Dropping the Riordanverse Tier by smiting it with Zeus' Lightning Bolt

[Cryo123]

Simply put, the scaling for Percy Jackson’s gods needs some downgrades.

First, let’s start with speed;

An amped Percy from the first book The Lightning Thief, has an Ocean amped Percy Jackson tagging Ares. This occurred years before his physical prime in The Last Olympian, and while this is Are’s casual reaction speed, if he were even close to Relativistic speeds it would have, simply put, been impossible without a 1079 times speed boost at the minimum on Percy’s end. (Prime Percy scales to Jason at Mach 81). If, however, the Massively Hypersonic+ calc for Hermes was used, this feat would no longer be impossible.

Now on to circular scaling which plagues this verse. All major gods are by default Relativistic, because they can fight other gods, but no god has a relativistic reaction feat. The best you have is the gods turning into light, but that is outright ridiculous to scale to their compat speed. Maybe if you argued that Apollo’s light arrows are dodgeable this could work, but such a thing has not been clearly shown or calced and so it should not be used until then.

The High tier gods speed should be like this (I will use Hyperion for an example)

Speed: High Hypersonic+ (Kept up with Percy Jackson) | Massively Hypersonic+ Movement Speed (Should be comparable to Hermes) | Speed of light attack speeds via light blasts | Speed of light movement speed via turning into light

Now onto the AP downgrade that this verse needs:

Typhon, one of the most powerful characters in the entire Riordanverse, was said to be responsible for the craters on the moon. For an example of the power needed to do this, let’s use the largest moon crater, South Pole–Aitken basin. It is 2,500 kilometers deep, and about 8.2 kilometers deep. Plugging this into our Semi-Ellipsoid Calculator, we get a volume of 26,834,437.249 Cubic Kilometers or 2.6834437249e+22 cubic centimeters. Now let’s apply violent fragmentation (An extreme lowball), Pulverization, and Vaporization (Scientists say the craters on the Moon are caused by meteors, so this will be our high end).

Violent Fragmentation:
69 joules/cubic centimeter

69 x 2.6834437249e+22 = 1.8515762e+24 joules


Pulverization:
214.35 joules/cubic centimeter

214.35 x 2.6834437249e+22 = 5.7519616e+24 joules


Vaporization:
25,700 joules/cubic centimeter

25,700 x 2.6834437249e+22 = 6.8964504e+26 joules


So to sum it up:

Low End Violent Fragmentation: 442.537332696 Teratons (High 6B, Country Level)

Mid End Pulverization: 1.37475181644 Petatons (6A, Continent Level)

High End Vaporization: 164.829120459 Petatons (High 6A, Multi-Continent Level)

The gods creating constellations could be some level of reality manipulation or matter manipulation, as it would be preposterous to say that one of the verse’s god tiers best feat is hundreds of times weaker than Artemis. Also, in the context of the Riordanverse, the Sun is not actually as far away, powerful, or large, and the constellations are not real stars, but objects placed in the sky itself. Within the Riordan Verse, reality exists in layers, where the constellations are both real stars scientifically, while also being smaller, placed objects for those exposed to the Greek Pantheon. It’s confusing, but your belief system determines which rules apply to you.

Not only this, but Zues flooding the world is 5 Exatons, which while higher, is still only Multi-Continent level, and would, again, be explained by weather manipulation (Which he is THE GOD OF, and should be more powerful with), reality manipulation, or basic matter manipulation. Not only that, but Zues consistently outclasses the other gods by leagues and leagues.

Also, the minor gods should not be over 1,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 of times weaker than the likes of Apollo, at only island level.


Then there’s the Supernova feat, where Jason describes Hera’s true form to look like a supernova. There is no reason this should be valid, as Jason has never seen a supernova or any such explosion and it most likely is a hyperbole. Even worse, he said it “looks like”, and yeah a being of pure energy that can obliterate continents will look like a supernova to an Island level character, but that doesn’t mean it’s comparable to one. If anything, the lack of damage, the fact that the characters only feel a flash of heat when near her, and only die if they directly see her promotes the assumption that this statement is simply put, false. It is a simile meant to illustrate how bright her true form is.

In conclusion, all major Gods, Titans, and Primordials need their speeds to be edited appropriately to remove their relativistic rating until more concrete feats can be provided, and all major Gods, Titans, and Primordials need their tiers lowered to Multi-Continent level.

Gae could still scale to planet level as an Earth sized entity, but the AP profiles should be edited as follows, (Assuming High 6A was used).

Zeus: At most High 6A physically (Physically weaker than Typhon, and was defeated by him) | Higher with Weather Manipulation (Was able to flood the entire planet) | Far higher with the Thunderbolt (Was able to defeat Typhon with it in only several shots)

Typhon: At least High 6A physically (Was able to create craters on the moon’s surface)

And Typhon’s durability is at least his AP, but could reach 5C as it took several shots from Zues’s lightning bolt to weaken him enough to be captured (Which massively Upscales Zeus' 5 exaton feat), but that will not be included in this draft, as the Typhon feat is up for debate.

Typhon: At least High 6A, likely far higher (Was able to take multiple strikes from Zues’s lightning bolt before being incapacitated)

Zues: At most High 6A (Was defeated by Typhon)

All other gods should scale noticeably below Zues, and would scale to a 6A+ rating or the bottom end of High 6A.

Can't wait to see what you guys think! My Typhon calculation hasn't been verified yet, should I make a blog for it?

Edit: Percy Jackson should also get limited Instinctive Reactions for being able to block bullets he couldn't see by "sensing their path". Gods may also get upgraded to Relativistic+ to Sol anyways due to a possible new calc.

Current Calculations:
The god's vaporize a Sea (Accepted, High 6B, ballpark calc)
Typhon throws a temper-tantrum (Accepted, will probably be removed though, High 6A, would only scale to Zues and Typhon)
Zeus' Masterbolt < Serious Series Punch (Pending, High 6A, only scales to Zeus and Typhon)

 

[Setsuna_tenma]

agree

 

[Hellbeast]

I agree with the Gods being High 6-A but I'd consider Zeus flooding the world his general power. It's consistent with Typhon's feat (Typhon is notably stronger iirc tho) and other such feats from the Gods and Titans of the verse

 

[Gilad_Hyperstar]

Also, in the context of the Riordanverse, the Sun is not actually as far away, powerful, or large, and the constellations are not real stars, but objects placed in the sky itself. Within the Riordan Verse, reality exists in layers, where the constellations are both real stars scientifically, while also being smaller, placed objects for those exposed to the Greek Pantheon. It’s confusing, but your belief system determines which rules apply to you.

That's where you're wrong. It was said multiple times in the Kane Chronicles (which are in the same verse as PJO) that both science and magic are true, and both are two sides of reality. In the Sun's case, the sun is actually both an actual star, and Apollo/Ra driving it across the sky

That means that the stars in the constellations Artemis created are real, since again, both science and magic are true

 

[Emirp sumitpo]

I know little to nothing about this verse but I should point out:

Zeus: At most High 6A physically (Physically weaker than Typhon, and was defeated by him)

Zues: At most High 6A (Was defeated by Typhon)

That is very flimsy justification and the way it's worded sounds like zeus doesn't have reason to scale to Typhon.

Also you need to put your calculations in blogs and have them approved before attempting a CRT

 

[Gilad_Hyperstar]

Zeus was the one that finished Typhon when he got trapped the first time. His lightning hurted Typhon and caused him to drop a mountain be was going to throw on Zeus, thus trapping him

The maater bolt also managed to momentarily delay his rampage and stunned Typhon

 

[Emirp sumitpo]

Then it should be worded to something like: "Despite being weaker, Zeus can still harm the likes of Typhon"

 

[Hellbeast]

Zeus also is far beyond the lesser Olympians and contributed to the Great War (which I believe was said to have vaporized oceans)

 

[Armorchompy]

Typhon, one of the most powerful characters in the entire Riordanverse, was said to be responsible for the craters on the moon. For an example of the power needed to do this, let’s use the largest moon crater, South Pole–Aitken basin. It is 2,500 kilometers deep, and about 8.2 kilometers deep. Plugging this into our Semi-Ellipsoid Calculator, we get a volume of 26,834,437.249 Cubic Kilometers or 2.6834437249e+22 cubic centimeters. Now let’s apply violent fragmentation (An extreme lowball), Pulverization, and Vaporization (Scientists say the craters on the Moon are caused by meteors, so this will be our high end).

Violent Fragmentation:
69 joules/cubic centimeter

69 x 2.6834437249e+22 = 1.8515762e+24 joules


Pulverization:
214.35 joules/cubic centimeter

214.35 x 2.6834437249e+22 = 5.7519616e+24 joules


Vaporization:
25,700 joules/cubic centimeter

25,700 x 2.6834437249e+22 = 6.8964504e+26 joules


So to sum it up:

Low End Violent Fragmentation: 442.537332696 Teratons (High 6B, Country Level)

Mid End Pulverization: 1.37475181644 Petatons (6A, Continent Level)

High End Vaporization: 164.829120459 Petatons (High 6A, Multi-Continent Level)

Can't wait to see what you guys think! My Typhon calculation hasn't been verified yet, should I make a blog for it?

I would use fragmentation, actually. Definitely not pulv and absolutely not vape.

 

[Cryo123]

Dude I can't express how hyped I am rn, thanks to everyone who's responded with feedback!

That's where you're wrong. It was said multiple times in the Kane Chronicles (which are in the same verse as PJO) that both science and magic are true, and both are two sides of reality. In the Sun's case, the sun is actually both an actual star, and Apollo/Ra driving it across the sky

That means that the stars in the constellations Artemis created are real, since again, both science and magic are true

Yes, both science and magic are true, but it is clearly shown that they are not the same, and are more different layers of reality.

For example. the Sun is both a star in the center of our solar system, Ra on his boat, and a magic chariot (Or in Apollo's case, car) that circles in the sky around the Earth. There is a difference there. All of these systems exist at the same time, and are important, but they are not congruent to eachother.

I would use fragmentation, actually. Definitely not pulv and absolutely not vape.

Yeah vape was a random high end, but Pulv is probably the best because there are no random rock fragments on the moon, and as it is not geologically or meteorologically active, there would be nothing to wear away at those remains. Also, National Geographic Coorberates the idea that meteors pulverized the moon's surface. This would be consistent with pretty much every major meteor impact I can think of as well.

I know little to nothing about this verse but I should point out:



That is very flimsy justification and the way it's worded sounds like zeus doesn't have reason to scale to Typhon.

Also you need to put your calculations in blogs and have them approved before attempting a CRT

Thank you lol sorry about that, I'll get on that right away.

So would putting it as At most 6A physically (Was able to stand his ground against, but ultimately was defeated by, Typhon) | Higher with weather manipulation (Was able to flood the world) | Far Higher with the master bolt (Was able to halt Typhon's rampage with only several strikes)

Edit: So I've made the blog post, its right here.

 

[Gilad_Hyperstar]

Dude I can't express how hyped I am rn, thanks to everyone who's responded with feedback!


Yes, both science and magic are true, but it is clearly shown that they are not the same, and are more different layers of reality.

For example. the Sun is both a star in the center of our solar system, Ra on his boat, and a magic chariot (Or in Apollo's case, car) that circles in the sky around the Earth. There is a difference there. All of these systems exist at the same time, and are important, but they are not congruent to eachother.

You missed the part where the sun is real too. Earth both spins on its axis to cause night and day as well as these are caused by Apollo/Ra in their journeys

That would mean that while Artemis places the constellation of the huntress in the sky, she also created the actual stars that are seen there. And since science is true as well, those that will observe these stars will see actual stars like how we do in other mythical constellations (as Artemis' feat isn't the only one the gods did in greek mythology)

Besides, when the Kanes emerged with Ra from the river of the night, there were two suns visible in the sky. One was the real sun, and the other was Ra's boat

 

[Armorchompy]

Also, National Geographic Coorberates the idea that meteors pulverized the moon's surface. This would be consistent with pretty much every major meteor impact I can think of as well.

Fair enough for pulverization then

 

[Cryo123]

Besides, when the Kanes emerged with Ra from the river of the night, there were two suns visible in the sky. One was the real sun, and the other was Ra's boat

Yeah which means Ra shouldn't scale to star level, and Atremis probably shouldn't scale to the constelations. Even if we say she caused a ripple effect which made those stars, she didn't do that with her power, it was a side effect to compensate for her actions.

But as science is also true along with magic, then those stars should have existed milllions of years before Artemis even came to be. It creates a paradox, where she created non stars, which actually become real stars to compensate, but those stars already exsisted, so something else has to be happening here.

 

[Cryo123]

My bet is that when the Greek Gods "make stars" they're simple allowing certain distant stars to be visible in the sky that wouldn't be normally, but that's not confirmed or anything.

 

[Gilad_Hyperstar]

My bet is that when the Greek Gods "make stars" they're simple allowing certain distant stars to be visible in the sky that wouldn't be normally, but that's not confirmed or anything.

Unless you can prove it, this is nothing more than a headcanon. You need to provide proof for that to work

 

[Cryo123]

Unless you can prove it, this is nothing more than a headcanon. You need to provide proof for that to work

Oh ik, that's why I said that wasn't confirmed, just some food for thought.

 

[Gilad_Hyperstar]

Oh ik, that's why I said that wasn't confirmed, just some food for thought.

If you present no proof to why you think they should be downgraded, then it's just your headcanon. Maybe it could be right, buy you got to prove that it is correct

Meanwhile what I said was directly stated in the Kane Chronicles several times

 

[Cryo123]

If you present no proof to why you think they should be downgraded, then it's just your headcanon. Maybe it could be right, buy you got to prove that it is correct

Meanwhile what I said was directly stated in the Kane Chronicles several times

I was only saying my star solution was just a random thought.

The fact that the "looked like a supernova" feat is not star level is true, the fact that all other feats from the upper gods are multi-continental is true, and the fact that the stars made by the gods are not the same as the stars in actualy science is true, in fact, you even agree with me on this fact

Besides, when the Kanes emerged with Ra from the river of the night, there were two suns visible in the sky. One was the real sun, and the other was Ra's boat

Ra is responsible for his Sun and his Sun only, not the scentific star. On a similar note, Appolo's car is not as fast or as hot as our Sun, and circles in the sky. Why, if Appolo's Sun is not the scientific Sun, and Ra's sun is not the scientific Sun (Ie being as hot as, as bright as, even just working in a similar way to our Sun), are Artemis's stars actually stars?

And you forgot to acknowledge that the stars in are sky are older than Artemis is anyways.

Even if this held up, it would still be an outlier, as every other feat in the verse, from the flooding, to the craters, to the masterbolt's power, point to a continental Pantheon.

 

[Gilad_Hyperstar]

I was only saying my star solution was just a random thought.

If you want this to be applied, you got to prove it. If you made a CRT, you got to provide proof

The fact that the "looked like a supernova" feat is not star level is true, the fact that all other feats from the upper gods are multi-continental is true, and the fact that the stars made by the gods are not the same as the stars in actualy science is true, in fact, you even agree with me on this fact

I never mentioned the "supernova" feat. Don't put words in my mouth

Ra is responsible for his Sun and his Sun only, not the scentific star. On a similar note, Appolo's car is not as fast or as hot as our Sun, and circles in the sky. Why, if Appolo's Sun is not the scientific Sun, and Ra's sun is not the scientific Sun (Ie being as hot as, as bright as, even just working in a similar way to our Sun), are Artemis's stars actually stars?

Because they are representations of the sun. As I said, the sun is both Apollo's car / Ra's ship and an actual star. None of those contradict the other in this verse. Both science and magic are true.

Besides, Apollo and Ra's feats got nothing to do with Artemis' feat

And you forgot to acknowledge that the stars in are sky are older than Artemis is anyways.

Which stars? Those that she literally created???

Even if this held up, it would still be an outlier, as every other feat in the verse, from the flooding, to the craters, to the masterbolt's power, point to a continental Pantheon.

Uhh, there's also Aphophis devours Ra which causes the Sun to not exist anymore (which would've happened in the Kane Chronicles too if it wasn't for Carter and Sadie stopping him before Ra would die)

 

[Kingofwolves999]

Wasn’t there a statement that TWO suns were seen in the sky during one of the Percy Jackson books? Because Percy I think was driving Apollos car and messed up?

So clearly the “sun” that Apollo drives and moves is not at all the scientific sun, and should not scale to it in any way. It representing it doesn’t mean it’s equal to it unless there’s some statement that he outputs the same energy levels as the actual sun.

 

[Kingofwolves999]

Ah it was Thalia driving the car and she crashed it into a lake.

Also, didn’t Apollo specifically say that his sun chariot was not the actual sun, and was just a collection of what people thought the sun was? And therefore is not the real sun or should scale to it?

 

[Gilad_Hyperstar]

Wasn’t there a statement that TWO suns were seen in the sky during one of the Percy Jackson books? Because Percy I think was driving Apollos car and messed up?

Yes, though not in the Percy Jackson books. It was in the Kane Chronicles

So clearly the “sun” that Apollo drives and moves is not at all the scientific sun, and should not scale to it in any way. It representing it doesn’t mean it’s equal to it unless there’s some statement that he outputs the same energy levels as the actual sun.

What Apollo is driving is a representation of the sun. However the real sun still exists in the verse

 

[Kingofwolves999]

Yes, though not in the Percy Jackson books. It was in the Kane Chronicles

What Apollo is driving is a representation of the sun. However the real sun still exists in the verse

Yeah, so his sun shouldn’t scale to the real sun. It’s a “collection of the belief of the sun,” not the actual thing

 

[Gilad_Hyperstar]

Yeah, so his sun shouldn’t scale to the real sun. It’s a “collection of the belief of the sun,” not the actual thing

For Apollo, yes. Not for Ra though, since when Apophis devoured Ra, the real sun dissapeared as well

 

[Kingofwolves999]

For Apollo, yes. Not for Ra though, since when Apophis devoured Ra, the real sun dissapeared as well

I don’t remember the Kane chronicles that well, was just commenting on the Apollo thing because his car was definitely not applicable to the actual sun.

 

[Cryo123]

I never mentioned the "supernova" feat. Don't put words in my mouth

Omg I'm so sorry, I wasn't saying you agreed with the Supernova thing, I was saying your quote about Ra's Sun being seperate from the scientific Sun meant we agreed that The Sun is not = to Ra's Sun boat. They have the same purpose, but they are not the exact same thing. I know words being put in your mouth is annoying, and that's not what I meant to do.

 

[Gilad_Hyperstar]

Omg I'm so sorry, I wasn't saying you agreed with the Supernova thing, I was saying your quote about Ra's Sun being seperate from the scientific Sun meant we agreed that The Sun is not = to Ra's Sun boat. They have the same purpose, but they are not the exact same thing. I know words being put in your mouth is annoying, and that's not what I meant to do.

It's alright. But in Ra's case he's connected to the actual sun since when Ra was devoured by Apophis, the sun dissapeared as well. Besides, Ra could fight Apophis who can swallow the sun, so they'd be 4-C regardless

 

[Cryo123]

It's alright. But in Ra's case he's connected to the actual sun since when Ra was devoured by Apophis, the sun dissapeared as well. Besides, Ra could fight Apophis who can swallow the sun, so they'd be 4-C regardless

I think that's fair, but I'm not sure the Egyptian gods 100% scale to the Greek ones. I know their demigods do scale to whatever you call the Kane Chronical characters (I forget what they're called, I read the first book Kane Chronicals book over the course of like 5 days a few years ago, so my memory is shady on that one)

 

[Hellbeast]

I think that's fair, but I'm not sure the Egyptian gods 100% scale to the Greek ones. I know their demigods do scale to whatever you call the Kane Chronical characters (I forget what they're called, I read the first book Kane Chronicals book over the course of like 5 days a few years ago, so my memory is shady on that one)

Magicians

 

[Mazdoesstuff]

The gods creating constellations could be some level of reality manipulation or matter manipulation, as it would be preposterous to say that one of the verse’s god tiers best feat is hundreds of times weaker than Artemis.

Stopped reading once I saw this headcanon

 

[KingTempest]

For Apollo, yes. Not for Ra though, since when Apophis devoured Ra, the real sun dissapeared as well

I have all of the books in person, if you know which chapter this is in, I could pull it up and help you get a scan

 

[Vietthai96]

The topic about sun, stars and constellations, always confuse the hell out of me. I think the reason for this is because Riordan based on the myth for the past story regarding the Greek Gods, but the main setting is the modern world thus created contradiction when fused modern world with myth. If Artemis can perform that feat, mean the God must be cosmic beings, but lol they are very limited to Earth in this book. Back then i always interpreting the all those stars, constellations was created by Chaos not by the Gods, Gods just make a "call" and Chaos actually created them, well it is fitting cuz only Chaos is the cosmic being and was rated as Low 2-C lol

 

[Gilad_Hyperstar]

I have all of the books in person, if you know which chapter this is in, I could pull it up and help you get a scan

The Serpent's Shadow in one of the final episodes. Also appears in Horus' vision in the second book

 

[Gilad_Hyperstar]

Back then i always interpreting the all those stars, constellations was created by Chaos not by the Gods, Gods just make a "call" and Chaos actually created them, well it is fitting cuz only Chaos is the cosmic being and was rated as Low 2-C lol

Headcanon unless you can prove otherwise. As I said, in the Kane Chronicles it was said many times that both science and magic are true, and are simply two sides of the same world

 

[Cryo123]

Stopped reading once I saw this headcanon

The abilities proposed were meant to show that even if the star creations were legitimate, they don't have to scale to their AP. If you continued reading, you would have noticed that there is yet another feat from a top tier character that only reaches 6A, and that the very stars themselves don't matter as they aren't real stars anyways. You can disagree, but please read the full thing before you completely disregard it on something arbitrary, or at least try to be constructive.

 

[Vietthai96]

so, what High 4-C via Creation hax

 

[Mazdoesstuff]

The abilities proposed were meant to show that even if the star creations were legitimate, they don't have to scale to their AP. If you continued reading, you would have noticed that there is yet another feat from a top tier character that only reaches 6A, and that the very stars themselves don't matter as they aren't real stars anyways. You can disagree, but please read the full thing before you completely disregard it on something arbitrary, or at least try to be constructive.

Until proven otherwise they would scale to their AP thigh? A stronger character yielding a lower output for a feat isn’t necessarily an anti feat, and it has never been explicitly stated that the gods have reality warping or anything

 

[Vietthai96]

Until proven otherwise they would scale to their AP thigh? A stronger character yielding a lower output for a feat isn’t necessarily an anti feat, and it has never been explicitly stated that the gods have reality warping or anything

And did anything ever stated that they created constellation via raw power, energy, or something that scale to all????. Typhon was stated to be strongest, but only make a crater on the moon, Zeus master bolt was stated to make human atomic bomb look like a firecracker in comparison, but is that anywhere close to Large Star level???

 

[Mazdoesstuff]

Typhon was stated to be strongest, but only make a crater on the moon, Zeus master bolt was stated to make human atomic bomb look like a firecracker in comparison, but is that anywhere close to Large Star level???

Those aren’t anti feats in the slightest Until you can solidly prove that the star creation is solely hax based then the god tiers yielding High 6-A feats doesn’t automatically remove the High 4-C rating. That’s kinda how scaling works.

 

[Vietthai96]

Those aren’t anti feats in the slightest Until you can solidly prove that the star creation is solely hax based then the god tiers yielding High 6-A feats doesn’t automatically remove the High 4-C rating. That’s kinda how scaling works.

then prove me the solid statement that it is not hax but via raw power????. Creation feat by default are not scaling to everything
And how are those statement and feat are not anti feat????, it is actually stated, officially in-universe