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Because you argued that Zeref was bloodthirsty. On the contrary, I argue that Zeref was happy to die and was not bloodthirsty, which is why he did not go through the door.
This is what I'm against
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Fairy Tail 100 Year Quest Discussion Thread: Post-Void Saga
- Thread starter DemonGodMitchAubin
- Start date
Because you argued that Zeref was bloodthirsty. On the contrary, I argue that Zeref was happy to die and was not bloodthirsty, which is why he did not go through the door.
This is what I'm against
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Still not the case btw, he just wanted to settle things with Natsu. He'd literally given up on dying to begin with (and as they fought, before the final clash, he was emphasizing to Natsu the world he wanted to create via Neo Eclipse). If he hadn't given up on that, he would've listened to Mavis instead of absorbing Fairy Heart from her. It's not until after the fight and his final interaction with Mavis that he embraces the idea of dying again, since Mavis was able to kill him.
So no, he wasn't holding back, or anything like that. On the contrary, he had every intention to put an end to the fight and see his plan through.
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Shit wtf are u talking about right now
The main point here is that Mavis has a magic power that can fire etherion forever, which can destroy a country when she talks about fairy hearth, and when she talks about etherion, she uses the expression that is powerful enough to destroy a country, and you suggest that you can use this infinite magic power as AP in one go, this completely contradicts what Mavis said, because as I said, the infinite magic power here is not that it can release it in one go, but that it can release AP of a certain power forever.
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They absolutely lost me with that.
Acnologia is stronger than Zeref, like point blank period.
Ravine Acnologia is > Fairy Heart Zeref and Base Acnologia is > Base Zeref, it just is what it is.
Yes Selene scales in power to Acnologia and like that’s fine because in pure power Zeref doesn’t scale that far behind either, my problem with saying the dragon gods beat Zeref is because the only reason Acnologia stomps on him so bad in both scenarios is the absolute lack of effect magic has on him in the verse.
No dragon god has that sheer resistance, because that’s something inherent to Acnologia specifically. We literally see on screen Zeref’s default death magic, begin to kill Aldoron. We also see Selene get enchanted by Irene.
It doesn’t help Selene’s part at all either since she’s far far weaker in her human form then she is in her dragon one and Zeref can just force her to stay in it during the entire battle.
Even if you reread his fight with Natsu, we know that a part of him absolutely did want to lose.
& that two the Natsu that beat him is unquantifiably amped by his emotions to the point that he was literally burning his own soul and existence, so we can’t even really use him losing to that as a basis for the dragon gods being able to stomp him because they never faced a Natsu fueling his power with his existence and at the peak of his emotional ampage.
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LOL I'm talking about the same thing. Just because you have infinite magic power doesn't mean you have infinite outlets of magic power. It only means that your stamina is infinite.
Zeinx1
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Zeref had two goals, one of which he had to fulfil.
1-To be able to destroy yourself
2- The world
Zeref achieved 1 thanks to the natsu, and he could have done 2 by going straight through the neo eclipse door if he wanted to, but he didn't.
Look, zeref doesn't have to fight with natsu here, he can go through the door directly if he wants, but he didn't.
Or he could even use Dark Cage to stop Natsu and then pass through, but he didn't even try something like that because the character really wanted to die.
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Literally. This shouldn't even be a discussion
Zeinx1
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Someone with infinite magic power doesn't have infinite durability lil bro just because zeref won from there (fh) doesn't mean everyone will win from there.
Also, infinite magic power output is something that can be interpreted, even if we assume that zeref is an infinite source of magic power and zeref is a little bit like a charm from here, it is still infinite anyway.
Even 0.0001 per cent of infinite is considered infinite.
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Again, he simply wanted to settle things with Natsu. He'd given up on dying the moment Natsu didn't kill him in their first fight in the Alvarez Arc. Stop ignoring the story itself just because you want to push an agenda
Zeinx1
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This is something that happens with Plot armour (because there was no reason for Zeref not to pass through that door, and if he had passed through it, it would have completely ruined this friendship series) anyway, it is completely absurd that Zeref does not pass through that door, or as I said, it is completely illogical that he wants to clash forces without using an attack.
Zeref had already solved things with Natsu, and it is nonsense to continue this situation again after killing him or killing him in the war in the guild.
There are 2 answers to this, zeref lost on purpose or mashima not wanting to break the friendship series
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It is illogical to attribute Acnologia's power solely to the fact that magic does not work on it. You have to take into account that Elefseria is also talking about 'power' in general when he says this statement.
What you say is not true. Ignia, for example, can burn other magic with his flames, just like his father and Atlas Flame. Also, given that Aldoron has a vegetal form, it is normal for him to be affected by Anksehram. Selene being affected by Irene's Enchantment doesn't mean much. As you say, in human form she was weak, unprepared and unexpected.
The fact that they did not encounter such a Natsu does not make Zeref superior. Dragon Gods also grow stronger as their emotions increase. So you think if they get emotional like Natsu, they will defeat Zeref? I don't think it's necessary to attribute this whole fight to emotions because that's just theorizing.
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LOL NOBODY DOESN'T EVEN DENY THAT IT IS INFINITE. I'm saying that just because it has infinite magic doesn't mean that it will produce infinite magic output/production in one go.
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"Zeref had already solved things with Natsu." No he didn't, because Natsu got back up thanks to Lucy. But regardless, he most certainly wasn't trying to die, as he'd already given up on that
Zeinx1
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If you accept that it is infinite, you will simply accept that it has output, even the minimal use of the power of someone with infinite magic power is infinite, and on top of that, we have something that automatically has 100% output when starting the battle, what are you denying?
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It's an infinite source of magic, which just means there's an infinite pool to pull from, not that anyone's actually outputting an infinite amount (such as the example Mavis gave of Etherion being able to be fired an infinite number of times, with Etherion being a High 6-A weapon)
Zeinx1
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I think you know, but if I have to say it again, I think it shouldn't be difficult to understand that Zeref is the one who created Natsu and because of him, he was caught in this curse, anksheram, and even the reason why Zeref is a bad character is because Natsu did everything for him.
Which zeref does not necessarily have a purpose to do this, he had already shown his superiority in this war event in the guild, the most logical decision would be to pass through the door.
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Why don't you stop bringing up the argument I responded to a few minutes ago?
Zeinx1
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If you draw even a little bit from this pool, it will be infinite. That's what I mean.
In short, simple logic Any amount of infinite power is also infinite power
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That’s not what I’m doing.
Selene is as strong as Acnologia stat wise, stats aren’t the reason Acnologia stomps Zeref, it’s because he’s literally immune to every ability he has.
My first post on the topic said that Ignia was the only dragon god I assumed could beat him because of that.
Except Anhkersam doesn’t have some buff against plant life and Aldoron’s plants are already resist to things normal plant weaknesses like fire, this is absolutely proof Zeref magic works on him.
Magic resistance isn’t something that comes and goes based on being prepared or not, this is absolutely an example that enchantment works on her, besides we have on screen proof that Zeref’s enchantment can ignore baseline dragon resistance which is the only resistance Selene and the other dragon gods have.
Im not the biggest fan on how you misunderstand literally everything I wrote.
I didn’t claim it made Zeref superior I claimed that we can’t act like Zeref lost to a weaker version of Natsu than the one Acnologia or the dragon gods fought because he’s literally went through an unquantified boost an power from the result of guild emotion channeling and charging his blows from literally setting his own soul on fire, you are the one whose theorizing that they could do the same, all I did was just state that in canon he lost to a form of Natsu that no other character has any sound scaling above besides Ravine Acnologia via Mashima’s statement, and the dragon gods don’t scale to Ravine Acnologia.
Zeinx1
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I have no idea what you are talking about above, I am currently responding to what I see myself.
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Okay, and? The fact of the matter is that his intention is not to die, but to defeat Natsu and then pass through the door. To assert that he's holding back and that he's trying to die is literally pushing your own personal beliefs over the very story itself.
Not how it gets treated in fiction, usually. Plus, that isn't the case if you pull an infinitely small amount (as infinity / infinity results in a finite number). You'd need to prove he's actually putting out that infinite level of magic all at once.
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Isn't this a contradiction? Mavis says that only Fairy Heart is powerful enough to destroy Etherion. Just before this, he says that the Fairy Heart has infinite magic power. and then gives the example of eterion to refer to its powerShit wtf are u talking about right now
The main point here is that Mavis has a magic power that can fire etherion forever, which can destroy a country when she talks about fairy hearth, and when she talks about etherion, she uses the expression that is powerful enough to destroy a country, and you suggest that you can use this infinite magic power as AP in one go, this completely contradicts what Mavis said, because as I said, the infinite magic power here is not that it can release it in one go, but that it can release AP of a certain power forever.
Wait...saying it "holds" the spell isn't precise enough. This shows that it has a limit. Mavis already says that the word "enough" would be wrong here, and then immediately points out that this (the fairy heart) is infinite.
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I said that's not the only reason and Selene = Pre-SBT is Acnologia.
I did not see your first message on the subject, and it is natural for me to say that since you did not mention it in the message I replied to you.
What? I didn't even say I never said the Anksehram wouldn't work against Selene.
''Im not the biggest fan on how you misunderstand literally everything I wrote.'' First of all, this usage is not nice. And I just said that linking it to emotions would theorize it, so you shouldn't use it.
Zeinx1
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You still don't understand, it's normal for us to assume that he held himself, this is a situation that happens in all other series, I gave you the name of the attack until the name of the attack "dark cage" if zeref used this attack, for example, it would be completely natsu offguard is (it's like how we say if jojoda used star finger against jotaro pucci in part 6)
Since infinity is infinite, it is not possible to measure it as a quantity anyway, what we say is purely hypothetical.
I already know that it will not be treated as H3a, there is nothing wrong with it only being an infinite source of magic power, it is not "unlimited" I was explaining this to Dragonking above.
Zeinx1
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I have been following this place regularly since 2024, but for some reason, the only moments when the level of activity increases are only these:
The first time a new chapter is released (for a small period of time)
Zeref vs Acnologia
Apart from that, for some reason this place is not active compared to other generals, what is the reason?
The first time a new chapter is released (for a small period of time)
Zeref vs Acnologia
Apart from that, for some reason this place is not active compared to other generals, what is the reason?
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The argument you quoted from someone else was an argument to which I was already responding. So either you didn't read my response, or as I said, you continue to present the same argument to me and others even though I have already responded.
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Natsu has already shown himself to be able to burn away the Dark Cage spell. Really, this is more so a case of Plot-Induced Stupidity (which is quite common in fiction). And the assumption that he held himself back literally holds no weight, so really, it's not "normal" at all.
You're just repeating the same things again and again, so I really have no interest in continuing this if this is how it'll go.
Zeinx1
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I posted that argument above mate I just replied to the manga panel I don't have to read it if you want to tell me something go ahead I'm listening
Zeinx1
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The situation I'm referring to can be thought of as a one-second stun where he can use dark flame. (mashima's fiction protection simply)
I'm bored, I think I'll play a game. If you still argue, have a good discussion.
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Well per canon it literally is, the issue with Acnologia for other god tiers like Igneel or Zeref is that he’s not just generally stronger but kindve like post gods hand herc is with an ability that’s killed him, borderline immune and completely resistant to basically every magic in the setting even the magic made to kill him and other dragons.
I know, I was just making it clear that I also shared this opinion, which is also why I didn’t mention Ignia in my post.
let me just quote your post again so there’s no confusion.
One. Aldoron being a wood dragon doesn’t mean it’s normal for him to be affected by Anhkersam, he’s still a dragon and it’s still magic, him being affected by it means that his resistance unlike Acnologia doesn’t cover that.
Two, resistant in fairy tail isn’t conscious, if Selene was resistant to enchantment she wouldn’t have to conscious apply that resistance it just wouldn’t work, but it did, so clearly she isn’t resistant to it.
Three, Dragon Gods don’t have the same resistance to Magic that Acnologia had, they have the same resistance that other normal dragons have, and Zeref was able to force a dragon into their human form.
It wasn’t mean either, it was me expressing that you quite literally misinterpreted everything I said.
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I would be bothered by this thread... But I just saw Rax the Hero on twitter claim that Jellal one-shots Laxus with Orion, that Jellal will become a Dragon Slayer next arc, and now Jellal is a main character on the same level as Team Natsu now...
So you know what Zeref stans... You haven't been the most head scratching FT scalers today... I apologize to all of us that someone like Rax is somehow part of this scaling community
So you know what Zeref stans... You haven't been the most head scratching FT scalers today... I apologize to all of us that someone like Rax is somehow part of this scaling community
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What I have defended from the beginning is that Zeref gave everything and was defeated in the war, and that's what happened.
?
This is producing energy with its own power. It has nothing to do with infinite output.
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no.. Acno is literally so far beyond Zeref statistically that he is able to crush him.
Acno >>>>>> Wendy Amped Dragon slayer >> post resurrection Natsu > pre resurrection Natsu > Fairy Heart Zeref.
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Gray VS Minato
Gray Fullbuster versus Minato Namikaze Forms to use: X792 | Edo Minato Battlefield: Random universe Gray: Minato: Incon:
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Dude, you are still repeating the same things, no one objects that you have infinite magic power, but we are talking about whether fairy hearth can extract this power at once. Having infinite magic power =/= being able to use it as AP at a time, and yes, stop interpreting the manga chapter I posted as you wish
What I mean is that Fairy Hearth has the potential to use a certain technique forever, but this does not prove that those techniques contain h3a ap.As I said, this infinite magic power only means that he can use certain magic techniques indefinitely without getting tired.
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No, it's just plot armour. And Zeref never fought to defeat Natsu. If he had, he would have walked through the door.
no, as it is mentioned in the panel EVERY TIME HE USES MAGIC, IT CONSUMES HIS MAGIC POWER, AND THAT STRENGTH GRADUALLY DWINDLESS says that every time you use magic power, your strength and endurance decreases. if you have 100 magic power, let's say you have 100 magic power, you use this 100 magic power, you use this 100 magic power when you use it, that is, you do not start from 50 or 60, you use the power directly at the top of your limits. so there is infinite power output.
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I've already told how suddenly you can give up all your power.Dude, you are still repeating the same things, no one objects that you have infinite magic power, but we are talking about whether fairy hearth can extract this power at once. Having infinite magic power =/= being able to use it as AP at a time, and yes, stop interpreting the manga chapter I posted as you wish
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Look, I get you want Zeref to be the strongest in Fairy Tail, but you can’t just ignore the story itself by making claims like “he wasn’t trying to defeat Natsu” to push your agenda.
Not a single person besides Zeinx (who already agreed with you from the start), let alone any staff member, has been convinced - even with you repeating your points over and over again. It’s better to just drop it.
Not a single person besides Zeinx (who already agreed with you from the start), let alone any staff member, has been convinced - even with you repeating your points over and over again. It’s better to just drop it.
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"This is plot armor" ok and? Feat is feat. Even if Zeref passes through that door, what happens is just a reset, he will never be able to fight and defeat Natsu, what you are talking about is irrelevant. Zeref's individual wish is to defeat Natsu in a fight, this is the decision he made at the last moment, Neo Eclipse will only cause the universe to reset.
uhh, I guess you don't seem to understand what I mean, Fairy Heart only helps you get an infinite energy pool, it doesn't directly affect your AP output, you have infinite magic power and it regenerates forever, you never get tired, etc. But Zeref never gets even 1% of this infinity. can't use it.. Its AP output is not beyond 5-A
and I completely agree with this, we have been talking about something completely clear here since yesterday, if people do not respond with any new logical arguments on this topic, I will not argue on this topic anymore, there is no point in filling this place with meaningless texts, I have explained myself enough.
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