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while i don't think there should be a tier change of any kind for the MMC Servants, the ratings for their tiers should be due to being in the same general realm as BB and capable of damaging her. they are not stronger than her and certainly not "far above" like it says on Gilgamesh's profile. we have two concrete statements that Gilgamesh even with his new power has an extremely low chance of beating BB.

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it can all be found here https://tsukinoura.wordpress.com/2014/11/14/entry-149-farewells/

i mean this makes sense after all. everyone on this wiki always finds it ironic that BB is always beating people Gilgamesh and the others incon or lose to. it's because she is way more haxed and theoretically even has all of the hax that Gilgamesh and co. do since she is in control of the Moon Cell which has copied all of that stuff and should be at her disposal. you can argue Gilgamesh turning that 0.999% chance of victory into 100% with SNI, but that's about it. they clearly are not equals to BB, let alone above her aside from maybe Gilgamesh with his SNI hard counter. but again that's more of a counter like i just said. their tier 1 justification should come from just standing a chance and being able to damage BB at all. i mean has no one thought it was super weird that Nero Nameless and Tamamo were treated as "stronger than BB" on this wiki despite basically have no hax in comparison to her? it's because they aren't.
 
Pretty sure the only one with "Far Stronger" or "Far Above the likes of" is Gil the rest are just "Stronger" and that makes sense because they beat her don't see why that needs to be changed

Yes she is more haxed out but they were all able to completely nullify that Hax with the Root of the Beginning and overpower her in the end so I think it's a bit iffy to say because she beats people they Incon or lose to on this wiki where they're facing Charchters from different verses she's stronger because in canon she lost to all of them so I don't think that the "stronger" rating is unjustified here its more like BB has more ways to beat people on this wiki because she has more Hax but put her up against Gil or Tamamo and she gets beat cause that's how it happened in canon as well
 
Pretty sure the only one with "Far Stronger" or "Far Above the likes of" is Gil the rest are just "Stronger" and that makes sense because they beat her don't see why that needs to be changed

Yes she is more haxed out but they were all able to completely nullify that Hax with the Root of the Beginning and overpower her in the end so I think it's a bit iffy to say because she beats people they Incon or lose to on this wiki where they're facing Charchters from different verses she's stronger because in canon she lost to all of them so I don't think that the "stronger" rating is unjustified here its more like BB has more ways to beat people on this wiki because she has more Hax but put her up against Gil or Tamamo and she gets beat cause that's how it happened in canon as well
the outcome where they beat her is just an incredibly low chance of happening. and there are even lengthy dead end cutscenes for them losing, further showing it isn't the only outcome.

they are not stronger than her because they got lucky and pulled off a win stated to be less than 1% likely to happen.
 
Yes she is more haxed out but they were all able to completely nullify that Hax with the Root of the Beginning and overpower her in the end so I think it's a bit iffy to say because she beats people they Incon or lose to on this wiki where they're facing Charchters from different verses she's stronger because in canon she lost to all of them
This just means that they were able to defeat her under specific circumstances. If I shot Mike Tayson with a gun I am not stronger than him just because I won
 
I'm pretty sure them being higher comes from them also beating Kiara afterwards, who is stronger than BB since she absorbed her and all, in addition Gil in specific beats Tiamat later

Also their chances to lose being high don't mean she's stronger than them, she's just simply more haxed and controls the entire environment they're in. It's not like she kills them with brute force if they lose, she uses full power CCC, their main issue was just being unable to stand up to her abilities without the MMC
 
I'm pretty sure them being higher comes from them also beating Kiara afterwards, who is stronger than BB since she absorbed her and all
Anderson says BB and the others were nerfing her. and even if she was at full power that just means there chance of winning was even lower. it's clear based off their respective showings, along with two separate statements that they are far below BB.

there is also no feasible reason they would have higher AP than her at all. it would be equal at best. any power-up they got in the Moon Cell would automatically be useable by BB too.
 
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This just means that they were able to defeat her under specific circumstances. If I shot Mike Tayson with a gun I am not stronger than him just because I won
Not really specific circumstances because they were all given the MMC and it's their power so if it were to happen again it isn't like the circumstances will change unless you wanna say we should take away their MMC's or something which would be a whole other discussion

Point is, is that they all beat her and Kiara who I believe absorbed BB which means more or less they can be called "stronger" than her in Canon which means the "Stronger" on their profiles isn't unjust cause to my knowledge it wasn't a battle where she was overpowering them and then some convinient happening changes the battle in their favour allowing that 0.999% chance to materialize they just straight up Powernulled her then beat her and Kiara
 
Not really specific circumstances because they were all given the MMC and it's their power so if it were to happen again it isn't like the circumstances will change unless you wanna say we should take away their MMC's or something which would be a whole other discussion

Point is, is that they all beat her and Kiara who I believe absorbed BB which means more or less they can be called "stronger" than her in Canon which means the "Stronger" on their profiles isn't unjust cause to my knowledge it wasn't a battle where she was overpowering them and then some convinient happening changes the battle in their favour allowing that 0.999% chance to materialize they just straight up Powernulled her then beat her and Kiara
sorry, but you're being illogical. it is directly stated once that their chance is very low and then again that their chance is below 1%. the outcome where they win is extremely small. and there is even outcomes where you lose. there's even a full on detailed Dead End of you die against BB.

Anderson stated Kiara was being nerfed by BB and co. which would make beating her not mean much.

they mutually cancelled out her Ten Crowns, not her entire hax movelist, which would include all of their stuff and power-up since it all is in the Moon Cell. i sent you a direct quote from the game. you are arguing against the canon. you cannot say they just straight up beat her since the entire fight took place in-game. we have the facts. the game says Gilgamesh's chance alone against BB is below 1%. there is an outcome where he dies to her. there is an outcome where he wins against her. Kiara is irrelevant here since Kiara not being nerfed > BB >= Kiara being nerfed by BB and co.

again, the AP reasoning should be that they are in the same realm as BB and maybe even potentially equal in AP. their AP surpassing hers is outright impossible because the power-ups they got were in the Moon Cell, which BB would also have since she has full control over it.
 
sorry, but you're being illogical. it is directly stated once that their chance is very low and then again that their chance is below 1%. the outcome where they win is extremely small. and there is even outcomes where you lose. there's even a full on detailed Dead End of you die against BB.

Anderson stated Kiara was being nerfed by BB and co. which would make beating her not mean much.

they mutually cancelled out her Ten Crowns, not her entire hax movelist, which would include all of their stuff and power-up since it all is in the Moon Cell. i sent you a direct quote from the game. you are arguing against the canon. you cannot say they just straight up beat her since the entire fight took place in-game. we have the facts. the game says Gilgamesh's chance alone against BB is below 1%. there is an outcome where he dies to her. there is an outcome where he wins against her. Kiara is irrelevant here since Kiara not being nerfed > BB >= Kiara being nerfed by BB and co.

again, the AP reasoning should be that they are in the same realm as BB and maybe even potentially equal in AP. their AP surpassing hers is outright impossible because the power-ups they got were in the Moon Cell, which BB would also have since she has full control over it.
Arguing against canon?? I thought Gil and the rest did beat BB if that didn't happen then I apologise

But the point I'm making is that a single statment saying they had a 0.999% chance and another saying their chances are low shouldn't take precedent over actual showings especially when there are certain things that serve to contradict them

(After obtaining the power of the Root of the Beginning, BB, who is able to manipulate space-time, causality, probability, information, gravity, life, death, minds, senses, powers, and souls through her usage of Potnia Theron, was unable to affect Gilgamesh due to being opposed by a power of equal potency)

And this is pretty much the same on the page of all the Playable servants in CCC she was unable to affect them so she did get Powernulled and like you said the whole fight happened in game as well so we don't know whether BB was overpowering them like the scans would suggest what with them having a 0.999% chance and all, we don't know if it was an even fight and we also don't know if they were overpowering her all we do know is the outcome that being that the guys with the MMC's won

It would've been better if we had details of how the fight went down because if she had been overpowering them during fight then coupled together with the statments it wouldn't be that hard to come to a conclusion but the fact that she was unable to be affect them because she was opposed by a power of equal Potency and she was defeated means that them being called "stronger" than her isn't exactly wrong here

Also I'm pretty sure there are people who surpass BB in the Mooncell like Arcuied and Tamamo(Ametarasu) as it was stated that the only person in the world of Fate/Extra capable of bringing Tamamo down to circumstances where she can be defeated is Arcuied so I don't think it's impossible for people to be stronger than BB in the mooncell
 
See the logic of "something is in the mooncell so BB is automatically above it" just doesn't work

BB is as strong as or stronger than the mooncell and what it creates and controls, however there are explicitly things that surpass the mooncell found within it. Sefar is trapped in the Zero Dark but surpasses it, Karna's armor has an authority advantage over it but is contained within, Arcueid who is stronger than Amaterasu (if we take into account the one who was summoned was nerfed by her master extremely hard and still had a chance) can be inside it, etc

The mooncell isn't making and controlling all these things so it's not like it automatically scales above them, and the same case can apply for the MMC buff. That's from outside sources, just because it exists inside the mooncell doesn't mean its automically scaled above by BB.

There's also a statement found here that they matched her in capabilities and rank, so it's impossible for them to be weaker, and as stated it's just purely in hax that she surpassed them. So bare minimum they're equal, based on beating her and Kiara, and Gil later beating Tiamat with that same power level, it's likely they can be scaled above her
 
Arguing against canon?? I thought Gil and the rest did beat BB if that didn't happen then I apologise
pulling off a less than 1% chance of victory doesn't make them superior. i don't know what's going over your head exactly here. and even then there's an outcome where they lose.

it said Amaterasu was the only one Arc could bring down, not Tamamo. we have no idea if Amatearsu is a copy made by the Moon Cell or she can just hop into it.

again, a less than 1% chance of pulling off their win doesn't make them stronger, ignoring the fact you can lose against her. and you cannot give me a single reason for their AP being higher, which has never been stated or implied anywhere.

@Paul_Frank BB is not superior to the Moon Cell in power she's superior since she's a sentient being that can utilize everything in it to its fullest extent. Arcueid is not a good reason since Gatou states the core is apart of Arcueid and she can treat it like a reality marble. she's just BB on steroids.

so we don't know whether BB was overpowering them like the scans would suggest what with them having a 0.999% chance and all
the fight tells us nothing because it all happened in-game, meaning we only have the scans to go by, which shows they are heavily outclassed. i'm not trying to come off as rude, but this is 2+2 logic.

Karna's armor in CCC is not superior to the Moon Cell in terms of power. it's conceptually superior due to the whole sun>moon thing going on.

i already said earlier they can be considered equal to BB in AP, but not stronger, let alone far higher. fighting a nerfed Kiara means nothing. you make no sense since you immediately contradict your own statement you sent of them being equal to her by mentioning them being stronger by fighting a nerfed Kiara later.

i forgot the core issue here though is that you guys mistakenly think Grand Order scales to Extra and ignore the fact BB absorbed Tiamat and many superior Divine Spirits. Extella isn't even the same canon as Extra. the lore of the Moon Cell and the mechanics work differently. even people on this site acknowledge that, but they kinda just gloss over it as inconsistencies for some reason, when it's clear they aren't canon to each other at all. this seems to be something that will be ignored though since this site heavily misunderstands Nasuverse and what scales to what, so I'll leave it be. but realistically, Tiamat isn't multiversal in terms of AP and raw durability at all or is anyone else in Grand Order. but if you're going to use that to justify GIlgamesh being stronger, whatever. kinda forgot you guys did that. that's something that will never be agreed on, so I guess the point of this thread is over.
 
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i forgot the core issue here though is that you guys mistakenly think Grand Order scales to Extra and ignore the fact BB absorbed Tiamat and many superior Divine Spirits. Extella isn't even the same canon as Extra. the lore of the Moon Cell and the mechanics work differently. even people on this site acknowledge that, but they kinda just gloss over it as inconsistencies for some reason, when it's clear they aren't canon to each other at all.
 
The issue of canonity was discussed in a previous thread, and it was accepted as canon because nasuverse cosmology adapts multiverse theory.

Anyway, those who beat BB are scaled above her, using statements that only have a winning chance below 1% doesn't make that person weak, BB has a probability hax that allows her to do things like that, Gil who has attained power equal to authority will definitely resist it, that's why a 1% chance of winning doesn't matter to Gil, and also at the end of the series Gil states that his power is still far from his original form and even so, his power is on par with BB.
 
The issue of canonity was discussed in a previous thread, and it was accepted as canon because nasuverse cosmology adapts multiverse theory.

Anyway, those who beat BB are scaled above her, using statements that only have a winning chance below 1% doesn't make that person weak, BB has a probability hax that allows her to do things like that, Gil who has attained power equal to authority will definitely resist it, that's why a 1% chance of winning doesn't matter to Gil, and also at the end of the series Gil states that his power is still far from his original form and even so, his power is on par with BB.
i said I'd drop this due to this misunderstanding of canonicity on this site.

however the rest of what you said is wrong. the reason a less than 1% chance would arguably not matter to Gil is due to SNI and no other reason. he gets shredded in hax and his power is stated to be the same rank as hers, not higher. and CCC Gilgamesh is far superior to his living self. i do not recall him ever stating that the power was far inferior to what he had in life. could you send that scan? because I'm totally on board with that if that's the case (only for his Fate/Extra living self though), but that sounds extremely incorrect and I don't remember ever seeing that. and I've played through CCC. and if that is the case, that would only apply to his Extra living self and should be a separate key from his MMC. and the other Servants would not scale to his living self in that case.
 
however the rest of what you said is wrong. the reason a less than 1% chance would arguably not matter to Gil is due to SNI and no other reason. he gets shredded in hax and his power is stated to be the same rank as hers, not higher. and CCC Gilgamesh is far superior to his living self. i do not recall him ever stating that the power was far inferior to what he had in life. could you send that scan? because I'm totally on board with that if that's the case (only for his Fate/Extra living self though), but that sounds extremely incorrect and I don't remember ever seeing that. and I've played through CCC. and if that is the case, that would only apply to his Extra living self and should be a separate key from his MMC. and the other Servan
I didn't save the scan, as I recall it happened at the end of the series, during the Gil vs BB fight iirc
 
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i forgot the core issue here though is that you guys mistakenly think Grand Order scales to Extra and ignore the fact BB absorbed Tiamat and many superior Divine Spirits. Extella isn't even the same canon as Extra. the lore of the Moon Cell and the mechanics work differently. even people on this site acknowledge that, but they kinda just gloss over it as inconsistencies for some reason, when it's clear they aren't canon to each other at all. this seems to be something that will be ignored though since this site heavily misunderstands Nasuverse and what scales to what, so I'll leave it be. but realistically, Tiamat isn't multiversal in terms of AP and raw durability at all or is anyone else in Grand Order. but if you're going to use that to justify GIlgamesh being stronger, whatever. kinda forgot you guys did that. that's something that will never be agreed on, so I guess the point of this thread is over.
The grand order scaling to extra is because we have litteraly scalling from it. fgo kiara absorb Extra kiara, we have like litteraly sefar that appear in the two serie etc. People scalling to Amaterasu or Buddha etc

BB never absorbed Tiamat and other divine spirit, she absorbed the informations of their hax/power stocked inside moon cell, 0 reason to believe that because she absorbed her hax she would be stronger than her.

The lore of moon cell and mechanic is not this much different and this is line explained in the game itself why. (Their not from same timeline).

Their are cannon to each other, some text of gilgamesh prove it (he is CCC gilgamesh), and the whole premise of moon cell too, same for nero telling about how their CCC power is not enough for sefar.
and like every fate is canon to each other, where do you get the no cannon to each other?

Tiamat true form in INS is 4D by default you know ?? And in Fate grand order there is people that is in a greater power of Amaterasu the one above moon cell. Or comparable to Buddha who is too above the moon cell or above/comparable to Sefar.

You seem more like one of the BB fanboy that don't accept that your perso is not the strongest huh
 
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Anyways for the thing technicaly yeah she should be stronger the CCC servant when they defeat her. I recall being tell that even the mystic code they still don't have much chance, they just have what it get to counter ten crown and her authority.
 
The grand order scaling to extra is because we have litteraly scalling from it. fgo kiara absorb Extra kiara, we have like litteraly sefar that appear in the two serie etc. People scalling to Amaterasu or Buddha etc
Kiara is not in control of the Moon Cell in GO. and again, there is Extella's rewrite of Extra, which includes CCC and was mentioned differently in Extella, like Hakuno having 4 Servants during the time of CCC. and GO seems to go with Extella's version since it has Sefar. Extra scaling works entirely differently than the rest of the Nasuverse and even it's Extella version. hell, there isn't even any star rank stuff in Extella.

BB never absorbed Tiamat and other divine spirit, she absorbed the informations of their hax/power stocked inside moon cell, 0 reason to believe that because she absorbed her hax she would be stronger than her.

because Tiamat is clearly multiversal.
Hydrogen_Bomb.png

try again.

The lore of moon cell and mechanic is not this much different and this is line explained in the game itself why. (Their not from same timeline).
the Moon Cell in Extra was created to observe the Earth and that's about it. it was going to delete Hakuno even for being irregular data.

the Moon Cell in Extella meanwhile gave Hakuno and co. Regalias to defend against the Umbral Star, which is an incompatible contradiction.

CCC Gilgamesh is unaffected by the Far Side.

Extella Gilgamesh is.

people who supposedly scale to the Moon Cell via Regalias can be beaten by Top Servants and don't even have star rank stats, but normal stats, along with the people who beat them.

Hakuno was implied to of had 4 Servants during the events of Extella's CCC.

Nasu's rewrite of Extra to fit Extella was entirely different from the original.

so no, they do not operate off of the same logic.

Tiamat true form in INS is 4D by default you know ?? And in Fate grand order there is people that is in a greater power of Amaterasu the one above moon cell. Or comparable to Buddha who is too above the moon cell or above/comparable to Sefar.
Tiamat's existence is due to her unique circumstances and it doesn't make her physically scale, as we've clearly seen.

Grand Order scaling to their versions of Amatearsu and co. is not the same as scaling to the Extra versions. You canonically fight Tiamat with Servants in GO. The entire premise of that alone debunks multiversal and immeasurable speed for her. Yes, Tiamat was superior, but if she was as strong as this wiki makes her out to be, there would've been no holding her off or anything.
You seem more like one of the BB fanboy that don't accept that your perso is not the strongest huh
resorting to insults because you're wrong. yeah, that really helps you. i don't even like BB and she definitely isn't the strongest character in the verse. i just actually know something about Nasuverse, unlike you. CCC Gilgamesh is not superior to BB in AP because another version of himself could harm a fodder character (Tiamat).
 
The fight tells us nothing because it all happened in-game, meaning we only have the scans to go by, which shows they are heavily outclassed. i'm not trying to come off as rude, but this is 2+2 logic.
That's exactly what I said it doesn't tell us anything so all we have is that 0.999% statment which in turn is contradicted by the statment that BB was unable to affect them due to facing a power of equal potency and the fact that she was defeated which means saying they are "Stronger" isn't necessarily wrong here
 
That's exactly what I said it doesn't tell us anything so all we have is that 0.999% statment which in turn is contradicted by the statment that BB was unable to affect them due to facing a power of equal potency and the fact that she was defeated which means saying they are "Stronger" isn't necessarily wrong here
you're not making any sense. all the MMC Servants did was mutually negate Ten Crowns with their own. they did not nullify all of BB's other hax.

beating someone less than 1 out of 100 times does not make you stronger than them.

there is also a cutscene of BB killing the MMC Servants and eternally torturing Hakuno afterwards. they are not stronger. they should be stated to be "comparable" in terms of pure stats, not stronger and certainly not far above in Gilgamesh's case when he got the same power-up as the other 3.
 
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Hydrogen_Bomb.png

try again.
I mean if we want to go by that moon cell is only compared to the system solar, sefar and amaterasu who are stronger are only compared to the sun etc. (And even BB she was only compared to a Giants mechanic made of different object in true form)

Anyway this was used when she was in one of her weaken form lol so try to be objectif pls at minimum. Except if you want to downgrade every servant to way lower than hydrogen bomb.
 
I mean if we want to go by that moon cell is only compared to the system solar, sefar and amaterasu who are stronger are only compared to the sun etc. (And even BB she was only compared to a Giants mechanic made of different object in true form)

Anyway this was used when she was in one of her weaken form lol so try to be objectif pls at minimum. Except if you want to downgrade every servant to way lower than hydrogen bomb.
that's a feat for the solar system since celestial bodies can be sentient realities and we have statements that there are high-dimensional life forms on other planets. they clearly cannot be scaled to our real life cosmology. there is a mountain of feats for multiversal Extra. that just makes the solar system scale in their timelines.

I know she was in her weaker form, but she didn't jump from hydrogen bomb level to 1-C, especially since Servants held off stronger forms against her.

I rate Servants way lower than what this website does both in speed and AP because I go by their most consistent showings, but that's not what this topic is about. it's just evidence against Tiamat being multiversal from a combative standpoint, which means CCC Gilgamesh doesn't have higher AP than BB, since fighting Tiamat means nothing and CCC Gil didn't even fight her.
 
Kiara is not in control of the Moon Cell in GO. and again, there is Extella's rewrite of Extra, which includes CCC and was mentioned differently in Extella, like Hakuno having 4 Servants during the time of CCC. and GO seems to go with Extella's version since it has Sefar. Extra scaling works entirely differently than the rest of the Nasuverse and even it's Extella version. hell, there isn't even any star rank stuff in Extella.
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Who tell about her being in control of Moon cell? We talk about fgo kiara absorbing extra kiara.

Extella doesn't rewrite Extra theyr like not even from the same world. It wasn't mentionned différently in raw just the english translation made it different.

Extra scalling doesn't work differently you just want to believe it. And the star rank stuff is a thing that only exist from lb 5.5 and new even arcade so it's not even an argument.

the Moon Cell in Extra was created to observe the Earth and that's about it. it was going to delete Hakuno even for being irregular data.

the Moon Cell in Extella meanwhile gave Hakuno and co. Regalias to defend against the Umbral Star, which is an incompatible contradiction.

CCC Gilgamesh is unaffected by the Far Side.

Extella Gilgamesh is.
Moon cell in extra was never just a thing to observe earth.

Regalia are part of moon cell authority which is a thing that litteraly exist in Extra just in other name.

Extella umbrel star Gilgamesh is not affected by far side show me the scan pls?


And gilgamesh CCc is affected by far side he litteraly got weaker because of this.
 
there is also a cutscene of BB killing the MMC Servants and eternally torturing Hakuno afterwards.
I'm pretty sure you know bad ends don't canonicaly exist so this is a little disingenuous
Defeating someone does not automatically make you stronger than them, there is one such thing known as context
Yes I'm well aware after all I have watched Unlimited Blade Works hehehehehehe point I'm making is that theres a statment saying she couldn't affect them due to them possessing a power of equal potency and the outcome of the fight was that she lost so I don't think it would be incorrect to say that the MMC servants are "Stronger" than her during their fight although It would be okay to say that they are equal as well since it seems you're really pressed about this
 
We talk about fgo kiara absorbing extra kiara.
This is not what happened

At this point of time Kiara was unmistakably a saint, but on January 2017, having escaped successfully from the Temple of Time, the Demon God Pillar Zepar hijacked her body, turning her into a puppet in order to control Seraphix as the pawn of the Demon God.



...at least that's how it was supposed to go, but, at some point, Zepar itself was the who ended being controlled by Kiara, who turned into a majin that could freely manipulate demon pillars and, in the end, she was reborn as a Beast.

Kiara discovered her most excellent self among the multitudes of parallel worlds and fused with her. Bringing over the imaginary number phenomenon of the CCC world to the FGO world, she turned her own body into SE.RA.PH and grew by using Servants as a source of nutrients.

~Character Material V, Character in [FateGO] section

Kiara "fused" with her CCC self by essentially absorbing her personality, she is actually weaker than her


Although the scale of the existence of the Pleasure Deva that was born once on the moon is superior to Beast III, they say that she had no choice but to withdraw when faced with a messiah since she did not possess this skill.

~Character Material V, Nega Saver section
 
that's a feat for the solar system since celestial bodies can be sentient realities and we have statements that there are high-dimensional life forms on other planets. they clearly cannot be scaled to our real life cosmology. there is a mountain of feats for multiversal Extra. that just makes the solar system scale in their timelines.

I know she was in her weaker form, but she didn't jump from hydrogen bomb level to 1-C, especially since Servants held off stronger forms against her.

I rate Servants way lower than what this website does both in speed and AP because I go by their most consistent showings, but that's not what this topic is about. it's just evidence against Tiamat being multiversal from a combative standpoint.
I mean in Babylon she was never in her promordial deity form so why you try argue about this?? The whole premise of the singu is she sealing herself

Their not much multiversal feat in extra (otherwise you will not get some guy trying to debunk it 10k time per month)

We have thing to do these jump. + This atk was a normal atk so still don't understand your whole argument (even more when she tanked NP of quetz in same form).

Servant didn't really held of stronger form against her. As she got weakened by the rule of Hell etc.

Should be hard to rate them lower in speed when got think like santa karna ftl normal punch, people avoid light laser or some people getting light speed reaction.... And what do you mean of most consistent showing when even nasu tell he have do powerscalling from the previous work. So trying to use fate zero/stay night would be wrong.

Except she have description of being it like i tell her true form in INS is a 4D dimmension mud, it's like stated even in her profile
 
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Their not much multiversal feat in extra
The only reason you can argue for multiversal FGO is because of Extra, since we know that the timelines in GO are actually finite
Except she have description of being it like i tell her true form in INS is a 4D dimmension mud, it's like stated even in her profile
Higher dimensionality in the Universe of Observation does not seem to work like it does in the Universe of Reason, since Demon God Pillars are also higher D yet normal Servants can fight them
 
Who tell about her being in control of Moon cell? We talk about fgo kiara absorbing extra kiara.
if I remember correctly, she simply linked and synchronized the personality of her CCC self, which should be from Extella's CCC mind you, since GO seems to adopt Extella's lore of Extra with Sefar and whatnot.

Extella doesn't rewrite Extra theyr like not even from the same world. It wasn't mentionned différently in raw just the english translation made it different.
it is a separate world from Extra, but it is a rewritten version that works completely differently, which is the one GO seems to use. and the translations being the problem for inconsistencies is baseless and no evidence has been provided for such.

Extra scalling doesn't work differently you just want to believe it. And the star rank stuff is a thing that only exist from lb 5.5 and new even arcade so it's not even an argument.

bruh

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BB_STAR_Rank.png

star rank started with CCC and has the most explanation. i would know since I've actually played the series many years ago.

Moon cell in extra was never just a thing to observe earth.

Regalia are part of moon cell authority which is a thing that litteraly exist in Extra just in other name.
the Regalia and it's purpose doesn't exist in Extra at all. the Moon Cell tries to delete Hakuno after she makes her wish.
Extella umbrel star Gilgamesh is not affected by far side show me the scan pls?

gladly

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And gilgamesh CCc is affected by far side he litteraly got weaker because of this.
he said he got weaker because he did absolutely nothing and just slept for a long time, along with having Hakuno as a master.
 
The only reason you can argue for multiversal FGO is because of Extra, since we know that the timelines in GO are actually finite
Wasn't there like literally a statment from GO saying Goetia would incinerate the Infinite number of possibilities of human history with Ars Nova/Almadel salomonis (I forgot which one)???

Plus theres things like Kojiros Tsubame Gaeshi that attacks with Infinite answers and when clashing Musashis blade Infinite Possibilities would play out ??
 
people who supposedly scale to the Moon Cell via Regalias can be beaten by Top Servants and don't even have star rank stats, but normal stats, along with the people who beat them.

Hakuno was implied to of had 4 Servants during the events of Extella's CCC.

Nasu's rewrite of Extra to fit Extella was entirely different from the original.

so no, they do not operate off of the same logic.


Tiamat's existence is due to her unique circumstances and it doesn't make her physically scale, as we've clearly seen.

Grand Order scaling to their versions of Amatearsu and co. is not the same as scaling to the Extra versions. You canonically fight Tiamat with Servants in GO. The entire premise of that alone debunks multiversal and immeasurable speed for her. Yes, Tiamat was superior, but if she was as strong as this wiki makes her out to be, there would've been no holding her off or anything.

resorting to insults because you're wrong. yeah, that really helps you. i don't even like BB and she definitely isn't the strongest character in the verse. i just actually know something about Nasuverse, unlike you. CCC Gilgamesh is not superior to BB in AP because another version of himself could harm a fodder character (Tiamat).
For this Top Servant are summoned by moon cell itself they could be boosted by him we don't know.
Arturia by herself already show she not in the same categorie of other one ( she killed sefar in nameless timeline).

Already tell you Extella and Extra are not the same timeline. Same by extra and extra CCC are not same timeline.

It was not much different but some premise where changed, and he already tell that their not same time line. It's line you try to argue that some feat doens't exist or are not cannon in stay night because it doesn't show up in heaven feal...

They operate from the same logic, you just don't understand the word not same timeline apparently.


Tiamat's existence is due to her unique circumstances and it doesn't make her physically scale, as we've clearly seen.

Grand Order scaling to their versions of Amatearsu and co. is not the same as scaling to the Extra versions. You canonically fight Tiamat with Servants in GO. The entire premise of that alone debunks multiversal and immeasurable speed for her. Yes, Tiamat was superior, but if she was as strong as this wiki makes her out to be, there would've been no holding her off or anything.

resorting to insults because you're wrong. yeah, that really helps you. i don't even like BB and she definitely isn't the strongest character in the verse. i just actually know something about Nasuverse, unlike you. CCC Gilgamesh is not superior to BB in AP because another version of himself could harm a fodder character (Tiamat).
Which unique circumstance?

You will need to prove why, as the lore of amaterasu litteraly tell you are false she exist above the time axis and so is not affected by the timeline. It doesn't exist multiple amaterasu.

You cannonicaly fight a weaker and sealed Tiamat* it's the whole point of the story one more time.

I litteraly tell that CCC gilgamesh is not stronger than her so bruh.

If tiamat was a fodder character her power would never had make the whole problem for CCC servant you know?
 
The only reason you can argue for multiversal FGO is because of Extra, since we know that the timelines in GO are actually finite

Higher dimensionality in the Universe of Observation does not seem to work like it does in the Universe of Reason, since Demon God Pillars are also higher D yet normal Servants can fight them
Actualy the fgo timeline have the same problem of extra having the infinity and finite statement you know? Extra and extella have it too.
Demon god pillar are not high D the only one that has this description was real body Goetia
 
you're not making any sense. all the MMC Servants did was mutually negate Ten Crowns with their own. they did not nullify all of BB's other hax.

beating someone less than 1 out of 100 times does not make you stronger than them.

there is also a cutscene of BB killing the MMC Servants and eternally torturing Hakuno afterwards. they are not stronger. they should be stated to be "comparable" in terms of pure stats, not stronger and certainly not far above in Gilgamesh's case when he got the same power-up as the other 3.
He have reason her MMC was to counter her authority and ten crown not other hax.

Anyways it's was tell that they still not much chance to beat her even with that
 
I actually kinda agree with most of what RandomGuy said (besides the things related to FGO and canonicity).

Also, regarding "BB couldn't affect x because of having equal power". Why is it a Resistance feat for the others and not a weakness of her abilities?
 
I actually kinda agree with most of what RandomGuy said (besides the things related to FGO and canonicity).

Also, regarding "BB couldn't affect x because of having equal power". Why is it a Resistance feat for the others and not a weakness of her abilities?
Because it's not a weakness of her ability, they make themself having the same level if authority than her by analyzing her ten crown so they could counter each other because the whole authority thing
 
And gilgamesh CCc is affected by far side he litteraly got weaker because of this.
Extella Gil and CCC Gil are not the same, Extella Gil as aware of the events of CCC but he is evidently different considering that he is in an Archer container

Wasn't there like literally a statment from GO saying Goetia would incinerate an Infinite number of Timelines with Ars Nova/Almadel salomonis (I forgot which one)???
Yes, however from what I have been told it seems like the original word used meant countless as opposed to infinite (which is supposedly important in Japanese). Even discarding that, this is not how the timelines operate. Hell, Goetia himself states the the energy in it is finite in London by comparing it to a billion Excaliburs

Unfortunately, this isn't the case. The energy to account for the proliferation of unnecessary worlds, exists nowhere within this Dimension (次元, Jigen?).

That is to say, the ceaseless proliferation of Parallel Worlds may eventually exceed the capacity of the Dimension as a whole.

Parallel Worlds are a necessary existence, but they cannot be let to freely multiply.

It's a very rough estimation, but should the Earth persist at its present level of civilization for another century, it's likely that the Solar System will collapse.

However, the reality is that we live and multiply. The Solar System hasn't yet dissolved (緩和, kanwa?, lit. "loosen / relax / alleviate") before the sheer volume of data that we produce, and it's likely that the status quo (今の方式, ima no houshiki, lit. "the present formulation / system"?) can be sustained for another hundred million years.

And the principle behind it is simple. To a certain extent, the existence known as the World (世界という者, Sekai to Iu Mono?, lit. "the thing called the World") conducts a hueristic analysis (統計, toukei?) of timeline survivability (進むと可能性, susumu to kanousei?, lit. "prospects and potential"), preserving only those Outcomes wherein "the operation of the subsequent era" (次の時代の運営, Tsugi no Jidai no Unei?) isn't impossible.
However, as the unrestricted propagation of this process would exhaust the lifespan of the universe, at set intervals, those extraneous worldsroutes (世界ルート, sekairu-to?) removed of the category of "routes characterized by survivability and stability" are culled (伐採, basai, lit. "cull" / "prune"), so as to prevent the needless expenditure of energy.

If there was an infinite amount of timelines then there would be no reason for pruning, since that is done in order to preserve energy and the structure of the solar system. It is quite literally impossible to have infinite timelines due to pruning

Post in thread 'Nasuverse’s Continuity'
Most of these are statements from characters which very easily be dismissed as hyperbole since we have an actual explanation of how timelines work. Also, using Prillya statements is pointless due to this

PrismaAuthorStatement.png
 
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