Esdeath fights a pokemon...

[ApiesDeathbyLazors]

Well, since my last Character fights a pokemon match turned out pretty alright, I figured "Why not try it again?"

Mega Ampharos (At least 6-C) vs Esdeath with Ice Storm Commander-In-Chief active (6-C), Speed Equalized, SBA

I figure Mega Amphy's new Ice weakness should make up for any major AP difference. And now I wait for someone to burst my bubble.

Esdeath

Ampharos

 

[ApiesDeathbyLazors]

bump

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

Mahapadhma or whatever would work. Unlike a majority of Esdeath's Pokémon opponents, Amphy doesn't resist ice. Just saying.

And...I just noticed the OP pointed that out.

 

[Schnee_One]

So.

Amp is like 4x stronger

But he's completely outclassed in both intelligence, range, versatility, and has an ice weakness and Time Stop helps her escape.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

Intelligence, sure, but I doubt range and versatility.

 

[Schnee_One]

Tens of Kilometers vs Country no not at all, granted that's not going to change anything.

That depends on just what he can do, this is Ice Storm Esdeath who can create just about any ice construct she can think of, a barrel of spikes through its Stomach, an Ice Tree that spans projectiles an Ice Mech to give her extra defense, ice calvalry soldiers to make and spam at him for the sake of a numbers advantage....

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

You make good points, my friend.

Now quick question, as smart as Exdeath is, how seriously would she take a sheared sheep with fabulous hair?

 

[Schnee_One]

Just like she treats anything that looks like a new Danger Beast

"Oh neat, a new danger beast, let's kill it"

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

Yeah...I probably should've seen that one coming lol.

I should probably point out advantages for Amphy, shouldn't I?

 

[Schnee_One]

Sure go ahead

 

[GyroNutz]

So Esdeath can one-shot people at the high end of large mountain level, so she should be near baseline.

Whereas Mega Ampharos is far above 30 megatons (starter feat)

Pretty sure that Mega Ampharos is a lot more than 4x stronger than Esdeath.

 

[ApiesDeathbyLazors]

Mega Amphy has an Ice weakness. Esdeath's Ice will hurt like twice as bad.

 

[GyroNutz]

ik, I'm not voting yet, just clarifying AP

tho even with the ice boost factored in, Esdeath's attacks are still like 5x weaker than Amphy's durability

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

We also have to factor in Thunder Wave, Confuse Ray, Growl, and Cotton Spore, all of which will severely cripple Esdeath with statuses or stat reduction, Amphy's typing allows it to resist Esdeath's sword attacks while Ion Deluge (or was it Electric Flux?) allows it to do the same to an h2h approach, and while Esdeath would resist Fire Punch, her constructs wouldn't.

 

[Schnee_One]

So Esdeath can one-shot people at the high end of large mountain level, so she should be near baseline.

Whereas Mega Ampharos is far above 30 megatons (starter feat)

Pretty sure that Mega Ampharos is a lot more than 4x stronger than Esdeath.

20 Gigatons actually, , which is 5x above Baseline which is an area that Esdeath is quite above.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

No, he's right. 30 gigatons.

 

[GyroNutz]

gigatons, mb. and Esdeath shouldn't be that far above baseline seeing as she scales from one-shotting a high-end large mountain character in Tatsumi

and mega ampharos is far above that number anyway

 

[Phoenix821]

30 gigatons based on this

 

[Schnee_One]

gigatons, mb. and Esdeath shouldn't be that far above baseline seeing as she scales from one-shotting a high-end large mountain character in Tatsumi

Well....

She's above said character to the point that a vastly weakened damn near dying version of herself casually swatted him like a fly without paying any intention

One shotted him with an ice construct no less which he is highly resistant too.

But still, above Baseline, my bad I didn't see the calc

 

[Schnee_One]

We also have to factor in Thunder Wave, Confuse Ray, Growl, and Cotton Spore, all of which will severely cripple Esdeath with statuses or stat reduction, Amphy's typing allows it to resist Esdeath's sword attacks while Ion Deluge (or was it Electric Flux?) allows it to do the same to an h2h approach, and while Esdeath would resist Fire Punch, her constructs wouldn't.

Her Constructs resist Fire

Stat is definitely fair game.

If you can explain the moves that would help immensely.

 

[GyroNutz]

Growl lowers attack, Cotton Spore severely lowers speed.

Thunder wave is paralysis, Confuse Ray makes the character want to hit themselves.

Ion Deluge makes all normal attacks electric attacks which Ampharos greatly resists

 

[GyroNutz]

Oh and electric flux isn't a move. Magnetic flux is a move but is completely useless here, assuming amphy starts off mega-evolved

 

[TurboTriangle601]

@Gyro Not to mention it would make the most sense for normal moves to be basic attacks that aren't martial arts so Amphy would definitely have an advantage.

 

[Graf_Thorsdottir]

I thought 6-C pokemon scale from Alakazam? Which is 9.5 gigatons?

 

[GyroNutz]

Nah, this one now, which is roughly 30 gigatons.

Alakazam feat has been demoted to a supporting feat

 

[Amexim]

How do we handle Special Defense for Pokémon— and things like being hit with a Sword, vs a Punch (is it Normal or Fighting type? If normal, then Ion Deluge works. But not if it's fighting type.)

Also, are TMs allowed or no?

 

[GyroNutz]

Special defense is more of a game-mechanic (as a stat), though I'd imagine it helps to tank ranged attacks/beams/energy balls etc.

Actually, punches and kicks are considered normal type moves. Just look at Mega Punch or Mega Kick. It's only when it's some special martial arts technique that it's actually fighting type. I think sword strikes should work the same way, since swords dance is a normal type move.

TMs are not allowed

 

[ApiesDeathbyLazors]

If it's a metal weapon wouldn't it be Steel Type? Swords Dance is just dancing to up attack. Dispite the name it has nothing to do with the actual swords.

 

[Amexim]

Mach Punch, Focus Punch, Double Kick, Triple Kick, Jump Kick, Hi-Jump Kick- all would want your address to show up at your house and show you how not normal they are. Lol

At any rate, how to we determine the difference between the Special Defensive and Physical defensive shit then, considering some ranged attacks are physical, and some ranged attacks using solid projectiles. Pokémon like Chansey, who are great Specially but horrible physically are nerfed by this.

Also, why do typings apply defensively in battles not against Pokémon? I mean, the logic of Pokémon types breaks down in more "realistic" scenarios like VsBattles— where logic applies as much as it can, if I can explain it that way? Growl— like, it should... Make you flinch or something. Being scared shouldn't decrease your physical strength, but your defense or speed or something. It might be a cute growl, but baby doll eyes and charm make more sense than growl. Realistically, it's a distraction. The statistics manipulation seems like game mechanics in a vacuum, and the anime just tried to mimic the games for Mimicries sake.

Only Mons like Rotom would make sense to have a resistance to steel physically— being made of electricity. Amphy is flesh.

Irrelevant tho.

Amphy, via AP. Stat manip.

 

[Schnee_One]

<AP and Stat Manip

I mean, those are true. But you kinda have to answer my other points

AP doesn't get you anywhere if you're outranged and weak to your opponents attacks.

 

[GyroNutz]

If it's a metal weapon wouldn't it be Steel Type? Swords Dance is just dancing to up attack. Dispite the name it has nothing to do with the actual swords.

I mean, if it's steel type, Amphy naturally resists anyway. The swords dance animation is all about swords so idk.

To make it more annoying, Sacred sword is fighting type, and Aegislash gets sacred sword on virtue of being a literal sword

 

[GyroNutz]

"Mach Punch, Focus Punch, Double Kick, Triple Kick, Jump Kick, Hi-Jump Kick- all would want your address to show up at your house and show you how not normal they are. Lol"

They all got fighting technique behind them. Guarantee you if there was a move simply called 'Kick' it'd be normal type.

"At any rate, how to we determine the difference between the Special Defensive and Physical defensive shit then, considering some ranged attacks are physical, and some ranged attacks using solid projectiles. Pokémon like Chansey, who are great Specially but horrible physically are nerfed by this."

Ranged attacks that use solid projectiles and/or are obviously physical are still considered physical.

"Also, why do typings apply defensively in battles not against Pokémon? I mean, the logic of Pokémon types breaks down in more "realistic" scenarios like VsBattles— where logic applies as much as it can, if I can explain it that way?"

Verse equalisation. If an attack is electric based then it's considered an electric type attack. If an attack is darkness based then it's considered a dark type attack. If an attack has no special technique behind it and is not related to any element or martial arts prowess etc then it's normal type. It kinda breaks down when you apply a lot of realism to it but that's just how it is :/

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

Isnt slapping really hard seen as fighting type in verse?

 

[Jasonsith]

Isnt slapping really hard seen as fighting type in verse?

It can be fighting type or just normal type imo.

 

[Schnee_One]

Uhhhhhh

Inconclusive I guess?

Kinda hard to tell with all this debating going around.

 

[GyroNutz]

Isnt slapping really hard seen as fighting type in verse?

Wake-up slap is fighting type, double slap and tail slap are normal. Its pretty inconsistent

 

[Amexim]

^ Gyro understands the truth.

And it makes no sense for a wild punch with no skill to become Galvanized, but the punches of skill and finesse to not become electric like the normal moves. This is why types shouldn't be applied unless it genetically, physically, whatever— it has to make real sense. Ice type works well against it as a counter, but Ampharos is bulky. It should be eating it up.

 

[GyroNutz]

Another example; a really skilled and precise punch with incredible technique from a martial artist would do less to your average flying type than a sloppy punch that you'd throw in a street fight.

I generally think the types make sense when they're based off of elements (fire, water) or concepts (dragons, ghosts). Normal moves vs Fighting moves is the only real gray area for me

 

[GyroNutz]

But we're getting off topic here.

Mega Amphy has a very sizeable AP and Durability advantage that, even with Esdeath abusing ice type moves, he'll be able to tank her hits and demolish her with a solid hit, which he'd be able to get with stat manip making Amphy faster than Esdeath.

Trouble is he'd need to get in range to do that, which the very intelligent and time-stopping Esdeath probably won't allow.

I'm not sure who wins tbh

 

[Schnee_One]

Uhhhhhh

Inconclusive I guess?

Kinda hard to tell with all this debating going around.