Everyone's Favorite Type of Thread (Nard Revision)

[Ghostimuscrime]

not what I meant. Also, RTN is already canon to the anime

it's not accepted as canon for the manga
that's where the issue lies in

Instead of arguing for it being canon its easier to leave at anime only profiles

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

I’m pretty sure the same issues we take with its canonicity in the manga apply to the anime iirc. Since it still results in Naruto knowing of/meeting his mom and Bee before he meets them for the first time in the story. And it’s not like they rectify this in the anime either tmk. Like just because it’s animated doesn’t mean it has to be canon to every single piece of Naruto animation. Take dragon ball for example, all of their movies are alternate universe type scenarios.

 

[TiltedFN]

"As stated before the LT (Limited Tsukuyomi) is called an experimental version of IT (Infinite Tsukuyomi) meaning that IT when casted upon the world is creating millions of physical alternative realities. The only argument against this is that IT is referred to as a genjutsu by the anime".

I've never gotten this argument at all, why does it matter if limited tsukuyomi is an experimental version of infinite tsukuyomi if its literally shown IT acts WAY different than LT? We are visually shown that IT doesn't transport you anywhere physically, but it puts your mind in a genjutsu, which has multiple statements of not actually being real and was a major plot point of the arc and something reiterated multiple times? These are completely separate jutsu with completely separate functions, Making "millions of realities" is just so blatantly wrong.

 

[Ghostimuscrime]

I’m pretty sure the same issues we take with its canonicity in the manga apply to the anime iirc. Since it still results in Naruto knowing of/meeting his mom and Bee before he meets them for the first time in the story. And it’s not like they rectify this in the anime either tmk. Like just because it’s animated doesn’t mean it has to be canon to every single piece of Naruto animation. Take dragon ball for example, all of their movies are alternate universe type scenarios.

Well iirc some movies on this site gets accepted as canon despite having some minor inaccuracies, it still has a kishimoto recommendation from the volume notes, a kishi one shot that's included in the box sets, references in Databooks, interviews of him talking extensively about it's creation , multiple illustrations and ofc the statement that OP listed about Kaguya's worlds being like genjutsu, I don't think there's any other way to explain that statement other than it being a reference to how RTN dimension taking them to a whole new world.

Given how Ikemoto talked about using the Boruto movie outline for it's manga leads me to think that movies that kishi was involved in (RtN, the last and boruto movie) are likely considered canon by them.

EDIT : Can't verify this but this movie was Kishi's chance to establish Sakura's parents, as he finds this an opportunity to add them I believe he considers this canon
and it's not just sakura's parents, many things about the main story of the movie like naruto growing up with parents are things he's wished to incorporate but missed the chance, he acknowledges RTN as a chance to do exactly that, again implying heavy endorsement for canonicity

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

I’m fine accepting it as anime canon if the majority agree

 

[TiltedFN]

Well iirc some movies on this site gets accepted as canon despite having some minor inaccuracies, it still has a kishimoto recommendation from the volume notes, a kishi one shot that's included in the box sets, references in Databooks, interviews of him talking extensively about it's creation , multiple illustrations and ofc the statement that OP listed about Kaguya's worlds being like genjutsu, I don't think there's any other way to explain that statement other than it being a reference to how RTN dimension taking them to a whole new world.

Given how Ikemoto talked about using the Boruto movie outline for it's manga leads me to think that movies that kishi was involved in (RtN, the last and boruto movie) are likely considered canon by them.

It's clearly just something treated as separate, even from the anime, so does "anime canon" even work. In terms of trying to fit it in with canon events of the main storyline of the anime? I don't think so, it makes no sense.

 

[Ghostimuscrime]

It's clearly just something treated as separate

by whom? the source material acknowledges it's canonicity, the creators recommend it and published manga one shots about it that's sold with the source material itself, I don't see how it can get more emphasized to be main canon than this

 

[TiltedFN]

by whom? the source material acknowledges it's canonicity, the creators recommend it and published manga one shots about it that's sold with the source material itself, I don't see how it can get more emphasized to be main canon than this

Why does recommending it and one shot mangas somehow make it canon to the storyline? Lmao are we just gonna ignore the weird contradictions, and time placements?

 

[That_moron2]

I’m fine accepting it as anime canon if the majority agree

Sheep mentality

 

[Ghostimuscrime]

Why does recommending it and one shot mangas somehow make it canon to the storyline? Lmao are we just gonna ignore the weird contradictions, and time placements?

If it's created by him it's more likely to be canon than not as it wouldn't make sense to call the creator out and work hard on a movie, talk about putting his whole soul into it, do interviews for said movie, just for it to be non canon and having recommendations from the creator should straight up confirm canonicity by default unless there's evidence of it being treated as separate like you said, if there is no evidence for it being treated as separate then that point is null.

I don't think there's any contradictions aside from what arc stated and there's way more positives that incorporate it into canon like the kaguya world statement so minor inconsistencies like that should be overlooked, especially since the site accepts some movies as canon here without the writer's necessarily having worked on them but in universe acknowledgement helping their case, same thing here

 

[KaydeeX]

I’m just going to address the first spoiler argument so we aren’t exchanging walls of text.

Your first argument claims that any jutsu that utilizes Yin-Yang release will be creating form/the physical from nothing, and you use the existence of CoAT to substantiate claim. My issue here is that you’re introducing a false equivalence with the abilities of CoAT and the theoretical capabilities of any Yin-Yang jutsu. Simply having the same constituents doesn’t entail that you’ll be able to do every single thing other objects of the same constituents will be able to do. And we see that is true throughout Naruto with a high preponderance, as there exists a plethora of jutsu “constructed” of the same chakra types that are capable of performing different tasks and possessing different abilities. As such, the onus falls on you to substantiate or prove that jutsu being constituted of the same chakra types that comprise CoAT would grant them the same ability of creation, which is a burden you have not fulfilled.

Regarding Izanagi, over half of your links are broken or blocked in the US, so if you could fix those by throwing them in proper Imgur links or whatever that’d be great. Until then I can’t exactly comment on the truthfulness behind your claims since I cannot view the scans you’re interpreting.

Arc and Deceived sentences be hurting my head

 

[TiltedFN]

If it's created by him it's more likely to be canon than not as it wouldn't make sense to call the creator out and work hard on a movie, talk about putting his whole soul into it, do interviews for said movie, just for it to be non canon and having recommendations from the creator should straight up confirm canonicity by default unless there's evidence of it being treated as separate like you said, if there is no evidence for it being treated as separate then that point is null.

I don't think there's any contradictions aside from what arc stated and there's way more positives that incorporate it into canon like the kaguya world statement so minor inconsistencies like that should be overlooked, especially since the site accepts some movies as canon here without the writer's necessarily having worked on them but in universe acknowledgement helping their case, same thing here

"i dont think there are any contradictions besides the one that were already listed" lmao. Like somehow knowing kushina, and bee before he even met him, how this is right after the pain arc and the village is totally rebuilt even tho after pain it wasnt until the end of the series, how it has absolutely no time to take place in the original timeline AT ALL, it creates all sorts of contradictions that you'd have to just ignore so you can get your precious tier 2 upgrade. It can be non canon and the creator still recommend it lmfao. You can't just ignore the contradictions.

 

[Ghostimuscrime]

"i dont think there are any contradictions besides the one that were already listed" lmao. Like somehow knowing kushina, and bee before he even met him, how this is right after the pain arc

I don't think there's any contradictions aside from what arc stated

and the village is totally rebuilt even tho after pain it wasnt until the end of the series, how it has absolutely no time to take place in the original timeline AT ALL, it creates all sorts of contradictions that you'd have to just ignore so you can get your precious tier 2 upgrade. It can be non canon and the creator still recommend it lmfao. You can't just ignore the contradictions.

I haven't reread in a hot minute but this seems rebuilt and it's not the end of the series

you'd have to just ignore so you can get your precious tier 2 upgrade

Calm down brother, it's not that deep, those are nothing but minor inaccuracies that get dwarfed by the overwhelming evidence for canonicity
Personally I would like to see them as creative liberties

It can be non canon and the creator still recommend it lmfao.

In this case, I don't think so, first of all it makes 0 sense for someone to suggest the audience to consume it, use it to flesh out the world in places you missed and write a whole manga that's sold with the naruto manga for it to be considered non canon, when you reach this level of endorsement I think the only way to overlook this is by bringing extra evidence for them being considered non canon which does not exist

Secondly you're ignoring the call backs it makes to RTN that OP listed so it's not really as unknown to the main lore as you're trying to say

 

[HelloThere1089]

I’m pretty sure the same issues we take with its canonicity in the manga apply to the anime iirc. Since it still results in Naruto knowing of/meeting his mom and Bee before he meets them for the first time in the story. And it’s not like they rectify this in the anime either tmk. Like just because it’s animated doesn’t mean it has to be canon to every single piece of Naruto animation. Take dragon ball for example, all of their movies are alternate universe type scenarios.

This is the type of stuff I was skeptical about. I'm pretty sure if people looked for it, they will find more contradictions.

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

Arc and Deceived sentences be hurting my head

Stop IQ checking yourself

 

[KaydeeX]

Stop IQ checking yourself

No

 

[karo_senpaii]

I will advise the op to forgo this for now and then partner with other verse members to start anime profiles from scratch and not with God tiers come on. Are you just so focused on tier 2 naruto? Personally better arguments to this stuff would be using arguments like "obito just used a small piece of the tailed beasts chakra for the jutsu and the 10 tails chakra in just initial stage was so far above it kurama called it immeasurable, He underwent 2 more stages of amassing chakra" by the time you get to juubito you could argue he has much more ridiculous chakra compared to that and at least equal or much more better chakra control since he is the same person that did the Limited IT and in six path form your chakra control reaches new heights. These are some of the arguments i would have used to try and scale juubito stronger jutsu. But that's just me thinking aloud

 

[Nierre]

Well iirc some movies on this site gets accepted as canon despite having some minor inaccuracies, it still has a kishimoto recommendation from the volume notes, a kishi one shot that's included in the box sets, references in Databooks, interviews of him talking extensively about it's creation , multiple illustrations and ofc the statement that OP listed about Kaguya's worlds being like genjutsu, I don't think there's any other way to explain that statement other than it being a reference to how RTN dimension taking them to a whole new world.

Given how Ikemoto talked about using the Boruto movie outline for it's manga leads me to think that movies that kishi was involved in (RtN, the last and boruto movie) are likely considered canon by them.

EDIT : Can't verify this but this movie was Kishi's chance to establish Sakura's parents, as he finds this an opportunity to add them I believe he considers this canon
and it's not just sakura's parents, many things about the main story of the movie like naruto growing up with parents are things he's wished to incorporate but missed the chance, he acknowledges RTN as a chance to do exactly that, again implying heavy endorsement for canonicity

Not gonna comment on the OP itself as I didn't even read it. I just opened it up, saw Tier 2 and laughed. However, I'll comment on this.

The only things that matter here are Kishi's involvement in the movie and possibly the Sakura point.
Nothing else here really means anything. Illustrations, one-shots, volume notes etc, for the movie don't mean anything because all he's doing is advertising the movie. He's not saying it's canon, or that it's connected to the anime story at all.

Also as Arc said, there are major inconsistencies that you cannot just gloss over. I asked Slayer about the movie a couple days ago and what inconsistencies there are, and this is what he said:

"Bee is mentioned by Naruto even though they couldn''t have met. Likewise, he mentions KCM even though he couldn't have learned it. He recognizes Kushina even though they couldn't have met yet. Basically a bunch of nasty timeline issues." -Slayer

These are major plot points that aren't rectified in the anime, hell, the anime doesn't even recognize the existence of the movie at all, so of course it wouldn't rectify something that doesn't exist as far as it's concerned.


This is a completely different case from Boruto's anime and movie novels, which have explicit statements from the creators of being canon and even references within the manga and manga novels themselves. I heavily disagree with using the RtN movie.

 

[HelloThere1089]

Nierre makes sense. I personally think creating anime only profiles is more work than it's worth. And RtN doesn't even seem canon. The 2B stuff has no basis because IT functions differently than LT.

 

[TiltedFN]

Nierre makes sense. I personally think creating anime only profiles is more work than it's worth. And RtN doesn't even seem canon. The 2B stuff has no basis because IT functions differently than LT.

That's what I'm saying bruh, LT functions nothing like IT, it traps their actual physical body in the god tree for their chakra to get absorbed, its been stated many times to be an illusion in the most literal sense. There's just no scaling to be had here.

 

[HelloThere1089]

That's what I'm saying bruh, LT functions nothing like IT, it traps their actual physical body in the god tree for their chakra to get absorbed, its been stated many times to be an illusion in the most literal sense. There's just no scaling to be had here.

Yeah. And even if the LT stuff is correct, the writers clearly didn't care about the canon story. It's like if the timeslip arc creates contradictions with the prescience stuff, obviously we can't consider the timeslip arc canon anymore. Filler content will always have wacky feats. Because it has no regard for fitting in with the rest of the story.

 

[DavidTPPM]

I don't get the point of this at all. Why do you want tier 2 in the profiles if noone scales to it? It doesn't achieve anything at all, and wouldn't even look good.

You can't even put it in AP because you admit it doesn't actually scale to the user

 

[Ghostimuscrime]

Not gonna comment on the OP itself as I didn't even read it. I just opened it up, saw Tier 2 and laughed. However, I'll comment on this.

The only things that matter here are Kishi's involvement in the movie and possibly the Sakura point.
Nothing else here really means anything. Illustrations, one-shots, volume notes etc, for the movie don't mean anything because all he's doing is advertising the movie. He's not saying it's canon, or that it's connected to the anime story at all.

Also as Arc said, there are major inconsistencies that you cannot just gloss over. I asked Slayer about the movie a couple days ago and what inconsistencies there are, and this is what he said:

"Bee is mentioned by Naruto even though they couldn''t have met. Likewise, he mentions KCM even though he couldn't have learned it. He recognizes Kushina even though they couldn't have met yet. Basically a bunch of nasty timeline issues." -Slayer

These are major plot points that aren't rectified in the anime, hell, the anime doesn't even recognize the existence of the movie at all, so of course it wouldn't rectify something that doesn't exist as far as it's concerned.


This is a completely different case from Boruto's anime and movie novels, which have explicit statements from the creators of being canon and even references within the manga and manga novels themselves. I heavily disagree with using the RtN movie.

How does his heavy endorsement to the film not matter? he brings it up even in modern day interviews (like the recent french one) and endorses it way more than he does with the last and that's accepted as canon here, a lot of movies have timeline issues sure but I don't think that should be the sole factor in deciding to remove it from being canon, and stuff like this in the manga you CANNOT explain without using the movie for explanations, they never had any genjutsu that takes them into another world aside RTN and Kamui is never regarded like a genjutsu

Timeline Inconsistencies shouldn't discredit officially written feats and concepts

 

[Ghostimuscrime]

I don't get the point of this at all. Why do you want tier 2 in the profiles if noone scales to it? It doesn't achieve anything at all, and wouldn't even look good.

You can't even put it in AP because you admit it doesn't actually scale to the user

Because it exists to gauge the feat, if someone brings back UES and the feat is discarded and never used that would be a waste of good material

Yeah. And even if the LT stuff is correct, the writers clearly didn't care about the canon story. It's like if the timeslip arc creates contradictions with the prescience stuff, obviously we can't consider the timeslip arc canon anymore. Filler content will always have wacky feats. Because it has no regard for fitting in with the rest of the story.

Do you at least agree with the Juubito L2C stuff, cuz I think while the 2B argument is questionable the LT feats are kinda blatant

 

[DavidTPPM]

Because it exists to gauge the feat, if someone brings back UES and the feat is discarded and never used that would be a waste of good material

If/when UES is brought back the evidence will be looked through more carefully as it becomes far more relevant.

So even if you did manage to get this approved now because it's irrelevant, when/if it ever becomes relevant people will look deeper into it

 

[Ghostimuscrime]

If/when UES is brought back the evidence will be looked through more carefully as it becomes far more relevant.

So even if you did manage to get this approved now because it's irrelevant, when/if it ever becomes relevant people will look deeper into it

What's the issue in having a discussion? If we can do part of the heavy lifting now and gauge the feat it would save a lot of time, if we try to eat up too much at once it just increases chances of mods shutting it down

 

[Robo432343]

"power of all of creation" refers to the universe

Kaguya scales

 

[DavidTPPM]

What's the issue in having a discussion?

I never said it's wrong having a discussion. I said making a threat about this rn is useless.

If we can do part of the heavy lifting now and gauge the feat it would save a lot of time, if we try to eat up too much at once it just increases chances of mods shutting it down

If you get this accepted now it won't achieve anything and if a UES gets accepted the entire topic will be revisited regardless

 

[Ghostimuscrime]

I never said it's wrong having a discussion. I said making a threat about this rn is useless.

If you get this accepted now it won't achieve anything and if a UES gets accepted the entire topic will be revisited regardless

People revisit God Tier Metas all the time, that's absolutely nothing

Let that happen at least no one will be able to say it was debunked and discarded like the etso note

 

[DavidTPPM]

People revisit God Tier Metas all the time, that's absolutely nothing

Except usually establishing and revisiting those metas actually ACHIEVES SOMETHING.

Let that happen at least no one will be able to say it was debunked and discarded like the etso note

I genuinely don't understand what do you not get.
If am UES gets established nobody will care about this thread and the entire argument will be revisited as if it didn't exist. Why? Because nobody cares about the argument now as it's completely irrelevant and achieves nothing.

If UES doesn't get accepted then the thread is even more useless.

 

[Ghostimuscrime]

Except usually establishing and revisiting those metas actually ACHIEVES SOMETHING.

I genuinely don't understand what do you not get.
If am UES gets established nobody will care about this thread and the entire argument will be revisited as if it didn't exist. Why? Because nobody cares about the argument now as it's completely irrelevant and achieves nothing.

If UES doesn't get accepted then the thread is even more useless.

Let's not clutter up the thread with the questioning
this can be saved for the main verse thread
if you think it's useless good you can unwatch the thread

 

[Ghostimuscrime]

Naruto Shippuden #271 07:08

The movie gets a reference

 

[HelloThere1089]

Lol

 

[45Saef]

This seems solid enough. I’ll drop any changes, suggestions and additions and subtractions if (there is any) later in the future.