Chritin
He/Him- 577
- 373
I don't see how. No matter if the stars are stars are not, not needing to control them still should give him a lot more control over his gravity magic
-
This forum is strictly intended to be used by members of the VS Battles wiki. Please only register if you have an autoconfirmed account there, as otherwise your registration will be rejected. If you have already registered once, do not do so again, and contact Antvasima if you encounter any problems.
For instructions regarding the exact procedure to sign up to this forum, please click here. -
We need Patreon donations for this forum to have all of its running costs financially secured.
Community members who help us out will receive badges that give them several different benefits, including the removal of all advertisements in this forum, but donations from non-members are also extremely appreciated.
Please click here for further information, or here to directly visit our Patreon donations page. -
Please click here for information about a large petition to help children in need.
Elden Ring General Discussion
- Thread starter Chariot190
- Start date
- 9,163
- 13,744
Some people argue controlling the stars was just a permanent spell powered by his life and not a continuous effort from Radahn himself. I personnally don't care.
- 3,611
- 882
I really dunno how that would make a difference AP wise. The only difference would be it being a skill feat or not.
- 9,163
- 13,744
The difference would be that if it's an active effort on his part, then he's using part of his power to control the stars so he's not using his full strength. If the spell is permanent and simply tied to his life, then Radahn doesn't need to actively use his power to maintain it, it exists on its own and he's free to use his full power.
- 3,611
- 882
I mean thats dumb, hes either powering the spell or hes not. Him needing to actively control it would be irrelevant for AP. If the spell is powered by his life force consistently then it's AP regardless
- 9,163
- 13,744
I'm on that side to but some people may argue it's not the same
Chritin
He/Him- 577
- 373
Well if I end up adding that part in, I'll just take out the part about him not controlling the stars anymore. Him having the light of Miquella and Mohg's accursed blood is more than enough imo
- 9,163
- 13,744
By the way, how are we going to translate the boss's light abilities? I mean, what kind of abilities will he have on his profile? Light Manipulation but only that or more? Cause a lot of the abilities PCR shows are spells cast by Miquella
- 9,163
- 13,744
Two things I found on TV Tropes about the Elden Beast.
"Where does it sit in regards to the Outer Gods? Is may simply be the equivalent of one of their chosen servants, like the Lord of Frenzied Flame or Malenia, especially as it's described as a vassal for the Greater Will. However, there are arguments to be made that the Greater Will is an entity superior to the Outer Gods or, alternatively, a mostly passive, if intelligent in some way, force of creation that existence originated from, so commanding a being equal to that cosmic group wouldn't be unexpected. The fact that at least two powers gifted by Outer Gods are needed to burn down the Erdtree, which it's connected to, further implies the Beast compares to them in terms of power itself, raising the possibility that it may actually be of the same nature as them - as a matter of fact, being the embodiment of the Elden Ring is similar to the Outer Gods being the true natures of things like the Scarlet Rot, such as the reports of a god buried beneath the Lake of Rot."
"Brought Down to Badass: Twofold, or even threefold going by separate means that weakened it. By the time the Tarnished can enter the Elden Throne, the Erdtree is already set ablaze using the Flame in the Forge of the Giants, and ravaged with the Rune of Death. As the Beast is connected to the Erdtree, its power and influence are almost certainly affected. And because it is revealed to be the Elden Ring itself, Marika shattering it and her children claiming its shards long ago logically must have weakened the Beast to a certain degree, and it has a noticeable wound on its chest as a visual indication of this. The fact it's still powerful enough to serve as the final obstacle to the Tarnished at the height of their own strength despite these factors speak more than enough about its power as a god."
I kind of remember we already discussed this some time ago but yeah, the general implication you can piece together is, by the time the Tarnished fights it, the Beast has been weakened and is not at its prime.
"Where does it sit in regards to the Outer Gods? Is may simply be the equivalent of one of their chosen servants, like the Lord of Frenzied Flame or Malenia, especially as it's described as a vassal for the Greater Will. However, there are arguments to be made that the Greater Will is an entity superior to the Outer Gods or, alternatively, a mostly passive, if intelligent in some way, force of creation that existence originated from, so commanding a being equal to that cosmic group wouldn't be unexpected. The fact that at least two powers gifted by Outer Gods are needed to burn down the Erdtree, which it's connected to, further implies the Beast compares to them in terms of power itself, raising the possibility that it may actually be of the same nature as them - as a matter of fact, being the embodiment of the Elden Ring is similar to the Outer Gods being the true natures of things like the Scarlet Rot, such as the reports of a god buried beneath the Lake of Rot."
"Brought Down to Badass: Twofold, or even threefold going by separate means that weakened it. By the time the Tarnished can enter the Elden Throne, the Erdtree is already set ablaze using the Flame in the Forge of the Giants, and ravaged with the Rune of Death. As the Beast is connected to the Erdtree, its power and influence are almost certainly affected. And because it is revealed to be the Elden Ring itself, Marika shattering it and her children claiming its shards long ago logically must have weakened the Beast to a certain degree, and it has a noticeable wound on its chest as a visual indication of this. The fact it's still powerful enough to serve as the final obstacle to the Tarnished at the height of their own strength despite these factors speak more than enough about its power as a god."
I kind of remember we already discussed this some time ago but yeah, the general implication you can piece together is, by the time the Tarnished fights it, the Beast has been weakened and is not at its prime.
Chritin
He/Him- 577
- 373
I think it’ll be a Lorian and Lothric situation where PCR has Miquella as a part of them throughout their fight (basically making Miquella standard battle equipment). That isn’t to say Miquella shouldn’t get their own page, but it just makes it easier to say “Radahn gets all these hax with Miquella”.
I think it’s more likely that the Elden Beast is just a standard God like Marika and the fell god. Not only does it tell us that a god was defeated when we kill the Elden Beast, but Marika likely attained godhood through being a vessel of the Elden Ring, which we all know is the Elden Beast. Similarly, the Fire Giant holds the fell god in its body. The only god who’s different is Miquella, but considering how mired in confusion his story still kind of is that isn’t surprising.
However, that isn’t to say that he doesn’t play a role similar to the other outer gods. Both Ranni and Malenia have the chance to become gods through the outer gods, and the connotation of the “outer” gods is that they exist outside the order. So yeah, I think they could be similar entities, but are separated by their inclusion in the greater wills order (although I wouldn’t necessarily say the elden ring’s order)
Also, I think the big about the beast being out of its prime is fair, but with how mired the current 4-A stuff is, I think it’s best to leave it on the table. Maybe if it gets some higher scaling we could say it used to be higher it’s prime.
- 9,163
- 13,744
Sounds right. Btw, who's dealing with Miquella the Trap, Brainwasher of the Sus?
Well the Beast is certainly not as powerful as some of the Outer Gods (like the Formless Mother or the Frenzied Flame) but it still seems above most of the rest of the cast. I mean, Marika was clearly incredibly powerful at her prime and yet the Beast (who just got weakened if we go for the not its prime theory) basically crushed her. I'm also enclined to believe it's stronger than Metyr honestly. Anyway, we can maybe still make a note on the Beast's profile saying it's likely it was weakened but wether or not it would put it above 4-A for baseline is unknown so it doesn't have consequences on its rating.
- 9,163
- 13,744
Btw, in addition of Messmer (whose blog is definitely ready) and Rellana (same), I also have plans for the following characters, wanted to know if this is okay with everyone, especially for the last two:
- Midra (blog is more or less ready)
- Ymir
- Ancient Dragon Florissax
- Divine Bird Warrior Ornis
- The Frenzied Flame
- The Greater Will
- 3,611
- 882
I feel like we cant do FF/GW till we come to an acceptance on how the cosmology functions.
I unironically think you could argue Low 2-C, possibly 1-A GW/FF imo.
I have been meaning to write a blog on it for a while but keep getting busy.
Chritin
He/Him- 577
- 373
Why would it is inherently not as strong as some of the other outer gods? I mean the Frenzied Flame probably has a better visible feat in melting away the entire world, but I'd argue that the Elden Beast should be pretty relative to most of them.
When it comes to the cosmology, I'm of the belief that the Greater Will sent Metyr as its direct vassal, while the Elden Beast is one of many gods in the world. The Elden Beast as the current god exists as the Elden Ring to govern the world, while the other Outer Gods exist outside of the Elden Ring and try to gain their own order. When it comes to people like Marika, Ranni, and Miquella, they are basically surrogate gods who take the power of real gods (i.e., Marika taking the Elden Ring, the Fell God living on in the last Fire Giant, etc).
The only Outer God that goes against this is the Frenzied Flame, but its entire existence is built on the absence of order and the desire for everything to end.
- 20,541
- 17,454
The guidebook for Shadows of the Erdtree seems to imply Radahn's only limiting factor was the Scarlet Rot and not the spell. So the magic holding the stars wasn't weakening him in any real way.
- 9,163
- 13,744
Yeah, I know, I was just explaining what some people might say about this particular stuff, the whole "Radahn was not using his full power because meteors held back" has been around ever the release of the base game after all
Dust_Collector
They/Them- 7,745
- 8,750
I always took that as cope to try and push the Radahn >> Malenia, not even saying this as a funny agenda way like I did with my above comments those theories about being weakened due to holding back the stars always felt like trying to make him definitvely the strongest regardless of being stalemated by her.
- 20,541
- 17,454
Tbf the fight seemingly went on longer than people realize. A ghost outside the swamp mentions that he wanted to see Malenia fight in the bloom a second time and the Scarlet Butterflies are only generated from Malenia'a wings.
So from what I got the battle didn't end with Malenia blooming and then both getting knocked out. She bloomed and they still fought each other, which may be why Miquella was there since he may've been the one to put Malenia to sleep while a crippled Radahn was left in the eastern fringe.
So I think it went: Battle -> Radahn Favor -> Bloom -> Malenia with Rot begins to defeat him -> Miquella puts her to sleep and Radahn is left in Caelid since no one there is capable of killing him with the Rot everywhere.
Dust_Collector
They/Them- 7,745
- 8,750
Yeah that's pretty much how I feel it went, esspecially with that story trailer that showed him pretty easily destroying her prosthetic arm before she bloomed. Base to base Radahn was taking it then the rot just turns the tables.
- 9,163
- 13,744
Chritin
He/Him- 577
- 373
The more I think about Caelid, the more I wish we could actually get some scaling off of Malenia's Scarlet Aeonia. Iirc, the Aeonia does push apart a bunch of clouds at least, but it's so hard to see that it's honestly impossible to say. I'm not sure if it would be any better than the Radahn baseline meteor feat either, but still I think it would be worth it if we could do anything with it.
- 42,759
- 37,002
An Aeonia sounds like a scientific word for like an animal genitalia...
- 3,611
- 882
Begone
- 3,209
- 1,578
Anyone interested in this Elden Ring vs Lord of the Rings matchup?
vsbattles.com
Aragorn vs Morgott
Title isn't a typo, we're doing another JRR vs GRR matchup Aragorn, The King Returned vs Morgott, Last of All Kings Speed equalized Aragorn and Morgott are both in 7-A keys, Andúril is restricted to High 7-A Fight takes place in the Citadel of Minas Tirith, starting at 10 meters apart Who...
- 9,163
- 13,744
First one is better for a profile picture in my opinion, though the others can be put in a gallery
XSOULOFCINDERX
They/Them- 21,381
- 9,048
I agree.
Chritin
He/Him- 577
- 373
The more I edit this photo, the more I REALLY don't want to be lol. The Scadutree Avatar has so many tiny spines that it's making this a nightmare
- 9,163
- 13,744
The Mother probably having a sick sense of humor
- 80
- 28
Why would Mohg NOT scale above Ansbach?
Chritin
He/Him- 577
- 373
I'm only curious if people would agree, since that puts Mohg on par with literal lord level characters. Guess it makes sense though, since he was trying to become a consort himself at a point.
XSOULOFCINDERX
They/Them- 21,381
- 9,048
I mean we do fight him after Malenia.
- 4,703
- 1,634
Also speaking of Dark Souls, we forget to bringing up the multiplayer item used to invade other worlds.
Hell, here is a item description used to send messages to player’s other worlds.
A invasion item that also show a player bring allowed to invade another world
Hell, here is a item description used to send messages to player’s other worlds.
Loading…
darksouls.wiki.fextralife.com
A invasion item that also show a player bring allowed to invade another world
Loading…
darksouls.wiki.fextralife.com
Chritin
He/Him- 577
- 373
In Dark Souls, multiplayer items have a much a better defined place in the narrative compared to other souls games, but not as actual other worlds. I recommend watching Smoughtown's video on the flow of time in Dark Souls, but to summarize it quickly, in Dark Souls what we experience as phantoms are actually other people from the same timeline coming to our point in time due to the first flames. Fading. When the first flame began to fade, time began to stagnate along with every other natural force of the world, causing places and people from different events across time to "pool together" in a sense. This is what Solaire describes when he says the flow of time is convoluted, with heroes from different ages all coming together.
While these phantoms may be described as coming from other worlds, they are actually all from the same universe, but different points in time that are getting layered on top of each other.
- 4,703
- 1,634
Is there sufficient amount of evidence for this video that points this out?
Also this will involve Elden Ring given the circumstances behind the multiplayer as you still drop souls right when you died as the invader as it does have implications being in the same universe as well.
Chritin
He/Him- 577
- 373
Like I said I recommend looking at this video by Smoughtown with translation support from Lokey on what I'm talking about here.
This is also the reason why the Lord of Hollows version of the Ashen one is argued to be Low 2-C instead of 2-C iirc too.
- 9,163
- 13,744
Not necessarily. Ansbach goes to fight against PC Radahn but he probably gets quickly cut down so making Mohg superior to Ansbach doesn't mean Mohg would be on Lord level
