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Earthbound revisions
- Thread starter Luckyfun
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those blogs are a bit outdated and the most updated ness/giygas profiles by quirky and vileshadows can be found on debatesjungle wiki if your wondering. I agree with low 1-c ness for his awakened/post magicant key along with mother 2 giygas sealed and unsealed but it got previously rejected on this thread here. I do not think the refutes against it were good but I wish you luck if you want to argue for it here.
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The Truth of the Universe is the embodiment of truth and knowledge. Ness becomes Nigh-Omniscient after absorbing his Magicant and gaining the power of the Sea of Eden which is described the Supreme intelligence and a place where he can touch the Truth of the Universe.
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Yes, but does this gives ability to shoot fire, thunder etc. ?
I mean, we even see post Magiciant Ness being highly AMPd and he still knows only his, well, original moves. Is there something more in support? Or... Pure High omniscience is enough for this case?
Not same game but for instance to Kumatora, to use PK Starstorm, she needed to be hitted by thunder on head.
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Bump. I have a question. In the game, there's only a few quotes that directly referenced The truth of the universe. The sea of eden is the only place where Ness can actually interact with it.
Absorbing the magicant would've also include the truth of the universe itself. Since it's in the epicenter of magicant.
Meaning if Ness absorbs the entire thing, all of sea of eden would also be absorbed.
I assume truth of the universe is sea of eden as a true form of it
Absorbing the magicant would've also include the truth of the universe itself. Since it's in the epicenter of magicant.
Meaning if Ness absorbs the entire thing, all of sea of eden would also be absorbed.
I assume truth of the universe is sea of eden as a true form of it
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Nigh-Omniscience is enough in this case. him not being able to use the other moves is purely game mechanics for 2 reasons. 1. It would be impossible to do on the game engine because its made that you can't have more than three PSI techniques on a single category (like offense and support). 2. from a game design perspective it would completely devalue the other characters since Ness is already broken enough and giving him EVERY PSI move in addition to his ridiculous power would be overkill.
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Uh huh, well from plot perspective it's still weird Ness having a move which was used by a character from another universe where he never appeared, and/or from a game where move was created after Earthbound (aka Kumatora's PK Ground and/or Mother 3). It's also strange considering that in same Mother 3 characters learned moves pretty non standard way, if you remember how Lucas learned his PK abilities as well as that lighting moments with both Kumatora and Lucas. Point 2 technically makes sense a bit, though at same time maybe there was another concept behind it? Like does Itoi meant Ness to exactly learn all those moves plot wise?
Sorry for so many question/doubts but just to fully make sure on legitimacy of stuff and well, at this moment makng this thread alive.
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irrelevant, truth of the universe literally exists across the cosmology and literally embodies all of knowledge and possibility, the same being the gave ness power. Mother 3 characters didn't become nigh omniscient so its irrelevant how they learned their moves compared to ness who gained supreme intelligence. Yes regarding Itoi, its literally regarded as the Ultimate intelligence in the game. Don't have to address smash for obvious reasons but that's the same game where multiple characters are portrayed as extremely different, outdated, and even out of character as characters like bowser's current design is Sakurai's confirmed head canon of him during the NES era. Idk how much more to explain it as its pretty blatant on its description of the sea of eden and how he can touch the truth of the universe there. the game mechanic points still apply as well.
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Ok, might as well ask this here.
What is the reasoning for using Mother 2 manga for game canon?
I read it and there are substantial differences in story, like Giygas not being mindless, Porky being more of a victim and Buzz Buzz surviving far longer in story as well much more. If the main creator Itoi worked on it, that doesn't seem good enough explanation, since DBS is split into anime & manga. Similarly to that, it feels like M2 manga could be justified as separate canon, unless there is other reason for it I'm unaware.
Now, if the ratings stay the same regardless of manga, that's fine, though I'd like to know if stats are ok with Mother 3 Dark Dragon alone being sufficient enough of scaling for it. I still think Mother 2 manga should be split.
What is the reasoning for using Mother 2 manga for game canon?
I read it and there are substantial differences in story, like Giygas not being mindless, Porky being more of a victim and Buzz Buzz surviving far longer in story as well much more. If the main creator Itoi worked on it, that doesn't seem good enough explanation, since DBS is split into anime & manga. Similarly to that, it feels like M2 manga could be justified as separate canon, unless there is other reason for it I'm unaware.
Now, if the ratings stay the same regardless of manga, that's fine, though I'd like to know if stats are ok with Mother 3 Dark Dragon alone being sufficient enough of scaling for it. I still think Mother 2 manga should be split.
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its explained on this crt on level 3 https://vsbattles.com/threads/major-earthbound-revisions-part-i-cosmology-and-stat-revisions.116628/
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Honestly, the explanation wasn't good at all. It felt like it was used to justify rating, nothing more. Being an interpretation of something is really stretching it to be really canon.
That thread is bit too long for me atm, but would removing it cause a domino effect that nukes the rating?
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^^^
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Also, the giygas fight, everybody was praying but couldn't defeat giygas. But the player praying is enough to defeat giygas,
Prayers from the people weren't able kill him at all but the player praying was able to kill giygas.
The summary is that each pray were able to deal damage to causes Giygas's defence to weakened but not destroy.
only the player's pray was enough to continues to deal massive damage to Giygas.
Finally killing him with several pray.
Prayers from the people weren't able kill him at all but the player praying was able to kill giygas.
The summary is that each pray were able to deal damage to causes Giygas's defence to weakened but not destroy.
only the player's pray was enough to continues to deal massive damage to Giygas.
Finally killing him with several pray.
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- #31
Pray actually does deal damage, it's just especially harmful to Giygas Because he is the embodiment of evil so praying does wonders on him.
Think of it as exorcism to demons.
Player's pray scale to this because he/she views the multiverse as fiction. Therefore deals much more damage than anyone else.
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Been busy for several weeks now. But i will still reply.
Ness's attack did no damage because Giygas's defense is way higher then anybody else to the point of nigh-invulnerability.
The prays were the only attack that everyone can use to deal damage to giygas.
The final few prayers were for the player.
The player pray scales to the real world which is 5d. Meaning the player's pray is the only one that landed the killing blow to Giygas in the first place. Giygas has 9999hp. Meaning Giygas scales to the player via surviving multiple 5d prayers.
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Giygas is unharmed by any and all weapons and attacks. The prayer deals damage to him because he is harmed by positive energy, not because the prayer is more potent an attack than anything Ness could throw at him.
Scaling the prayers to the person praying is kind of a bad idea because you'll end up with a scaling chain where Ness's mom is Low 1-C because her prayer also harmed Giygas. The prayer done by the player has no correlation to the power of the player them self, it is the positive energy of the players prayers that finally kill off Giygas. Giygas doesn't scale to the player because he survived a few of his prayers.
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this was refuted before, some quotes along with stuff supporting tier 1:
"the important part is that their prayers are what actually finished Giygas off, when even the combined prayers from everyone on Earth could only wound him. If it were not for the Player, the battle would have been decided the moment that Paula ran out of people to pray to. regular people praying doesn't debunk the Player's prayers having Low 1-C potency, Giygas is evil itself so of course he is going to be damaged by the positive energy of the prayers. The prayers are made from the concern and love that the other characters have for the chosen four, that goes against the very nature of Giygas. I don't see why the Player's prayers would be infinitely weaker than their normal abilities either, it doesn't matter if it's not a conventional attack, the Player is still using prayer as a medium to damage Giygas."
The Player preferring using prayers over actual attacks, would mean it's physical attacks would likely be weaker, meaning Giygas can still tank some hits. Ness still absorbed a portion of truth of the universe an accepted low 1-c being... which would be low 1-c. not to mention ness absorbed the power of the earth, the same place where the dark dragon channels its power too who is also accepted low 1-c. ness can still slightly harm giygas in the fight who is able to take multiple attacks from the player before being truly defeated
"The Sea of Eden is a place deep within Ness’s subconsciousness that’s filled with said Low 1-C source. However, in order to unlock his true power, he has to fight off and destroy Giygas’s influences that had blocked off said Low 1-C entity from interacting with Ness. Defeating it allows Ness to touch The Truth of the Universe, which basically allowed him to absorb “The Power of the Earth” and all of Magicant to his heart. Now, someone had brought up before was another source of power that another Low 1-C entity within the verse uses to perform feats at that level. What this did was give Ness a ridiculous amp (20:32) that drastically increased his stats to an astronomically high level. TLDR: Ness absorbed The Power of the Earth, which allowed him to absorb Truth and Magicant to himself. In the case for Giygas, he was able to survive 3 hits from a Low 1-C entity while in a weakened state. And Ness was only able to slightly harm him in the beginning. Of course, absorbing Truth doesn’t mean it has the fullest extent of its attack potency, it just means it’d have said attack potency to a much lower degree."
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The player can't harm Giygas with physical attacks because they player is a representation of the person playing the game, they cannot directly attack a being inside the game because they exist outside it, unless you punch the screen or something idk.
Ness only touches the Truth, he absorbed Magicent but not Truth (if it is stated he absorbed the Truth as well please provide scans), Magicent does not scale to the Truth of the Universe just because it resides there.
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I can only answer bottom half of your points, the rest is kinda speculation?
The sea of eden is truth of the universe itself is. Ness can directly touch it to gain massive power boost.
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Bruh it's the player, the fact that he can't directly affect the game is the default assumption.
Anyway I find myself in agreement with Seol
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