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Edelweiss vs Grimm-Grimm. Battle for 4th 7-B.
- Thread starter Firephoenixearl
- Start date
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- #3
Nope. It doesn't. NEP doesn't mean you lack fate.
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- #6
Idk, does he have passives?
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- #8
That requires sight, which isn't the case in SBA.
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Said Fear and Madness affects beings who are immune to the Passive Fear and Madness caused by other such beings (Critters) and killed said beings, but were too scared to attempt to fight Grimm=Grimm
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- #10
1. You sure that's not naturally induced? (Grimm is just much stronger than those guys so they said "i ain't ******* with that guy")
2. Again requires sight.
2. Again requires sight.
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- #12
He's not existent, he still has a fate. We discussed that.
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I'm sure as they had no idea what Grimm=Grimm was or how strong they were, they simply Fear them because of their Presence, and
Plus Grimm=Grimm both has Type 5 Immortality and Resists Death Manipulation.
It's clearly not just with sight.
Plus Grimm=Grimm both has Type 5 Immortality and Resists Death Manipulation.
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- #15
Yeah but presence doesn't mean it can be felt from anywhere. You'd need proof that it would hit people 4km away.
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Plus theirs this.
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- #17
Well, being non-existent doesn't mean you can't die. Not to mention you're completely under Edel's control if she manages to damage you (which causality will).
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- #18
That's less abstract existence and more non-corporeality. He doesn't embody dreams, he just is a dream.
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Immortality Type 5 and Death Manipulation resistance mean he won't die, plus as mentioned Edelweiss will be affected by his Passives when she enters his presence.
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- #21
Resistance to death manip isn't a factor, this is fate. But even assuming he won't die he'll still be under Edel's control. And why would she enter his range?
She can still place him under causality control.
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I'm also voting Grimm=Grimm as the opposition has not convinced me of any of their counter-arguments.
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- #23
This is just stupid when 1 argument was completely skipped over.
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- #24
Anyway to debunk some of the arguments now:
1. He is not alive etc etc. He is the antagonist no? I'd assume he got yeeted at some point in the series.
2. Even if she cannot kill him permanently, simply damaging him will put him under her control. Which is just GG.
1. He is not alive etc etc. He is the antagonist no? I'd assume he got yeeted at some point in the series.
2. Even if she cannot kill him permanently, simply damaging him will put him under her control. Which is just GG.
Jinsye
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This is textbook abstract existence. Dreams are very abstract things, and being one means you're an abstraction.
Not all AE is embodying a concept.
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The main character had powers that could defeat him, but Edel doesn't.
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- #28
1. Wdym prove how it happens? If he dies in the story he will have an image of death.
2. The opposite actually, it's based on him sensing her. So that desperado would take effect. Not to mention desperados deal with other desperados on a daily basis, fear ain't your best bet.
And going by the very definition of AE on its page:
Abstract Existence is the ability to embody an abstraction, such as a concept, thought, or information, and being immortal thanks to it.
You don't need to necessarily embody a concept, but you need to embody an abstraction.
2. The opposite actually, it's based on him sensing her. So that desperado would take effect. Not to mention desperados deal with other desperados on a daily basis, fear ain't your best bet.
She can just materialize that fate then. Grimm's fate of death which Gii caused.
I mean at that point it starts to make you wonder where Non-corporeal ends and abstract Existence begins. Wait, i could have swore the Seinshinkan ppl were called non corporeal at some point.
And going by the very definition of AE on its page:
Abstract Existence is the ability to embody an abstraction, such as a concept, thought, or information, and being immortal thanks to it.
You don't need to necessarily embody a concept, but you need to embody an abstraction.
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Jinsye
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Non-Corporeal doesn't end where AE begins. Abstract being are also non-corporeal, as AE is a more specific subset of it.
Embody by definition is to "be an expression of or give a tangible or visible form to (an idea, quality, or feeling)." according to the dictionary. If you are a dream then you're an embodiment of said dream which is an abstract. Grimm is a dream thus he embodies it pretty well.
Embody by definition is to "be an expression of or give a tangible or visible form to (an idea, quality, or feeling)." according to the dictionary. If you are a dream then you're an embodiment of said dream which is an abstract. Grimm is a dream thus he embodies it pretty well.
Jinsye
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Edel can not reach Homulilly so no. AoC at most.
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- #32
Yeah she may actually.
Not really, you are a dream, doesn't mean you embody "dreams". It's like saying "you are made of matter" is = "embodying matter".
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Jinsye
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You are not the expression/representation of matter even if you're made of it. But this is off-topic, since you're using semantics on what 'embody' means.
Abstract Existence is by definition of it's name, is to exist as an abstract. That's what Grimm=Grimm is, an abstract, you're over complicating AE with random semantics.
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- #35
Neither is a dude who is a dream. Being a dream doesn't mean you are the representation of dreams.
No i am just using brain cells and reading what being AE is on it's literal description on the ability page. Instead of slapping it on random shit.
I just LOVE this argument. This is always what ppl use when they're using something that comes outta freaking nowhere. Like "oh i know that word doesn't mean what i want it to mean so arguing for the right definition is semantics cus i wanna use the wrong definition". With these arguments it absolutely peaks.
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- #36
But without overcomplicating stuff, being that kind of existence (whether you call it AE or NC), doesn't mean you lack fate. Cus he can still act and affect reality.
Jinsye
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You do realize that you don't need to be the representation of all dreams everywhere to be the representation of a singular dream? Grimm=Grimm is the embodiment of the feelings/dreams of the Grand Prince because he is the personification of it and thus is an abstract representation of that, no other dreams need to be involved. A singular dream is still abstract.
So even if you're ignoring the basic definition of the term 'Abstract Existence' (to exist as an abstract) then he still fulfills the quality.
So even if you're ignoring the basic definition of the term 'Abstract Existence' (to exist as an abstract) then he still fulfills the quality.
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- #38
Being born of something wouldn't mean you represent it either, but i won't bother delving into those issues:
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her fate hax need to affect directly the abstraction itself,I mean,the physical body which act and affect reality is not the true form of abstract existence being,it is only an avatar of it
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