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Esdeath fights a pokemon...

I feel like Oblivious and Inner Focus should have been that evidance, but what about Unaware? Unaware is literally the pokemon ignoreing the opponents stat changes.
 
The thing is, Esdeath's resistance also falls under the definition of Pokémon abilities. It's basically Own Tempo— or similar to it.

An ability in the English language is defined as I said before. In Pokémon, it's the same thing. Esdeath's resistance also falls under both definitions.

Prove that Esdeath doesn't fall under the definition, actually. Because I don't see how it doesn't besides her not literally being from Pokémon.
 
How in the world does Mold Breaker negate Levitate? Power Nullification makes sense, but then again Esdeath's resistance isn't a power. But I think it is accurate to say that Mold Breaker is a form of Power Nullification. But neither of this still refutes what GyroNutz said and it's still not a power for Esdeath nor does her resistance fall under the Pokemon definition of "Ability".

>Oblivious

>Inner Focus

Esdeath doesn't fit either of these descriptions. She wasn't intensely focused when she resisted such things.

>Unaware

She doesn't have stat amplification. She just makes ice and creates ice. That's literally her sole power.
 
No, I'm saying all of those are mental traits similar in how Esdeath has the mental trait to resist mind-fuckery. I'm not saying she has those, but that those are similar examples to explain why Mold Breaker would bypass.
 
Upon some research on Types Advantage and Immunities + the inclusion of Mold Breaker. Mold Breaker wouldn't allow a Ground move like Earthquake to hit a Flying type like Charizard. Similar to what GyroNutz said on Mold Breaker. So I'm still inclined to say no, Mold Breaker is not going to work on Esdeath.

Those "mental abilities" aren't similar to Esdeath's mental fortitude however. The description of those abilities don't match the description of her feats. Ignoring the fact that they match the Pokemon "ability" description that Esdeath doesn't match.
 
I'm sorta inclined to agree with IMade here. That said, Signal Beam's means of confusion seems to be like actually messing with your brain, due to using well...signals, as in brain signals. Idk if that changes anything or not.

Also, Pokemon with an innate resistance to mind manipulation can get confused so take that as you will.
 
What did Gyro even say— that if Esdeath was naturally "like that"? That's the majority of Pokémon abilities that Mold Breaker affects.

In addition, while both of those two abilities don't encompass what she does, the general idea still remains that resistance is still an ability— which has a the same definition in Pokémon as the actual definition of the word— which would encompass Esdeath's Mind Resistance.

Again.

The possession of the means or skill to resist mind manipulation is what she has.

She has the ABILITY to resist mind manipulation. Gyro didn't even make a statement to refute. He just stated that he didn't think it would work. In fact, what little he did state isn't even worth refuting because all Pokémon abilities are just from Pokémon who are "like that".

Point is, having the Pokémon trait "Immunity", which negates poison, isn't a power either, but Mold Breaker ignores that too.

Yes. Esdeath's resistance is literally an ability. May not be a superpower, but it's technically an ability— and isn't even a stretch to parallel a Pokémon ability that already exists, even if it isn't exact.
 
Mold Breaker lets Spikes hit Pokémon with Levitate, lets moves hit Pokémon with levitate, ignores Contrary, Oblivious (mental), Lightning Rod and Storm Drain (biological/powers) and also IMUNITY (biological).

It only doesn't apply to type effectiveness. Can you go into detail about how she resisted mind-hax?

Because even still, if not verbatim, they're similar in concept, and the only thing going against it is your word.
 
Pretty sure her mind resistance comes from when she got her teigu. Every other person who tried to drink, just a sip, of the blood that would grant them it's ice powers went insane instantly. She drank the whole jug, wigged out for a second and was fine.
 
So if Amphy didn't have mold Breaker, it would work for an instant, and then stop.

Mold Breaker stops that completely.
 
@Amexim

I've reposted what Gyro said like 3 times and even directed it at you, have you just been ignoring my arguments this whole time then?

What Gyro said:

GyroNutz said:
I don't think mold breaker works exactly like that. A pokemon immune to paralysis (electric types) still can't be paralysed, for example. If Esdeath is naturally like that it probably won't bypass her resistance
Click to expand...
And again, Esdeath does not fit the Pokemon definition of Ability nor does she fit the description of the Pokemon Abilities you and Apies have linked.

She has one ability, creating and manipulating ice. Everything else does not fit the bill.

I've also been looking up interactions of Mold Breaker with type advantages and immunities like Flying types being immune to Ground type moves like Earthquake. Mold Breaker doesn't stop that which gives credence to GyroNutz's words.

I do not see evidence of Mold Breaker working here.

@Cal

I don't think it would change much? The mental manipulation Esdeath has faced wasn't something crazy, brain signal manipulation seems lower end which is what I would have attributed Esdeath's feats to. Just that she's pretty heavily resistant since she didn't show signs of strains to things that already really screw over people.

@Apies

Esdeath drinking the jug containing Demon's Extract is a feat. People that drank just a sip would have their psyche break and die. Esdeath drank it all and overcame it to the point it did nothing.

She has other feats from other mental manipulating Teigu like Scream which did nothing to her. She wasn't phased it.
 
What definition was that link supposed to point to? Because the first sentence mentions the phrase "game mechanics", and it should be obvious why that's not a usable definition in this discussion.

Gyro's statement is inherently worthless. Not only does it state his opinion, and that it might be different if she was "just naturally like that". All Pokémon have abilities that are because they're "naturally like that" so it's obviously a moot point.

I already gave my definition of what a Pokémon Ability is, demonstrated why that definition fits, and showed why Esdeath's resistance counts as an ability. It doesn't have to specifically be an ability from Pokémon word for word for Mold Breaker to work. Not only has Mold Breaker shown the ability to bypass a Pokémon's natural biological traits, like immunities to poisons, as well as floating above them in the form of a "special power" type ability.

You're arguing semantics without even realizing how you don't make sense. You define "ability" as "special power", when that's not what it means, both in the dictionary and in Pokémon itself. You attempt to link me to the page as if there was even a definition that wasn't meta-fictional on that page in the first place— so you can't even provide a definition for an ability in Pokémon that you think is valid.

I already said she doesn't have to fit the description of these abilities word for word for the general idea that she would still be affected by Mold Breaker to still work. Mold Breaker trumps many resistances— both in-born and consciously applied (like Inner Focus), Mind resistances being one of them.

You consistently get caught up in the fake semantics of the word "Ability" that you're not properly using.

Mold Breaker nullifies both "Special Powers" and "Natural/Biological Traits" that interfere with the effectiveness of the user's attacks. This includes Esdeath's mind resistance. It doesn't matter if she doesn't have a specific Pokémon ability, the same thing happens.

Esdeath's resistance DOES in fact fall under the definition of "ability" in the English language.

—possession of the means or skill to do something.

The definition that Pokémon seems to apply within their fictional setting outside of that game mechanic jargon you linked on bulbapedia instead of a character defining the term also fits by this definition.

—possession of the means or skill to do something.

Therefore, since both Esdeath's and Pokémon's definitions coincide with the English definition that they both share, they are both "Abilities". Literally. Irrefutably.

We have variations of Mind Manipulation Pokémon abilities that we can draw parallels to Esdeath's resistance. The only differences are that Esdeath's resistance isn't called anything special, and isn't a literal Ability from Pokémon (being from different verses).

Esdeath's ability to survive her mind being destroyed is an ability. Mold Breaker goes through resistance abilities.


Ugh.
 
Mold Breaker goes through Levitate also. So again, your points against this argument have been refuted and are now moot.

I keep saying the same thing because it's the most direct way to say it, and you're not understanding it. You seem like you're not reading me.

I will say it one more time.

Esdeath's resistance = Ability by the English language.

Pokémon's definition of Ability = Ability by the English Language.

Ability = Ability.

Special power =/= Ability all the time. Some overlap exists, but not all abilities are special powers.

Esdeath's Ice = Special Power & Ability.

Esdeath's Resistance = Ability, but not a special power.

Mold Breaker nullifies resistance abilities, and has shown the capabilities of nullifying similar abilities to Esdeath's— Special Powers or not. Even if they are not literally the same thing.

Mold Breaker literally makes it so that way brings with "Inner Focus"— interpreter best as a talent for not being distracted or caught off guard/startled— can get distracted and caught off guard/startled. It can affect active and passive mental defenses, by that logic. Esdeath's resistance is a mental defense. Therefore, it can be argued to affect Esdeath's resistance.
 
Back to the AP thing, just found out that Esdeath is >> 4 GT, while Amphy is >> 30 GT. Even with Super-effective damage, she's doing less than 1/3 of what Amphy deals with on the daily, and that's not factoring in Light Screen's defenses.
 
Let's not also forget that Amphy is Thicc— I mean, has a lot of Resilience and Durability if you take his stats to mean anything for a Pokémon of his status.
 
Not by themselves, no. But if we did a battle between Pokémon on the site, we would have to use them to determine who's faster or stronger or bulkier in a marginal sense, since these profiles are all approximations that essentially make them out to all have the same exact power if we're being as conservative as possible. There's even justifications that allude to the stats— like some Pokémon being faster than others.

My point is, the numbers don't mean shit by themselves, but it gives greater context to what a Pokémon of Amphy's caliber would be like. Amphy is above average in Thiccness compared to most Pokemon. This gives him a marginal edge over any other non with his exact VSB profile statistics.
 
Cotton Guard also raises Amphy's durability by a stupid amount. To put it into perspective for fellow Pokémon fans, 1 Iron Defense + 1 Harden = 1 Cotton Guard, and it can be used multiple times.

Esdeath also has to deal with the pure AP of Dragon Pulse and Amphy's innate ability to spam what's pretty much DBZ's Solar Flare from its tail.
 
And again, it goes through special abilities of Pokemon. These abilities being a specific thing of that verse which don't crossover to Esdeath's verse, thus not applicable. And the few "mental" abilities you are trying to equate to Esdeath's mental feats are not comparable to her.

Following this, you have yet to debunk GyroNutz own statement and it is still valid to this point. You keep falling back to the abilities definition that doesn't line up to Esdeath when we know that Mold Breaker doesn't stop things like type immunities.

Mold Breaker doesn't allow things like a Ground Type move like Earthquake hitting a Flying type.

As GyroNutz said: I don't think mold breaker works exactly like that. A pokemon immune to paralysis (electric types) still can't be paralysed, for example. If Esdeath is naturally like that it probably won't bypass her resistance.

If you could provide evidence of it doing so, I would be inclined to agree, but so far no. A natural resistance that isn't an ability isn't being overcome through Mold Breaker.

I still vote Esdeath, despite the AP gap, she can overcome it with resistance to a good portion of Amphy's abilities, range + versatility in Ice Calvary, Time Stop, Ice-Storm Commander in Chief being active and her spam nature with projectiles. Hard fight though cause the AP gap is large.


Random thought: Given that being Frozen is a status effect that can stun Pokemon and Amphy is weak to ice, can't Esdeath stun it with flash freezing as well?
 
You're making the claim that having "thick fat" is a special power, for example then. Thick Fat being a natural aspect of a Pokémon that—

Ok forget it. This part is a matter of opinion at this point— considering lots of things don't make sense in Pokémon that apply vice versa. IMO, Mold Breaker guarantees the victory, but Amphy's sheer durability is just enough.
 
Freezing in Pokémon can be broken out with a physical fire type move though, and even with Esdeath's ice being fire resistant, it doesn't hold up to Amphy's power.
 
The real cal howard said:
Freezing in Pokémon can be broken out with a physical fire type move though, and even with Esdeath's ice being fire resistant, it doesn't hold up to Amphy's power.
Click to expand...
While true that Esdeath's ice can be broken by Amphy physically:

1) How does Amphy perform Fire Punch when completely frozen?

2) The heat generated from Fire Punch doesn't seem like it'd help at given the ice's resistance to heat. It wouldn't melt the ice like a Fire Type move does to remove freezing.
 
@Amexim Yes, thank you. Points have been made, so let's just leave it to others to decide who they agree with.

@The real cal howard Seroiusly?! A three stage boost? That's amazing. I have new set to work with now, and I just got a shiny mareep to test it on.
 
Nothing compared to belly drum. Even if your attack stat had been minimised completely, using belly drum just once will bring it to the max it could be. That's right; a 12 stage boost.

There's the whole 'lose half your health' as a downside tho, but now i wanna make a match with a belly drum mon.

I'll give a serious response in a bit
 
Right, ima address something about my mold breaker statement first, since it seems to have been thrown around a lot.

Pokemon is pretty inconsistent. A mold breaker Pokemon cannot affect a flying pokemon with a ground move, but CAN affect a flygon who is literally always airborne. Like Amexim said - it all depends where you draw the line with mold breaker. I personally think that if what IMade said was right, Amphy won't be winning this by confusing her.

Esdeath is >>>>>> 2.95 gigatons whereas Mega Ampharos is >>> 30 gigatons. With the advantages that light screen gives and charge gives, Mega Ampharos is going to be practically no-selling Esdeath's ice attacks. Time stopping sounds nice in theory, but she won't go for it straight away, and it won't change the fact that Mega Amphy won't be taking too much damage until it wears off. Also, if she uses it, she can't use it later in the battle to dodge a vital hit if Mega Amphy closes the range.

Ice Cavalry sounds like it'd take time, and I doubt it'll be too effective given that Amphy one shots every last one of them with the omnidirectional discharge.

Now, flash freezing. Fire punch sounds like it'd work but this isn't normal Pokemon ice; this is fire resistant ice. However, I don't think it'll be a 'flash freeze gg', as Pokemon are able to brute force their way out of being frozen too, tho it'll be a neat little time waster for Esdeath to get some leverage. Even if it did work; would Esdeath be happy with a flash freeze victory when she's got a meat shield in front of her?

I saw this from her profile: 'She prefers melee combat when not using her Teigu, easily taking on multiple foes in hand-to-hand combat at once and slicing through entire hordes of Danger Beasts with her rapier in a single movement'. If this is true, and Esdeath does get in range, this will spell danger for her. If Mega Amphy gets solid hits off on her, especially when charged, or cotton spore/paralyse her, thus halving her speed, Esdeath will be in a world of trouble.

From what I see, Esdeath has a fair few advantages but none of them are decisive. Her abilities still have a hard time breaking through Amphy's raw durability advantage, light screen and the boost that charge/cotton guard gives. Her range and genius intellect are a deadly combination, but hampered by her tendencies to prolong fights and go for melee combat. Whereas Mega Amphy, given a chance, can turn the fight in their favour by paralysing Esdeath, slowing her down and bolting her with electricity far beyond her paygrade.

Don't get me wrong; this is a close fight, but I think Mega Ampharos will win high-diff.
 
Amp can't No Sell Ice attacks when that is specifically his weakness

Two she isn't >>>>>Someone who makes 2.95 look like a joke.

Emphasis on "Not using her Teigu", which she has and spams the crap out of it.

"Would Esdeath be happy when she's got a meat shield in front of her?"

Ask every fodder she has ever frozen.

BTW how is Amp>>>>>30 Gigatons? He scales to the feat and he last I checked he isn't vastly superior to it? If he is, this a stomp
 
Gargoyle One said:
Amp can't No Sell Ice attacks when that is specifically his weakness
Two she isn't >>>>>Someone who makes 2.95 look like a joke.

Emphasis on "Not using her Teigu", which she has and spams the crap out of it.

"Would Esdeath be happy when she's got a meat shield in front of her?"

Ask every fodder she has ever frozen.

BTW how is Amp>>>>>30 Gigatons? He scales to the feat and he last I checked he isn't vastly superior to it? If he is, this a stomp
Click to expand...
He only takes extra damage from it, it's not like ice attacks ignore his durability. I'm saying he'd take negligible damage only with light screen + defensive boosts up.

Noted

emphasis on "meat shield". If she can prolong a fight she will.

No, no. BASE ampharos scales to 30 gigatons. MEGA ampharos is >> base ampharos. and wdym 'she isn't >>>>>Someone who makes 2.95 look like a joke.'
 
Why are you saying she will prolong the fight if she can?

Exactly What I said, simply ignore the isn't.

Esdeath>>Weakened Esdeath>>>>>>>Tyrantsumi>4th form> 2.95
 
Cause sadism.

She finds a being who both hates ice and can take a bunch of hits from her. It's a match made in heaven.

Also I'm still 99% sure that Mega Ampharos holds a significant AP and durability advantage over Esdeath which can be boosted far further by light screen, charge and cotton guard.
 
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