Fairy Tail Hundred Year Quest Discussion Thread 16 (Another one that will disappear into the void)

[Nerd1435]

I agree tbh. There's more than enough evidence for that. But someone should collect it, form arguments and make a blog just like Mitch did for Etherion and Dragon Cry scaling.

I feel Aldoron and their travel time to travel to alakstasia via sea with no breaks could be used as a support evidence.

 

[Nerd1435]

By the way weren't all the spirits together with a combined unison attack not even able to scratch the eclipse Gate?

We can scale Atlas flames Natsu above the addition of their AP since he literally broke through the Gate.

 

[BlackeJan]

Just saying but we dont scale suicide attacks. Also i August suicide attack to me is now an outlier if its on the lvl of Etherion blast

 

[CloverDragon03]

Just saying but we dont scale suicide attacks. Also i August suicide attack to me is now an outlier if its on the lvl of Etherion blast

There's no reason for it to be an outlier. Despite August's overwhelming power with Ars-Magia, he still considered himself to be no match for the likes of Acnologia, still saying that only with Fairy Heart would Zeref have a chance.

 

[Damage3245]

@DragonGamerZ913; doesn't Ars Magia require a bit of time in order to fully execute? Presumably Acnologia could just blitz him before he could finish it, no?

 

[BlackeJan]

There's no reason for it to be an outlier. Despite August's overwhelming power with Ars-Magia, he still considered himself to be no match for the likes of Acnologia, still saying that only with Fairy Heart would Zeref have a chance.

It is an outlier. If Etherion is stated not enough to take on Acnologia yet August suicide attack calc has the same tier as Etherion then yes it shouldnt be used

Etherion = 6A

August Suicide Attack = 6A

Yet August knows he doesnt stand a chance vs Human Acnologia and we don know if he can take a etherion blast himself

 

[CNBA3]

August spell does not really require prep time, Well August would still scale to Irene who condensed Fiore

 

[DragonEmperor23]

we're already at 400 replies it hasn't even been a week kek

 

[LordGinSama]

Pretty sure we don't scale suicide attacks unless a character is directly showing tanking said attack.

 

[LordGinSama]

Also back in my day we didn't take statements as seriously, without the Etherion statement then they'd only be 6-B and no more. Rules were much more strict back then like FTL Naruto.

 

[CNBA3]

Well when we take the crater it formed it would be higher

 

[DemonGodMitchAubin]

@BlackeJan

August literally says he can destroy the entire country with Ars-Magia, that isn't an outlier

There's nothing that says August wouldn't be able to produce magic power superior to Etherion with Ars-Magia, also I don't get the stigma against Suicide Attacks, like they don't scale to the persona's normal AP, but they can easily scale to another persons AP

 

[Nerd1435]

August resodrts to a suicide attack so that he could help Zeref even a bit. He'd have done it way before if that were to kill Acnologia since Acnologia is Alvarez's and Zeref's biggest threat.

 

[CNBA3]

I would not say that any of Alvarez members scale to Etherion

 

[AnonymousBlank]

@Blacke

I am lost on something. Why does August thinking he isnt strong enough to harm Acno and Etherion not being enough to fight Acno make the former an outlier? If both are the same tier and neither work on Acno then Acno is consistently above that level of attacks. Those two support each other, not contradict.

 

[Nerd1435]

They'd be High 6-B+ even with just visual feats btw. Although Tiering a character solely based on feats and discarding statements despite their comprehensiveness is a hilarious thing to do.

If it is an Outlier, statement or feat doesn't matter. An outlier is an outlier. Sorry if that came off rude and I wasn't referring to anyone.

 

[Ah_Gou]

Acnologia would have eaten the magic of the suicide attack and Zeref wouldn't have died due to his immortality. Being above a certain character can be for other reasons than just stats. I don't see how you guys are trying to scale the suicide attack to Zeref and Acnologia.

 

[Nerd1435]

I would not say that any of Alvarez members scale to Etherion

No one is saying any of the Alvarez members scale to Etherion though. August, the strongest Spriggan can destroy Fiore by releasing all his Magic power and resorting to Suicide.

Moreover destroying Fiore isn't the limit of Etherion's output. It could be far stronger than that considering that Fiore is one of the smallest Countries. We just go with the low-end that's all.

 

[Nerd1435]

Acnologia would have eaten the magic of the suicide attack and Zeref wouldn't have died due to his immortality. Being above a certain character can be for other reasons than just stats. I don't see how you guys are trying to scale the suicide attack to Zeref and Acnologia.

Except Ars Magia is not an attack he could eat. And the scaling is based off Fairy Heart Zeref having the possibility of surpassing Acnologia in terms of strength.

August would have suicided if he believed Ars Magia has the sloghtest chance of taking down Acnologia considering his love for Zeref and his suicidal Nature.

 

[DemonGodMitchAubin]

@Ah Gou

When August says he's going to destroy the country, he says he has "Enough Magic Power" to perform said feat, quantity of magic power directly equates to strength and AP in the Fairy Tail verse, Fairy Heart and Acnologia should absolutely via many statements have more magic power than August, meaning they can output more energy than his country destroying attack

It's all based on the energy system, plus their the God Tiers, so it's not absurd that they scale higher than that

 

[BlackeJan]

@BlackeJan
August literally says he can destroy the entire country with Ars-Magia, that isn't an outlier

There's nothing that says August wouldn't be able to produce magic power superior to Etherion with Ars-Magia, also I don't get the stigma against Suicide Attacks, like they don't scale to the persona's normal AP, but they can easily scale to another persons AP

Last thing i saw was that his suicide attack didnt do any damage, all it was doing was pretty much erasing people and thats it. Its been on this site for a while that we dont scale people to suicide attacks. Just cause we have a calc for that doesnt mean that we even know for sure if August himself could even take on a Etherion blast

@Anonymous

Well not only did he admit he wouldnt be able to do anything to him, he was also shit scared when Human Acno killed God Serena and that man was sweating bullets. Lets also not forget the fact that this is August who knows his limits is is very smart, if August knew he could take on Acno then he would had done so

 

[DemonGodMitchAubin]

@BlackeJan

You're right, August wouldn't be able to tank an Etherion Blast, I'm not suggesting that at all, the 6-A only scales to Ars-Magia, not his durability, however Fairy Heart has more magic power than August, so it's output of energy would be superior to August's Ars-Magia, so Fairy Heart would scale to August's Attack, which was melting the very country itself

As for the second part of your argument, it's entirely reliant on the idea Human Acnologia must be High 6-C, however he's only that rating because it's a lowballed amount of how strong he would be, we don't have the full capabilities of Pre-SBT Human Acnologia, he could also be 6-A for all we know

But the who point is Fairy Heart has more magic power than August's Suicide Attack, so it should scale

 

[BlackeJan]

@Demon

Either way, we dont scale characters to suicides attack that was what i was getting at. I can name a bunch of characters from different verses tha are stronger then a character who pulled a seppuku and yet they still dont scale. U know what....it clicked to me but Base Zeref is weaker then a Etherion blast


EDIT: is All of August attacks uses Ars-Magic?

 

[Nerd1435]

@BlackeJan

Um I don't understand what you are addressing/countering here.

Are you perhaps doubting the legitimacy of his claim? He is a knowledgeable spriggan and he also isn't the type to hype himself up and lie.

Or are you saying Ars Magia can't have the calculated output because 'August' can't tank Etherion? Why does it even matter though? Ars Magia destroys his body and turns it into Ash. That doesn't scale to his normal AP or Durability.

Yes he didn't because he believed Acnologia can tank it. It is Mavis/Makarov who believed Etherion might match Acnologia who only expereinced Acno's power on the Tenrou before that instance. While August experienced Acnologia's magic power directly and he has a more accurate estimate on his strength. There's no reason why Ars Maagia shouldn't be stronger than Etherion.

Moreover Ars Magia isn't necessarily stronger than Etherion considering the value we use for Etherion is with Fiore as a basis which is one of the smallest countries. With an average sized country, it would reach Several Peta-Tons.

 

[DemonGodMitchAubin]

@BlackeJan Yeah, characters don't always scale to a Suicide Attack and I understand the logic behind most of that, it's never certain, however in the Fairy Tail World, there is a universal energy system in place, If Object A has more magic power than Object B, then Object A can output more energy, Fairy Heart has more magic power than August, that means Fairy Heart itself can output more energy than August's 6-A+ feat

And I'm not saying many people scales, Base Zeref does not scale, August and all of the Spriggans don't scale, it's just Fairy Heart and above

 

[BlackeJan]

No. Its just that simple we DONT scale characters to suicide attack period. If u want to change that then u need to make a CRT after the forum move. Just cause its Fairy Tail world doesnt mean if get the special treatment.

I'm not mad and i hope im not sounding rude

 

[DemonGodMitchAubin]

That's not an argument though... you're saying we don't scale to Suicide Attacks, but you're not giving a reasoning for why that is, maybe the reason why that is doesn't apply to this scenario, the rules on this site are not absolute and everything should be handled with a case by case

Why can't we scale August's Suicide Attack, I need more of an answer than "You just can't"

 

[Damage3245]

> If Object A has more magic power than Object B, then Object A can output more energy, Fairy Heart has more magic power than August, that means Fairy Heart itself can output more energy than August's 6-A+ feat

Is it possible that this is more of an Edo Tensei situation? The Edo Tensei in Naruto have "limitless chakra" in theory but they're restricted by the output that they themselves have.

Fairy Heart might have infinite reserves of magic power compared to something like Dragon Cry, but does that necessarily mean that the output of Fairy Heart has to be greater than it?

If we took that logic and the statements of it having no limit to its power, then you'd end up with something along the lines of infinite AP which is ridiculous.

 

[CloverDragon03]

The reason August can use Ars-Magia in the first place is because he was born with a tremendous amount of magic power. He states that he was born with so much power right before casting Ars-Magia.

 

[DemonGodMitchAubin]

@Damage

No, magic power doesn't work that way, It's not like Chakra were the amount someone has doesn't relate to how strong they are, In Fairy Tail, the amount of magic power you have directly equates to how strong a character is, that's a fundamental law of the verse

Having more magic power than something else makes it stronger, it's stated several times that quantity is directly related to the strength of a character

I literally addressed all this in my explanation blog about how Fairy Heart doesn't have infinite AP

 

[BlackeJan]

That's not an argument though... you're saying we don't scale to Suicide Attacks, but you're not giving a reasoning for why that is, maybe the reason why that is doesn't apply to this scenario, the rules on this site are not absolute and everything should be handled with a case by case
Why can't we scale August's Suicide Attack, I need more of an answer than "You just can't"

The name is legit in itself, a "suicide"

This is also because of how suicides are given the fact that durability plays a part in this. I actually dont know why we cant but its a reason why no characters in VSB scales have stronger people scale suicide attacks

 

[CNBA3]

Suicides are so rare in FT, it holds any real meaning when it counts

 

[CloverDragon03]

The name is legit in itself, a "suicide"

This is also because of how suicides are given the fact that durability plays a part in this. I actually dont know why we cant but its a reason why no characters in VSB scales have stronger people scale suicide attacks

Your argument is based on the idea of "it's a suicide, so it doesn't count." Obviously August won't scale, but the fact that even with Ars-Magia, August still firmly believed only Zeref with Fairy Heart could stand a chance against Acnologia means that the god tiers would scale above him.

 

[DemonGodMitchAubin]

@BlackeJan

You're still not giving a legit reason or argument...

Listen, I keep giving you direct reasoning as to why these things scale, but you haven't actually addressed my argument, you just look at the word suicide attack and throw everything away...

 

[BlackeJan]

@Demon/Dragon

BECAUSE WE DONT SCALE SUICIDES IN GENERAL. This is not rocket science and Fairy Tail doesnt get the special treatment just cause it happens in their world. Its not even "well tell me why" because i have been the entire time, we dont do this in general for no verse

@Dragon

U make it seem that Ars-magic in general is as strong as his suicide attack or that Ars-magic in general is on that lvl which isnt true. It doesnt matter who has what magic, it depends on the person or how they train it. If that was the case then again August would had tried to take on Acno himself

 

[DemonGodMitchAubin]

We're filling up the discussion thread, so I'm just quickly moving the discussion to this CRT, it should be straightforward and simple, we're just tieing up all lose ends so that this can be put to bed

CRT

 

[PowerToScale]

If Fairy Heart is state/shown to be greater than anything that August can do, then it would scale above his suicide attack. And if said attack is calced 6-A+ then Fairy Heart would be at least 6-A+ itself.

 

[CNBA3]

Well it is not like his Suicide is any different than the stats of like Irene at all

 

[Nerd1435]

Pheonix's explosion is suicidal, we scale it seperately. It isn't that we can't scale suicidal attacks at all. We shouldn't scale them to one's own normal AP (for example, August's normal AP here).

We can perfectly scale others from the said attack if they were to Outscale the attack. I don't see a reason why we shouldn't.

Even IF we do have a general rule like that (which I don't think we do), I really believe it should be checked in a case by case basis.

 

[CNBA3]

Zeref would scale to the Phoenix explosion as stated before by people who have knowledge of the past