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Earthbound major revision

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I contacted ArbitraryNumbers and Numbersguy who were on the list. DarkAnine was contacted a while back iirc, but he's yet to respond to the thread.
 
DarkDragonMedeus said:
I contacted ArbitraryNumbers and Numbersguy who were on the list. DarkAnine was contacted a while back iirc, but he's yet to respond to the thread.
Click to expand...
Thanks a bunch!

Also, I'll change the title @Bobsican
 
@Medeus

Thank you for the help.

@All

I vaguely remember a quite extensive and comprehensive content revision thread for Earthbound that resulted in the current statistics, so it is very possible that this will not lead anywhere.
 
I think that it was more recent, but you can ask Dark649 and Darkanine to give input here.
 
So i was asked to give input onto this thread. While i'm not really an Admin, i guess i could

Powers & Abilities Additions

>I agree with just about everything proposed in Ness's section. Personally i think everything you claimed should be added as it's pretty cut and dry

Giygas Additions

>Abstract Existence for Giygas seems a bit debatable, but personally if there's enough to support it then i'm all for it. Tho i heard that Giygas being the embodiment of Evil may possibly be a translation error, but i never got the source that cites that so i dunno

>Everything else for Giygas i'm mostly agree with

Pokey Minch

>Agree with everything presented here

"The Truth of The Universe"

>I dunno what much to say about this. Alot points to this being an actual entity than opposed to a force or something. However i feel this is the same case with The Gentle Pull (I.E, it's unknown whether it's an actual character or what). Assuming that The Truth exists. Everything that has been proposed to it seems interesting

>I can argue that "The Truth" is also 2-B. Asit's shown that each individual has their own Magicants , which are established as universes, as you've presented
 
Thanks for the reply!

I feel it's safe to keep it at 2-C, possibly 2-B since the players guide mentions about a lot of people being able to visit Magicant, but Ness being the only one capable of gaining its powers. So ye Plus Maria's magicant is 7-A
 
I haven't played Earthbound in a few years, so take what I say how you will, but based on what's been said in the thread I agree with everything bar the fate/probability manipulation.
 
I agree with everything in the OP except for:

Giygas Abstract Existence: Fairly vague statement that needs more backing.

Passive Void Manipulation: could you provide scans as this doesn't quite seem passive.

Passive Mind Manip: Definitely Mind Manip but are we positive it's passive?

Self-Resurrection: More neutral than against but it seems more like game mechanics. But eh.

Time Stop: Looks more like game mechanics here too.
 
Possibly 2-B seems like wank tho... since we havent seen other universes.

Adding powers: I agree, but the time stop thing seems like a gameplay oversight tho

Giygas additions: Probably no, considering we never saw it again

Pokey Minch: Fully agree

The Truth of The Universe: Eh. I don't think so, that's an object... it can't fight
 
Oh hey. We have a lot of inputs. All varying to agreeing and disagreeing.

Dang, I never expected this. But I'll wait for a while to come up with another response (probably another wall of text from me) But thanks.

Also @Numbersguy There are many characters in this wiki that don't "fight". This one here is important to the story and how it rolls.
 
Numbersguy

Why is time stop an oversight but everything else in the game in combat is applicable and a-okay?

Edit: Apologies, I didn't see that you agreed. But still, I don't think it's far fetch'd
 
SansTheSkeleton101 said:
Is there any proof Maria's magicant is universal in size? The most we see from it is a lot of mountains in the background.
Click to expand...
Why would Ness's Magicant and Maria's Magicant vary. Saying that it isn't a universe because it only shows alot of mountains goes against the notion that Magicant itself is the same place, just thought up differently by other's mind. The best way i can describe this is how Universes function in Multiverse Theory
 
DaBigP said:
Thanks for the reply!
I feel it's safe to keep it at 2-C, possibly 2-B since the players guide mentions about a lot of people being able to visit Magicant, but Ness being the only one capable of gaining its powers. So ye Plus Maria's magicant is 7-A
Click to expand...
Fair enough. 2-C is fine as well
 
@Numbersguy If you agree with Fate Manipulation, then why not Truth of the Universe? Also if you are referring to abstract existence for Giygas, what I said up there is describing Type 2 Abstract. I made a mistake up there as I wasn't aware that there were types. Type 1 describes them as existing as an abstraction and that they lack a true physical form. But even so, that can be debatable. How is Time stop an oversight? Or some form of gameplay mechanics?

@SSBXeno573 How is it not Passive if it's by mere presence alone?


@Gyronutz Why do you disagree with Fate Manipulation if Truth of the universe is ok?
 
SuperBearNeo X said:
Why would Ness's Magicant and Maria's Magicant vary. Saying that it isn't a universe because it only shows alot of mountains goes against the notion that Magicant itself is the same place, just thought up differently by other's mind. The best way i can describe this is how Universes function in Multiverse Theory
Click to expand...
Because the magicant in Maria's world is outright only shown be around that size, Ness' magicant you can see things like other planets.
 
SansTheSkeleton101 said:
Because the magicant in Maria's world is outright only shown be around that size, Ness' magicant you can see things like other planets.
Click to expand...
We already have classified stuff that can just look as even below tier 5 as tier 2, so this can pass as a universe too.
 
GreyFang82 said:
Numbersguy
Why is time stop an oversight but everything else in the game in combat is applicable and a-okay?

Edit: Apologies, I didn't see that you agreed. But still, I don't think it's far fetch'd
Click to expand...
Because time-stop is omni-directional because everything stops... and the game says "You dodged it"... how do you dodge something that is omni-directional?

So, that is why I think it is a gameplay mechanic... it feels "off"
 
Numbersguy said:
GreyFang82 said:
Numbersguy
Why is time stop an oversight but everything else in the game in combat is applicable and a-okay?

Edit: Apologies, I didn't see that you agreed. But still, I don't think it's far fetch'd
Click to expand...
Because time-stop is omni-directional because everything stops... and the game says "You dodged it"... how do you dodge something that is omni-directional?
So, that is why I think it is a gameplay mechanic... it feels "off"
Click to expand...
There's several characters before that have dodged omni-directional attacks in fiction.
 
Oh yeah, I forgot that we still have a rule that basically says "If it´s below tier 5, it ain´t tier 2".

In which case, I guess it can´t straightly get tier 2.
 
Yeah my point was his is backed up to be a unierse in size as you can see stars, planets etc. Maria's magicant doesn't even show a sun if I recall correctly, only mountains and at best it looks like an island.
 
Antvasima said:
I think that it was more recent, but you can ask Dark649 and Darkanine to give input here.
Click to expand...
Have you done this?
 
Also, this thread is very messy. Can somebody summarise the conclusions so far?
 
Sorry about that, Ant.

I don't think I can go ahead and summarize the conclusion without more admin inputs.
 
Here are some of the less asked staff members that you can select from to ask to give input when there are no knowledgeable members available:

Promestein

SomebodyData

Reppuzan

Dragonmasterxyz

Celestial Pegasus

Monarch Laciel

Assaltwaffle

Saikou The Lewd King

Antoniofer

PaChi2

Ultima Reality

DarkDragonMedeus

AKM Sama

Dargoo Faust

MrKingOfNegativity

Wokistan
 
Wasn't it the Low 2-C Ness that blocked Giygas' attacks? Because that's already stort of listed on the page.

The examples you gave on Reality Warping are more along the lines of creation and even then I'm a bit sketchy on that.

I would like scans of your reasoning for Ness being protected by some higher entity. "Chosen Ones" is a very common trope and overcoming insurmountable odds is even more common. It's a bold claim to make that there is something outside enforcing these tropes within fate/probability itself, one that needs solid evidence.

Again, another very common trope in turn based RPGs that is extremely common in game mechanics. In something like Undertale such resurrection has to be repeatedly enforced in lore and I expect it here. There might be stuff implied but I don't really see enough here to justify it.

I don't think they're actually resisting timestop as the characters in the overworld are still frozen when that happens. I feel like it more has to do with game mechanics.

The Fourth Wall Breaking sounds off as well. It seems more like an in-joke or easter egg, or just a tutorial.

I will comment on Giygas and the Truth page later but I already don't agree with much there. I feel like too many leaps of faith are being taken here with abilities just from stuff that is lightly implied.
 
Yeah, thanks for responding. Indeed, you have made good points.

"Wasn't it the Low 2-C Ness that blocked Giygas' attacks? Because that's already stort of listed on the page."

Yes, but if Giygas gets an "At least" rating, then Ness should get a dura upgrade is what I was trying to say.

"The examples you gave on Reality Warping are more along the lines of creation and even then I'm a bit sketchy on that.'"

How is it not Reality Warping or let alone Creation if Ness created Magicant? Magicant is said to be an entire universe, something that's on RW page. The items and The Flying men, which represents Ness' Courage, is along the line of Creation, like you said.


"I would like scans of your reasoning for Ness being protected by some higher entity. "Chosen Ones" is a very common trope and overcoming insurmountable odds is even more common. It's a bold claim to make that there is something outside enforcing these tropes within fate/probability itself, one that needs solid evidence."

Yeah, I understand that "chosen one" or "destined ones" are common tropes within fiction. However, as mentioned above, it was shown to communicate with Ness two times within the Adventure, telling him where to go and reflecting upon the adventure so far. The second time telling him that Giygas was starting to fear him because of his growing power. Even in Mother 3, he was communicating with Lucas. And yet again, refer back to previous comments. The whole journey was already destined and fated, that Ness already won against Giygas in two timelines. It also makes it so impossible events help him to win the situation, such as when the player, an entity that never appeared during the entire journey, deus ex machina's the battle and makes the "destined" ones win. The players guide mentions in Ness's description that he has the "power to change cosmic event", even support this, since he was supposed to lose, but Fate gave him the victory. Since the Truth of the universe is said to be responsible of controlling destiny, it being the "Supreme intelligence", and being space and time itself, it stating that Ness will win despite the incredible odds should be enough to it having Fate Manipulation, and by consequence, all it's chosen ones, since they are destined by it to win. Again, has a similar description to Archie Sonic. Oh, and "The truth" has been mentioned by Knowledgeable members such as Tala Rama: "Your coming here, my waiting here... it was all predestined truth" And "The truth of the universe travels the cosmos like a grain and like a wave and speaks to the universes known as man." The most interesting part is "speaks to the universes known as ma" which that is probably referring to Magicant (it also backs up that Magicant is an entire universe that Ness creates). Which brings up my next point, Truth was also present within Ness' magicant, Ness would have to conquer his evil and violent side to get rid of Giygas influences. Doing so, allowed Ness to touch the Truth and obtained sufficient amount of power to confront Giygas. And grind some extra exp because 200,000 exp isn't enough ovo.

I guess Fourth wall breaking and awareness should go.

I'm still trying to wrap my head around Resistance to Time stop and maybe Self resurrection.
 
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