Duel of the Deuteragonists Vol. 2: Moss vs Sauce

[ReaperAndBlues]

if theyre different then theres no equalizing and Sauce GJ GGs

Not if Haki overpowers it

 

[Godernet]

also its 10-7 so grace starts for Sauce

as far as your arguments on Haki's nullification of DFs, I'm making a CRT on it to formally address it if you wanna save arguments for that

 

[MonkeyOfLife]

and you commented this because?

no one was talking about the fruits themselves

So then why you talking about chakra and df’s…

Haki being "layered" doesnt mean it gains the ability the negate layered hax, it meants it can negate weaker forms of haki

Doflamingo’s haki could negate luffy’s blunt force resistance, luffy’s haki combined with his abilities could negate doffy’s haki negating his resistance

Too bad layers are accepted and are on the profiles

 

[Godernet]

Not if Haki overpowers it

Haki's not overpowering layered hax

the point of layered hax is that you can't overpower them if you're not on the same tiering

and layered haki doesn't mean layered "every DF ability in existence"

 

[ReaperAndBlues]

Haki's not overpowering layered hax

the point of layered hax is that you can't overpower them if you're not on the same tiering

and layered haki doesn't mean layered "every DF ability in existence"

Haki IS layered hax. And layered powernull.

 

[Godernet]

So then why you talking about chakra and df’s…

when i say DFs im talking about the abilities, not the fruits, i thought that was obv

Too bad layers are accepted and are on the profiles

im not touching the layers, that parts irrelevant cause layered haki doesnt mean layered hax resistance, it just means layered haki

 

[MonkeyOfLife]

also its 10-7 so grace starts for Sauce

as far as your arguments on Haki's nullification of DFs, I'm making a CRT on it to formally address it if you wanna save arguments for that

Then the 10-7 vote are wrong… since currently haki doesn’t only resist against df’s

 

[Quibster]

Can someone provide an update on wincons or has nothing changed at all? Appears like this is reaching a close.

 

[Godernet]

Haki IS layered hax. And layered powernull.

layered DF powernull(which honestly isn't even right in its own regard.)

 

[MonkeyOfLife]

m not touching the layers, that parts irrelevant cause layered haki doesnt mean layered hax resistance, it just means layered haki

They combine haki with their abilities wtf you on about?

Haki is what makes the abilities layered

 

[ReaperAndBlues]

Can someone provide an update on wincons or has nothing changed at all? Appears like this is reaching a close.

Sasuke:

• Better Versatility
• Better stamina against KoH
• Better base AP
• Better overall range with more techniques

Zoro:

• More skilled
• Better precog
• Better speed and reaction amps, some of which are blitzes
• Dura neg
• Higher AP via Hao infusion and has one shot capabilities with KoH
• Higher LS

 

[Godernet]

They combine haki with their abilities wtf you on about?

Haki is what makes the abilities layered

stronger haki negates the weaker haki of others which allows powers to work.

if your haki is stronger then your opponents your ability works and you can make attempts at resisting theirs.

Haki doesn't make someone's mind manip or soul manip layered.

honestly power level based layering in general is flawed

 

[Godernet]

what you're arguing for is not on the profiles so it doesn't matter for this thread but if you all wanna continue your points I'm still making the thread like I said so y'all can make that case there.

 

[LordGinSama]

Zoro FRA.

 

[MonkeyOfLife]

stronger haki negates the weaker haki of others which allows powers to work.

if your haki is stronger then your opponents your ability works and you can make attempts at resisting theirs.

Haki doesn't make someone's mind manip or soul manip layered.

honestly power level based layering in general is flawed

Haki makes their abilities stronger and negate other haki… stop talking if you don’t know what your talking about

 

[Godernet]

Haki makes their abilities stronger and negate other haki… stop talking if you don’t know what your talking about

"stronger" isnt layered

Haki negating other haki to allow abilties to work isn't layered resistance to all hax.

 

[MonkeyOfLife]

"stronger" isnt layered

It is. Read the layers thread evaluation.

 

[PatatesR]

"stronger" isnt layered

I'm planning to make layered chakra, what do you say? (!)

 

[Godernet]

It is. Read the layers thread evaluation.

'''Layering''' is the ability to break through resistances to one's ability/hax. Successfully using an ability against a resistant character means that the ability is "layered." Further, resisting a layered ability is an indication of layered resistance, so on and so forth. An ability becoming stronger does not automatically mean it is layered unless it is shown to overcome a resistance. Crucially this is not the same as resistance negation, against which layering is irrelevant.

Haki breaking through other Haki to make abilities effective isn't layered resistance to all DF Hax universally.

Not to mention like I said, the page only has Haki affecting DFs, temperature manip isn't conventional hax so it wouldnt be treated the same.

 

[Shadowbokunohero]

and yall wonder why people find the OP vs Naruto threads tiring.

 

[MonkeyOfLife]

'''Layering''' is the ability to break through resistances to one's ability/hax. Successfully using an ability against a resistant character means that the ability is "layered." Further, resisting a layered ability is an indication of layered resistance, so on and so forth. An ability becoming stronger does not automatically mean it is layered unless it is shown to overcome a resistance. Crucially this is not the same as resistance negation, against which layering is irrelevant.

Haki breaking through other Haki to make abilities effective isn't layered resistance to all DF Hax universally.

Not to mention like I said, the page only has Haki affecting DFs

It doesn’t, stop blatantly lying… ignoring haki resistance to sanji’s heat to support your argument ain’t it

It’s accepted as layer resistance, you saying otherwise doesn’t matter

 

[ReaperAndBlues]

and yall wonder why people find the OP vs Naruto threads tiring.

I honestly thought this would go like the Luffy vs Naruto thread. Guess I was wrong.

 

[Godernet]

It doesn’t, stop blatantly lying

you keep saying that yet I've posted proof via standards and the page.

It’s accepted as layer resistance

for DFs

 

[Godernet]

I honestly thought this would go like the Luffy vs Naruto thread. Guess I was wrong.

whats funnier about all the back and forth is that this Sauce is about to be upgraded which might make this match get deleted no matter who wins later

 

[MonkeyOfLife]

for DFs

For abilities

you keep saying that yet I've posted proof via standards and the page.

You ain’t post no proof… all you did was show how layering works… which got accepted on the thread

 

[Quibster]

I have one last thing to ask; is Haki as limited as Chakra in terms of reserves? Or is it more like an at-will enhancement. I know Sasuke has an exorbitant amount of Chakra to spend, but at surface level running out of Chakra looks like it would be a clear detriment to him-- if the fight is prolonged.

 

[Godernet]

For abilities

stop being a semanitics goon

whether or not I say DFs or DF abilities doesn't change anything.

You ain’t post no proof… all you did was show how layering works…

all I did was post the description of hax layering that contradicted your "stronger abilities = layered abilities" comment

 

[MonkeyOfLife]

I have one last thing to ask; is Haki as limited as Chakra in terms of reserves? Or is it more like an at-will enhancement. I know Sasuke has an exorbitant amount of Chakra to spend, but at surface level running out of Chakra looks like it would be a clear detriment to him-- if it even reaches that point.

Haki can be overused but it regains very fast

The only one I have seen have ran out of haki fully is Luffy with gear 4 since he’s forcefully overusing haki other people are able to fight for 10 days with using haki (like the admirals we’re doing)

 

[Mndks]

I have one last thing to ask; is Haki as limited as Chakra in terms of reserves? Or is it more like an at-will enhancement. I know Sasuke has an exorbitant amount of Chakra to spend, but at surface level running out of Chakra looks like it would be a clear detriment to him-- if the fight is prolonged.

as far as I know, only the observation haki expire.

but there is a situation where you can't use haki for a certain period of time, as in gear 4.

 

[ReaperAndBlues]

I have one last thing to ask; is Haki as limited as Chakra in terms of reserves? Or is it more like an at-will enhancement. I know Sasuke has an exorbitant amount of Chakra to spend, but at surface level running out of Chakra looks like it would be a clear detriment to him-- if the fight is prolonged.

Haki can kill a user when overused. But Zoro has a very, VERY, high tolerance and endurance when it comes to Haki. Plus, Haki can be recovered quite quickly, and Kenbun barely uses any if not none, as long as you have the mindset to use it.

 

[MonkeyOfLife]

stop being a semanitics goon

whether or not I say DFs or DF abilities doesn't change anything.

It does change because the abilities from df’s are the same as anything else, they not magic based

all I did was post the description of hax layering that contradicted your "stronger abilities = layered abilities" comment

It does not… it’s accepted on the layer thread that Stronger = layers for haki

An ability becoming stronger does not automatically mean it is layered unless it is shown to overcome a resistance.

It is shown and accepted.

 

[Godernet]

I have one last thing to ask; is Haki as limited as Chakra in terms of reserves? Or is it more like an at-will enhancement. I know Sasuke has an exorbitant amount of Chakra to spend, but at surface level running out of Chakra looks like it would be a clear detriment to him-- if the fight is prolonged.

they can both use their ap for a long time but they both have caveats.

En-O Zoro depletes his Haki faster, albeit a fresh Zoro would probably last longer than one running on nothing but the mink-drug.

Sasuke can fight for more than 12 hours while low on chakra, but if he's forced to dimension hop his chakra gets cooked after a few uses (though i dont think he'll be using it in this fight."

 

[Mndks]

other people are able to fight for 10 days with using haki (like the admirals we’re doing)

I agree, but I think it would be a bit ridiculous to use haki for 10 days continuously, I think they may have fought only with their fruits for a certain period of time.

 

[MonkeyOfLife]

I agree, but I think it would be a bit ridiculous to use haki for 10 days continuously, I think they may have fought only with their fruits for a certain period of time.

If they only fought with their df, they they wouldn’t be able to damage each other

 

[ReaperAndBlues]

I agree, but I think it would be a bit ridiculous to use haki for 10 days continuously, I think they may have fought only with their fruits for a certain period of time.

It wouldn't be a ridiculous claim considering Roger fought WB for 3 days nonstop as a Haki-only user. And as Monkey said, they wouldn't be able to touch each other due to the Logia intangibility

 

[Mndks]

If they only fought with their df, they they wouldn’t be able to damage each other

I completely forgot that they are logia, my mistake

 

[Godernet]

It does change because the abilities from df’s are the same as anything else, they not magic based

no one said they were magic-based.

It does not… it’s accepted on the layer thread that Stronger = layers for haki

An ability becoming stronger does not automatically mean it is layered unless it is shown to overcome a resistance.

It is shown and accepted.

it overcame weaker Haki which allowed for ones DF ability to work, hence layered Haki

That's not layered resistance hax to mind manip

 

[Mndks]

It wouldn't be a ridiculous claim considering Roger fought WB for 3 days nonstop as a Haki-only user. And as Monkey said, they wouldn't be able to touch each other due to the Logia intangibility

Yeah, that's true too

 

[MonkeyOfLife]

it overcame weaker Haki which allowed for ones DF ability to work, hence layered Haki

That's not layered resistance hax to mind manip

It is… since haki’s resistance will be layered

 

[ReaperAndBlues]

no one said they were magic-based.

it overcame weaker Haki which allowed for ones DF ability to work, hence layered Haki

That's not layered resistance hax to mind manip

It is layered powernull that can negate GJ, so it will null it.