Earthbound revisions

[Psychomaster35]

Well, there are the calcs used on TSW.

Check only the 2, 4 and 6, others are not compatible with this wiki or are rejected.

5th is already used here.

About the rest, let's talk about the calcs currently used here besides the Oak one.

The Thunder and Storm feat, other than not being approved, doesn't respect VBW's rules of instability, other than being only hax, and doesn't damage anything.

This instead, for Giygas, is a mess. It's not accepted as well, and doesn't follow the rules, other than being based on a really inconsistent map. But worry not, we can still use the Low 7-B result, given it's implied to have created a storm.



If you're fine with these calcs being removed, and with the TSW ones that I listed being used, I'll make a blog for it on VBW with the 3 feats.

For freezing the Chomposaur, you should use Inverse Square Law comparing its entire length and weight to that of a brachiosaurus which is one of the dinosaurs it was based off of.

Every other calc is fine.

 

[StrymULTRA]

For freezing the Chomposaur, you should use Inverse Square Law comparing its entire length and weight to that of a brachiosaurus which is one of the dinosaurs it was based off of.

Every other calc is fine.

Once I'll get home I'll do it then.

If this gets fully accepted, I'd also like to delete the following profiles. See the verse page to know what I'm talking about

• Maria: Has no combat feats and her Magicant isn't even combat applicable. Useless.
• Buzz Buzz: Without his outlier 8-A feat, he's almost featless as well.
• Negative Man: Fodder enemy without a notable ability lol.

I'd also rename verse to "EarthBound" with the first B in caps, given that's how the game is called (with Mother as redirect) and also create profiles for the remaining bosses, aka Mother 1 Dragon and others sanctuary guardians.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Buzz Buzz's most notable feat is helping Ness against a Starman Jr.

 

[StrymULTRA]

Buzz Buzz's most notable feat is helping Ness against a Starman Jr.

Yeah but it has like two attacks lol. Other than dying from Porky's mom. I don't think it should stay, given that's barebones imo.

 

[Bobsican]

What do you mean? Porky's mom is clearly tier 8

 

[StrymULTRA]

Snip

Also, I'd like to rename some stuff, other than the verse page. You can find what I'm talking about here.

• Ana (Earthbound) > Ana (EarthBound Beginnings)
• Paula > Paula Jones
  • As that's her surname
• Poo -> Poo (EarthBound)
  • Name is too short
• Dark Dragon > Dark Dragon (Mother 3)
  • Its name is too anonymous alone, ngl
• Lloyd (Earthbound Beginnings) > Lloyd (EarthBound Beginnings)
• Starman (Earthbound) > Starman Units
  • Kinda for the same reason Monokuma Units are reffered as such here, despite not being called like this in the verse.
• Lucas (Earthbound) > Lucas (Mother 3)
• Truth of the Universe (Earthbound) > Truth of The Universe
  • Name is better and verse name is unnecessary.

 

[StrymULTRA]

For freezing the Chomposaur, you should use Inverse Square Law comparing its entire length and weight to that of a brachiosaurus which is one of the dinosaurs it was based off of.

Every other calc is fine.

8-C+ (now still 8-B) EarthBound incoming.

I guess that:

Early Game will be 9-A+ (0.14 Tons), Mid Game 8-C+ (1.31 Tons) and Late Game will just upscale from Mid Game.

Edit: 8-B Late Game, as got recalced to 14.17 Tons lol.

Extremely consistent too.

 

[Luckyfun]

Bump

 

[StrymULTRA]

Well, once @DarkDragonMedeus does what I've requested + unlocks all the verse, I'll be able to apply the changes, I should be able to between this afternoon and tomorrow.

 

[StrymULTRA]

Given that no one further argued, I'd say that everything got accepted. Can someone unlock all the profiles and apply all the changes I've purposed so I can apply this CRT?

I'll create the other profiles after this, main purpose of this CRT was about updating the already existing contents of the verse after all.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

I need to fix some pc issues, but I should be their after a restart hopefully

 

[StrymULTRA]

I need to fix some pc issues, but I should be their after a restart hopefully

No need to rush, we can use this thread to implement more stuff to add in the meantime, like finding feats for Early Mother 3, given I've found stuff for Early/Late game for the first two, but not 3. We can't use the 9-A+ for these as Mother 3 is in another universe, so we can't cross scale.

If you wish I'll work on a sandbox so I can show to you all how the profiles would look like after this CRT.

 

[Luckyfun]

Bump

 

[StrymULTRA]

I need to fix some pc issues, but I should be their after a restart hopefully

So, I started to make the sandboxes for the characters, I'll do all the verse + the 4 missing Sanctuary Guardians.

I noticed that Ninten current profile unironically links to Vileshadow's blog which is unused...

Anyway, thoughts on it for now?

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Just a heads up, I agree with most of the renaming including capitalizing the B and EarthBound, but I think Truth of the Universe should keep the title name. It can still be confused that there's a character named Truth in FMA. And also it sounds to close to somethings known as "Heart of the Universe". I know not entirely the same thing, but still think it's a good idea to keep the name of the verses.

Also, I will unlock the necessary profiles.

 

[StrymULTRA]

Just a heads up, I agree with most of the renaming including capitalizing the B and EarthBound, but I think Truth of the Universe should keep the title name. It can still be confused that there's a character named Truth in FMA. And also it sounds to close to somethings known as "Heart of the Universe". I know not entirely the same thing, but still think it's a good idea to keep the name of the verses.

Also, I will unlock the necessary profiles.

If that's the case then even better. I'll get home in some hours anyway.

 

[StrymULTRA]

Just a heads up, I agree with most of the renaming including capitalizing the B and EarthBound, but I think Truth of the Universe should keep the title name. It can still be confused that there's a character named Truth in FMA. And also it sounds to close to somethings known as "Heart of the Universe". I know not entirely the same thing, but still think it's a good idea to keep the name of the verses.

Also, I will unlock the necessary profiles.

I'd like you to rename the profiles first, otherwise I won't be able to make most of the changes.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Renamed, I will delete selected profiles when finished.

 

[deonment]

okay soo a quick question since I dont see the reasoning behind this from the scans and would rather know why they qualify now than having to create a crt or qna later, what proof is there for nep2 and concept type 2, because from what I'm seeing the concept type would be type 3, and getting erased on a type 3 level is something that wouldn't give nep2

 

[StrymULTRA]

okay soo a quick question since I dont see the reasoning behind this from the scans and would rather know why they qualify now than having to create a crt or qna later, what proof is there for nep2 and concept type 2, because from what I'm seeing the concept type would be type 3, and getting erased on a type 3 level is something that wouldn't give nep2

I didn't even finish lol.

 

[deonment]

ah, that makes sense then

 

[StrymULTRA]

ah, that makes sense then

Now is done, is on Giygas profile.

Anyway, done all the relevant profiles, tomorrow I'll work to the rest.

 

[deonment]

ah yeah that makes much more sense now, thanks

 

[TheGatememer]

Wait hold on, how is it possible for Giygas to have both AE Type 1, and NEP Type 2? And I don't think just embodying the void automatically means he doesn't exist at a conceptual level, unless there is a statement of said void being non-existent on a conceptual level. unless I missed something.

 

[Oleggator]

Better yet, why characters received MHS for a hit or miss (in other words PK Thunder) move and from what SoL comes from?
Previously it was at least backed up with link, even though was said in previous thread that it's better to not use mentioned previously link as proof for SoL.

 

[StrymULTRA]

I got to home just now, couldn't edit before.

Wait hold on, how is it possible for Giygas to have both AE Type 1, and NEP Type 2?

I mean, you can be such, nothing really stated you can't be both. Giygas embodies evil, but he really doesn't need it to exist.

And I don't think just embodying the void automatically means he doesn't exist at a conceptual level, unless there is a statement of said void being non-existent on a conceptual level. unless I missed something.

Uhm, given the void was the result of everything getting erased, including Ness, who is AE 1 from himself, the void should be non-existent on this level.

Better yet, why characters received MHS for a hit or miss (in other words PK Thunder) move

Because PK Thunder isn't faster than the other attacks for one.

Previously it was at least backed up with link, even though was said in previous thread that it's better to not use mentioned previously link as proof for SoL.

Mother 3 K9000, which is based on blinding torches.

 

[Oleggator]

Because PK Thunder isn't faster than the other attacks for one.

What specifies that?

Mother 3 K9000, which is based on blinding torches.

So basically a "dazzling light" statement, even though as far as I can see it was not accepted in previous thread and even then, calc gets those feats at like, rela+ at most.

 

[StrymULTRA]

Updated Lucas with the reasonings for SoL. K9000 is basically a beam which is based on blinding torches, judging on its effects, ergo it should qualify, given that in game also there's not an attack faster/slower than it.

 

[StrymULTRA]

What specifies that?

The fact that the cloud doesn't blitz everything despite it has only that attack.

So basically a "dazzling light" statement, even though as far as I can see it was not accepted in previous thread and even then, calc gets those feats at like, rela+ at most.

Yeah but the effect is that lol. It just happened to be like a bliding torch. Tho if we can use Rela+ for Mid Game, then Gucci.

 

[Oleggator]

The fact that the cloud doesn't blitz everything despite it has only that attack.

So basically the fact that Thunder Mite attacks by PK Thunder. Ok then, what makes imply that characters actually are dodging PK Thunder and it's not missing because PK Thunder is hit or miss move?

Yeah but the effect is that lol. It just happened to be like a bliding torch. Tho if we can use Rela+ for Mid Game, then Gucci.

Except the only feat which arguably acceptable is performed at the end of the Mother 3 not in the middle of Mother 3 (Even then it should be at least Rela+ not straight up SoL, we have "at least", "at most" and etc. for a reason). You can also call and discuss it with @Armorchompy for instance since previously it was discussed with him exactly about speed downgrades.

 

[StrymULTRA]

So basically the fact that Thunder Mite attacks by PK Thunder. Ok then, what makes imply that characters actually are dodging PK Thunder and it's not missing because PK Thunder is hit or miss move?

Because the other moves are potrayed as fast as it and have similar properties as it's PSI, so they logically scale to their attack speed.

Except the only feat which arguably acceptable is performed at the end of the Mother 3 not in the middle of Mother 3.

And that's why I purposed it for Late Game characters lmao. I meant the Rel+ for Mid Game of Mother 2 as it happens at that point, but I really don't think the Ufo laser qualifies. PK flash is not like PK Thunder, it either hits or FAILS, which is different. Plus it's also an omnidirectional light, meaning that you can't really dodge it anyway.

You can call and discuss it with @Armorchompy for instance since previously it was discussed with him exactly about speed downgrades.

Honestly the arguments were really bad and ignore our light standards, given K9000 respects two of the requirements and lacks contradictions.

 

[Oleggator]

Because the other moves are potrayed as fast as it and have similar properties as it's PSI, so they logically scale to their attack speed.

Continue, which "other moves", when "portrayed", more details.

And that's why I purposed it for Late Game characters lmao. I meant the Rel+ for Mid Game of Mother 2 as it happens at that point, but I really don't think the Ufo laser qualifies.

Then, again Rela+ for late game and, again even then at least Rela+ for late game if you somehow find a legit feat for exactly Mother 2 mid game, not straight up light speed.

Honestly the arguments were really bad and ignore our light standards, given K9000 respects two of the requirements and lacks contradictions.

Gshxhvjvhvuvshjskflsldlflflfl, why you ignored arguments if you saw them?


Like, again you can call him right now and discuss it. That's like if I was saying your arguments for SoL are bad but wasn't discussing it with you.

 

[StrymULTRA]

Continue, which "other moves", when "portrayed", more details.

I mean, stuff like Fire or Freeze is not potrayed at slower nor faster, but at the same speed in the game. There's literally no proof of them having different speeds when in the game they're the same about propertied in power for example. Inb4 "power doesn't equal to speed", because they have the same characteristics in the fight.

Then, again Rela+ for late game and, again even then at least Rela+ for late game if you somehow find a legit feat for exactly Mother 2 mid game, not straight up light speed.

Elaborate instead of just "I say so" please. Plus I already said why I'm not a fan of Rela+, but just upscaling from MHS+.

Like, again you can call him right now and discuss it. That's like if I was saying your arguments for SoL are bad but wasn't discussing it with you.

Not when 3 staff members already agree with SoL. Plus, it actually fits 2 requirements.

• Stated to be made of light
• Is based on blinding torches as it inflics uncontrollable crying.

It doesn't have contradictions either, so it is SoL from our standards.

 

[TheGatememer]

I got to home just now, couldn't edit before.

I mean, you can be such, nothing really stated you can't be both. Giygas embodies evil, but he really doesn't need it to exist.

NEP Type 2 is being non-existent on a conceptual level. You really can't embody a concept unless it's like the concept of non-existence or something similar, since, well that's what NEP Type 2 is: Not existing on a conceptual level, aka not having a concept.

Uhm, given the void was the result of everything getting erased, including Ness, who is AE 1 from himself, the void should be non-existent on this level.

Still find it a bit weird from the above, but I suppose that makes more sense.

 

[StrymULTRA]

NEP Type 2 is being non-existent on a conceptual level. You really can't embody a concept unless it's like the concept of non-existence or something similar, since, well that's what NEP Type 2 is: Not existing on a conceptual level, aka not having a concept.

UKG is both NEP 2 from herself and AE 1 from being the same as Madoka, who is her counterpart. Unicron was both too before its NEP 2 was axed as it didn't even embody that void iirc. But I think I made my point here.

 

[Oleggator]

Elaborate instead of just "I say so" please. Plus I already said why I'm not a fan of Rela+, but just upscaling from MHS+.

I mean, Rela+ comes from End of the game Mother 3. And Ness as well as others should be scalable to that only at the late/end game Mother 2 not mid game Mother 2. If you're trying to put Mid game Mother 2 characters at Rela+ then characters at late/end game will just upscale to an unknown extent not straight up SoL as now profiles are implying.

I mean, stuff like Fire or Freeze is not potrayed at slower nor faster, but at the same speed in the game. There's literally no proof of them having different speeds when in the game they're the same about propertied in power for example. Inb4 "power doesn't equal to speed", because they have the same characteristics in the fight.

Except, fire is fire, ice is ice and thunder is thunder, it's basic elementals and if you are comparing PK Thunder to real Thunder, compare PK fire to fire and PK freeze to ice. By same logic we can assume that PK Thunder is as slow as fire.

Not when 3 staff members already agree with SoL.

Alright then, we also have 2 staff members who previously disagreed on this thread with op which contains stuff which was added on profiles now including SoL.

Plus, it actually fits 2 requirements.

• Stated to be made of light
• Is based on blinding torches as it inflics uncontrollable crying.

It doesn't have contradictions either, so it is SoL from our standards.

Ok, then again it was calced as Rela+, it's not SoL either way.

 

[StrymULTRA]

I mean, Rela+ comes from End of the game Mother 3. And Ness as well as others should be scalable to that only at the late/end game Mother 2 not mid game Mother 2. If you're trying to put Mid game Mother 2 characters at Rela+ then characters at late/end game will just upscale to an unknown extent not straight up SoL as now profiles are implying.

Noticed and oh god it's even from Early Game, it should used only for Late game, before is an outlier for kinda obvious reasons lol.

Except, fire is fire, ice is ice and thunder is thunder, it's basic elementals and if you are comparing PK Thunder to real Thunder, compare PK fire to fire and PK freeze to ice. By same logic we can assume that PK Thunder is as slow as fire.

That's not gonna work bud, fire doesn't have a real speed to begin with and they're clearly not just "lol elemental attacks" as they're PSI. Also, Thunder is objectively fast as a irl one due to Thunder Mite, and all the PSI are shown to be the same as it in both attack speed and power. No reason to be so nitpicking when common sense tells this to us.

Alright then, we also have 2 staff members who previously disagreed on this thread with op which contains stuff which was added on profiles now including SoL.

With debunked arguments*. Also, the majority agreed regardless, so I dunno your point here.

Ok, then again it was calced as Rela+, it's not SoL either way.

I guess.

 

[Oleggator]

Noticed and oh god it's even from Early Game, it should used only for Late game, before is an outlier for kinda obvious reasons lol.

Then like Rela+ late game characters, but again not SoL.

That's not gonna work bud, fire doesn't have a real speed to begin with and they're clearly not just "lol elemental attacks" as they're PSI. Also, Thunder is objectively fast as a irl one due to Thunder Mite, and all the PSI are shown to be the same as it in both attack speed and power. No reason to be so nitpicking when common sense tells this to us.

Who is cloud with eyes. But put down this, ok, a person who uses PK Thunder against us, or in other words you're trying to say that "PK Thunder is Thunder because PK Thunder", so far argument seems like that.

With debunked arguments*. Also, the majority agreed regardless, so I dunno your point here.

It's strange if you're trying to put me at debunked arguments cause you didn't answered to them in this thread at all.

 

[StrymULTRA]

Who is cloud with eyes. But put down this, ok, a person who uses PK Thunder against us, or in other words you're trying to say that "PK Thunder is Thunder because PK Thunder", so far argument seems like that.

I mean, it's a thing animated from Giygas like the ropes were, sooooo. Nothing wrong with that, really.

It's strange if you're trying to put me at debunked arguments cause you didn't answered to them in this thread at all.

Well, we already agreed with Rel+ stuff, which I'll apply after I finish to update the profiles (not that they are much left). I just mean that the arguments used against MHS+ are kinda of bad and assume that the move is insanely faster than every other PSI attack, which in just false.

 

[Oleggator]

I mean, it's a thing animated from Giygas like the ropes were, sooooo. Nothing wrong with that, really.

Well, we already agreed with Rel+ stuff, which I'll apply after I finish to update the profiles (not that they are much left). I just mean that the arguments used against MHS+ are kinda of bad and assume that the move is insanely faster than every other PSI attack, which in just false.

At least like, mention in justification that PK moves should be comparable to PK Thunder instead of like now where is tried to be implied that characters are dodging PK Thunder:

Massively Hypersonic+ combat speed and reactions (Can react and fight against enemies comparable to PK Thunder, which should behave like a real lightning due of it being used naturally from setient clouds)

Bonus: Maybe also update travel speed because Skip Sandwich and Bicycle