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Earthbound major revision

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Ness

Reality Warping- Not really. It's less of his creation and more of a universe that takes inspiration from his mind.

Space-Time Manip- Same as above.

Fate and probability manip- Yup.

Self-resurrection- I don't think so. While I do agree that the party members do indeed die, I'm pretty sure Ness coming back on his own is just game mechanics, which is supported by the fact that he goes back to his last save point.

Resistance to time-stop- Nah, just game mechanics.

Fourth-wall awareness and breaking- No, that's like saying Papyrus has fourth-wall awareness for interacting with the Annoying Dog.

Giygas

Abstract Existence- Nah, nothing backing that up.

Passive mind manip- Yeah.

Range- Nah. No proof that Earthbound has that many universes.

Passive void manip- Yup.

Illusion Creation- Yup.

I agree with everything about the items and Pokey.

Truth of the Universe-

I agree with everything except it's tier, mind manip and reality warping. Telepathically communicating with someone isn't mind manip, nor is there any proof it can use PSI. It's never demonstrated any form of reality warping either.
 
Alrighty, thanks for that response. (I keep forgetting to update the thread so we can have an almost near conclusion, which that also has to be done. I am just waiting for Dargoo' response.

Anyway

Ness:

Reality Warping: Except it's been said that Ness created Magicant Tho. Something that's also on Reality Warpings page.

Self resurrection: Yeah, it should probably go. Don't know what others think

Resistance to Time stop: Used to agree, but now I'm a little close to disagreeing.

Fourth wall stuff: Yeah, that's getting removed I guess.

(By the way, what do you think about Ness getting a dura upgrade if Giygas gets an "At least" rating?)


Giygas:

Abstract existence: Again, could be debated like I said above.

Range: It's already been discarded, but refer back to Truth and The real world within Earthbound. And the whole thing about chosen 4 winning in two timelines.


Truth of the universe:

I understand what you listed, but what's wrong with the tiering? (I agree that mind Manipulation should just be Telepahty).
 
Magicant is less of Ness' doing and more thanks the the Eight melodies. If Giygas gets an at least rating, I'd say Ness would also get an at least rating. Although it is worth noting that Giygas' AP >>> Ness' defense.

I read the stuff about multiple universe, but 2-C is >1000 universes. While it is true that Earthbound has a multiverse, nothing suggests it has that many.
 
Sptflcrw said:
Magicant is less of Ness' doing and more thanks the the Eight melodies. If Giygas gets an at least rating, I'd say Ness would also get an at least rating. Although it is worth noting that Giygas' AP >>> Ness' defense.

I read the stuff about multiple universe, but 2-C is >1000 universes. While it is true that Earthbound has a multiverse, nothing suggests it has that many.
Click to expand...
Actually, that's 2-B.
 
Ok, so for the time stop people keep saying "game mechanics" because this attack is interpreted by one person to be omni directional so dodging it would be GM.

It was never stated to be that, but even if it was, dodging "time stop" isn't what makes Ness resistant to it.

When using this move the music stops leaving the only sound effects playing being the attack missing or hitting the characters, This is the only move that ever does this so it there to show that the flow of time has stopped and the clock is then unleashing a flurry of attacks while time is stopped. Right after the flurry of blows the music plays to show time has resumed. Dodging the flurry of attacks should show Ness and the others can briefly move in stopped time. Besides instead of full resistance we can have it say "Minor Resistance to Time Stop" and put Ness can briefly move in stopped time to dodge attacks.
 
Also 2-C means affecting more than one universe.

So if I was to control two universes or affect it at the same time, then that makes me 2-C. Low 2-C means affecting one universe (with at least being hints to being able to affect more than one or able to affect another one after another, but don't quote me on that.)

yay, Grey saved the day!
 
Alright, I'm gonna update the thread based on what Grey said.

Don't know if I should remove the ones that I mentioned considering others agreed to the abilities.

We really need a verdict, these keep flying left and right with varying inputs. Like that's fine, but now it's becoming messy like what Ant said ovo.
 
The Wright Way said:
Sptflcrw said:
Magicant is less of Ness' doing and more thanks the the Eight melodies. If Giygas gets an at least rating, I'd say Ness would also get an at least rating. Although it is worth noting that Giygas' AP >>> Ness' defense.

I read the stuff about multiple universe, but 2-C is >1000 universes. While it is true that Earthbound has a multiverse, nothing suggests it has that many.
Click to expand...
Actually, that's 2-B.
Click to expand...
You're right, my bad.
 
GreyFang82 said:
Ok, so for the time stop people keep saying "game mechanics" because this attack is interpreted by one person to be omni directional so dodging it would be GM.
It was never stated to be that, but even if it was, dodging "time stop" isn't what makes Ness resistant to it.

When using this move the music stops leaving the only sound effects playing being the attack missing or hitting the characters, This is the only move that ever does this so it there to show that the flow of time has stopped and the clock is then unleashing a flurry of attacks while time is stopped. Right after the flurry of blows the music plays to show time has resumed. Dodging the flurry of attacks should show Ness and the others can briefly move in stopped time. Besides instead of full resistance we can have it say "Minor Resistance to Time Stop" and put Ness can briefly move in stopped time to dodge attacks.
Click to expand...
There's no evidence suggesting that.
 
DaBigP said:
Also 2-C means affecting more than one universe.
So if I was to control two universes or affect it at the same time, then that makes me 2-C. Low 2-C means affecting one universe (with at least being hints to being able to affect more than one or able to affect another one after another, but don't quote me on that.)

yay, Grey saved the day! </div>
Click to expand...
Yeah, but there isn't any proof that the Truth of the Universe actually effects multiple universes at once.
 
Okay, so that at least proves that truth exists. I don't see any flaws currently (and I'm starting to wonder if Anakin needs this applied to him too, as I'm seeing a lot of similarities between the relationship between Ness and Truth and Anakin and The Force) I'm just sad that Ness has become another Smurf. He was interesting before. Now he's just another "higher dimensional hax so fac u" character. I kind of hope someone debunks this eventually, I don't want see Ness get sidelined like that.
 
I-

I really don't know how to respond to that other than saying sorry..

However, you are not alone, I had one of those thoughts, however (with minor regrets, but still did so because Truth is an interesting character and because I like the references and parodies that Itoi makes with the characterss and symbolisms like Truth) Like I don't want stuff like this to ruin "things" at all, not my intentions at all...

As for @Sprflcrw, to answer your question:


The truth is described as being a "grain and wave" that travels through the cosmos. Stated to communicate with people inside their Magicants, which are described as "Universes" in the original text of the game. Just touching it, Ness was capable of acquiring his full potential. Its present between all timelines in Earthbound, of which are at least two in where Ness success. It also selects chosen ones during MOTHER 3, which is alluded to take place in a different timeline.) It is the one responsible for Mother 2 and 3 events as a whole.
 
Getting sad because a character became a smurf tickles me in the wrong way. Saying Ness was "interesting before" just sits kinda of wrong with me, since i don't see how he becoming a smurf makes him any less interesting as a character now, expecialy when said smurfery is barely present in the games.

Sorry, ignore me and go on.
 
It's his opinion, and I respect it.

Within Magicant was pretty dark, especially when The Flying men, a being that represents Ness' courage, dies... It's tombstone is just depressing as it implies the more the Flying men dies, the more courage Ness loses; and the more Giygas influences grows...But that's me. Ness went through "stuff". Since that's what the game is going for.
 
Well, all of Ness's wins are about to be stomps. Except Pennywise since he's gonna have High 1-B madness hax for if Ness ever tries to read his mind. Might have to do a rematch there.

Hopefully we can get some good matches out of Truth at least.
 
The Wright Way said:
Well, all of Ness's wins are about to be stomps. Except Pennywise since he's gonna have High 1-B madness hax for if Ness ever tries to read his mind. Might have to do a rematch there.
Hopefully we can get some good matches out of Truth at least.
Click to expand...
Um... no? This "Truth" is only for his post-magicant self isn't it? So all his 7-C matches are still valid
 
Alright, derailing can go to my wall if people want to discuss Earthbound related stuff (lol nobody).

Penny vs Ness is an interesting rematch that I'm willing to participate in.
 
Um... no? This "Truth" is only for his post-magicant self isn't it? So all his 7-C matches are still valid

Nope. Truth has been guiding Ness sense the beginning of the game.
 
IM SORRY GREY, DON'T HURT ME PLEASE! AHHHH!

I shall await Dargoos response...

Also forgot to respond to Reality Warping:

Yes, the eight melodies were needed, but they were to record deep feelings that connects to Ness' childhood, to learn more about himself.. That was what Magicant was. Something he still created, but needed the eight melodies to access "Your world".

btw, Merry Christmas to all!
 
So what are the conclusions here?
 
I'm not even sure if one was reached, the last post Dargoo wrote makes sense to me, but then there's some TLTR arguments back and forth after that.
 
Yeah, again I'm sorry for the messy stuff in here. This is my first CRT after all, but that's no excuse.

We just need to hear what Dargoo has to say. Like what Dark said, there are varying opinions with some now agreeing and some disagreeing. Though Wright agreed with the new character, and others as well.
 
I'll give a response in a bit. I'm not too available toda, so it might come a bit later.
 
DaBigP said:
The truth is described as being a "grain and wave" that travels through the cosmos. Stated to communicate with people inside their Magicants, which are described as "Universes" in the original text of the game. Just touching it, Ness was capable of acquiring his full potential. Its present between all timelines in Earthbound, of which are at least two in where Ness success. It also selects chosen ones during MOTHER 3, which is alluded to take place in a different timeline.) It is the one responsible for Mother 2 and 3 events as a whole.
Click to expand...
I know, but (might be wrong on this, I haven't replayed Earthbound or Mother 3 for about a year and a half) how do we know that it's the same being? The way I saw it was that the Truth of the Universe literally WAS the universe. So I assumed that there would be a Truth of the Universe for each universe, considering it IS the universe. Might be wrong on that, but is there anything that implies or hints that there is only one Truth of the Universe and it effects all timelines at the same time?
 
DaBigP said:
Yes, the eight melodies were needed, but they were to record deep feelings that connects to Ness' childhood, to learn more about himself.. That was what Magicant was. Something he still created, but needed the eight melodies to access "Your world".
Click to expand...
Yeah, but I don't think creating Magicant is reality warping. Maybe pocket reality creation or something?
 
@Sptflcrw

You don't have to quote long posts. Do like I did here instead.
 
Anyway, what should we do here?
 
@Sptflcrw

The truth, as said above, is responsible for the events of the entire game. Like when I said Ness won in two timelines since it was all fated; Truth controlling a "universal system". We already got hints of it being omnipresent too. Also Magicant being a pocket reality is probably a no? I'm not too familiar with this ability and how it's different from Reality Warping.

@Ant

I am not sure, we are all just waiting on Dargoo's response. (Which take your time, no rush.)
 
DaBigP said:
Reality Warping: Except it's been said that Ness created Magicant Tho. Something that's also on Reality Warpings page.
Click to expand...
Creation is a subpower of Reality Warping, not the other way around.

You agreed with my other points so I don't feel like I need to address them.

Giygas:

Mind Manip: Scans. Specifically a quote would be nice. It's really a matter of linguistics if it was through the nature of his being or if is an ability. It could even be a type of Madness Manip similar to that seen in everything Lovecraft.

Void Manip: Why are you calling it 'passive' if it's stated that he 'creates' the void? I feel like the word is just being slapped on in the wrong places.

Illusion Creation: We don't have enough information on Evil Mani Mani to assume Giygas made it and is capable of creating the same illusions; we just know it was a tool used by Giygas to spread his influence. Even then he doesn't wield Mani Mani into combat.

This is a tall order but I really need links on everything on the God-Tier. From what I've seen it's just loosely implied. The same goes for the rest of the stuff you are suggesting; you're making a lot of claims that have nothing tangible attached to them. Maybe you're correct, but you can't expect people to take everything you take at face value, especially people like myself who don't know anything about the verse.
 
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