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Well they did confirm that it speeds up all the movement of the character, so with some practice you can quickly slice down opposition
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Final Fantasy discussion thread III: Riding the Eternal Wind
- Thread starter PaChi2
- Start date
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The equipment and Materia are together now. Neat and tidy. Follows the old style of a Weapon, an Armor and a single Accesory.
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Man time flies by, they look awesome. Barret looks so darn badass
Not related to anything, when I first saw the FFVII cover I thought he was in the middle of a snowland due to all the white fading >_>
Not related to anything, when I first saw the FFVII cover I thought he was in the middle of a snowland due to all the white fading >_>
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Yup, she looks fantastic.
Though he'll likely look the same but more detailed, can't wait to see how Nanaki will look
Though he'll likely look the same but more detailed, can't wait to see how Nanaki will look
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I hope they make her f***ing terrifying
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IIRC, then you'll have fun with side missions
@Imaginym: I think it's just the lighting
@Imaginym: I think it's just the lighting
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WOW.
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I'm not sorry and I find it funny....ZephyrosOmega said:
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OOF, gonna need an Elixir for that Firaga.
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Why you have to crush his heart like that....
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Would be cool tbh but if a Phoenix down couldn't bring her back I doubt a different route would.PaChi2 said:
Not even joking anymore Square killed her hard and they seem death set to stay on that mindset.
Unless they pull a ffxv with like a million other route to take.
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It probably won't be canon for obvious reasons
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Yeah, aside royally messing all the story of the from Disc 2 onwards as well as AC and many background events. Aerith needs to stay dead for the story to work.
And to be honest, what made her death so poweful was that Square had the guts to kill her off for real in such a sudden, cruel and undeserved way. No big heroic sacrifice, no speeches about the future or friendship, one moment she is just gone. And while killing off characters was hardly new, it had a catch... it was either a character introduced to die who was, for the lack of a better word, "expendable" in a way (a minor character, someone you didn't get to know too well, someone who had their story over, etc) or too powerful or wise to stay alive so they had to be gone. And of course, reviving them rendering the whole death moot. Aerith was one of Cloud's potential love interest, the peppy white mage of the group, someone who was in the middle of her journey, who the game had spent most of its time focusing on trying to endear the players to.
One of the themes the team wanted to put into VII was the ephemereal nature of life, how one day you just will be gone, how we come and go just like that. Aerith's death is the poignant moment when that is hammered down into you as the player. Everything about Aerith's death was meant to convey this and go against the usual take on death that fiction regularly used.
While I agree that an "Aerith Lives" DLC would sell like hotcakes, it would cleave the fandom in half and it would be considered pandering that shoots down the original message for the sake of pleasing fans. VII Remake is trying to be its own thing, true, but it's also recapturing the essence of the original game in a myriad of ways that had been forgotten in the Compilation: the societal message, the dark humor, doing away with the exaggerated personalities (emo-Cloud, Martyr Aerith...), the fantasy aspects, the silly monster designs mixed with horror elements, toning down the angst for what seems to be psychological themes, etc.
Phoenix Downs don't revive the dead by the way, at least not in VII, they save you from near death, but if you are fatally wounded you're kaput. Cloud mentions it in a tutorial.
And to be honest, what made her death so poweful was that Square had the guts to kill her off for real in such a sudden, cruel and undeserved way. No big heroic sacrifice, no speeches about the future or friendship, one moment she is just gone. And while killing off characters was hardly new, it had a catch... it was either a character introduced to die who was, for the lack of a better word, "expendable" in a way (a minor character, someone you didn't get to know too well, someone who had their story over, etc) or too powerful or wise to stay alive so they had to be gone. And of course, reviving them rendering the whole death moot. Aerith was one of Cloud's potential love interest, the peppy white mage of the group, someone who was in the middle of her journey, who the game had spent most of its time focusing on trying to endear the players to.
One of the themes the team wanted to put into VII was the ephemereal nature of life, how one day you just will be gone, how we come and go just like that. Aerith's death is the poignant moment when that is hammered down into you as the player. Everything about Aerith's death was meant to convey this and go against the usual take on death that fiction regularly used.
While I agree that an "Aerith Lives" DLC would sell like hotcakes, it would cleave the fandom in half and it would be considered pandering that shoots down the original message for the sake of pleasing fans. VII Remake is trying to be its own thing, true, but it's also recapturing the essence of the original game in a myriad of ways that had been forgotten in the Compilation: the societal message, the dark humor, doing away with the exaggerated personalities (emo-Cloud, Martyr Aerith...), the fantasy aspects, the silly monster designs mixed with horror elements, toning down the angst for what seems to be psychological themes, etc.
Phoenix Downs don't revive the dead by the way, at least not in VII, they save you from near death, but if you are fatally wounded you're kaput. Cloud mentions it in a tutorial.
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Completely agree with TartaChocholate and her death was really well handled, it reminded the same way when Kefka won one in FF6, and the world was basically a post apocalyptic world with a dictator at its head and our heroes were devastated.
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>nd to be honest, what made her death so poweful was that Square had the guts to kill her off for real in such a sudden, cruel and undeserved way. No big heroic sacrifice, no speeches about the future or friendship,
Lol they glorified Zack's death in CC so much compared to the original game so they wil likely will do the same for Aertih.
IMO Aerith's death was good for shocking value but nothing more. You literally go on snow boarding after she gets killed and the party mentioned her 2 or 3 times for the rest of the game so she's essentially forgotten. The elements of "shock" is also gone from her character now since everyone and their mother knows she dies and it won't hit hard like in the original game. It's also annoying how her character is defined by her tragic fate for many fans so I am actually on the boat of wanting to change that in the remake. At least the way she dies, make it near the of the game at least.
Just throwing my 2 cents there. Taking away one of your party members mid-game through is also bad gameplay wise.
Lol they glorified Zack's death in CC so much compared to the original game so they wil likely will do the same for Aertih.
IMO Aerith's death was good for shocking value but nothing more. You literally go on snow boarding after she gets killed and the party mentioned her 2 or 3 times for the rest of the game so she's essentially forgotten. The elements of "shock" is also gone from her character now since everyone and their mother knows she dies and it won't hit hard like in the original game. It's also annoying how her character is defined by her tragic fate for many fans so I am actually on the boat of wanting to change that in the remake. At least the way she dies, make it near the of the game at least.
Just throwing my 2 cents there. Taking away one of your party members mid-game through is also bad gameplay wise.
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To be fair, while I do like better Zack's original death, I can see why it had to be this grandiose last stand. Had they gone with the original version for many it would have felt like a cop-out to take him out given he had to canonically die, as there was little foreshadowing of it (aside knowing it will happen if you played the original game) and CC dealt with whole themes of heroism, honor, sacrifice for comrades, etc. They had a different beast in their hands, so they needed to treat it accordingly.
She isn't forgotten dude. I agree the Snowboarding minigame was horribly placed before the whirlwind maze, but once Cloud rejoins the quest for Holy and Aerith's sacrifice are wholly acknowledged as the hope she gave them and they had to carry on for her, not only the Planet, the entire second visit with Bugenhagen to the Forgotten City was to understand why Aerith left and had to die and that's how you find about Holy. Conversations in the Highwind also mention feelings of the cast regarding her at several moments and the final fight with Sephy is to "set Aerith's prayer free". The Reunion also reveals that Cloud's drive to go to Sephiroth was essentially Sephy seeding his anger and hatred to get the black materia (not natural emotions, rather imprinted ones). They can play up the loss of her without falling into overdoing it, though.
The way her death has overtaken her character is kinda like the Emo-Cloud issue... is how the fans latched to it and never let go rather than the character not having personality; stuff like her street smarts, flirtiness, sarcastic, ruthless vibes comes as a shock to those who haven't played the original game. I mean, the chick was scamming guys outside a brothel with her flowers and threatened Don Corneo with ripping off his balls. There's also his feelings of loneliness and sadness when finding out she's the last Cetra on when confronting issues related to Zack. But everything is meshed together and nothing is forced upon. This aside the obvious things like the sweet, caring and sunny attitude. However, Squeenix from AC onwards went with the whole martyr thing and it stuck, all mentions to Aerith were about her death, her innocence (which is kinda laughable in hindsight) and every shot of her were with her flowers or in prayer position. They fed that as well.
Yo do have a point with the surprise factor being gone at this point, this is "Luke I am your father" lever of well known spoiler. I guess Squeenix has to choose between trying to surprise the players or just keep the original and play the feelings of loss (many people do still find the scene quite powerful). Though it's possible for them turning the scene into a much more melodramatic version without Sakaguchi's input (Kitase has a very cinema-like focus, Nojima loves peppering angst as seen with On the Way to a Smile, Advent Children and Kids are Alright and Nomura... is pretty over the top)
It's true that it can be an issue for gameplay as well, especially given how now character are being given very distinctive roles and playstyles in the game. But given the multi game release, perhaps her death will be at the end of a particular chapter. Who knows.
Or perhaps Sephiroth kills Caith Sith and the cast lets him destroy the world as thanks
She isn't forgotten dude. I agree the Snowboarding minigame was horribly placed before the whirlwind maze, but once Cloud rejoins the quest for Holy and Aerith's sacrifice are wholly acknowledged as the hope she gave them and they had to carry on for her, not only the Planet, the entire second visit with Bugenhagen to the Forgotten City was to understand why Aerith left and had to die and that's how you find about Holy. Conversations in the Highwind also mention feelings of the cast regarding her at several moments and the final fight with Sephy is to "set Aerith's prayer free". The Reunion also reveals that Cloud's drive to go to Sephiroth was essentially Sephy seeding his anger and hatred to get the black materia (not natural emotions, rather imprinted ones). They can play up the loss of her without falling into overdoing it, though.
The way her death has overtaken her character is kinda like the Emo-Cloud issue... is how the fans latched to it and never let go rather than the character not having personality; stuff like her street smarts, flirtiness, sarcastic, ruthless vibes comes as a shock to those who haven't played the original game. I mean, the chick was scamming guys outside a brothel with her flowers and threatened Don Corneo with ripping off his balls. There's also his feelings of loneliness and sadness when finding out she's the last Cetra on when confronting issues related to Zack. But everything is meshed together and nothing is forced upon. This aside the obvious things like the sweet, caring and sunny attitude. However, Squeenix from AC onwards went with the whole martyr thing and it stuck, all mentions to Aerith were about her death, her innocence (which is kinda laughable in hindsight) and every shot of her were with her flowers or in prayer position. They fed that as well.
Yo do have a point with the surprise factor being gone at this point, this is "Luke I am your father" lever of well known spoiler. I guess Squeenix has to choose between trying to surprise the players or just keep the original and play the feelings of loss (many people do still find the scene quite powerful). Though it's possible for them turning the scene into a much more melodramatic version without Sakaguchi's input (Kitase has a very cinema-like focus, Nojima loves peppering angst as seen with On the Way to a Smile, Advent Children and Kids are Alright and Nomura... is pretty over the top)
It's true that it can be an issue for gameplay as well, especially given how now character are being given very distinctive roles and playstyles in the game. But given the multi game release, perhaps her death will be at the end of a particular chapter. Who knows.
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- Thread starter
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Zack's death being the original wouldnt make sense.
After having Zack defeat godlike enemies you cant have 3 random dudes shooting him to death without further context. It was needed an army.
An "aerith lives" dlc wouldnt be a big deal, just like XV's alternative timeline thing.
After having Zack defeat godlike enemies you cant have 3 random dudes shooting him to death without further context. It was needed an army.
An "aerith lives" dlc wouldnt be a big deal, just like XV's alternative timeline thing.
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Zack being killed by 3 grunts was a big plot hole to begin with so I actually like the change. Heck even when he faced the Shinra army the story implied that he was sloppy due to being in a coma for 4 years hence why they can even kill him. Zack was one of the strongest SOLDIER firs class.
Aerith was forgotten IMO beside the snow boarding thing, the story almost immediately jump into Cloud identity crisis plot which switch the story to him and then takes Cloud himself out for other party members to shine, I am pretty sure the party mentioned her like 2 times before the end of the game where she saves the planet and Cloud saying he want to go to the after life to see her despite his childhood sweetheart being right besides him "what a douche lol"
You are making a good point really, but it's just annoying how when ever her character is mentioned her death is brought up as well, you get me? Like, everytime remake Aerith do something cool or looks cute you have many fans going "Oh no! it's gonna be so sad when she dies!" which really annoys me hence the reason I want SE to do something with her + like you said her death is so well known.
It's made worse because she's the only healer in the party and once she's gone it's kinda hard to fill in her place.
Aerith was forgotten IMO beside the snow boarding thing, the story almost immediately jump into Cloud identity crisis plot which switch the story to him and then takes Cloud himself out for other party members to shine, I am pretty sure the party mentioned her like 2 times before the end of the game where she saves the planet and Cloud saying he want to go to the after life to see her despite his childhood sweetheart being right besides him "what a douche lol"
You are making a good point really, but it's just annoying how when ever her character is mentioned her death is brought up as well, you get me? Like, everytime remake Aerith do something cool or looks cute you have many fans going "Oh no! it's gonna be so sad when she dies!" which really annoys me hence the reason I want SE to do something with her + like you said her death is so well known.
It's made worse because she's the only healer in the party and once she's gone it's kinda hard to fill in her place.
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Also, please correct me if I am wrong but wasn't there an interview where the desvs stated that they wanted Aerith death at the end of disc 2 rather than Disc1? The remake is trying to be it own thing so I am hoping for SOME change.
I won't ask for change her fate "you can do that in a What-if DLC" but at least make her present for majority of the story.
Heck, her romance with Cloud doesn't even make sense since she barely got to know the dude before she got killed. Likewise, Cloud being so sad over her death in other FF media comes kinda weak because he never made it past first round with her.
I won't ask for change her fate "you can do that in a What-if DLC" but at least make her present for majority of the story.
Heck, her romance with Cloud doesn't even make sense since she barely got to know the dude before she got killed. Likewise, Cloud being so sad over her death in other FF media comes kinda weak because he never made it past first round with her.
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Truth to be told, Zack dying to bullets from grunts in itself is an inconsistance if you consider he took the Exaflare and the Judgment Arrow and then won those fights no worse for wear And the infantry rifles are not like Vincent, Barret or Yazoo's gunfire which come from customized firearms and you can make the point "it comes from a superhuman so their gun must have special properties". As Zero mentions, there was some mentions that go on Zack losing his edge due to the coma, they could have played with that to justify Zack suddenly getting weak to the point of falling to a few bullets, but as I mentioned, CC was not about life being short, but rather heroism and Zack was built as this ideal yet tragic hero. Even if it had been well explained and foreshadowed, a cruel and sudden death would have come as cheap and frustating rather than heart rending and with a feeling of loss.
I can't speak for XV but, trust me on this one the VII fandom is pretty divided when it comes to the key scenes of the original, especially after the effects the Compilation had and the perceived "pandering" with their characters and plot elements.
Zero: I... can see your point, but that's not the characters fault, most of the fans not letting go of it (kinda like when a character is stuck with a meme). And as I mentioned, doesn't help that Squeenix emphasized her martyrdom over memories of Aerith being herself.
Yeah, took a look at some unused files and ideas from the original VII concept, apparently Aerith was originally going to die at the Northern Cave. That would explain the out of place snowboarding. There's frankly a lot of things that were changed for different issues, not only change of ideas, but constraitns, production issues, censorship of the time, time limitations, space and all.
Oooh boy, when i was researching for the profiles I came across documents and threads discussing the love triangle. There were essays involved defending their couples, citating interviews, guidebooks and analyzing quotes from developers on unrelated matters. My personal stance is that CloudxAerith was kinda like a fairytale romance, a quick but powerful infatuation that struck them both and was played ideally, but it was shallow initally as it was based on Aerith's feelings based on how Cloud was this cool guy who resembled Zack (back in the day at least, before CC established Zack's character as very different) and Aerith playing the sunny magical girl bringing joy to the morose Cloud, however it started to develop into something more genuine when Aerith realized how much Cloud kept locked in him (or thought he did) and wanted to know the real him and Cloud was slowly opening his more sensitive and caring side one her. All was good until Sephirova got trigger happy.
I don't think they had little development, but... it depends on relationship values (if you played up for Tifa a good chunk of Aerith's good moments and connections are lost, for example) and we have to consider this was back in the day as well, interactions would keep growing and evolving in games but were kinda limited to a couple of scenes for the most part.
I can't speak for XV but, trust me on this one the VII fandom is pretty divided when it comes to the key scenes of the original, especially after the effects the Compilation had and the perceived "pandering" with their characters and plot elements.
Zero: I... can see your point, but that's not the characters fault, most of the fans not letting go of it (kinda like when a character is stuck with a meme). And as I mentioned, doesn't help that Squeenix emphasized her martyrdom over memories of Aerith being herself.
Yeah, took a look at some unused files and ideas from the original VII concept, apparently Aerith was originally going to die at the Northern Cave. That would explain the out of place snowboarding. There's frankly a lot of things that were changed for different issues, not only change of ideas, but constraitns, production issues, censorship of the time, time limitations, space and all.
Oooh boy, when i was researching for the profiles I came across documents and threads discussing the love triangle. There were essays involved defending their couples, citating interviews, guidebooks and analyzing quotes from developers on unrelated matters. My personal stance is that CloudxAerith was kinda like a fairytale romance, a quick but powerful infatuation that struck them both and was played ideally, but it was shallow initally as it was based on Aerith's feelings based on how Cloud was this cool guy who resembled Zack (back in the day at least, before CC established Zack's character as very different) and Aerith playing the sunny magical girl bringing joy to the morose Cloud, however it started to develop into something more genuine when Aerith realized how much Cloud kept locked in him (or thought he did) and wanted to know the real him and Cloud was slowly opening his more sensitive and caring side one her. All was good until Sephirova got trigger happy.
I don't think they had little development, but... it depends on relationship values (if you played up for Tifa a good chunk of Aerith's good moments and connections are lost, for example) and we have to consider this was back in the day as well, interactions would keep growing and evolving in games but were kinda limited to a couple of scenes for the most part.
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Well if you guys want comfort the Japanese voice actor of Sephiroth was the voice over of the dub version of obi wan Star wars revenge of the sith and padme voice over was actually Aerith.
So yeah Sephi tried to save Aerith in an other life.
So yeah Sephi tried to save Aerith in an other life.
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I mean, Zack defeated a powered up version of Angele and Genisi " both are respected first class SOLDIERS" the only guy Zack fell short of was Sephy himself so I guess anything would have been underwhelming either way.
Don't get into the romance stuff lol. SE has been very indecisive when it comes to Clouds love interest, the original game play back and fourth between the 2 and give you the choice although Cloud and Aerith have much more flirty tone than Tifa and Cloud almost immediately warmup up to Aerith despite acting like an sshole even to Tifa beforehand.
Aerith gets killed so Tifa supposedly wins by default but then we find out Cloud is still hangd out on Aerith "watch the epilogue" so it seems he loved Aerith after all, only for the completion to push the Cloud x Tifa ship the hardway and instead ship Aerith with Zack who is now the coolest guy ever! But then again, if you look into it, in about every other FF media Cloud is so hanged up on Aerith and ignore Tifa for the most part "see world of final fantasy and Kingdom Hearts series" despite fangirls over glorifying Cloud and Tifa ship, the two never kiss or even held hands on screen!
Ultimately the dating mechanic in FFVII didn't grant for anything since Yuffie herself is a possible love interest for Cloud "The only one who kiss him actually" but she's completely ignore by SE in that regard.
Don't get into the romance stuff lol. SE has been very indecisive when it comes to Clouds love interest, the original game play back and fourth between the 2 and give you the choice although Cloud and Aerith have much more flirty tone than Tifa and Cloud almost immediately warmup up to Aerith despite acting like an sshole even to Tifa beforehand.
Aerith gets killed so Tifa supposedly wins by default but then we find out Cloud is still hangd out on Aerith "watch the epilogue" so it seems he loved Aerith after all, only for the completion to push the Cloud x Tifa ship the hardway and instead ship Aerith with Zack who is now the coolest guy ever! But then again, if you look into it, in about every other FF media Cloud is so hanged up on Aerith and ignore Tifa for the most part "see world of final fantasy and Kingdom Hearts series" despite fangirls over glorifying Cloud and Tifa ship, the two never kiss or even held hands on screen!
Ultimately the dating mechanic in FFVII didn't grant for anything since Yuffie herself is a possible love interest for Cloud "The only one who kiss him actually" but she's completely ignore by SE in that regard.
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None of this changes the fact that mah boy Zack couldn't hit it after 4 years of Coma ;u;
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That's what I mean with exploitation and pandering with the characters. Aerith's sacrifice and Cloud's heart bleeding (which was a very popular point for many fans back in the day, with the whole tragic heartbroken hero angle) was being milked for all it's worth and not, I dunno, happy memories of Cloud and Aerith together, reminiscence of pleasant things, it was essentially the whole angst aspect being drilled into the fans. It made sense in hinsight in AC thanks to later materials, but it got tiresome with that particular point and Cloud's angst being the focus in all of Cloud's appearances. I know I am being annoyingly insistent on this, but while Nomura takes the blunt of the criticism, Kazuhige Nojima was the scenario writer of AC. This not a stab at him, since he has written for well loved games (original VII, X, Crisis Core), but he did so working together with other people, when left by himself the guy can be way too melodramatic to the point it can get hard to stomach. That was my biggest issue with On the Way to Smile (where every focus Chapter, except Denzel's, was about the PoV character having an existencial crisis, with stuff like "sins of my past", "pain in my heart", "hate myself" or other heart bleeds being exploited without mercy) and The Kids Are Alright (most of Evan's narration is him angsting or whining how he feels weak, inadecuate, insecure or lamenting one thing or another).
In the end Yuffie has more of a vibe with Vincent >_> if anything thanks to DoC, since her date is treated as little more than a gag. While Cloud and Tifa do have some important moments together, and a good potential as a "grounded" couple with issues and difficulties that get through thick and thin in the end (Cloud even refers to Tifa and Denzel as his family in Kids are Alright), I think it was botched due to wanting to focus more on the dramatic aspect of how the difficulties they were facing, Cloud being troubled, Tifa struggling to keep things together, but never really bothered to give them sweet moments together aside a couple of key ones.
One things that pains me to say as a CloudxTifa fan is that, despite how much Squeenix tries to push them as childhood friends, they were NOT friends. It's actually a plot point discovered in Cloud's mind, Cloud had a crush on Tifa and wanted to fit in Tifa's circle of friends to know her better, but he failed due to his issues and Tifa barely knew Cloud and never payed much attention to him. It wasn't until Cloud told her he was going to go to SOLDIER that Tifa really noticed Cloud and the promised they made was more on Tifa liking the idea of having a knight in shining armor rather than Cloud being special, Cloud accepted because the situation kinda made him to. And if you get REALLY cynical, Tifa developed feelings for Cloud when she thought he could become famous, Cloud seems stubbornly attached to what was a child's naive crush and Tifa put up with a lot for what comes as something really shallow. I really do wonder if this was retconned or Squeenix just glosses it over. But these two really need more development in a positive way, not just suffering together.
ZackxCissnei all the way! >=( Stop spreading tragedy and misery and balance things out already!
In the end Yuffie has more of a vibe with Vincent >_> if anything thanks to DoC, since her date is treated as little more than a gag. While Cloud and Tifa do have some important moments together, and a good potential as a "grounded" couple with issues and difficulties that get through thick and thin in the end (Cloud even refers to Tifa and Denzel as his family in Kids are Alright), I think it was botched due to wanting to focus more on the dramatic aspect of how the difficulties they were facing, Cloud being troubled, Tifa struggling to keep things together, but never really bothered to give them sweet moments together aside a couple of key ones.
One things that pains me to say as a CloudxTifa fan is that, despite how much Squeenix tries to push them as childhood friends, they were NOT friends. It's actually a plot point discovered in Cloud's mind, Cloud had a crush on Tifa and wanted to fit in Tifa's circle of friends to know her better, but he failed due to his issues and Tifa barely knew Cloud and never payed much attention to him. It wasn't until Cloud told her he was going to go to SOLDIER that Tifa really noticed Cloud and the promised they made was more on Tifa liking the idea of having a knight in shining armor rather than Cloud being special, Cloud accepted because the situation kinda made him to. And if you get REALLY cynical, Tifa developed feelings for Cloud when she thought he could become famous, Cloud seems stubbornly attached to what was a child's naive crush and Tifa put up with a lot for what comes as something really shallow. I really do wonder if this was retconned or Squeenix just glosses it over. But these two really need more development in a positive way, not just suffering together.
ZackxCissnei all the way! >=( Stop spreading tragedy and misery and balance things out already!
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I am certainly sure he died without really getting to get it on deeper with anyone, but who knows. I simply like reminiscing about Zack and feeling sad reminding myself about the ending where the Combat Wheel degrades moment by moment, only to remain stubbornly stuck on Aerith.
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