End of season I Equal Stats: Luffy vs Goku vs Ichigo vs Naruto

[Orange]

No? He didn't absorb it, he absorbed his own god ki and made it in his base form. Essentially having the power and speed of ssg+ god ki in base form

 

[Ss3micah]

Weakest Bakudo doesn’t mean anything when it basically does the same thing as God Bind, was broken out of by human Ichigo, and it was cast by Rukia who was far and away stronger than Ichigo at the time. Ichigo getting subdued by stronger Kido also never happens.

Based on that thinking your essentially saying Ichigo can break out of ANY telekinetic bind from any Character. Like Jean Grey with her Telekenesis would only be able to hold Ichigo for a few seconds? Aw hell nah

1. The was literally beginning of series Rukia
2. Kido can be powered up and I highly DOUBT rukia was using a full powered bakudo on him
3. Ichigo was still bound for a while
4. Unlike Kido, the God Bind's hold can be increased by goku as it is constantly linked to him unlike bakudo that once it's released can't get stronger

Not really imo. I can sort of see where you are coming from but nothing actually says Pesquisa fails against Hollows and verse equal means the powers will work like how they are supposed to in the OG setting.

I suppose.

With the context of HBTC and Dangai training, Luffy will be hard pressed to even come close to the amount of training Goku and Ichigo can get in since the latter got 2.5 to 3 months out of roughly an hour. 5 days would be 300+ months of training.

I think both are restricted anyways so....

Ichigo is multiple times transcendent, is basically the same thing as the Soul King who is most certainly divine enough seeing as Yhwach (who is a demigod in comparison to SK) could give Lille a Schrift that was enough to qualify him and his powers as divine as explained in the Nanao fight. Ichigo also possesses Fullbring which is a piece of the Soul King, has Quincy blood (the power of Yhwach who is considered divine himself), is a death god (sounds pretty divine) etc.

Sounds more like a put together demigod but I suppose

And how is God Ki any different? We know people can sense it so why is that also not simply because it is “beyond their level of awareness”? SirAlex even brought up how Hit could sense Goku despite God Ki which only further supports my stance. As for Ichigo not being divine, see above.

And I debunked him saying people who aren't gods or do not possess divine ki can't sense their energy, just the pressure their power exerts in the atmosphere
Hit for all terms and purposes is a borderline outlier or has developed god ki sensing in the 1000 years he's lived. unfortunately we may never know given he has zero backstory

Ichigo: A person who evolved from primates, can wield a supernatural energy and also has powers gained from extremely powerful beings that are seen as and called gods whom he eventually surpasses

Goku: A person who evolved from primates, can wield a supernatural energy and also has powers gained from extremely powerful beings that are seen as and called gods whom he eventually surpasses.

Looks pretty similar to me.

That's 100 anime characters in a nutshell to be honest

 

[Orange]

People that are Gods, people that can sense evil intent and universal distances couldn't sense goku informt of them. And goku in UI stops his emotional from leaking, cuz ya know...relying on instincts alone.

 

[AnonymousBlank]

Based on that thinking your essentially saying Ichigo can break out of ANY telekinetic bind from any Character. Like Jean Grey with her Telekenesis would only be able to hold Ichigo for a few seconds? Aw hell nah

I never said that though. My point is that Ichigo already broke out of something similar from someone much stronger than him. Goku and Ichigo have equal LS at the start of this which means it isn’t far fetched to say Ichigo can break through the God Bind.

1. The was literally beginning of series Rukia

Still way stronger with Ichigo

2. Kido can be powered up and I highly DOUBT rukia was using a full powered bakudo on him

That would be an assumption on your part. She specifically exerted herself (in the sense that she had to choose to do it and it isn’t some passive instinctual thing like breathing) to do this which means it would be on par with the likes of Seated officer attacks

3. Ichigo was still bound for a while

Yes the Ichigo who was surprised by getting hit with voodoo magic and once he actually had motivation to break out m, he did.

4. Unlike Kido, the God Bind's hold can be increased by goku as it is constantly linked to him unlike bakudo that once it's released can't get stronger

Kido can be boosted after its cast, Hachi showed us this against Barragan.

I suppose.

I think both are restricted anyways so....

Sad times, sad times.

Sounds more like a put together demigod but I suppose

Being put together doesn’t mean anything as after a quick Google search, Goku gained God Ki through a ritual. That right there is “put together” whereas Ichigo was just built different from the get go.

And I debunked him saying people who aren't gods or do not possess divine ki can't sense their energy, just the pressure their power exerts in the atmosphere
Hit for all terms and purposes is a borderline outlier or has developed god ki sensing in the 1000 years he's lived. unfortunately we may never know given he has zero backstory

No, you gave a statement saying X which is based on Y’s knowledge. Unless Y is omniscient, the statement doesn’t matter when Z comes along and just does what Y says can’t happen.

That's 100 anime characters in a nutshell to be honest

Teeny bit more than 100 imo lol

 

[SirAlex09]

Considering God bind.. It did work on Broly who was stronger than God Goku.

(The only reason Base Goku was able to keep up with Broly in Base ,SSJ and God was due to Skill) Broly needed to use Ki manipulation to reverse its flow onto Goku

 

[Orange]

Again, HiT is an outlier. There are many statements of goku can't be sensed. And one that ge can be sensed. Why should we take the outlier and put it as the rule and not the exception, when in reality it's the exception

 

[Orange]

Considering God bind.. It did work on Broly who was stronger than God Goku.

The only reason Base Goku was able to keep up with Broly in Base ,SSJ and God was due to Skill

The reason broly got away from it not because of brute strength, but because he reversed it and did god bind on goku-

 

[SirAlex09]

And about Rukia and Ichigo:

I think it was established that Ichigo's control of his spiritual pressure sucked and it was fluctuating a lot. ( That's what Ulquiorra said.) Since his potential is vastly higher than Rukia, it isn't far fetched to assume that he surpassed her power temporarily when he broke out.

 

[Ss3micah]

I never said that though. My point is that Ichigo already broke out of something similar from someone much stronger than him. Goku and Ichigo have equal LS at the start of this which means it isn’t far fetched to say Ichigo can break through the God Bind.

Given goku's rate of accelerated development plus he will still have access to multiple other means of viable training, I highly doubt that. Even more so because Ichigo doesn't have access to the dangai anymore

Still way stronger with Ichigo

Not by more than x10 times considering ichigo kicked her ass across his room

That would be an assumption on your part. She specifically exerted herself (in the sense that she had to choose to do it and it isn’t some passive instinctual thing like breathing) to do this which means it would be on par with the likes of Seated officer attacks

That's also an assumption, that they would exert such force on innocent civilians

Yes the Ichigo who was surprised by getting hit with voodoo magic and once he actually had motivation to break out m, he did.

Still took him a while

Kido can be boosted after its cast, Hachi showed us this against Barragan.

I stand corrected by him and him alone given his mastery of kido

No, you gave a statement saying X which is based on Y’s knowledge. Unless Y is omniscient, the statement doesn’t matter when Z comes along and just does what Y says can’t happen.

Your essentially calling beerus and whis (the voices of knowledge) and every other GoD a liar in favor of Hit. Hit definitely is either an outlier or has developed god ki sense in his 1000 years

Teeny bit more than 100 imo lol

Haha lol

 

[AnonymousBlank]

And about Rukia and Ichigo:

I think it was established that Ichigo's control of his spiritual pressure sucked and it was fluctuating a lot. ( That's what Ulquiorra said.) Since his potential is vastly higher than Rukia, it isn't far fetched to assume that he surpassed her power temporarily when he broke out.

His power fluctuated during the Arrancar saga because of Zangetsu trying to take over and Ichigo was subconsciously suppressing him most of the time ever since the fight on Sokyoku Hill.

Again, HiT is an outlier. There are many statements of goku can't be sensed. And one that ge can be sensed. Why should we take the outlier and put it as the rule and not the exception, when in reality it's the exception

Why is Hit an outlier? Do all those statements come from people who are aware of everything Hit can do? If not, they don’t matter since they aren’t omniscient and he directly performs the feat that contradicts those statements. The only way it would be an outlier is if Hit failed to sense it multiple times and then proceeds to sense it one time and it wasn’t the result of outside intervention.

Given goku's rate of accelerated development plus he will still have access to multiple other means of viable training, I highly doubt that. Even more so because Ichigo doesn't have access to the dangai anymore

Ichigo can just walk into the Dangai tho?

Not by more than x10 times considering ichigo kicked her ass across his room

You realise that Ichigo was peak human back then and Rukia was town level right? It also ain’t hard to send a 5 foot, maybe 100 pound girl flying when you are strong enough to send grown men flying while only 13/14.

That's also an assumption, that they would exert such force on innocent civilians

If you raise your arm to point the remote at your TV, are you not exerting yourself? Is this not more energy than your arm uses when it just hangs by your side? So yes, Rukia did indeed have to exert herself to cast said Kido. I am not assuming, I am using common sense.

Still took him a while

Bro. He saw Karin in Fishbone’s hand and snapped the Bakudo instantly.

I stand corrected by him and him alone given his mastery of kido

Your essentially calling beerus and whis (the voices of knowledge) and every other GoD a liar in favor of Hit. Hit definitely is either an outlier or has developed god ki sense in his 1000 years

Yes, yes I am. Do they know everything he can do? No? Then their statements don’t apply to him when he directly contradicts their statements with a feat. So Hit is a god? The very fact you entertain this notion means you are disagreeing for the sake of it. If you are willing to accept that Hit can develop a sense for God Ki without being a god, why is Ichigo, who has plenty of stuff to say he himself would be a god and feats of sensing the people who are gods in his verse (that can’t be sensed by the rest of the verse because of their status), a problem?

 

[Orange]

Multiple statements says people that don't have god ki can't sense goku's ki.
Hit was able to do it, then hit an Sense it, that's it. Hit can sense god ki
The others can't sense they don't have feat of doing so

 

[Ss3micah]

Ichigo can just walk into the Dangai tho?

Not according to OP, he can't

You realise that Ichigo was peak human back then and Rukia was town level right? It also ain’t hard to send a 5 foot, maybe 100 pound girl flying when you are strong enough to send grown men flying while only 13/14.

I was joking lol. Sorry if you couldn't tell.

If you raise your arm to point the remote at your TV, are you not exerting yourself? Is this not more energy than your arm uses when it just hangs by your side? So yes, Rukia did indeed have to exert herself to cast said Kido. I am not assuming, I am using common sense.

Touche

Bro. He saw Karin in Fishbone’s hand and snapped the Bakudo instantly.

INSTANTLY YOU SAY???????

Yes, yes I am. Do they know everything he can do? No? Then their statements don’t apply to him when he directly contradicts their statements with a feat. So Hit is a god? The very fact you entertain this notion means you are disagreeing for the sake of it. If you are willing to accept that Hit can develop a sense for God Ki without being a god, why is Ichigo, who has plenty of stuff to say he himself would be a god and feats of sensing the people who are gods in his verse (that can’t be sensed by the rest of the verse because of their status), a problem?

I'm more incline to believe that Ichigo can develop god sensing skills especially since energy is equalized than to believe that the angels and gods (who essentially speak the will of the creators, editors and narrative of the verse) are wrong

 

[Orange]

Aldo hit can adapt he likely adapted to god ki.
And we can just treat as "hit has the ability to sense god ki" or PIS
Results stays the same, none of them can sense god ki if they aren't a deity or have deity energy in them

 

[AnonymousBlank]

Multiple statements says people that don't have god ki can't sense goku's ki.
Hit was able to do it, then hit an Sense it, that's it. Hit can sense god ki
The others can't sense they don't have feat of doing so

Never argued the others could though rereading the posts above, I feel like I might have misunderstood what you meant by outlier. Do you mean to say that Hit can do it and it is a valid feat but it simply doesn’t scale to anyone else? Cuz if so, I agree. My initial take when you called it an outlier was that the feat wasn’t valid.

Not according to OP, he can't

Lmao yeah. I was just arguing that point independent of the thread since it was already established that Ichigo and Goku don’t get their handy dandy time warping training rooms.

I was joking lol. Sorry if you couldn't tell.

Imma have to go relearn how to read sarcasm.

INSTANTLY YOU SAY???????

Anime is weirdly stretched out. Manga has it start and end in 50-70% of a page. Added the following page just to show he is definitely free. Man was so “casual” he almost broke out off screen lol.

I'm more incline to believe that Ichigo can develop god sensing skills especially since energy is equalized than to believe that the angels and gods (who essentially speak the will of the creators, editors and narrative of the verse) are wrong

I mean ….. Ichigo already has his own feats of sensing being who can’t be sensed unless you are one of them in the form of Transcendents. I was just tryna point out that this whole “can’t sense them without God Ki” argument doesn’t holdup since someone in DBS can do it and it’s also a hyper specific thing akin to “Ganondorf can only be killed by the Master Sword”. God Ki just has a layer of resistance to ESP in cross verse.

 

[Orange]

N

Never argued the others could though rereading the posts above, I feel like I might have misunderstood what you meant by outlier. Do you mean to say that Hit can do it and it is a valid feat but it simply doesn’t scale to anyone else? Cuz if so, I agree. My initial take when you called it an outlier was that the feat wasn’t valid.

Lmao yeah. I was just arguing that point independent of the thread since it was already established that Ichigo and Goku don’t get their handy dandy time warping training rooms.

Imma have to go relearn how to read sarcasm.

Anime is weirdly stretched out. Manga has it start and end in 50-70% of a page. Added the following page just to show he is definitely free. Man was so “casual” he almost broke out off screen lol.

I mean ….. Ichigo already has his own feats of sensing being who can’t be sensed unless you are one of them in the form of Transcendents. I was just tryna point out that this whole “can’t sense them without God Ki” argument doesn’t holdup since someone in DBS can do it and it’s also a hyper specific thing akin to “Ganondorf can only be killed by the Master Sword”. God Ki just has a layer of resistance to ESP in cross verse.

No no, the feat is valid but it doesn't disprove that only god ki users can sense god ki, since it would be an exception to the norm.
And yes for god ki , you need to have either god ki, god energy, or be a God.
Is ichigo a god, has god energy or god ki and has he sensed any god energy before?

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

Goku: A person who evolved from primates, can wield a supernatural energy and also has powers gained from extremely powerful beings that are seen as and called gods whom he eventually surpasses.

Looks pretty similar to me.

Evolved from primates

B…but Episode of Bardock

 

[Orange]

Technically they didn't evolve from primates, they are primates

 

[AnonymousBlank]

You’re ignoring the fact that I already brought up how Ichigo has feats of doing stuff that is comparable to sensing God Ki users but sure, I’ll play ball anyway by repeating what I said above.

• Transcendents = Gods (as in they are akin to DB gods). They cannot be sensed by anyone besides other Transcendents with the sole exception of Ichigo because he is built different like Hit and just does.
• Ichigo is a Transcendent
• Mimi = a god. Mimi is part of the Soul King, ergo Soul King is god.
• Soul King = God. Soul King = every/most races. Ichigo qualifies for being Soul King because he is every race which makes him the closest to the OG Soul King.
• Fullbring = fragment of the Soul King. Ichigo has a Fullbring and thus has the power of God.
• Piece of Yhwach’s soul = Lille’s Schrift = power of god. Old Man = a piece of Yhwach’s power. Needless to say, Ichigo has Old Man.
• Shinigami are death gods. Ichigo is a Shinigami

 

[AnonymousBlank]

B…but Episode of Bardock

Coulda sworn I said I dunno shit about DB somewhere above.

 

[Orange]

What-
Ichigo is literally a walking plot armor-
Anyway then he should be able to sense it if he has enough feats that says he can sense god energy

 

[Ss3micah]

Anime is weirdly stretched out. Manga has it start and end in 50-70% of a page. Added the following page just to show he is definitely free. Man was so “casual” he almost broke out off screen lol.

I blame Kubo

I mean ….. Ichigo already has his own feats of sensing being who can’t be sensed unless you are one of them in the form of Transcendents. I was just tryna point out that this whole “can’t sense them without God Ki” argument doesn’t holdup since someone in DBS can do it and it’s also a hyper specific thing akin to “Ganondorf can only be killed by the Master Sword”. God Ki just has a layer of resistance to ESP in cross verse.

Fine Let's just for all arguments sake say that they can both sense each other
Now let's get down to the battle

 

[Ss3micah]

You’re ignoring the fact that I already brought up how Ichigo has feats of doing stuff that is comparable to sensing God Ki users but sure, I’ll play ball anyway by repeating what I said above.

• Transcendents = Gods (as in they are akin to DB gods). They cannot be sensed by anyone besides other Transcendents with the sole exception of Ichigo because he is built different like Hit and just does.
• Ichigo is a Transcendent
• Mimi = a god. Mimi is part of the Soul King, ergo Soul King is god.
• Soul King = God. Soul King = every/most races. Ichigo qualifies for being Soul King because he is every race which makes him the closest to the OG Soul King.
• Fullbring = fragment of the Soul King. Ichigo has a Fullbring and thus has the power of God.
• Piece of Yhwach’s soul = Lille’s Schrift = power of god. Old Man = a piece of Yhwach’s power. Needless to say, Ichigo has Old Man.

Okay you've made your point

• Shinigami are death gods. Ichigo is a Shinigami

DON'T YOU DARE BRING JAPANESE FOKELORE INTO THIS

 

[Ss3micah]

What-
Ichigo is literally a walking plot armor-
Anyway then he should be able to sense it if he has enough feats that says he can sense god energy

Not really since more times than not he still cant win against goku or naruto and heavily debatably against Luffy

 

[Orange]

Not really since more times than not he still cant win against goku or naruto and heavily debatably against Luffy

He has every race in him, even cell didn't do that.
#BanIchigo

 

[Ss3micah]

He has every race in him, even cell didn't do that.
#BanIchigo

Hollows and Death Gods are highly susceptible to Holy Water and Excorcism

 

[Orange]

Hollows and Death Gods are highly susceptible to Holy Water and Excorcism

LETS BOIL THE DEVIL OUT OF THEM

 

[Shadowbokunohero]

the amount of wank on this thread.

Goku has been hurt by bullets
Naruto has been stabbed by Kunai
and Luffy can be drowned.

 

[Shadowbokunohero]

also there's Objective Proof that Ichigo cant even use his powers, you wanna know why

 

[Orange]

the amount of wank on this thread.

Goku has been hurt by bullets
Naruto has been stabbed by Kunai
and Luffy can be drowned.

Stop wanking, goku got hurt by a slap
Luffy can't even drink water
Naruto is doing himself with sexy harem no jutsu
And ichigo Is celebrating father's day

 

[Livinmeme]

wait how does luffy even drink water?

 

[Orange]

He doesn't, he would drown on himself remember?

 

[Ss3micah]

wait how does luffy even drink water?

by getting a cup
filling it with water
opening his mouth
and bottom's up

 

[Livinmeme]

.... you know what i was talking about

 

[AnonymousBlank]

Not really since more times than not he still cant win against goku or naruto and heavily debatably against Luffy

Nah, his plot armor is so thick that he also has Otsutsuki and Saiyan genes, and 11 Biju sealed inside him (don’t ask where the 11th one came from or how he can have 1-9 and the full 10 at the same time)

 

[Kidkinsey]

my ONLY guess would be the kaioken is a mortal technique thats why he was able to be sensed. I cant say its forgotten because the black arc came after and trunks couldn't sense vegeta once he went blue

@AnonymousBlank where people who were clearly not on his level able to sense ichigo during the war? Because I know people below yhwach were able to sense him

 

[FluffyCreatureZ]

So who's winning?

 

[AnonymousBlank]

Never serious Ichigo. Ichigo is only ever stated to be on the level of Mugetsu/Dangai when his reiatsu becomes visible so he spent the entire arc until he tag teams Pringles with Orihime mega nerfed. At that point there is never any mention of his strength or reiatsu with the only lines coming from Yhwach and Ichigo saying he can sense Chair Aizen’s KS reiatsu which implies he is Transcendent since Ichigo only had a feat for sensing Chrysalis Aizen and not any of his higher forms which he now transcends.

Actually, now that I think about it. No one else really says anything about Ichigo’s strength based on sensing his energy. The Femritters completely fail to sense him right behind them until he talks (he wasn’t even using Sonído but Shunpo and wasn’t trying to hide so they don’t really have an excuse), they only say he was a tougher fight than Hikone but that was after he slammed them around no diff, Candice didn’t even realise how strong his GJ was which is weird when you think about how hypersensitive Quincies are to Reishi and Reiatsu. Even the other Ritters don’t sense him and they only go to the 1v4 because of the explosions.

 

[Kidkinsey]

He was nerfed while fighting yhwach with orihime? Didn't he go all out (b4 his bankai was snapped)

SOMEBODY had to sense either aizen/ichigo/yhwach sense they arrived at the battlefield

 

[AnonymousBlank]

He was nerfed while fighting yhwach with orihime? Didn't he go all out (b4 his bankai was snapped)

No no, he was nerfed for everything before he and Hime fought Yhwach. And once he goes to fight Yhwach, only transcendents are involved with any statements. Rukia, Renji, Orihime, Ginjo and Tsukishima never comment on Ichigo’s power.

SOMEBODY had to sense either aizen/ichigo/yhwach sense they arrived at the battlefield

The closest we get is Aizen flexing his reiatsu to destroy the eye balls and shoot down the Palace but there it’s a giant pillar of extremely visible reiatsu. People sensed Yhwach before he went up to the palace but nothing after iirc.

 

[SirAlex09]

So who's winning?

So far it's mainly a debate whether Ichigo can sense Goku or not. Other than that most are either Pro Goku or Pro Ichigo in this debate