• This forum is strictly intended to be used by members of the VS Battles wiki. Please only register if you have an autoconfirmed account there, as otherwise your registration will be rejected. If you have already registered once, do not do so again, and contact Antvasima if you encounter any problems.

    For instructions regarding the exact procedure to sign up to this forum, please click here.
  • We need Patreon donations for this forum to have all of its running costs financially secured.

    Community members who help us out will receive badges that give them several different benefits, including the removal of all advertisements in this forum, but donations from non-members are also extremely appreciated.

    Please click here for further information, or here to directly visit our Patreon donations page.
  • Please click here for information about a large petition to help children in need.

Fix Verse Equalization

Status
Not open for further replies.
@Heavens Feel A power having a weakness does not require resistance to abuse that weakness. Example. I have mind manipulation of all things the color yellow. Someone comes along and is aquamarine. They don't have resistance to my mindhax. They just don't fit the qualifier for my mindhax to work.

The same premise works here. Bleach soul stuff insta-kills anyone with lesser soul energy. Someone comes along and has not-lesser soul energy. They don't fit the qualifier, so they can safely avoid the insta-kill without having any form of resistance.
 
Mr. Bambu said:
"My power not working on you doesn't mean you resist my power. It means my power isn't strong enough to work on you.
This doesn't even make any sense, if the power doesn't work on you it means your resistant to it or immune."

No it doesn't.
Click to expand...
That's depend on what power you are talking about, if it just physical thing sure, but no since reiatsu have been explicitly stated to affect the souls which always been treated as hax aka ignore durability
 
So, essentially what you're saying is that if I equalize energy, Goku would be able to use the Rasengan and that would be fanfiction right?

Well the thing is that without feats of being able to do so, he couldn't. Someone who can use Sword Logic is is different from someone who knows how to use Sword Logic.

How do I put this? If Mori Ji copies a martial art technique from another verse, and it is not in-character for him to start off with a copied martial art, we assume he uses his own martial art from the start. Likewise, if Goku now suddenly has the ability to use Rasengan, it doesn't mean he will start using it in battle, not unless it is in character for him to just use his opponent's abilities.
 
@MachTwo Hax can function in the exact same way. It's all about how the verse treats it. If the verse treats it in a certain way, we should strive to do so as well. That's simple.
 
This is ridiculous because Bleach have feats of resisting soul hax other than reistsu crust, reiatsu give you resistance to soul hax
 
bambu. reiatsu doesn't have whatever perceived weakness you think it has, (your line of reasoning is very ???) the bigger their reiatsu the stronger the soul so it overpowers weaker souls. false equivalence at it's finest. reiatsu vs reiatsu plays under the same rules, your example is entirely different stipulations.
 
That's such a non-sequitur I can't even begin to understand the reasoning behind what you just said
 
Sir Ovens said:
So, essentially what you're saying is that if I equalize energy, Goku would be able to use the Rasengan and that would be fanfiction right?
Well the thing is that without feats of being able to do so, he couldn't. Someone who can use Sword Logic is is different from someone who knows how to use Sword Logic.

How do I put this? If Mori Ji copies a martial art technique from another verse, and it is not in-character for him to start off with a copied martial art, we assume he uses his own martial art from the start. Likewise, if Goku now suddenly has the ability to use Rasengan, it doesn't mean he will start using it in battle, not unless it is in character for him to just use his opponent's abilities.
Click to expand...
Why Rasengan? he need to learn to use those abilities

>For a record, Reiatsu don't just give u Reiatsu crush. It give u flight, can see invisible being, enhanced sense/perception, 6th sense, and resistance to soul manip

All of this is passive, u get that via having a Reiatsu
 
Heavens Feel said:
bambu. reiatsu doesn't have whatever perceived weakness you think it has, (your line of reasoning is very ???) the bigger their reiatsu the stronger the soul so it overpowers weaker souls. false equivalence at it's finest. reiatsu vs reiatsu plays under the same rules, your example is entirely different stipulations.
Click to expand...
And someone else is telling me it does. Someone who I trust rather quite a lot. So explain why or stop saying "Things are this way, go away stinky smelly admin man, rawr rawr grumble grumble".
 
Also, keep in mind the explanation I'm giving is specifically about basic Nen users from Hunter X Hunter, not about any of the other powers being discussed. I'm just trying to make sure you understand how Nen works to prevent confusion.
 
"The same premise works here. Bleach soul stuff insta-kills anyone with lesser soul energy. Someone comes along and has not-lesser soul energy"

How many times must it be said this isn't true? via this anaolgy they'd scale to each other in Bleach. you're essentially saying this girl is actually 7-A, this other girl is 5-B, and this guy is around the same level.

They don't fit the qualifier, so they can safely avoid the insta-kill without having any form of resistance.

Except everyone in the series has resistance to soul manipulation, every technique revovles around it, chairs have souls, even atoms have souls.
 
No it isn't. It's going from my points to "well yeah characters in bleach resist soul hax". That has literally zero things to do with what I'm saying.

I want all of you to understand that I'm a neutral party here. Make an argument. Win me over. I don't really care about Bleach as a verse. Post a debunk or contribute to one or don't talk. Keep it civil folks.
 
Look, put it like this, if I handed you a fire hose and told you to go put out a building fire would you know how to do so? Unless one of you is secretly a firefighter, I'd assume not.

Same with powers, if Goku is given the ability to use Nen abilities or such, it doesn't mean he would be able to use them in battle. Not unless it is very in character for him to learn an unknown ability almost instantly. In which case he has power mimicry or accelerated development, two abilities that allow characters to use unknown abilities almost instantly.

Esentially, giving characters fanfiction powers is a non-argument to begin with.
 
Sigurd, you're simply asserting its Soul manipulation just because it uses the words "Soul" and "Crush" together, irrelevant to the fact that this is a very "Spiritual Energy" based verse and that talk itself isn't very specific. In a verse where my Spiritual Energy literally generates a Spiritual Force/Pressure that crushes to dust other Spiritual Pressures and Energies, me saying that I am "crushing your soul" might not be literal. I can buy Soul Succ being a Soul Manipulation thing, and I could even be charitable to you and give you Reiatsu Crush having Soul Manip properties. But that doesn't make it suddenly able to go against its own established mechanics.

When you're a being that's spiritually aware, having above average Reiryoku/Reiatsu/Spirit Energy, the Bleach Verse treats you a certain way, and certain actions from others are not strong enough to affect you depending on your power with them. In this case, the basic Soul Succ technique wasn't strong enough to affect Tatsuki. In the case of Ichigo not being Reiatsu Crushed by whatever opponent that is strong at the time, their Reiatsu Crush affect isn't strong enough to affect him.

If I were to beat you in an arm wrestle competition, me beating you in that doesn't mean I resist all physical interactions or something. It means you weren't strong enough to touch me. Say my Mind Manipulation only works on slugs and beings with next to no brainpower. If I try to mind hax you, you don't have to have a resistance to it to be unaffected by it. My mid hax isn't strong enough on its own to do anything. Do you get it now?
 
I'm genuinely flabbergasted that this is even a point of contention that it needs it's own thread.

If a girl has mind hax that only works on 3 year olds, and I'm 10 years old and I don't get mind haxed it doesn't mean I have resistance to mind hax, it means that I don't fulfill the criteria for the mind hax to even work on me.

Same thing with reiatsu crush, or nen hax. The requirement to be crushed or death haxed with nen, is that the opponent has less nen/reitasu than you. And verse equalization being a thing that exists for very obvious reasons, all of the nen/reiatsu/chakra/chi/qi/ki/fancy name for spiritual energy/etc get equalized. Meaning characters don't get resistances to the power, but they just don't fulfill the criteria to be affected by the power in the first place.
 
@Sigurd Homie, my past posts have addressed that. Soul hax resistance can also exist at the same time as the soul hax having a weakness. I know, insane concept, brace yourself for that one.

Does everyone have resistance to soul manip or is this a case of a feat being portrayed wrongly on the wiki, I wonder?
 
Sir Ovens said:
Same with powers, if Goku is given the ability to use Nen abilities or such, it doesn't mean he would be able to use them in battle. Not unless it is very in character for him to learn an unknown ability almost instantly. In which case he has power mimicry or accelerated development, two abilities that allow characters to use unknown abilities almost instantly.
Click to expand...
Well, I mean, he does, "Power Mimicry (Can easily replicate other Ki-based techniques after seeing them once)"; that's how he learnt the Kamehameha, he saw Roshi doing it, and then figured he could do it as well..
 
Idk what makes you confused
>reiatsu is soul hax and have several statement of it affected the souls
>It only work on weaker being because everyone in bleach who have higher reiatsu will have resistance to soul hax
>Said resistance to soul hax can be proven beyond they get resistance to soul hax via they can resist reiatsu crust which can affect the soul
 
And someone else is telling me it does. Someone who I trust rather quite a lot. So explain why or stop saying "Things are this way, go away stinky smelly admin man, rawr rawr grumble grumble".

i don't care who your friend is or who you trust. thats a blatant appeal to authority.

what do you mean explain it? I literally did. theres only one power system at work and the weaker of two souls is harmed. soul A can injure soul b with reiatsu crush, soul B however can get stronger and do the same to Soul A. see ichigo vs aizen.or literally any fight in the series really.
 
No. It's an appeal to "show me some evidence or don't try to convince me".
 
That's because you don't literally give them reiatsu, just make their energy can interact with other other
 
@Bambu

Yes everyone has resistance, like I said in my last post. literally every technique and the very nature of the verse revolves around the soul. I don't very much care how other series do their thing, i'm talking about Bleach and how it operates.
 
bambu, burden of proof is on you. Show some evidence the verse mechanics work the way you think they do. whatever that is.
 
I seem to remember why I don't come to these here threads much

No. Like I said. I'm a neutral party waiting to be convinced. If you put forward that it works differently than how I have been told, show me. I'm not the debater here. I'm the babysitter.
 
So it is a "weaker vs stronger" thing. Which is our point. Then why can't we use the same rules for if it does or doesn't work? If Goku wouldn't have a Reiryoku or Reiatsu or Reiki or Reimyasshurts or whatever in Bleach that would allow him to be Reiatsu Crushed, because he's too strong for it to work, like it is in Bleach, why is that not exactly what we're describing?

I'll say it better. Since In Bleach, characters who use Spiritual Energy like Goku would have above average Reiryoku, and the stronger he is at using that energy— the higher is Spirit Energy based AP is— the stronger a Bleach character would have to be to Reiatsu Crush him. Goku's energy and AP would make Reiatsu Crush not work on him because it only works on people weak enough to be affected by it. That's a weakness of Reiatsu Crush. You don't need to resist it to avoid or negate its affects. Rather it's affects aren't activating because it's not strong enough due to Goku's high ass Reiryoku thanks to Verse Equalization making his Ki into Reiryoku.
 
Didja see those screenshots up there that I posted to explain how I got the info and asked to come here to essentially tell you kind folks to stop screaming at one another? Look again.
 
MachTwo said:
>For a record, Reiatsu don't just give u Reiatsu crush. It give u flight, can see invisible being, enhanced sense/perception, 6th sense, and resistance to soul manip

All of this is passive, u get that via having a Reiatsu
Click to expand...
All things that Goku has so it's a non-argument.

If another character doesn't have these things, then they get them with verse equalization. But it does not mean they know how to use these abilities.
 
The blatant concept that people seem to be disregarding or just don't know about Bleach is that the amount of Reiatsu you have doesn't mean anything in regards to Reiatsu Crush.

The requirement to be Reiatsu Crush is that your soul resistance is not up to par.

Orihime is a character that is Tier 8 to at max Tier 7-C throughout all of Bleach; however her Soul Resistance enables her to be fine in the presence of Tier 6-5 characters. These same Tier 6-5 characters have Reiatsu feats affecting Tiers 7-A and even Tier 6 characters.

The concepts and rules of Verse Equalization allow two energies from different series to interact. However, this does not grant abilities not resistances that the equalized energies may possess. Reiatsu in Bleach grants pseudo-flight, extra senses and esoteric effects like paralysis, soul crushing or disintegration. It also grant's resistances to Soul Manipulation.
 
Because goku didn't have massive Reiryoku. He has KI which is work differently than Reiryoku and did not grant the same abilities as Reiryoku

Energy can be similar in name/nature/whatever wont make them 100% similar, like i said, if they are so similar why no one have Ki crust on the verse.
 
If you don't make the energies the same, they can't interact, for one. Genjutsu won't work because Chi and Chakra aren't the same. In order for it to work, they have to be the same, hence "equalized", and any abilities that use or involve the type of energy in the enemies body works the same on both ends, as if they were the same thing with the same rules. At least, that's how it should be, because otherwise, we're not Verse equalizing.

2. Making it so Goku can be Reiatsu Crushed with no protest despite their being a canonical reason why someone similar to him in Bleach wouldn't be Reiatsu Crushed depending on their AP/How High/Stong their Reiryoku/Reiatsu is— that's not making the energies interact. That's acting like Goku's doesn't exist. It's the opposite.
 
Sir Ovens said:
All things that Goku has so it's a non-argument.

If another character doesn't have these things, then they get them with verse equalization. But it does not mean they know how to use these abilities.
Click to expand...
They don't need too, you think ichigo need to learn to do all of that? he can do flight before even knowing how the mechanics behind it. Chad and orihime can see invisible being after they have awaked their reiatsu, no training is needed.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Similar threads

XSOULOFCINDERX
Qin Shi Huang and Hades (Record of Ragnarok) Fix
Replies
35
Views
2K
XSOULOFCINDERX
XSOULOFCINDERX
TheGreatJedi13
Verse Equalization vs Collaboration information
Replies
1
Views
453
TheGreatJedi13
TheGreatJedi13
deonment
I give my mind and SOUL (Hollow Knight SOUL CRT part 2)
Replies
23
Views
1K
deonment
deonment
LuffyRuffy46307
  • Locked
Dragon Ball Special Addition Ki
Replies
19
Views
1K
Damage3245
Damage3245
Sir_Ovens
The Absolute State of Verse Specific Powers and Abilities
Replies
36
Views
2K
Agnaa
Agnaa
Back
Top