Fairy Tail Revisions, Upgrades and Other things

[Schnee_One]

@Gargoyle

Natsu vs Asta

Natsu vs Iron Man

Natsu vs Saber of Red

Natsu vs Garou

Gray vs Sasuke

I'll have to look through more

That was their low 7C versions

That was their High 6C versions

He still has a 7A key

Fair enough on Gray

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

Honestly don't agree with Asta and Mordred being added seeing as they naturally weaken all of his attacks as they are magic, giving Natsu the natural permanent disadvantage. Not to mention Mordred had Precog.

Garou should be removed as Post Second TS is no longer 7-A.

I'll look through the other threads to see.

 

[DemonGodMitchAubin]

1. Natsu no longer has a Low 7-C key

2. you're right, it didn't say with Igneel Powers so I got confused

3. His 7-A key is much higher now, so it really shouldn't count

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

Not agreeing too much with Natsu vs Ichigo being added either.

Regardless, Iron Man, Mel, Fortune and Link I believe are perfectly fine. This likely should be brought up on the Versus Thread Removal Thread.

 

[DemonGodMitchAubin]

@DragonMaster

In Chapter 438, Base Natsu, Base Gray, and Base Efman go head to head, and punch each other around showing that they are comparable, even then Lucy damaged two spriggans, and they should scale to her, plus there is no denying the fact that Elfman and Lissanna together defeated Ajeel, since it might seem like PIS, I can see where you're coming from, but there's no denying the facts, also that would not be enough to randomly drop them to 7-A for no reason

 

[BlackeJan]

@DragonMaster
In Chapter 438, Base Natsu, Base Gray, and Base Efman go head to head, and punch each other around showing that they are comparable, even then Lucy damaged two spriggans, and they should scale to her, plus there is no denying the fact that Elfman and Lissanna together defeated Ajeel, since it might seem like PIS, I can see where you're coming from, but there's no denying the facts, also that would not be enough to randomly drop them to 7-A for no reason

They were playing around though....do we even know they were going all out? also Lucy had help w/ Natsu vs Jacob and he seemed more pissed then hurt and she went against some that could had one shotted her if she felt like it (was holding back)


TBH....FT scaling is VERY wonky

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

It's really not that wonky, it's pretty simple honestly. People just make it difficult overall due to biases for and against it. This has been going on for the past year or so. I was hoping Fairy Tail threads could finally stop being so controversial and problematic.

 

[BlackeJan]

It's really not that wonky, it's pretty simple honestly. People just make it difficult overall due to biases for and against it. This has been going on for the past year or so.

Well then let me tell u this....when Natsu and gang 1st met Brandish, Natsu was so scared of her power that he was about to use Igneels remains but then when Amped Neihart (stronger then Brandish) Base Natsu one shots him.....and going back to what @Demon said about Base Natsu and Elfman being comparable well him and Lisanna had a VERY hard time beating Ajeel that it had to become PIS just so they could "win" the battle but Base Natsu one shotted Amped Neihart....u have to admit that makes no sense

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

That's simply a fault in writing. It doesn't change the feat overall. Unless you want to mark this entire arc as PIS. Something in which is not going to happen.

 

[BlackeJan]

If ya think about it....it does kinda null of Elfman and Natsu being comparable since if they playing around w/ each other but Natsu can one shot someone stronger then Brandish but Elfman needs help and was on the losing end then yeah its either PIS or Elfman isnt comparable

EDIT: when Elfman punched Natsu he didnt have a scratch on him and got up smiling but when Elfman got punched then there was damage but after that then it just became a comedy scene by having their "guild brawl" so that right there shouldnt count since again its a comedy scene

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

I'm not supporting Elfman and Lisanna scaling y'know. I still disagree with them doing so.

 

[HST_Master]

While I agree on the changes to scaling, I also agree with Dragon on scaling Elfman and Lisanna to base Natsu, more so Lisanna

 

[Homu_Sweet_Homu]

I'm overall neutral with this.

 

[BlackeJan]

@Dragon disagreed on them scaling....

EDIT: wait i see what u meant

 

[DemonGodMitchAubin]

I'm not saying that Elfman and Lisanna on their own are equal to base Natsu, and I agree they are weaker, but they defeated a spriggan together, they are an unquantifiable amount below 27.4 Gigatons, probably close to Baseline 6-C, however even if they were only 1/4 of Ajeel's power, they're still 6-C, the point is, it makes no sense for them to be 7-A, that's a huge jump back for characters who defeated a Spriggan, and yes while it's bad writing, but we can't discredit it, It's this same kind of scaling that moves alot the seven deadly sins characters to High 6-B and above, as well as the One Piece characters

 

[BlackeJan]

Its still should be considered PIS since b4 Ajeel wasnt even trying and he was beating them both of them down like it was nothing then next thing u know both of them beat him. Im sure that Hiro didnt know what to do and just "gave them the "victory" to move the story along

 

[DemonGodMitchAubin]

Regardless they are comparable to Lucy who Damaged a Spriggan, and yes yes Brandish, and Jacob were holding back, however that doesn't make there Defenses any weaker, and even if they are slightly weaker, they are still 6-C, once agin you can't just backscale to a random tier, that's not how it works, I have changed Elfman and Lisanna to likely 6-C, because they worked together to beat a spriggan, and they should be around Lucy, however you need to realize that while it may seem silly, all these characters damaged people who were way above them, if we count this as PIS, then we have to count a lot of things in Fairy Tail as PIS, which is just ridiculous, and just messes with scaling, now please, drop the matter, so that Fairy Tail Scaling can be done with, until 100 year quest feats

 

[DragonEmperor23]

6-A Natsu when ovo

 

[DemonGodMitchAubin]

Whenever a Dragon threatens to destroy all of Giltena, wait that would be High 6-A, hopefully that does happen

 

[BlackeJan]

@Demon

Not EVERYTHING is regarded as PIS just those two though so i dont know why u even said that we would have to do the same for everyone but most people here still disagree about the Elfman/Lisanna however i do thank u for putting in the rating they had cause they honestly need it. Lucy again could had been one shotted by Brandish if she wanted to so that already tells u that she aint 6-C nor a "Likely" and she got a lucky hit w/ Natsu but all it did was anger him

https://www.*************/manga/fairy_tail/v38/c477/19.html (By herself she kicks him from behind)

https://www.*************/manga/fairy_tail/v38/c477/20.html (He gets up w/ no damage on him)

https://www.*************/manga/fairy_tail/v38/c478/22.html (Natsu and Lucy kicked him and not only is he angry but there is just a tiny amount of blood)

This literally shows that Lucy cant hold a battle on her own and need help

EDIT: in ch. 478....they couldnt hold a candle to Jacob! and they were able to get a lucky shot in b/c of a distraction (Jacob didnt wanna look at Lucy cause of fanservice and Natsu beat him b/c of FDKM) which shows more proof that most of the character in base isnt 6-C but like At least 7-A or High 7-A

 

[Captain_Torch]

It was implied that Elfman won with the thx of his "Sand Beast" form which directly countered Ajeel's magic

 

[BlackeJan]

Source? i went back and when Elfman 1st used it, Ajeel sunked him within seconds

 

[DemonGodMitchAubin]

Elfman and Lisanna, lucy, and everyone who scales to them is unquantifiablly weaker than the spriggans, listen...

Dragon Acnologia ROT>>Seven Flames Natsu>>Human Acnologia ROT>>Savage Dragon Fire Natsu>>Fairy Heart Zeref>=Etherion

Even though this is a long chain of scaling, we can't move Dragon Acnologia ROT to the next Tier, same should apply backwards with Lucy, Lisanna, Elfman and others

 

[BlackeJan]

Um Acnologia has his current tier b/c of statement of Etherion anc calc of map....u can deny the evidence i sent u knowing that Lucy doesnt get 6-C or even a "Likely". I even provided evidnce how she couldnt do damage to someone w/ surpise attack and and w/ help from someone stronger then her, they were both getting DESTROYED and was only able to get a licky hit was b/c of Jacob's own weakness and not only that but was able to deal TINY damage to him even w/ Natsu and had to be defeated by FDKM.

U r right about being unquantifiably weaker....when they have help that is but by themselves they either need to exploit a weakness or they had help. Only spriggan that got one shotted was Neihnart by Natsu but he couldnt do that to Jacob and again need help (iirc it was stated that Neihart was the weakest). If honestly believe otherwise w/ the evidence i gave u them im sorry to say but its surely wrong. U can tell the difference of power between Spriggans and FT individually cause it was show cased that they need help

 

[DemonGodMitchAubin]

I'm done trying to convince you, you're just not going to change your mind, whether you like it or not, Lucy did fairly well against a Brandish who was holding back from Insta killing with hax, which means she's below 6-C by an unknown amount, so she is only likely 6-C, Lisanna and Elfman when working together beat a Spriggan, however they worked together to do it fair enough, they're likely 6-C base Wendy and Sherria survived attacks from Dimaria and managed to damage her somewhat, likely 6-C, everyone who fought Historias which are on the same level as neinheart are likely 6-C, you can't drop them to 7-A, because you feel like they're massively weaker, that's not how scaling works, most of them, are likely baseline 6-C, however the fact that they damaged Spriggans at all is proof enough, now we're not changing them to a random lower tier because you believe they're weaker, now please, let it go

 

[BlackeJan]

What r u talking about? did my evidence not tell u anything? i get the feeling that u know its true but u dont want to accept it. Brandish could had one shotted Lucy meaning Lucy wouldnt be able to touch Brandish if Brandish got serious. What i dont understand....is that fact u ignored my evidence when it came to Jacob, i even showed truthful evidence how Lucy got the drop on Jacob and it still didnt do anything much less showed he took damage! im sorry again i love u man but you are trying to ignore the truthful evidence that is presented. 1st off DF Wendu should be Likely 6-C cause she NEVER damaged Transformed Dimaria, thats headcannon if u think that she did and only Sherria w/ 3rd origin did also Base Wendy still needed help and got a kick in which STILL didnt mean anything. Also i want evidence of how Historia opponents are "Likely 6-C" or Wahl's fake robots are 6-C.

My main focus is why did u deliberately ignore Jacob vs Lucy and Natsu went i showed the evidence thats CLEARLY the truth? again i love ya but this is just being indenial.

EDIT: i want people to give their honest opinion in this. Im not the only one who disagrees w/ Elfman/Lisanna scaling though in all honesty they need to be Possibly also Like Lucy and Base Wendy

 

[DemonGodMitchAubin]

I'm not disagreeing with you when you say that they are weaker, cause they are by a pretty big margin, however we don't know how much weaker they are, yes Brandish can one shot lucy, well many people consider being 5x stronger is a one-shot, well take the feat of wall which is 27.4 Gigatons divide it by 5 and you have 5.48 Gigatons, STILL 6-C, you can be in the same tier and have a huge gap between each other, and 5x difference is a stomp, so claiming that the spriggans can easily beat these characters is not enough of a jump down, I tried to do the same, that if a character is vastly superior compared to someone who is High 7-A, with a 3x gap, then shouldn't they be 6-C, but no, I was told that's not how it works, just because they are likely 6-C, does not mean they are as strong as spriggans, however Lucy, while no, she did not damage Jacob that much, if at all (also she didn't use any of her strongest spells like Urano Metria, or Aqua Metria, all she did was physical attacks boosted by regulus power, which with Natsu damaged jacob) she did damage Brandish, and yes yes she was holding back, however she did damage someone who is 6-C, even if Brandish wasn't going for the kill, she was trying to fight, without hax, which for her is still 6-C, as well Dragon Force Wendy did damage Irene, as well when Irene was in Wendy's body, she noted that she had a lot more magic then she thought she did, and did damage to Erza, who is 6-C, the point is these caharacters are still quite a bit weaker then spriggans, however characters like Lucy, Wendy, Elfman, and Lisanna, whoo have always been comparable in strength, all have shown the power, to at some point defeat a spriggan, claiming that the Spriggans are way stronger, is not enough of an incentive to drop these, characters down another Tier


Wow that's a Mountain of Text

 

[BlackeJan]

Indeed thats alot lol. Hmmm....what im trying to see though is this is though....Assualt Wahl is 27.6 GT true but its his FORM thats 6-C....how do we know that Spriggans r comparable to Assault Wahl? Neihart was said to be the weakest memmber but got one shotted yet Jacob took on 2 people (wasnt even trying) then got one shotted by Natsu who had to use a power up but not only that but Weak Laxus > Elfman/Lisanna (said this cause of his fight vs Natsu/Gajeel and he was injured/tired) yet Laxus had to beat him using Red Lighting (particles disappeared from barrier then he used Red Lighting which is a more powerful ver. of his regular lightning) so it basically goes like this....

100% Healthy Laxus (Red Lighning) > Assault Wahl > 100% Healthy Laxus (Regular Lightning) > Wahl > Unhealthy Laxus > Elfman/Lisanna

And its been known that Laxus > Erza = Mira so that means that Assult Wahl > Erza/Mira....I cant believe i didnt see this but its true that Brandish did say that "they are this powerful" but that doesnt mean they are comparable in whatever form they are cause that would be like saying that Irene/August are comparable when really they are in a leauge of their own

Ex: Lucy = 5 Brandish = 10 but Assault Wahl = 15 yes they are powerful they are by no means comparable w/ each other (well that is said to they're base they are comparable but not to the others can transform)


So basically to sum this up....we made an assuption that they r comparable to Assault Wahl 27.6 GT feat but not his base (Spriggans base could honestly be close to 6-C baseline or a little higher) so we need to calc a member of Spprigans base form


EDIT: Lucy, Elfman, Lisanna, Base Wendy need to have a Possibly to their 6-C since we both agree that the Spriggans were holding back or they had help

 

[fandom_9TailAcno]

pls also remember that jellal was holding back, because he dont want to kill oracian seis members. both august and irene should be atleast low 6-B, because august is also stated to be above all spriggens, casually block laxus attack which is strong enough to kill ajeel, defeat whole jellal ime without exhausting himself. survive both gildarts and cana strongest attack. for irene:she wrap whole country, enhace neinhart magic power so neinhart>brandish, (and brandish is 6-c) enhace nearly (lowball)500k-600k(highball)700k-800k solder power so much that a single kick can send erza flying, and later summon a meteor at rel speed.(note that she did all this without any problem and she was at her full strength) and she kee[ active those spell until she died. if anyone think i am using head canon pls mention i am ready to provide scans.


@goddemon its not going to be your last ft upgrade post