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Dropping the Riordanverse Tier by smiting it with Zeus' Lightning Bolt
- Thread starter Cryo123
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Out of curiousity, what rules does it break?
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It doesn’t necessarily break any rules, it just doesn’t meet enough requirements. All we know is that it is called light and that’s it. If it had feats of reflecting off mirrors/shiny metal, “bending” when it went into another medium etc then it would be fine. As is, not good enough.
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It also only travels in a straight line. I mean I've heard other beams meet 1 requirement and still got accepted. Maybe a rumor?
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Straight lines is at best a supporting feat since plenty of stuff move straight. Sadly useless if the laser/light is only called that.
Can’t recall a situation where a light feat only met one requirement and got accepted. It’s possible that said feat was stated to be LS as that’s the only thing I can think of that would validate LS based on one thing on the site.
Can’t recall a situation where a light feat only met one requirement and got accepted. It’s possible that said feat was stated to be LS as that’s the only thing I can think of that would validate LS based on one thing on the site.
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Those beams need to be better scrutinized then.
Anyway yeah, agree with Elizhaa in that we don't have enough info on the beams to rate them as light.
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- #527
Just a question, Athena has a staff which shoots a laser out of it by focusing a fraction of her power. Would that add credence to Poseidon shooting actual lasers?
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nope
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Sorry, messages didn't update, anyway this does not qualify as light speed
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I would say no as Hades does the same and his beams are described as black "energy".
This could mean it either varies between gods (and Hades is a lot closer to Poseidon than Athena in terms of power) or if Percy's simply didn't know what the beams were and were describing them based on their visual appearance.
Could you actually post the Athena feat so it can be evaluated?
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- #531
It's on her profile, and it specifically says Ultraviolet rays Here's her page
Unless that Ultraviolet rays staff thing sets a precedent for Poseidon's staff attacks, it seems the laser is invalid
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I think the ultraviolet rays were from the Athena Parthenos in the Hidden Oracle.
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- #533
Yeah
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Found the quote.
While this does insinuate that Athena herself may be capable of shooting ultra-violet rays, we still do not have any evidence to suggest that a god had directly reacted to said rays.
Additionally, it had a different effect to Poseidon's beams. Instead of transmuting or liquifying its target it simply pushed a 100 ft tall metal monstrosity back.
If it is assumed that Poseidon's transmuting beam and erasure beam have different properties and that one is light and one is energy (even though they are not mutually exclusive concepts) the same should apply if we are to attribute the properties of the Athena Parthenos statue's ultraviolet rays to Poseidon's glowing blue beams.
This is Apollo make the statement so he should know what the beam is actually is, however, since he required godly vision to see the beams and directly stated that Demigods shouldn't be able to see it they aren't the same glowing blue beams that Poseidon fired as Percy could see them from across a battlefield.
While this does insinuate that Athena herself may be capable of shooting ultra-violet rays, we still do not have any evidence to suggest that a god had directly reacted to said rays.
Additionally, it had a different effect to Poseidon's beams. Instead of transmuting or liquifying its target it simply pushed a 100 ft tall metal monstrosity back.
If it is assumed that Poseidon's transmuting beam and erasure beam have different properties and that one is light and one is energy (even though they are not mutually exclusive concepts) the same should apply if we are to attribute the properties of the Athena Parthenos statue's ultraviolet rays to Poseidon's glowing blue beams.
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Wasn't really meant to be serious.
Is there any evidence Zeus throws the Masterbolt at the speed of lightning.
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All other lightning comes from it, so it should be lightning speed at least. Don't recall anyone reacting to it though.
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- #542
Would Zues scale to it though? He is throwing the bolt.
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Attack speed, but then some gods have straight up lightspeed attack speed too, our problem is finding reaction feats.
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Sorry for the late reply, but I agree with the others. I don't think this has enough to qualify.
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No problem. Thank you for helping out.
Maybe, but if somebody can dodge or parry Zeus' lightning, that could potentially also work.
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I don't think anyone does. Zues is quoted as have been using the Olympians as target practice. Lends more credence to the idea that the Demigod lightning reactions are invalid, or the Masterbolt being faster than real lightning.
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Because of that though, it means we need the Demigod speed re-evaluated.
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Falsetrajectory said he had some speed calcs, idk if he posted them or anything though.
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Vietthai96
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Somehow i don't received the "alert". What happend guys??
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I apologize for not getting back to everyone about the feats and future calcs I had mentioned. I have not completed them due to issues regarding the relevant quotes, namely that each has limitations to accurate the values obtained from said feats are.
I found the idea that Percy and Jason's reaction speed scale to Ephialtes' combat speed to be straight-up inaccurate when reading through the chapters where they fought. This can clearly be illustrated by a single paragraph from their final clash.
While the fight contains many impressive feats of skill, speed, durability, strategy, and strength for both Jason and Percy the pair ultimately ended up having to be saved by the rest of the crew of the Argo II.
Similarly, the notion that Hazel's reaction speed scaling off of Arion's travel speed, based on the fact that she can ride the hypersonic horse, seems to be partly, as opposed to wholly, inaccurate.
Arion is capable of manoeuvring on his own while traveling at hypersonic speeds as he is an intelligent, sentient creature and has never been solely dependent on Hazel to guide him.
Additionally, Arion seems to require long straights to reach hypersonic speeds even despite his ludicrous acceleration and has poor manoeuvrability in close quarters at high speeds and thus travels at lower speeds to offsets this drawback meaning it's difficult to pinpoint exactly what speed Arion moves in combat. That combined with the ambiguity on the degree to which Hazel actually reacts to objects while fighting or riding on Arion and the lack of concrete feats make it hard to quantify her reaction speed in this way.
There is a possibility that I missed a quote in my notes that would allow for her reaction speed to be quantified through scaling to Arion. I will double-check ASAP.
Lastly, the assertion that arrows fired by Demigods move at massively supersonic speeds due to the enormous draw weights of their bows comes from scaling rather than a direct statement from the books.
This scaling, while accurate, makes it difficult to quantify the speed of said arrows without making assumptions about the draw weight of the bows of certain Demigods as their draw weights are never mentioned in the series.
One method that I employed to estimate the speed was to first determine the draw weight of a Demigod's bow and then plugging that into an arrow speed calculator.
The draw weight was estimated by finding a Demigod's maximum dumbbell row weight (an exercise that uses the same muscle group as drawing a bow-string) by comparing it to their best lifting feat. This was done by determining the multiplier to convert a dead-lift to a dumbbell row by using weight lifting data obtained from someone of an appropriate body type.
An excellent source of data I used primarily for this was strengthlevel.com where people input their age, body weight, and lifting weight for a myriad of weight-based exercises which are sorted into tables of weightlifting standards based on a bell curve of all the data collected.
This method is of course used to estimate arrow speeds. However, it was the only way I could get an actual numerical value for speed for their arrows.
I am doubtful that this method would be approved by the calc-group which I why I am hesitant to use this method in a legitimate calculation to be submitted for approval.
However, if others agree that this method may have some merit I will do a calculation write-up which I will submit for evaluation.
While these particular feats proved to be unhelpful with providing concrete reaction speed feats I was able to find quotes that could be used to determine the reaction speeds of both Demigods and Gods using already approved calcs.
These quotes come from pages 287 and 288 from the Blood of Olympus ebook.
These quotes allow the approved calc of Ephialtes having a super-sonic+ combat speed to be used to scale the reaction speed of Demigods and Gods.
The first example shows that Percy and Poseidon can best the twins Ephialtes and Otis at melee combat, meaning that Poseidon's reaction and combat speed are at least equal to Ephialtes' as Percy alone was unable to keep up with him.
As Otis is Ephialtes twin he should be capable of similar reaction and combat speeds which means that it's safe to say that since Percy + Poseidon >= Ephialtes + Otis and Percy < Ephialtes that Poseidon >= Ephialtes in terms of reaction and combat speed.
The second and third examples show that Demigods (with help) and Gods can individually react to the attacks of other Gigantes, which supports the first example.
It should be noted that while the other Gigantes all possess similar physical stats and should have comparable combat and reaction speed to Ephialtes, due to the varying sizes of said giants it would be inaccurate to say that they have exactly equal reaction and combat speeds. Mass and height would have an effect on the speed they can attack at.
For comparison, Porphyrion, the king of the Gigantes, stands at around 40 ft tall, whereas Periboa stands at around 30 ft tall while Ephilates and Otis stand at a measly 12 ft tall.
It would be inaccurate to say that Piper and Jason directly scale to Ephialtes Mach 3 feat as they were reacting to the attacks of giants more than double Ephialtes' size meaning their attacks should move slower.
Of course, this interpretation of these feats and the degree to which they can be applied to the Demigods and Gods' profiles need to be agreed on before any changes can be made.
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