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Fairy Tail 100 Year Quest Discussion Thread: Post-Void Saga

Didn’t Gray almost lose to weaken and tired Mira? While she was fighting in base satan soul? She should beat him 9/10 in a normal fight and that’s only counting her second and third forms.
 
Yes but people use the argument he was in base which i dont think was confirmed. And i think he beats satan soul. Not because he's stronger, but because she's a demon. Sitri, Seilah, and Alegria should bop him. Actually nvm Seilah might be sketch against devil slayer mark
 
Veroniica_Lodgee said:
Yes but people use the argument he was in base which i dont think was confirmed. And i think he beats satan soul. Not because he's stronger, but because she's a demon. Sitri, Seilah, and Alegria should bop him. Actually nvm Seilah wont work on devil slayer
Click to expand...
Why would her being a demon matter if he didn't use Devil Slaying Magic? He was in base form, he expressed earlier against the Thunder Tribe he didn't like using that power and was forced to because of script sealing.

And yes, we scale Gray higher than Mirajane on this site. She's High 6A, current Base Gray is 5B and higher in Devil Slayer. So this entire argument you've constructed is moot. Mira beating Gray 9 times outta 10 isn't supported.

This Gray actually used DS and then reverted off screen isn't a strong argument since you can't prove he didn't just fight them in base form. Mashima himself said on a stream Gray is intended to be as strong as Natsu, so even narratively this is supported.

Mira and Elfman weren't on their last legs, they were battle fatigued but we never see them on deaths door.
 
For further evidence, DS Gray easily defeated Hakune, who was able to easily freeze base Natsu and Gray. That's the same level Mira scales to at best. Meaning DS Gray more or less one tapped someone who easily defeated Base Natsu tier people, like Mirajane.
 
Alsotime said:
Didn’t Gray almost lose to weaken and tired Mira? While she was fighting in base satan soul? She should beat him 9/10 in a normal fight and that’s only counting her second and third forms.
Click to expand...
He beat a battle fatigued Elfman and Mira, who are relative in power, in a two vs one in his base form. Him being exhausted after was mostly overplayed, he could fight just fine after.
 
Gray and natsu are comparable yes. Up to a point. Its like using Gajeel or sting and saying they are still his rivals. They arent. They only contend base natsu. Gray isnt natsu's rival anymore. Neither is sting, neither is Gajeel. Does this mean they can never be his rivals again? no. As of right now his only consistent rival is Erza.

How are you gunna say i have to prove he beat them in devil slayer mark, and you didnt prove he beat them in base? It was an off screen fight. Y'all took a panel of a post fight and said he did in in base. So again either they were so weak only base was needed, or he barely edged out with devil slayer mark against two targets that were weak... In what world would it make sense Gray can beat two opponent's whom scale as high as someome who beat him up? (This was when Gray was high 6-A btw.) So gray was weaker than skullion raider, in his strongest form, yet beat two people as strong as skullion at once in base. While still being high 6-A. Does that make much sense? So again they are super weak, or a decently bit weak and he used devil slayer mark.

Yes him being 5-B would matter if it was a vs thread. But its not a versus thread. Im talking about how he has no feats that put him above mirajane. He could have a feat next fight that automatically confirms his win. Im talking about how when that 2v1 happened he wasnt stronger and since then he has no feats to prove he scales above. The only thing we have is assumption. He should always be comparable to Natsu, he was willing to fight Misaki. Thats all we have. He doesnt have actual feats. And if we are using the logic he should always be on the level of natsu then you could use the argument for Mirajane and Erza which automatically buffs her to 5-B-5-A even off screen as they should always be rivals.
 
Its not fanboyism if Gray lost to Skullion raider, yet beats two people as strong as him together while in base. (Again this was when he was high 6-A). Oh and it was devil slayer gray that lost btw. The rational thought it, they were so weak it was a possible accomplishment. Or they are weak and he used devil slayer mark. Either or isn't impressive. I dare say its an anti feat for Gray. If he was fine after the fight it would be a minor feat but the fact buddy acted like he was about to die is an anti feat meaning its more of a they are just that strong rather then gray is just that strong or gray isnt that strong either way you look at it
 
Veroniica_Lodgee said:
Gray and natsu are comparable yes. Up to a point. Its like using Gajeel or sting and saying they are still his rivals. They arent. They only contend base natsu. Gray isnt natsu's rival anymore. Neither is sting, neither is Gajeel. Does this mean they can never be his rivals again? no. As of right now his only consistent rival is Erza.

How are you gunna say i have to prove he beat them in devil slayer mark, and you didnt prove he beat them in base? It was an off screen fight. Y'all took a panel of a post fight and said he did in in base. So again either they were so weak only base was needed, or he barely edged out with devil slayer mark against two targets that were weak... In what world would it make sense Gray can beat two opponent's whom scale as high as someome who beat him up? (This was when Gray was high 6-A btw.) So gray was weaker than skullion raider, in his strongest form, yet beat two people as strong as skullion at once in base. While still being high 6-A. Does that make much sense? So again they are super weak, or a decently bit weak and he used devil slayer mark.

Yes him being 5-B would matter if it was a vs thread. But its not a versus thread. Im talking about how he has no feats that put him above mirajane. He could have a feat next fight that automatically confirms his win. Im talking about how when that 2v1 happened he wasnt stronger and since then he has no feats to prove he scales above. The only thing we have is assumption. He should always be comparable to Natsu, he was willing to fight Misaki. Thats all we have. He doesnt have actual feats. And if we are using the logic he should always be on the level of natsu then you could use the argument for Mirajane and Erza which automatically buffs her to 5-B-5-A even off screen as they should always be rivals.
Click to expand...
Weak arguments ngl. Mashima made that statement about Gray being as strong as Natsu when Natsu was fighting Dogramag. If Gray scales anywhere near that Natsu, he stomps Mira.

As for him losing to Skullion, it was plot everyone needed to lose. Later DS Gray one taps Hakune whose above base Natsu tier people anyway. The Skullion fight isn't ficking relevant anymore since it's a previous arc and was a standard round one loss they have every arc. Using it as a counter for Aldo arc Gray's performance isn't valid.

Also, simplest explanation is usually the go to. Gray said he didn't like using DS against his friends, and he was never seen using it against Mira or Elfman, so it's safe to say he didn't use it. You've offered no evidence otherwise. I can just as easily say Mira used her strongest form in that fight and it would be just as valid according to you. Gray being in base is standard assumption, especially given how he only used it against the Thunder Tribe because he was forced to. So yeah, you have to prove Gray wasn't in base.

Also Erza and Mira aren't really rivals. There is no statement from Mashima about it. So that doesn't buff Mira to Erza at all. Go look at Gray's profile and read the scan for yourself.
 
Veroniica_Lodgee said:
Its not fanboyism if Gray lost to Skullion raider, yet beats two people as strong as him together while in base. (Again this was when he was high 6-A). Oh and it was devil slayer gray that lost btw. The rational thought it, they were so weak it was a possible accomplishment. Or they are weak and he used devil slayer mark. Either or isn't impressive. I dare say its an anti feat for Gray.
Click to expand...
It was a round one loss, everyone has round one losses. It's plot. And besides Aldo happens after that arc, I can just assume Gray got stronger. Hell, we can argue that Gray is just so skilled in combat he can fight two people as strong as him at once. He frequently boxes with Natsu in H2H. But using a loss in a past arc to downplay someone's feat in the next arc is dumb, especially when in Fairy Tail people get randomly stronger for plot all the time.
 
If i'm being real the whole 5-B stuff in itself isn't accurate to what's in the manga. Kiria should be 5-B, Madmole should be 5-B, and SKullion should be 5-B. But they arent. You are going entirely on the profiles when its not a versus thread. If it was there i couldnt argue because i would need a crt to argue what im arguing.
Your hanging onto the 5-B which would die immediately if the other characters got their proper ratings.

Plot? Mmmmkay..

I dont remember exactly but did their fight happen in that other world? Didnt they have extra magic power there? I could be remembering wrong though.

All that does it sound more like he did use it. Not wanting to use it against friends. Meaning he was expecting he would have to if neccessary no?

"especially when in Fairy Tail people get randomly stronger for plot all the time." Right so Mirajane would auto scale next time she shows gotcha
 
Veroniica_Lodgee said:
If i'm being real the whole 5-B stuff in itself isn't accurate to what's in the manga. Kiria should be 5-B, Madmole should be 5-B, and SKullion should be 5-B. But they arent. You are going entirely on the profiles when its not a versus thread. If it was there i couldnt argue because i would need a crt to argue what im arguing.
Your hanging onto the 5-B which would die immediately if the other characters got their proper ratings.

Plot? Mmmmkay..

I dont remember exactly but did their fight happen in that other world? Didnt they have extra magic power there? I could be remembering wrong though.

All that does it sound more like he did use it. Not wanting to use it against friends. Meaning he was expecting he would have to if neccessary no?

"especially when in Fairy Tail people get randomly stronger for plot all the time." Right so Mirajane would auto scale next time she shows gotcha
Click to expand...
Okay, I brought up 5B once, and that was to disprove you saying he didn't scale higher when he did. You cant get angry when you ask a question on this site and someone responds using the sites scaling as evidence. I dont need to hang onto anything. I have evidence, it isn't much evidence because Mashima hates Gray, but it's more than anything you've provided.

You still have yet to prove Gray used DS. He said he didn't want to, not that he was expecting to, that's a big ass jump in logic to connect the two.

And if Mashima makes a statement that Mira is = Erza, then yeah you can make that jump. And it is a jump, people jumping in power doesn't automatically mean this specific character gets specific scaling that helps you win an argument.
 
"You cant get angry when you ask a question on this site and someone responds using the sites scaling as evidence. I dont need to hang onto anything. I have evidence, it isn't much evidence because Mashima hates Gray, but it's more than anything you've provided".

Angry? I just said you are using 5-B as an argument when 5-B fails when the other characters get their proper ratings. Atp what are we arguing here? Gray in a later arc beats Mirajane in an older arc? I mean sure? But again if the other characters i said got their 5-B even though they need it even that's not sound. Are we arguing that Gray at that arc beats Mirajane healthy in that arc? I already said yes but because she's a demon. You said it dont matter he didnt use devil mark. Devil mark or not, they were weak and he won. And since he lost to someone that was even with them, there should be no reason he scales better/higher for beating two weak people. Your also clinging onto he didnt use devil mark but you forgot that part where i said either outcome was sad. Outcome one, they were so weak base was needed only, outcome B he needed devil slayer mark. Unless you really think Base Gray during that time was stronger than his devil slayer mark. Which is pretty absurd as they were all still high 6-A during both encounters. Meaning its implied that, even if gray did improve post lost its not massively so.

And you keep using the dont like using devil mark against friends as if it means he aint use it. Just because u dont like using it, doesnt mean you wont if the situation is that dire. So to me it still sounds like a depressing statement rather than a "i refuse to use it at any cost". That you are assuming esp since he has used it against friends.
 
Veroniica_Lodgee said:
"You cant get angry when you ask a question on this site and someone responds using the sites scaling as evidence. I dont need to hang onto anything. I have evidence, it isn't much evidence because Mashima hates Gray, but it's more than anything you've provided".

Angry? I just said you are using 5-B as an argument when 5-B fails when the other characters get their proper ratings. Atp what are we arguing here? Gray in a later arc beats Mirajane in an older arc? I mean sure? But again if the other characters i said got their 5-B even though they need it even that's not sound. Are we arguing that Gray at that arc beats Mirajane healthy in that arc? I already said yes but because she's a demon. You said it dont matter he didnt use devil mark. Devil mark or not, they were weak and he won. And since he lost to someone that was even with them, there should be no reason he scales better/higher for beating two weak people. Your also clinging onto he didnt use devil mark but you forgot that part where i said either outcome was sad. Outcome one, they were so weak base was needed only, outcome B he needed devil slayer mark. Unless you really think Base Gray during that time was stronger than his devil slayer mark. Which is pretty absurd as they were all still high 6-A during both encounters. Meaning its implied that, even if gray did improve post lost its not massively so.

And you keep using the dont like using devil mark against friends as if it means he aint use it. Just because u dont like using it, doesnt mean you wont if the situation is that dire. So to me it still sounds like a depressing statement rather than a "i refuse to use it at any cost". That you are assuming esp since he has used it against friends.
Click to expand...
First off, accusing people of clinging isn't a great way to engage in arguments. I merely brought up 5B because you said Gray didn't scale higher. That's it. You made it a thing. If you wanna buff characters or think someone is wrong go for it. But you accused me of clinging to 5B, when I wasn't.

Secondly, yeah both outcomes are sad because Gray doesn't get shit, yeah I agree. But I was operating under the assumption the initial prompt meant current Gray vs current Mira. Current Gray has Hakune scaling that's above base Natsu tier fights back then, and an author statement putting him narratively at Natsu's level when he was fighting Dogramag.

Thirdly, Gray losing to Skullion really means nothing. If Natsu can go from thinking he needs to use Igneels power to stop Brandish to casually oneshotting someone stronger than her in base in the same arc, Gray suddenly being able to fight better against a tier of fighter he lost to in a practically plot mandatory loss in an entirely different arc can definitely happen.

And still, nothing has been provided to hint at Gray using DS in that fight.

Is the feat kinda pathetic, yes, but that's Gray. He's barely a mid carder. That being said he has a few crumbs of scaling that put him above Mirajane.
 
XXBenShapiroXx said:
He beat a battle fatigued Elfman and Mira, who are relative in power, in a two vs one in his base form. Him being exhausted after was mostly overplayed, he could fight just fine after.
Click to expand...
Tmk Elfman has never been relative to Mira in power, and Gray being fine later in the day is probably just because of the fact wizard’s passively get eternano back, the fact he had an extremely difficult time beating a weakened bss Mira[the only person he actually considered himself to even be fighting, practically treating Elfman like a no factor] means she’d probably throttle him otherwise, it’s literally brought up in the story that he’s pathetic for struggling against her the way he did and he defends himself with the fact that it’s Mira.

I don’t really see how it’s fanboism when nothing from this interaction implies anything besides the fact that in a normal fight Mira would actually stomp him
 
Alsotime said:
Tmk Elfman has never been relative to Mira in power,
Click to expand...
Man is ignoring when Elfman one shot Seilah who clowned all of Mira’s forms. Plus Elfman also fights a nerfed Spriggan much like Mira does during Alvarez.

If peeps wanna argue with Ben (like goobers) over Mira and the Goat vs Gray using Skullion and Hakune comparisons, just bring up the fact that Skullion bopping Gray due to “standard R1 loss” is the same as Hakune beating Natsu and Gray at first too to yeet that argument out the window.
 
I actually dont think he was comparable to Mira until the 100 year quest. The seilah one shot was nonsensical as even current elfman is only as strong at best to base satan soul. Seilah one shots sitri. So im just assuming its that anime nonsense where if you get caught off guard you have weaker durability. Or she's a glass canon but i doubt its that. Think its just the caught off guard nonsense. I could be remembering the events wrong. I just know she called him and he one shot her
 
AnonymousBlank said:
Man is ignoring when Elfman one shot Seilah who clowned all of Mira’s forms. Plus Elfman also fights a nerfed Spriggan much like Mira does during Alvarez.
Click to expand...
A seilah that was snuck and had just had her powers drained by Mira after a long fight yeah, Mirajane literally spends every other arc being thought of as a monster Elfman cant even compare too, even in 100 year quest where Gray just disregards him as an oppenant and only complains about having to fight base form mira
 
All of this is super funny because you guys are disregarding Elfman just like everyone else was in the Gray and Mira fight. Like Elfman literally just fought along side his sister and got called strong by skullion and madmole, meaning he was as strong as base satan soul mirajane at the very least.

You can't try to say your not fanboys then turn around and try to diss Elfman lol. Elfman is the series punching bag yet he still getting dubs.
 
Alsotime said:
Tmk Elfman has never been relative to Mira in power, and Gray being fine later in the day is probably just because of the fact wizard’s passively get eternano back, the fact he had an extremely difficult time beating a weakened bss Mira[the only person he actually considered himself to even be fighting, practically treating Elfman like a no factor] means she’d probably throttle him otherwise, it’s literally brought up in the story that he’s pathetic for struggling against her the way he did and he defends himself with the fact that it’s Mira.

I don’t really see how it’s fanboism when nothing from this interaction implies anything besides the fact that in a normal fight Mira would actually stomp him
Click to expand...
Because Gray was in base, and we were literally just shown Elfman being comparable to Mira in the fight before hand lmao. Even Lucy commented that they had forgotten Elfman. Mira doesn't stomp, all this is is Gray being Gray, ya know, the guy who thinks he's the weakest person he knows.

The joke was that Gray thought the fight would be easy, and it wasn't, not that he couldn't win outright. Gray's statements about himself are unreliable given his fight with Sai anyway.

Once again, we are back to square one. The best argument for Mira winning against Gray was a gag off screen fight were Gray was in base and a tired Mirajane had the help of someone just as strong as her.
 
'We're not fanboys'

Proceeds the downplay Elfman as hard as possible in order to make Mira look good, something the series already does constantly.
 
Alsotime said:
A seilah that was snuck and had just had her powers drained by Mira after a long fight yeah, Mirajane literally spends every other arc being thought of as a monster Elfman cant even compare too, even in 100 year quest where Gray just disregards him as an oppenant and only complains about having to fight base form mira
Click to expand...
You do realise the 100YQ stuff is a meme right? Elfman isn’t weak at all there. Man damaged Madmole who took FDK hits from Natsu. That’s the kind of monster he is. Mira just has the reputation, Elfman has the scaling.
 
XXBenShapiroXx said:
Because Gray was in base, and we were literally just shown Elfman being comparable to Mira in the fight before hand lmao. Even Lucy commented that they had forgotten Elfman. Mira doesn't stomp, all this is is Gray being Gray, ya know, the guy who thinks he's the weakest person he knows.
Click to expand...
Seeing as Gray has repeatedly used his ice devil slayer magic in this 100 year quest, and even in this arc against opponents that Mirajane stalemated, your assumption that he didn’t have to use it to beat her makes absolutely no sense.
XXBenShapiroXx said:
'We're not fanboys'

Proceeds the downplay Elfman as hard as possible in order to make Mira look good, something the series already does constantly.
Click to expand...
If the series does it, it’s not downplay, it’s just fact.
XXBenShapiroXx said:
The joke was that Gray thought the fight would be easy, and it wasn't, not that he couldn't win outright. Gray's statements about himself are unreliable given his fight with Sai anyway.

Once again, we are back to square one. The best argument for Mira winning against Gray was a gag off screen fight were Gray was in base and a tired Mirajane had the help of someone just as strong as her.
Click to expand...
Elfman is not just as strong as Mira, him being just as strong as her as pointed out above would make no sense storyline wise and that’s not counting the fact that Macro can be used to empower people or the fact that Mirajane had a friendship boosted Elfman sneak attack a drained Seilah.
XXBenShapiroXx said:
The joke was that Gray thought the fight would be easy, and it wasn't, not that he couldn't win outright. Gray's statements about himself are unreliable given his fight with Sai anyway.
Click to expand...
I mean, the joke was that he absolutely struggled with the fight and was on the verge of passing out afterwards and literally blamed only Mirajane for being the reason he was the way he was.
IMG_3673.jpg
 
Alsotime said:
Elfman is not just as strong as Mira, him being just as strong as her as pointed out above would make no sense storyline wise and that’s not counting the fact that Macro can be used to empower people or the fact that Mirajane had a friendship boosted Elfman sneak attack a drained Seilah.
Click to expand...
You can't simply ignore the blatant scaling feats for the sake of a narrative
 
Alsotime said:
Seeing as Gray has repeatedly used his ice devil slayer magic in this 100 year quest, and even in this arc against opponents that Mirajane stalemated, your assumption that he didn’t have to use it to beat her makes absolutely no sense.

If the series does it, it’s not downplay, it’s just fact.

Elfman is not just as strong as Mira, him being just as strong as her as pointed out above would make no sense storyline wise and that’s not counting the fact that Macro can be used to empower people or the fact that Mirajane had a friendship boosted Elfman sneak attack a drained Seilah.

I mean, the joke was that he absolutely struggled with the fight and was on the verge of passing out afterwards and literally blamed only Mirajane for being the reason he was the way he was.
IMG_3673.jpg
Click to expand...
Okay, once again lol, you've added nothing new to the argument. Stating it's just fact without the proper reasoning isn't a good look. Like yes, Elfman is as strong as Satan soul mirajane in 100 YQ, that was the point and you just kinda responded to an argument I didn't make. And the fact we are still on the base Gray argument is hilarious because in order to justify him using it you have to completely ignore the context of the fight. Gray only used DS before against his friends because he had to, his normal magic got sealed. He stated he didn't wanna use that power, so why would he randomly do it again against someone he knows it would be super effective on? For all we know, the reason he struggled so much is because he didn't use DS. Like this argument can easily be tilted in ways you don't like with just as much validity because you have yet to provide evidence for why Gray used DS.
 
And we are still ignoring Elfman, which the series itself jokes about with people remarking Gray was forgetting about Elfman, who we say before hand is just as strong as Satan Soul Mira. So congrats, we are going in circles
 
I don’t even understand why you’re assuming I’m going in circles and ignoring context when Mirajane’s vs page has this is here justification for her rating.
(Her Satan Soul Form fought and matched Skullion. Her Satan Soul Form is comparable to Beast Soul Elfman. Far stronger than Pre-Elentear Devil Slayer Mark Gray, as he did not think he could defeat her until she became exhausted, as well as Loke and Pre-Elentear X793 Lucy, who both doubted they could defeat Mirajane even if the two of them and Virgo fought her together. Casually stomped Virgo off-screen)
Click to expand...
If you disagree so much with the scaling, you can make a crt to have have the justification removed
CloverDragon03 said:
You can't simply ignore the blatant scaling feats for the sake of a narrative
Click to expand...
Yes? Yes you can, feats don’t trump the context of the story, not that it matters because as mentioned above even if Elfman in his best form is comparable to Mirajane’s weakest form, Gray only noted her as being the readon
XXBenShapiroXx said:
He stated he didn't wanna use that power, so why would he randomly do it again against someone he knows it would be super effective on? For all we know, the reason he struggled so much is because he didn't use DS. Like this argument can easily be tilted in ways you don't like with just as much validity because you have yet to provide evidence for why Gray used DS.
Click to expand...
Juvia said he gave the fight his all, so taking that at face value would mean he did in fact give the fight his all, which would in fact include devil slayer magic.
 
Hiro says Gray is relative to Natsu

Base to FDKM Natsu is relative to Suzaku

Suzaku>>>Skullion verbatim

Mira~Skullion

Mira is a Demon, Gray has Devil Slayer Magic

Mira gets washed about as fast as God Serena did against Acnologia
 
I’m pretty sure the question was referring to pre elentir gray, so this scaling is irrelevant to the scenario at hand
 
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