in your very first post you accused me of being a BB fanboy even though I don't like her at all.
Extella BB getting in control of an inferior Moon Cell means nothing. we saw Regalia Servants with the power of Extella's Moon Cell and it was haxless fodder that could get taken down by Top Servants with basic Servant parameters.
Why is the mooncell suddenly inferior, regalia servants not being as haxed as BB doesn't mean the mooncell is worse, that's a horrid jump in logic
why didn't the Regalia Servants have access to all of the abilities the Moon Cell records? why didn't they get Ten Crowns?
Because Ten Crowns is BB's ability, and who's to say the regalia servants wouldn't get the records if, I don't know, their power wasn't split between 3 rings or something, mayhaps its because it wasn't designed to give that level of control either as that negates the purpose of the mooncell, crazy I know.
even BB got it before fusing with the Moon Cell. even THEY got it when not fused with the Moon Cell. yet they clearly don't have it with authority over the Moon Cell and can get damaged by normal people. it's clear what controlling the Moon Cell entails is vastly different than what it is in the original.
Controlling the mooncell in different ways doesn't mean the entire mooncell is different, rather than give complete control, the regalia simply makes them an administrator, you know, like Archimedes, not BB level control.
it said she got her authority from the goddesses she compiled.
She still wasn't compared to them, she just simply had their data, and through that their authority
that doesn't mean anything. it's just a name. GO uses things from Extella like Sefar. Extella's power levels also match up better with GO, unlike Extra.
Your only argument for this being true is the regalia not making people BB level, when if you look into the ring at all, it makes perfect sense as its currently split into 3, and was never meant to give that level of power, as we see an administrator and they don't have that level of power. Someone like BB was never supposed to happen in the mooncell, why would it give someone else her level of control, when it negates the entire purpose of its existence "an impartial observer who doesn't have emotions" if one person had absolute control over it, it's entire function fails.
The Kiara from the event explicitly merged with the one from the CCC incident, you can't just decide that doesn't count because you think CCC is entirely separate from everything.
GO cannot work if it scaled to Extra. 99.9% of the cast would apparently be useless in all aspects in GO if Beasts were really that strong and fast.
I hope you understand that the entire cast bar a few people
is useless against Beasts.
Goetia: Solomon erases him, the pillar fights are kinda odd but it can be implied that the Servants are in a Heroic Spirit form, or closer to Gilgamesh from the end of Babylonia considering they summoned themselves from the throne just like him there
Tiamat: Had a 70 step plan with the help of 3 goddesses and Merlin, had a grand impose death on her, and had Gilgamesh use Enuma Elish and she's back anyway
Kiara: Had to be nerfed 70000 times to even be fought
Kama: Had to abuse special things to stand a chance, while she was underestimating us
None of these fights just have random Servants help, it's the few people who do scale that deal with it
yes and the core as well. both the Far Side and the core is the only place where all of the multiversal stuff comes from.
This just isn't true, but that's not relevant here
how the Universe of Record's higher dimensions are treated isn't explained like in CCC. and it's clear Tiamat isn't multiversal, unless you think all of the other Beasts are, which makes no sense.
Why wouldn't it make sense, you haven't actually given a reason, the number of people who actually fight Beasts are remarkably small
and even if she is, she certainly isn't 8-D just because she vaguely has a higher-D statement. that's 4-D by the standards of this wiki.
No she's 8-D because of scaling not just because of a vague statement.
To add onto the something besides the scaling, let's think of it this way, if BB has 8d power, and this even partially came from part of Tiamat's power, how is Tiamat not 8d? Adding on various explicitly weaker goddesses to a portion of Tiamat couldn't boost her from 4d like you think she is, to 8d which her power helped bring BB to. So either way she'd scale without a directly scaling chain between the CCC incident and FGO (which, funnily enough, exists)
ugh, the TM wiki removed it in the references section that was an interview, so until I find it, here's still proof that she isn't from Tsukihime.
I explained this above, nothing says this isn't the same Arc as normal, in fact the line from her profile(?) where it mentions her normal master is Shiki, implies she is. What's being said is that the events of Tsukihime where she gets her powers back, and DAAs roam free through the city, can't occur because Extra contradicts it (not only is this line questionable as it comes from an interview where they said the mooncell only exists in Extra which is false, but this doesn't even mean Arc herself isn't the same)
Extra also implies that perhaps Extra Arcueid was created by the Moon Cell
this is in the details section of her matrix.
A rumor is pretty bad as evidence for this, especially when the mooncell attempts to reject her existence
wrong.
saying Tsukihime Arcueid is above Extra Arcueid makes almost everyone from Tsukihime 1-C with immeasurable speed.
Incorrect, this would only be post Tsukihime at 50%, or more likely, after some amount of rest even further past that, meaning that she scales to quite literally no one
Sion damaged a fully healed Arcueid after Tsukihime and survived her attacks. a weaker avatar of Nanaya (Tatari) toyed with her casually until she became Archetype-Earth.
We don't use Melty Blood scaling for good reason rn. It's impossible to decide what actually happened because it's a fighting game without a main story, just a bunch of ladders, otherwise everyone would have already scaled to Red Arc or Dust of Osiris
Akiha in the Kohaku Route is stated to be above a rampaging Arcueid, which would be her at full power.
Incorrect, Arcueid at this point is still 9-A, rampaging or not doesn't suddenly put her at full power as even if one argues she stops holding back (which isn't true for her rampaging anyway), she still is outright missing power from Roa
and this is backed up by an even weaker Akiha beating a fully healed Arcueid later on Melty Blood
Again, Melty Blood scaling is bad for numerous reasons and not used, at best some statements are because those can be true without trying to decide which ladder is true, ans Arc isn't fully healed during it anyway, it takes place too close to Tsukihime for that
so are these characters and many other (basically all) Tsukihime characters 1-C with immeasurable speed? absolutely not.
Correct they're not, because we don't use Melty Blood
then you either haven't been reading or understanding what i've been saying.
never stated anywhere that her authority would be the same if her sanity was restored. she is stated to be able to use the Moon Cell as her reality marble and the core is apart of her normally, yet she cannot do this while insane as a Berserker in conjunction with Gatou's delusions of her nerfing her further.
Where is the part about her using it as a reality marble or the core as part of herself?
If you're arguing it's not stated her authority would be the same when her sanity is restored, why is it being argued it would be different? Her limits under Gatou are to her skill Ultimate One and her general abilities sure, this doesn't have to do with the mooncell core or anything. What issues are actually caused either way if she is or isn't the same level of authority
there doesn't need to be a mention. BB has star rank stats. the MMC Servants can hold their own against her, which would be impossible with normal stats.bthat means the only conclusion is that they have star rank stats. why would the writers giver her star rank stats if it had absolutely no bearing on her power or the people who can fight her?
I mean, star isn't an actual value it's just meant to represent her overwhelming cheat power. A level of power reached through the MMC, so it's no longer a cheat level of power in comparison, they don't necessarily have star stats, and that shouldn't exactly be assumed without proof.
Saber Venus does not have star rank stats, who can defeat Sefar who is a threat to the Moon Cell.
That's not inconsistent though. We can, for the sake of this, ignore my explanation above as to how the MMC people could have won without star rank. So the Sefar defeated her is a weakened 3rd stage Sefar, who threatens the mooncell through her power and abilities. Saber Venus has the power of the full regalia, an entire Goddess, the Photon Ray (which also has the power of the Umbral Star), and energy from a higher plane
At this point, her actual parameters could not matter any less, her actual strength far surpasses what's shown as her parameters, which is backed by the statement of her being the strongest servant there (something not true if you only look at her stats), her parameters clearly just don't matter.
and top Servants do not have star rank stats either, who are a threat to Regalia users who wield a large portion of the Moon Cell's power.
They're admins and nowhere near BB level, they just have a ring that gives them admin privileges and that's it, they aren't mega amped constantly or something
and like I said before, it being called Extra means nothing when GO seems to follow Extella logic and the fact it quite literally cannot scale to Extra without the story and everything we've been shown breaking.
Its called and shown to be Extra, your only reasons for saying it makes the story break is "I don't like these people being this strong, it means normal Servants can't have helped" which is absolutely true, they never could help.
please tell me how Servants can hold off immeasurable speed Tier 1 beings?
They can't
that is a solid explanation, but the other one is the one me and the others were discussing earlier. Nasuverse is not one unified canon anymore
This has both had multiple statements contradict it, and is supported by nothing but you not liking the level of power to scale between them
unrestricted Extra Arcueid >>>>>>>Berserker Arcueid with her sanity restored that is a threat to Amaterasu >>>>>>>> The Extra Servants > Berserker Arcueid without her sanity restored, which is the one they fought. your logic dictates that normal Servants without any special hax or multiversal amps beat a Moon Cell+ level being. i don't need to explain why that makes no sense.
Why would his logic dictate that though? The Arcueid that's defeated is super heavily nerfed, I'm pretty sure it's directly stated that normally no one would be able to match her if not for Gatou
the only thing the Moon Cell grants the HGW victor is access to the Moon Cell core where they temporarily become one with it and can grant any wish they want. there is no giving the victor some ring of authority that gives them a fraction of the Moon Cell's power to defend against the Umbral Star.
The Regalia being given isn't contradictory though, it's just an extra detail added. In Extra all that was said is that they are able to enter the core and get a wish, and that's the end of it, we never hear about what happens after you get a wish. In Extella it's just said that in addition to that, they get the ring
the entire cast of Tsukihime by the time ofMelty Blood is not 1-C with immeasurable speed. you are arguing this indirectly since there are characters that can fight normal Arcueid and even beat her. and there are characters above her at full power even outside of Archetype-Earth, like Roa Akiha and Prime Roa potentially. i really don't need to explain why Tsukihime characters aren't multiversal outside of Archetype-Earth, do i?
Correct, because as stated, we just don't use Melty Blood, so the amount of characters that do actually scale is much much smaller
