ApiesDeathbyLazors
He/Him- 7,236
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Hmm. Potentially Inconclusive? Odd. I really expected this to be all one way or another.
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Esdeath fights a pokemon...
- Thread starter ApiesDeathbyLazors
- Start date
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Then why did you make it?
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It's not like he knew who was gonna win. He just expected to be solidly in someone's side, regardless of who it was.
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Fought 1 million soldiers and ten teigu users for hours on end and is completely fine using her strongest ability to cut off her own arm and then proceeds to just shrug it off.
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Esdeath has a high pain tolerance, not really sure about her Stamina. I don't think it was ever stated how long she fought against the soldiers and Teigu users.
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Akame spoke of the fight in Hinowa, but that's untranslated so ignore that
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Hinowa is translated though? It's Simul-pub.
Also, some of those status moves Ampharos uses seem like they'd be ineffective to her.
>We also have to factor in Thunder Wave, Confuse Ray, Growl, and Cotton Spore, all of which will severely cripple Esdeath with statuses or stat reduction, Amphy's typing allows it to resist Esdeath's sword attacks while Ion Deluge (or was it Electric Flux?) allows it to do the same to an h2h approach, and while Esdeath would resist Fire Punch, her constructs wouldn't.
Confuse Ray and Growl seem to be a non-issue given Esdeath wasn't affected by Naul's Teigu Scream which is sound based as well. The other sound based Teigu Heavy Impact had no effect on Esdeath either.
Can't comment on Cotton Spore, don't know what it does.
Ion Deluge makes normal attacks electric attacks. Esdeath's physical attacks fall under this, but her ice is still ice which does more damage to Ampharos.
Fire Punch should do nothing given Esdeath's ice construct and her own body no-sell some extreme heat.
With the range advantage, experience and versatility through Time Stop, Ice Calvary, ice advantage, pseudo-flight and numerous types of ice constructs I'm leaning towards her for now.
Also, some of those status moves Ampharos uses seem like they'd be ineffective to her.
>We also have to factor in Thunder Wave, Confuse Ray, Growl, and Cotton Spore, all of which will severely cripple Esdeath with statuses or stat reduction, Amphy's typing allows it to resist Esdeath's sword attacks while Ion Deluge (or was it Electric Flux?) allows it to do the same to an h2h approach, and while Esdeath would resist Fire Punch, her constructs wouldn't.
Confuse Ray and Growl seem to be a non-issue given Esdeath wasn't affected by Naul's Teigu Scream which is sound based as well. The other sound based Teigu Heavy Impact had no effect on Esdeath either.
Can't comment on Cotton Spore, don't know what it does.
Ion Deluge makes normal attacks electric attacks. Esdeath's physical attacks fall under this, but her ice is still ice which does more damage to Ampharos.
Fire Punch should do nothing given Esdeath's ice construct and her own body no-sell some extreme heat.
With the range advantage, experience and versatility through Time Stop, Ice Calvary, ice advantage, pseudo-flight and numerous types of ice constructs I'm leaning towards her for now.
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Small thing, as you make good points, but Confuse Ray is light based, not sound based.
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You are correct. I'm confusing it for another ability that would make a multi circle effect towards the target which I always took as sound waves.
However, Esdeath should be resistant to a degree given she overcame or was immune to two instance of mental manipulation. The Teigu Scream affects a target's will and emotion and it had no effect on Esdeath. Previous to that she had drank an entire chalice of blood of Demon's Extract when a simple cup of the blood from the chalice would break an individual's psyche.
However, Esdeath should be resistant to a degree given she overcame or was immune to two instance of mental manipulation. The Teigu Scream affects a target's will and emotion and it had no effect on Esdeath. Previous to that she had drank an entire chalice of blood of Demon's Extract when a simple cup of the blood from the chalice would break an individual's psyche.
ApiesDeathbyLazors
He/Him- 7,236
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Cotton Spore lowers speed by covering you in cotton to restrict movement. I would think Thunder Wave would be the most dangerous status attack.
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Couple questions about the Cotton Spores:
1) Couldn't Esdeath just avoid them and not let them land on her?
2) Couldn't she remove them if they did get on her? She can produce ice from her body in the form of Ice Armor and she could do her whole body as seen in the final fight with Akame. Thus push them off.
Thunder Wave does seem the most deadly given it causes paraylsis by electricity. But it does seem to be blockable by ice or just dodged.
Plus, Esdeath could manipulate ice around her while paraylzed. That's how she flies, by manipulating the ice attached to her. Or Ice Calvary/Ice Mech. Doesn't seem that big a deal with her versatility.
1) Couldn't Esdeath just avoid them and not let them land on her?
2) Couldn't she remove them if they did get on her? She can produce ice from her body in the form of Ice Armor and she could do her whole body as seen in the final fight with Akame. Thus push them off.
Thunder Wave does seem the most deadly given it causes paraylsis by electricity. But it does seem to be blockable by ice or just dodged.
Plus, Esdeath could manipulate ice around her while paraylzed. That's how she flies, by manipulating the ice attached to her. Or Ice Calvary/Ice Mech. Doesn't seem that big a deal with her versatility.
ApiesDeathbyLazors
He/Him- 7,236
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- #54
Sure cotton spore should be easy to avoid one way or another, but thunder wave might me harder. Water conducts electricity after all, so maybe ice armor might not be the best option?
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Ice doesn't conduct electricity like water though.
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IMade is right.
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Oh. Also, Esdeath tries her pseudo flight, she might get struck by the OP move Thunder, and Light Screen would weaken the super-effectiveness of her ice.
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Is Thunder's speed equivalent to lightning or such? Cause we know Esdeath is more than capable of dodging lightning or blocking it with more ice in the form of Ice Walls, Ice Shields or Ice Armor.
Light Screen should work for Ampy though. How does the 5 turn rule apply in a battle though? I'd assume it only works for 5 hits which with Esdeath's spam nature and firing dozens of projectiles at once seems like it'd run out quick for Ampy.
Light Screen should work for Ampy though. How does the 5 turn rule apply in a battle though? I'd assume it only works for 5 hits which with Esdeath's spam nature and firing dozens of projectiles at once seems like it'd run out quick for Ampy.
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Given moves like Bullet Seed don't detract from the duration of Screens, it's more of a time based thing rather than a damage based one.
With Thunder, it scales to Amphy, so no about the MHS+ stuff. Also, we can't forget that Amphy is a good amount stronger and Thunder is its second strongest move. If Esdeath can block it, it won't be without taking a toll on her.
With Thunder, it scales to Amphy, so no about the MHS+ stuff. Also, we can't forget that Amphy is a good amount stronger and Thunder is its second strongest move. If Esdeath can block it, it won't be without taking a toll on her.
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That's brings a difficult question then, how do we quantify the time equivalent of 5 turns to an actual fight?
Scaled speed of Thunder and speed equalized would mean Esdeath is still able to block or dodge to my understanding then. Also, it summons the bolt from the sky and given Esdeath's knowledge if Budo, I'd argue she would realize it and avoid it preemptively
Why would Esdeath blocking it take a toll on her? She has numerous blocking methods being Ice Wall, Ice Shields and Ice Armor with the latter being a more last resort/up close attack.
I still lean towards Esdeath since she renders a lot of Amphy's arsenal null, ice not being a good conductor, better range, versatility, experience and spam attack nature.
Amphy's advantage seems to be just hitting harder and ability to stall with moves like Light Screen (Ion Deluge would be helpful if Esdeath's ice wasn't a "special attack").
Scaled speed of Thunder and speed equalized would mean Esdeath is still able to block or dodge to my understanding then. Also, it summons the bolt from the sky and given Esdeath's knowledge if Budo, I'd argue she would realize it and avoid it preemptively
Why would Esdeath blocking it take a toll on her? She has numerous blocking methods being Ice Wall, Ice Shields and Ice Armor with the latter being a more last resort/up close attack.
I still lean towards Esdeath since she renders a lot of Amphy's arsenal null, ice not being a good conductor, better range, versatility, experience and spam attack nature.
Amphy's advantage seems to be just hitting harder and ability to stall with moves like Light Screen (Ion Deluge would be helpful if Esdeath's ice wasn't a "special attack").
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I've been classifying it as "moments" during my span here. However long moments are is up to debate.
That's true. However, Thunder is designed to both, hit harder and more accurately if the target takes to the air.
It would take a toll on her due to the AP gap, which isn't stompworthy, but still rather sizable. Amphy is still a Mega Evolved Pokemon after all, and while it takes double damage from ice attacks, it still has an AP/Dura boost from its previous form, which already has the sizable AP advantage.
Ice not being a good conductor doesn't really stop electric types from hitting Ice types as hard as anything else, and ice constructs can still be destroyed by pure AP. Plus, Signal Beam is still on the table. Along with the AoE of Discharge.
That's true. However, Thunder is designed to both, hit harder and more accurately if the target takes to the air.
It would take a toll on her due to the AP gap, which isn't stompworthy, but still rather sizable. Amphy is still a Mega Evolved Pokemon after all, and while it takes double damage from ice attacks, it still has an AP/Dura boost from its previous form, which already has the sizable AP advantage.
Ice not being a good conductor doesn't really stop electric types from hitting Ice types as hard as anything else, and ice constructs can still be destroyed by pure AP. Plus, Signal Beam is still on the table. Along with the AoE of Discharge.
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Is there any to quantify moments at all then?
Ampharos doesn't fly so Esdeath taking to air is most likely not gonna happen. She's only done it against large crowds or against flying opponents. She'd most likely only use it in this fight if she were to somehow be paraylzed as it would grant her movement back.
Yeah there is the AP gap, but this is assuming that Esdeath is just chilling behind her Ice Walls and/or Ice Shields as it breaks through. Plus she can layer up defense with multi Ice Walls, multi Ice Shields and Ice Armor or move out the way as it's breaks through.
Ice not being a good conductor is for the status/AoE stuff like Discharge. Signal Beam isn't that much of an issue since the confusing element would be resisted if it landed.
The fight seems to be coming down to what abilities from either side works first. Given how any of Esdeath's abilities can hurt Ampharos and how she is resistant to a good portion of Ampharos moves, it seems more likely she would be landing the more hits as Ampharos cycles through moves that fail or work.
Plus there is always Time Stop, Ice Calvary, Ice Storm Commander in Chief active on the battlefield and her large range (SBA is on so they're 4km apart at NYC).
Ampharos doesn't fly so Esdeath taking to air is most likely not gonna happen. She's only done it against large crowds or against flying opponents. She'd most likely only use it in this fight if she were to somehow be paraylzed as it would grant her movement back.
Yeah there is the AP gap, but this is assuming that Esdeath is just chilling behind her Ice Walls and/or Ice Shields as it breaks through. Plus she can layer up defense with multi Ice Walls, multi Ice Shields and Ice Armor or move out the way as it's breaks through.
Ice not being a good conductor is for the status/AoE stuff like Discharge. Signal Beam isn't that much of an issue since the confusing element would be resisted if it landed.
The fight seems to be coming down to what abilities from either side works first. Given how any of Esdeath's abilities can hurt Ampharos and how she is resistant to a good portion of Ampharos moves, it seems more likely she would be landing the more hits as Ampharos cycles through moves that fail or work.
Plus there is always Time Stop, Ice Calvary, Ice Storm Commander in Chief active on the battlefield and her large range (SBA is on so they're 4km apart at NYC).
ApiesDeathbyLazors
He/Him- 7,236
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Hey so, Mold Breaker. It allows moves to affect the target reguardless of passive abilities. Would that allow Amphy to bypass Esdeath's mind resistance?
EDIT: I just checked and it absolutly should. Mold Breaker bypasses Own Tempo which make Mons immune to confusion.
EDIT: I just checked and it absolutly should. Mold Breaker bypasses Own Tempo which make Mons immune to confusion.
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Esdeath's resistance to mental manipulation isn't a passive ability nor even an ability as well. Her only ability is ice creation/manipulation.
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Yeah, I looked it up, it works for abilities specifically. The thing is, the separation between abilities and "abilities" is a distinction without a difference.
Say the Source of Esdeath's power is her biology (I don't know much about Kill la Kill other than the fact that it's Texas Chainsaw Masacre Waifu addition and that Tatsumi is cool...), it would be no different than her mental training— because bringing all that up with training would still be biological, as the brain is where the mind is, and the mind is a part of one's biology. If we call resistance to something an ability— defined as the "possession of the means or skill to do something"— then it would still be an ability.
Her powers being magic doesn't really change anything. Still an "ability" technically.
Say the Source of Esdeath's power is her biology (I don't know much about Kill la Kill other than the fact that it's Texas Chainsaw Masacre Waifu addition and that Tatsumi is cool...), it would be no different than her mental training— because bringing all that up with training would still be biological, as the brain is where the mind is, and the mind is a part of one's biology. If we call resistance to something an ability— defined as the "possession of the means or skill to do something"— then it would still be an ability.
Her powers being magic doesn't really change anything. Still an "ability" technically.
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Esdeath is from Akame Ga Kill, not Kill la Kill. The source of Esdeath's only power is her Teigu, it lets her create and manipulate ice.
Her mental fortitude is just how she is, it's not an ability.
Her mental fortitude is just how she is, it's not an ability.
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Is her teigu her sword?
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Her teigu is Demon's Extract which is the blood of a super class danger beast that manipulated ice, she has a symbol on her chest signifying that she is a user of Demon's Extract
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Nah, Esdeath is fine against Mold Breaker by your own words. She has no power nor ability besides her Teigu creating and manipulating ice. Her mental fortitude isn't an ability either as any human in the AGK world could potentially be of that level (Tatsumi at the beginning of the series had some resistance to mental manipulation). Esdeath is just a heavily trained human with a Teigu that gives creation and control over ice.Amexim said:
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Then yeah, it's not working on Esdeath. She only has one ability, her Teigu letting her control and manipulate ice.GyroNutz said:
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No, my words demonstrate that she has an ability. Walking, is by definition, an ability. Anything she can do is an ability.
If you mean "special power", than that's something different. But not even every Pokémon ability is a special power. Some of them are just results of their biology or mental traits.
So, unless you want to say having a Keen Eye is a "special power", "mental fortitude" is an ability.
If you mean "special power", than that's something different. But not even every Pokémon ability is a special power. Some of them are just results of their biology or mental traits.
So, unless you want to say having a Keen Eye is a "special power", "mental fortitude" is an ability.
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The issue here is that the word "ability" means a special ability in Pokemon.
Mold Breaker's description as of Gen 7: Moves can be used on the target regardless of its Abilities.
And "Ability" is a thing in Pokemo that is not equivalent to Esdeath. Plus what GyroNutz said:
Mold Breaker's description as of Gen 7: Moves can be used on the target regardless of its Abilities.
And "Ability" is a thing in Pokemo that is not equivalent to Esdeath. Plus what GyroNutz said:
GyroNutz said:
ApiesDeathbyLazors
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But then Mold Breaker works on things like Insomnia and Dry Ski. An ability in pokemon is just a trait, be it physical or mental, that grants pokemon passives. You also have Oblivious and Inner Focus, both mental skills that can be trained in any other fiction.
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Those fall under the Pokemon definition of Ability though which Esdeath doesn't fit in. If you have evidence against what GyroNutz says then I would be inclined to agree.
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As Apies said, it's not always just a "special power". Sometimes it's solely biological.
In this case, the more accurate definition of ability is as I said. "possession of the means or skill to do something." In the case of the ability insomnia— the aforementioned trait indicates that the owner has the possession of the means or skill to not be able to be put to sleep in battle.
So, no. Esdeath has no counter to Confusion via Mold Breaker. Which also, hilariously, negates things like LEAVITATE. I don't know any other way to explain this other than resistance and power nullification.
In this case, the more accurate definition of ability is as I said. "possession of the means or skill to do something." In the case of the ability insomnia— the aforementioned trait indicates that the owner has the possession of the means or skill to not be able to be put to sleep in battle.
So, no. Esdeath has no counter to Confusion via Mold Breaker. Which also, hilariously, negates things like LEAVITATE. I don't know any other way to explain this other than resistance and power nullification.
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