...
Not sure where you've been but this isn't how it works.
 
Cool, but again the wiki doesn't grant abilities to others they don't already have. So again being similar means nothing because it's never the same in the 1st place.
 
Sir Ovens, please help! They want to argue that you get Soul Crushed no matter how strong your soul would be, regardless of how the rules of the verse mechanics work, and say that you only get a pass if you have Soul Resistance.

They also want to argue that HxH Chi/Nen/Aura rules don't apply like they should. In HxH you typically resist the fear and madness "hax" by having a Shroud of Chi/Aura to protect you from it, unless you're Pitou or Pouf, who are either like that due to power gaps against weaker foes— which is likely the case, as Kite, Netero, and Zeno all never even shown having to resist these effects— they just never felt them, so it's likely not unique fear hax or whatever.

Look, the point is, there's misconceptions and abuse of the rules going on here that needs to be addressed.
 
Those are the rules, we've had several threads on this already. it's essentially fanfic characters what you're proposing. You either have resistance to the abilities or you don't. All verse equalization does is allow interaction and nothing more.
 
Sigurd— Then we're not doing Verse Equalization then. This rule literally means nothing if you apply that attitude. This is the manipulation I mean. Because I know damn well you'd argue Sasuke could Genjutsu Goku or something, irrelevant to the fact that Verse Equalization either implies that Goku can be affected by Genjutsu through its methods of manipulating the Chi/Chakra in the brain to cause mind manip— or it implies that we ignore the fact Goku doesn't have Chakra, a Chakra Nervous System, or Chakra in his brain to manipulate.

You can't pick and choose.
 
It's either Goku's Chi is equalized with Chakra and the same mechanics for attacks apply, or they don't work at all. Because Goku doesn't have Chakra— this is pedantic and absurd. Just stop. You can't have the energies interact if the connections are only one sided, and always work regardless of how the verse actually handles it. I.E. Reiatsu Crush.

If the energies properly interacted, Reiatsu Crush would only apply to beings with Weaker Spiritual Energy AP or something, not "only unless you have Soul Resistance", making the verse mechanic apply irrelevant to how it's normally used and intended to be used.
 
My personal take on this would be that equalized energy should grant the mechanics of both verses. Basically interactions and resistances. If the rules currently don't work that way then the rules need to change.
 
Sir Ovens said:
My personal take on this would be that equalized energy should grant the mechanics of both verses. Basically interactions and resistances. If the rules currently don't work that way then the rules need to change.
Click to expand...
We already had a thread on this, and most people agreed to no fanfic versions of characters. As in were not giving people powers or resistances they already have.
 
No they don't Sir Ovens. If chars don't have resistances to powers they don't magically get them. This is what we decided over and over and we don't need a 50th thread on the matter when your intepretation is rejected over and over
 
How many times we need this same type of equalization thread lmao, verse equalization allow 2 different energy to interact each other but without granting new ability or resistance to each other. Thats all

U basically give verse with inferior energy source an advantage each time they fighting verse with better energy sourse.
 
So what you're arguing for is to give the other verses powers/abilities/resistances they don't normally have in their own verses.

Might as well make fanfic chars at this point.
 
I agree to not giving them powers they don't already have. What I don't agree with are resistances.
 
Characters in Naruto have a whole other nervous system. I'm not sure how this works out in the current system regarding most genjutsu. But I recall us talking about it in the last thread.
 
Sir Ovens said:
My personal take on this would be that equalized energy should grant the mechanics of both verses. Basically interactions and resistances. If the rules currently don't work that way then the rules need to change.
Click to expand...
For a record, Reiatsu don't just give u Reiatsu crush. It give u flight, can see invisible being, enhanced sense/perception, 6th sense, and resistance to soul manip

So if your verse wanna free abilities u know what verse they need to fight for.
 
Because? Some verses gives powers/resistances with their energy. You can't just pick one and not the other other.

If they don't have the resistances in their own verse then too bad.
 
For one, even Cal thinks that thread wasn't fair.

2. there's no discussion rule against it, so we can argue until we get one.

3. You assholes wanted me to make this didn't you? Now you want this topic to not be argued. Which is it? Do you want me to actually try to get it changed in a fair CRT or not? Or is it more likely that you just don't want me to challenge your idea and attack your verses? Because you wouldn't be acting so anti-discussion if you genuinely wanted me to make a fair CRT and we're willing to accept the outcome— instead you have a seizure at the thought of this crt even existing.

Just admit that this "Make a CRT or shut up" energy is just you guys trying to silence criticism. Especially when you'd rather stand by previous rulings than respect the possibility of newer ones, as evidenced by your defense of the original ruling. Hypocritical. Just tell me to shut up and be blunt about it, don't pretend that this process matters to you if you're just gonna reject the change through even the "proper methods".
 
You do realize that making powers work in circumstances they otherwise wouldn't is also adding powers right? Making Chakra work on someone who doesn't have Chakra is adding an ability. Giving someone who doesn't have a Soul in their own verse mechanics a soul just because they're human is adding a weakness, and a trait they otherwise wouldn't have. Whether the method that we agree for this working is making the anatomy of the opponent match the circumstances needed to use the power itself— like giving Goku Chakra points for Neji's Tenketsu to work, or for Goku's Ki/Chakra to run through his brain for Genjutsu to work— or we throw away the necessary methods to make their powers work, we're still changing the characters slightly to make the fight work.

The energies aren't the same. So why treat them the same in any way, and then cry about treating the verse mechanics as a whole— which are not even separate powers necessarily but just how the verse's laws of physics work— the same. Ridiculous.
 
Amexim said:
3. You assholes wanted me to make this didn't you? Now you want this topic to not be argued. Which is it? Do you want me to actually try to get it changed in a fair CRT or not? Or is it more likely that you just don't want me to challenge your idea and attack your verses? Because you wouldn't be acting so anti-discussion if you genuinely wanted me to make a fair CRT and we're willing to accept the outcome— instead you have a seizure at the thought of this crt even existing.
Click to expand...
For a record, i didn't ask u to make yet another verse equalization thread. lmao
 
1. Cal argued in the last thread as well.

2. If you want I guess.

3. You need to calm down, you're going around calling people wankers and assholes. There isn't a conspiracy going around to troll you lol.

4. Ehh no one is silencing you, i'm just saying we've had this exact thread already like a week or 2 ago. And the general consensus was were not giving people fanfic abilities and that the current system works okay.

https://vsbattles.com/vsbattles/3351962
 
Because that's is optimal way in versus thread, pretty much nothing is change in their original abilities other than chakra absorption is now work on magic and stuff like dat

It much better than to create match for ur fav verse with fanfic abilities
 
If the verse they're fighting against or in would give them resistances universal to everyone as a result of sharing that Chi/Spiritual/Magical energy, like for example, being Spiritually Aware and super spiritually powerful should make you immune to Reiatsu Crush, because otherwise Reiatsu Crush isn't working how Reiatsu Crush does. If in HxH, you can protect yourself from the murderous intent from your enemies by shrouding yourself with Chi/Aura if you're sufficiently strong enough to stand against them.

I'd argue the shit would go both ways, but I can see the problem with Goku Reiatsu crushing Aizen. That being said, Aizen shouldn't be able to Reiatsu Crush Goku under Verse Equalization, because if the energies can interact with each other, the rules for the interactions would have to be the same. Goku's vast energy makes him immune to Reiatsu Crush, because if he had Reiatsu, he would at least resist it from anyone weaker than him, even if we don't let him Reiatsu Crush others.
 
3 & 4. You were there when people told us to make a CRT, and now you're on the side of people whining about this CRT existing, and saying that they don't want to have a conversation about this again. So you know people are ******* around. And I swear. It's what I do. Yes. They're trying to get people to shut up. Who the **** wants people to make a CRT about an issue, then shows up and says the CRT shouldn't exist, and maintains a genuine desire to allow change on this wiki to happen naturally and normally, respecting the rules? You don't do that. And the current system doesn't work. We wouldn't be here if it did, worse, we would have fights won for reasons that don't even make sense intuitively. No one thinks Gon has unique Fear and Mind Manip hax to win against Goku. In fact, there's no evidence of that being the case in the manga— what is being used are false interpretations of verse mechanics that, when equalized properly for, wouldn't even be valid reasons. It's two faced as **** to say it's ok for Nen, which is the same as Chi right down to sometimes the name, to have unique traits that have in verse counters that can be replicated outside of the verse by power systems that work the exact ways necessary, but not be applicable due to it "not being the same thing", but also have powers that wouldn't work outside of their home verse apply on energies that "aren't the same thing". Pick one.
 
So when putting Goku against a Saint Seiya character, Goku instantly gains resistance to being atomized by reuniting separated atoms? And if someone puts him against a Stand user, he suddenly becomes capable of seeing and hitting non-coporeal invisible beings? Good to know.
 
1. All of you need to chill the hell out. Normally I wouldn't involve myself in something originating from the HST due to toxicity but this issue is now being considered to expand outside of that. So if insults and childishness are flung about too much, it'll become a Rule Violation. That's a more fair warning than most, one feels.

2. Energies that are roughly the same (Spiritual energy, in this exact case, it seems) are equalized. If I make a verse with some prevailing force in the cosmos that has a bit of it within each character, expanding their spiritual power as they become stronger (or, vice versa, granting them more power by increasing the spiritual power), that would equalize to another brand of soul/chi/what have you. No verse gets special treatment in this regard.
 
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