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Dropping the Riordanverse Tier by smiting it with Zeus' Lightning Bolt

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Mazdoesstuff said:
If we are going through with the speed revision then I believe we should scale all of the top tier demigods to Ephialtes’ Mach 3 feat for now, until better feats are obtained
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Yeah, I agree.

Sorry, I wasn't recieving notifs lol.

Then the Gods end up in the Supersonic+/Hyprsonic category from massively upscaling?
 
FalseTrajectory said:
This scaling, while accurate, makes it difficult to quantify the speed of said arrows without making assumptions about the draw weight of the bows of certain Demigods as their draw weights are never mentioned in the series.

One method that I employed to estimate the speed was to first determine the draw weight of a Demigod's bow and then plugging that into an arrow speed calculator.

The draw weight was estimated by finding a Demigod's maximum dumbbell row weight (an exercise that uses the same muscle group as drawing a bow-string) by comparing it to their best lifting feat. This was done by determining the multiplier to convert a dead-lift to a dumbbell row by using weight lifting data obtained from someone of an appropriate body type.

An excellent source of data I used primarily for this was strengthlevel.com where people input their age, body weight, and lifting weight for a myriad of weight-based exercises which are sorted into tables of weightlifting standards based on a bell curve of all the data collected.

This method is of course used to estimate arrow speeds. However, it was the only way I could get an actual numerical value for speed for their arrows.

I am doubtful that this method would be approved by the calc-group which I why I am hesitant to use this method in a legitimate calculation to be submitted for approval.

However, if others agree that this method may have some merit I will do a calculation write-up which I will submit for evaluation.
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I think it's valid. It seems within range of what would make sense for the verse (Not a massive outlier), and makes even more sense as it mainly scales to mid-low tier demigods. You should definitely make a post on it.
 
Cryo123 said:
I think it's valid. It seems within range of what would make sense for the verse (Not a massive outlier), and makes even more sense as it mainly scales to mid-low tier demigods. You should definitely make a post on it.
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I am planning on doing a Demigod speed, strength, and durability CRT in the future, but if this scaling is agreed on in this CRT wouldn't super-sonic+ reaction and combat speeds be able to be added to the god's profiles immediately?

Edit: I just realized you were referring to the somewhat dubious arrow scaling. If you think I should then I will get started on the write-up.
However, if other members think that this calculation method is inaccurate I will not submit it for evaluation.
 
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I mean you could always just assume an average real life arrow, I don't find a problem with the method though personally.

You know now that I think about it, since we're discarding a lot of the god feats, is using gravitational constant even accurate for the sky feat since gravity doesn't really work like that in the minds of the Greeks?
 
Spinosaurus75DinosaurFan said:
You know now that I think about it, since we're discarding a lot of the god feats, is using gravitational constant even accurate for the sky feat since gravity doesn't really work like that in the minds of the Greeks?
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The holding the sky feat isn't a feat of physical strength but mental strength. Artemis and Poseidon both stated that it was a feat of incredible will, not incredible strength.

Even if there was some physical component to the feat it would be impossible to accurately pinpoint an exact numerical value for the force they would have needed to exert to hold the sky in place due to the nebulous nature of the magic used to "hold" the sky.

Additionally, for Demigods specifically, it is an incredibly massive outlier.

The two Demigods shown to perform the holding the sky feat, Annabeth and Percy have failed twice to lift objects weighing more than a couple of tons while working together.

The first instance was when they were 13 (a year younger than when they lifted the sky) were unable to even budge a 6-ton boulder to save their friend's life.
He strolled off down the mountain in his baby-blue
groom’s outfit, leaving us alone with a pot of boiling water
and a six-ton boulder.
We tried for what seemed like hours, but it was no good.
The boulder wouldn’t move. - P.172, Sea of Monsters (ebook)
Click to expand...

The second instance was when they were unable to lift a 20 tons statue that had their friend (another Demigod) pinned beneath itself when they had help at 16 years old (2 years older and much stronger than they were when they held the sky).
The archway crumbled. I looked up in time to see a twenty-ton scowling Hera topple over on us. Annabeth and I would’ve been flattened, but Thalia shoved us from behind and we landed just out of danger.
“Thalia!” Grover cried.
When the dust cleared and the mountain stopped rocking, we found her still alive, but her legs were pinned under the statue.
We tried desperately to move it, but it would’ve taken several Cyclopes. When we tried to pull Thalia out from under it, she yelled in pain.
“I survive all those battles,” she growled, “and I get
defeated by a stupid chunk of rock!” - P.284, The Last Olympian (ebook)
Click to expand...

These 2 anti-feats of them being unable to lift objects quintillions of times lighter than the sky are enough for that feat to be struck from their profiles.

I was saving bringing this up for my Demigod speed, durability and strength CRT but what the hell, I can live with that change being made now.
 
I think we should try to focus on applying stuff though, there's a lot of stuff that has been gone over this thread already
 
Armorchompy said:
I think we should try to focus on applying stuff though, there's a lot of stuff that has been gone over this thread already
Click to expand...
Alright. What are your thoughts on gods having super-sonic+ reactions and combat speeds due to Poseidon scaling to Ephialtes combat and reaction speed?

The sooner a verdict is reached regarding the god's reaction speed the sooner this CRT can be closed.
 
That seems reasonable to me. I think one could make a good argument that Percy and Jason scale to Ephy with an "at most" rating but I'm not gonna push for it.
 
Armorchompy said:
That seems reasonable to me. I think one could make a good argument that Percy and Jason scale to Ephy with an "at most" rating but I'm not gonna push for it.
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Alright. That's 4 votes for and none against.

Is that enough votes for the new rating to be added to the god's profiles or should there be a grace period before any changes are made?
 
Don't worry, while Zeus's lightning bolt had some false trajectory ya still got it down

I'm not sorry
 
Spinosaurus75DinosaurFan said:
I agree with an "at most" rating for the demigods, although if we can find a supersonic feat or something like that that would be more ideal.
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There are a couple of potentially super-sonic Demigod reaction feats, but none of them are clear-cut.

The two that I can think of off the top of my head are Percy reacting to potentially super-sonic Molotov cocktail cannonballs in SoM and Percy (and other Demigods) reacting to arrows fired by beings who can dead-flit multiple tons.

Both have their own issues, with the first being overly complicated to calculate and the latter requiring a potentially inaccurate calculation method.

As I am currently working on a Demigod speed, durability, and strength CRT I will save determining Demigod reactions speeds for when that actually gets uploaded.
 
So what are the conclusions here so far regarding what should be applied based on this thread?
 
6-C via their True Forms | At least High 6-B (Was capable of vaporizing seas during the war against the Titans) | Varies (God's can split their essence amongst multiple avatars, lessening their individual power)

At least Supersonic+ reaction speeds, likely far higher (Far superior to Percy Jackson, who could react to the Giants)

For Zeus and Typhon you would need likely higher for the High 6B rating, and then Zeus would need another far higher for his Masterbolt.

Edit: Most gods would also get Sol movement/attack speeds.
 
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Cryo123 said:
6-C via their True Forms | At least High 6-B (Was capable of vaporizing seas during the war against the Titans) | Varies (God's can split their essence amongst multiple avatars, lessening their individual power)

At least Supersonic+ reaction speeds, likely far higher (Far superior to Percy Jackson, who could react to the Giants)

For Zeus and Typhon you would need likely higher for the High 6B rating, and then Zeus would need another far higher for his Masterbolt.

Edit: Most gods would also get Sol movement/attack speeds.
Click to expand...
For the speed, I think it would be more accurate to say:
At least supersonic+ reaction and combat speed (Superior to Ephialtes, who could react to lightning).

As no feats above super-sonic+ for the gods were approved and Demigods have never actually surpassed Ephialtes in terms of reaction or combat speed and only scale above slower giants.
 
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For speed, there's the thing that their "teleportation" is just them flying around really fast, and they can apparently intercept and fight each other in that state, so if you can find an instance where they teleport from 2 known locations, we could try getting a speed from it.
 
InfiniteSped said:
For speed, there's the thing that their "teleportation" is just them flying around really fast, and they can apparently intercept and fight each other in that state, so if you can find an instance where they teleport from 2 known locations, we could try getting a speed from it.
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We've never actually gotten any indication that gods can actually fight while teleporting, just that the wind gods can stop other gods from getting past them if they try to teleport.

How exactly they manage to do so is a mystery. The same goes for teleportation and its exact mechanics.

All we know is that gods turn into energy when doing so and that they don't actually dematerialize and materialize, but rather move really fast between points A and B. We don't know if gods can consciously control their movements while teleporting or even what stimuli the wind gods react to.

Hell, we don't even know how fast they move while teleporting because we never, to my knowledge, see a god teleport between two known locations within a quantifiable time frame.

If we could actually find a feat that allows us to quantify their speed this discussion might be a little easier but at this point, I don't think there's enough evidence for the aforementioned wind god reaction feat to be used in any meaningful way.




We absolutely could, unfortunately, we have been unable to find such a feat of either a god teleporting between 2 known locations or a god reacting to another god teleporting
 
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Well, he just says the wind gods are faster than the true form travel. And in Blood of Olympus we see Zeus using the wind gods as mounts for his chariot, and from what we see of Jason catching wind spirits to do the same, he probably had to lasso them straight up.

I'll see if I can find an instance we can put a number on.
 
Antvasima said:
Thank you to everybody who are helping out here.
Click to expand...
I would like to provide the same thanks to all of you. This has been 6 pages and 44 days of powerscaling hell lmao. It may go on for even longer if we get that wind gods calc or the Pegasus feat, this is a War of Attrition.

I would say it'll get better, but the Norse gods are even worse...
 
So, in Titan's Curse, Artemis leaves with her true form, then the Pegasi arrive shortly after and fly to Olympus as well. It doesn't give a timeframe, but it doesn't seem longer than a minute to me, considering Percy and Annabeth's conversation. They went from Crissy Field, California, to Manhattan, New York, apparently 2571 km in a straight line.
 
Found the wind calc but I'll have to take a look at it if the math is accurate

Mellie breaks wind (PJO)

"Oh, that would be Mellie," Hedge said, chewing happily on his carnation. "Those winds shot us halfway across the country, I'd guess." Not quite, but good enough for a feat. Originally, Piper, Jason, Leo, and Hedge were in Aeolus's very own...
www.fanverse.org www.fanverse.org
 
While I was at it, picked up a pegasus calc from that website too, but again we'll have to evaluate if it's accurate

Extreme chariot racing (PJO)

The Lost Hero opens with Jason, Piper, and Leo wrecking the Grand Canyon Skywalk in true demigod fashion. After driving off a few monsters, Annabeth and Butch arrive to bring them to Camp Half-Blood. They rose over the Grand Canyon and headed...
www.fanverse.org www.fanverse.org
 
Spinosaurus75DinosaurFan said:
Found the wind calc but I'll have to take a look at it if the math is accurate

Mellie breaks wind (PJO)

"Oh, that would be Mellie," Hedge said, chewing happily on his carnation. "Those winds shot us halfway across the country, I'd guess." Not quite, but good enough for a feat. Originally, Piper, Jason, Leo, and Hedge were in Aeolus's very own...
www.fanverse.org www.fanverse.org
Click to expand...
This calc credits Mellie with the winds, but all she did is cushion them.

Mellie’s robes billowed around her. Jason and the others clung to her desperately, and they began to slow down, but the storm spirits were
screaming into the tunnel behind them.
“Can’t—hold—long,” Mellie warned. “Stay together! When the winds hit—”
“You’re doing great, Mellie,” Hedge said. “My own mama was an aura, you know. She couldn’t have done better herself.”
“Iris-message me?” Mellie pleaded.
Hedge winked.
“Could you guys plan your date later?” Piper screamed. “Look!”
Behind them, the tunnel was turning dark. Jason could feel his ears pop as the pressure built.
“Can’t hold them,” Mellie warned. “But I’ll try to shield you, do you one more favor.”
“Thanks, Mellie,” Jason said. “I hope you get a new job.”
She smiled, and then dissolved, wrapping them in a warm gentle breeze. Then the real winds hit, shooting them into the sky so fast, Jason blacked
out.
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I'm not sure if it would still be applicable then.
 
InfiniteSped said:
So, in Titan's Curse, Artemis leaves with her true form, then the Pegasi arrive shortly after and fly to Olympus as well. It doesn't give a timeframe, but it doesn't seem longer than a minute to me, considering Percy and Annabeth's conversation. They went from Crissy Field, California, to Manhattan, New York, apparently 2571 km in a straight line.
Click to expand...
There's a time jump between them leaving the airfield and the conversation taking place as well as long lapses of time between parts of their conversation which makes it extremely hard to pin down an exact time-frame for their journey.

However, if you take into account the timeline of events we can actually get a good picture of the time it took for them to travel from San Francisco and New York.

This timeline starts with Percy making an offhand remark about the sunset:
“Zoe weaved in and out of traffic on the Golden Gate Bridge. The sun was sinking on the horizon when we finally got into Marin County and exited the highway. The roads were insanely narrow, winding through forests
and up the sides of hills and around the edges of steep ravines. Zoe didn't slow down at all.” P.225, Titan's Curse
Click to expand...

According to this day-light tracker, sunset in San Francisco occurs at around 4:58pm. This is our starting point.

The gang then travel for about 30 minutes to Mt Tamalpais. Once there they then take roughly an hour to free Annabeth, fight Atlas, and then escape with Artemis based on the lack of mention of a change in day-light and these supporting statements:

The sun was going down. I figured we had less than an hour to save Annabeth.” P.225, Titan's Curse
Click to expand...
When the fog cleared, I was still on the side of the mountain, but the road was dirt. The grass was thicker. The sunset made a bloodred slash across the sea. - P.229, Titan's Curse
Click to expand...

They then travel on the Moon Chariot from Mt Tamalpais to Crissy airfield with Percy stating that:

We landed at Crissy Field after nightfall. - P. 248, Titan's Curse
Click to expand...

According to this canon timeline, this moment in Titan's Curse happens on the 20th of December, with the Solstice being on the 21st.

According to this day-light tracker, nightfall starts at approximately 6:28 pm on the 20th, which fits almost perfectly with the timeline established so far.

Nightfall would've happened either right as they were leaving or during their flight to Crissy airfield.

If we assume the former and that since the Moon Chariot flew in tandem with a Sopwith Camel we can determine the time it would've taken to get to Crissy airfield.

The distance between Mt Tamalpais and Crissy airfield is 15.5 km and a Sopwith Camel has a top speed of 182 kph, meaning it took 5 minutes to travel there, meaning they touched down at around 6:33 pm.

We're told in titan's curse that the Olympian's winter solstice meeting starts at 12 am on the winter solstice and that the pegasi arrived just as the solstice started.

Obviously, the conversation happened between them landing and taking off for Olympus but it was only 5 pages worth of talking and there were no big-time skips during their conversation. Even if we assume they were talking super-slowly, they at most would've taken at most 12.5 minutes to speak the 1247 words spoken at 100 wpm (slower than average).

If we take into account breaks and pauses in conversation and the time it took for them to actually get airborne we could say that it took as long as 25 minutes, putting the time of departure at 6:58 pm, meaning it took them 5 hours to reach Mt Olympus.

It is possible that Percy wasn't using the textbook definition of nightfall, but even if we assume that the whole Mt Tamalpais debacle happened over multiple hours, it would've still taken at bare minimum a couple of hours to reach Mt. Olympus, which is impressive but nowhere near as impressive as you are making it out to be.
 
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Spinosaurus75DinosaurFan said:
While I was at it, picked up a pegasus calc from that website too, but again we'll have to evaluate if it's accurate

Extreme chariot racing (PJO)

The Lost Hero opens with Jason, Piper, and Leo wrecking the Grand Canyon Skywalk in true demigod fashion. After driving off a few monsters, Annabeth and Butch arrive to bring them to Camp Half-Blood. They rose over the Grand Canyon and headed...
www.fanverse.org www.fanverse.org
Click to expand...
I looked at the calc and it doesn't take into account the time between them getting air-borne and Leo starting the conversation, which consists of a lengthy inner-monologue by Piper.

Sure it probably didn't take much time, but it didn't take no time either.
 
Well, they had to climb the mountain still, so that could have taken some hours, and I guess sunset would be a bit later as well since they were going up. The conversation between Percy and Annabeth was pretty short as well, it seems a bit weird for him to wait several hours to start it.

Worth noting too that they crossed the whole U.S, so they were flying through some timezones, New York time would be ahead of California. Although he also says dawn was gettting close, so, idk.
 
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