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Interesting. But the moon Arthur cut off was a lot different. And it seems maybe in future it iwll become this, but so far, I don't think we have any direct confirmation that it's smaller. By so far, I mean in fire force.
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FINDING VALID FIRE FORCE FEATS. oh boy!! It’s a tough one.
- Thread starter PrinceofPein
- Start date
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Wellllllllllll, no. That's just one page and unfortunately it's a page where she comments on how she's literally being crushed. She tries to put up a determined front but immediately after, she gets overwhelmed again, evident by her facial expression depicting shock and balance loss, and the bleeding from her nose. Plus, the manga immediately cuts to the other brigadiers looking for alternatives, also alluding to the fact that Maki was way out of her league. Disagree on this one as it's not at all absolute.
No again. Nothing that was said actually implies such an objective claim. She was told to try and she failed, that's pretty much it. That the moon had a mass alteration does not imply that she could have done it if it was a regular moon, especially when she has no feats on that level prior to the scene. You could infer that Charon's suicide blast was 5-C in actuality but that is way too much speculation. Plus, even so, displaying such AP for that brief a moment shouldn't warrant that rating, especially when she gets totally humiliated by a much weaker-than-5-C opponent later on. Disagree.
This does not make the implication you think it does. He provided one reason why he couldn't bring the moon down, nothing suggests that it's the only reason. Moreso, if it were in range, he would obviously be able to shoot it. To destroy it though? Nothing shown prior suggests that.
Also don't get how this insane AP is consistent when this is the best Juggernaut can do against someone out for ALL of their lives. The 5-C inferences don't hold up because they got totally destroyed by attacks that were considerably weaker than 5-C. Assault fired tens of rockets and neither of them could do anything about it. Even if you were to then claim that Assault would be 5-C, Tamaki defeated him a few moments later which makes everything iffy and convoluted.
What I could agree to, however, is the justification for point 1. Maki and Hinawa would be at least High 6-A, likely far higher (to account for the unquantifiably massive amps to Charon and them), but it would be with reflection. They're second gens and rely on external thermal energy to manipulate. However, this would logically bump both Faux Assault and Tamaki to the same tier, which doesn't make sense as those feats aren't consistent and there isn't much supporting it.
What I will definitely agree to would be to bump Hinawa only to tier 6, considering he took High 6-A Charon out in what looked like 33 consecutive shots. This also sets him apart from the rest of the mid tiers based on feats. Still, it would be with the special rifles designed to contain his true power, considering he uses an uzi and a pistol usually.
Well, that's what I think. Hope this helps.
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This is definitely the case because the moon was hanging in the atmosphere prior, destroyed or disappeared after the cataclysm and created by Shinra
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i do agree maki attempting to stop the moon isnt really an ap feat for her
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Honestly IMO, I would just not use the moon for pixel scaling and assume that regardless of appearance, the moon has the same mass and weight as normal
And that the only thing's that changed is it's appearance based on perception
And that the only thing's that changed is it's appearance based on perception
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If it is that inconsistent, I wouldn't use the Moon at all. It seems like a large highball to assume it must have exactly the same mass as before.
PrinceofPein
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- #48
Most of all you said has already been addressed in the OP, but i felt I need to at least tell you. yes, Assault and tamaki scales to this, refer to the previous thread which was about scaling. And how it works is, A beats B, and C beats A, that means that C scales to A.
you cannot make a claim that Tamaki is way weaker than Maki and Hinamawa when she could hurt and take hits consistently from Assault who one shotted Maki and Hinamawa
And I dont know what you mean by insane leap to 5C, lol we had the Shinra move from tier 7 to 5A, thats more than trillions of quadrillion increase.
Thats why i linked the charon self destruct feat first to show that her reflection ability indeed scales to her stats, and it has been shown previously to scale. i originally wanted to make it a LS feat which it is still btw but thats for another thread
I mean it was only shown to be smaller when it was falling and no where else till after the end of Haumea and SBM fight where Shinra altered everything making the moon even smaller than what was portrayed when it was falling.
So looking at it, it was only a single time it was shown to be a smaller size before SBM.
PrinceofPein
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- #49
Can someone sum up or link the most relevant posts to the discussion for me please
This is just the unique artstyle, we clearly see it's still the same size as normal when compared to Earth
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So my issue with using the outer space shots to say anything about the moon is it’s physical size depends on its distance from the observer and the angular size. And it’s orientation with respect to the earth is at an unknown angle as well. Aka those outer space scans don’t tell us much of anything without some assumptions. Furthermore, we know the transmutation alters shape and size (as seen with the stars), so I’m in favor of pixel scaling the moon (as I think one of the moon calcs does). Whether that be from using angular sizes and distances or from in atmosphere shots is up to y’all.
PrinceofPein
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- #51
well I guess let me here what other people have to say but I must say Pixel scaling when we have different shots of its would make it more inconsistent
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I guess one more thing SE is very old compared to FF, so I don't think SE should be used or is valid to use in conversation of FF moon depiction. FF is the most recent depiction, so if FF is consistently X, but SE contradicts it as Y, FF would simply be a retcon to SE moon size.
PrinceofPein
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- #54
well personally for me "High 6-A, possibly 5-C" works
Let me see what other people thinks
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Is this in terms of maki? Because those like shinra and beni should outright be 5-B and at least 5-B so if this is in terms of the maki scaling I'm fine with that
PrinceofPein
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- #57
Yes’m just Maki and those who scales to her
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Because Maki crumbled under the pressure of the moon? Nope. Maki got crushed on both attempts, lost balance immediately and bled. The attempt to justify her alleged 5-C revision makes no sense. Why would someone scale to moon level for getting literally overwhelmed by its pressure? Too much speculation, too many details being ignored and not enough logic, not sure when that became acceptable.
I didn't say the leap was insane, the AP itself is insane (=as in, simply very massive).
PrinceofPein
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- #59
I honestly feel like you did not read the OP
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I literally dissected it. Well, point out what I'm supposedly missing.
PrinceofPein
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- #61
The points?
Take maki feat as an example
You said she got crushed but then neglected the fact that she stood up and for a moment before she got crushed again
And also she only got crushed cause the moon mass has been increased to be at least the mass of the earth
Which would be 81 times more than what she thought was coming at her.
So like I said everything has been explained in the OP
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Points I addressed and debunked as speculative?
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I may have agreed too soon, i just got back from the chapter you guys are talking about
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It's almost like you're saying you could lift a small car because a truck crushed you when you attempted lifting it, isn't that purely assumption
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More like you can lift a small car because you didn't die the first time you attempted to lift a truck.
PrinceofPein
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- #66
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That seems fine.
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I dont see what the problem is here. Maki got crushed by a moon that had mass equal to that of earth but whether she pushed it back or held on for a moment isn't this just a LS feat and not AP?
PrinceofPein
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- #69
Second generations ability to control things scales to their stats e.g. reflection and deflection. Maki was trying to use hers to deflect the moon
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Oh, I see, forgot about this. Then she should get a possibly rating then as I see nothing wrong with this.
I don't agree for juggernaut though, it's just too iffy
PrinceofPein
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Powercliffing? Thats a term I'm not familiar with
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That’s fine.
PrinceofPein
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- #75
Bumping one last time before the next thread
Arkenis
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when is next thread? who posting it?
PrinceofPein
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- #77
Me, this weekend
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WWWWWW PFP
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Just go to the fire brigade discussion thread and you'll know literally just interact with the community
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