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Dropping the Riordanverse Tier by smiting it with Zeus' Lightning Bolt

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Armorchompy said:
Could you please actually voice your concerns with them? From my memory of Riordan stuff they're quite reasonable.
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His stuff regarding Percy VS Ares cerainly isn't. Ares was toying with Percy the entire time and only got serious when Percy stabbed him. The only reason Percy survived is because Kronos stopped him from attacking, leading Ares to retreat. It was made clear that as soon as Ares got serious, Percy would've been toast
 
KingTempest said:
Creating constellations light years away vs having statements of representing an existing object close to the earth are 2 completely different things.

#1 they call Apollo's chariot the manifestation of the Sun's power. Even if it isn't as big as the actual sun, it's stated to be the manifestation of its power, and Apollo sitting smack dab in the middle of it gives him a relative dura rating.

#2 Zeus turns a lady into a star and sent her flying into space. Aside from that being a ridiculously amazing KE feat, this is solid.

#3 Jupiter flat out turns into the planet Jupiter

#4 Hera creates/summons/becomes supernova

"Celestial statements aren't exactly accurate" based on full headcanon from what I've seen

Give them a reason to affect the sun when the sun is literally One god's Job. They don't step in Apollo's/Helios' domain.

You don't see Hera manipulating Oceans or Zeus stopping all of the fires on the world. Why? Because it's none of their business.

What you just said holds no weight in the grand scheme of the verse's wishes. "Why didn't they do this" because they didn't want to.
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Right here is why I disagree. There’s literally no anti feats for the gods, and nothing proves Typhon can’t go above High 6-A. And there’s also the logic of assuming that the star creation feats are a form of reality manipulation or matter manipulation (which is a headcanon with no evidence lol)

And assuming that the Greek stars aren’t “real” because the sun chariot isn’t real is not only a false equivalence fallacy and also another headcanon
 
Gilad_Hyperstar said:
His stuff regarding Percy VS Ares cerainly isn't. Ares was toying with Percy the entire time and only got serious when Percy stabbed him. The only reason Percy survived is because Kronos stopped him from attacking, leading Ares to retreat. It was made clear that as soon as Ares got serious, Percy would've been toast
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This too lol, Ares was not trying whatsoever in the fight
 
Gilad_Hyperstar said:
His stuff regarding Percy VS Ares cerainly isn't. Ares was toying with Percy the entire time and only got serious when Percy stabbed him. The only reason Percy survived is because Kronos stopped him from attacking, leading Ares to retreat. It was made clear that as soon as Ares got serious, Percy would've been toast
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I agree with that, but that doesn't matter since there still is no relativistic feat.
 
Gilad_Hyperstar said:
His stuff regarding Percy VS Ares cerainly isn't. Ares was toying with Percy the entire time and only got serious when Percy stabbed him. The only reason Percy survived is because Kronos stopped him from attacking, leading Ares to retreat. It was made clear that as soon as Ares got serious, Percy would've been toast
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Yes and it would be impossible for that to happen to a relativistic character when the enemy is below mach 81. And anyways, with that logic, put them at MFTL+ or infinite if he was just toying with him.

Mazdoesstuff said:
And assuming that the Greek stars aren’t “real” because the sun chariot isn’t real is not only a false equivalence fallacy and also another headcanon
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THEY ARE BOTH STARS! There is no false equivalence. And we're even told they're seperate, idk what you mean. Even if we weren't, we see how constelations are made, and it's not by creating scientific stars.

Mazdoesstuff said:
Right here is why I disagree. There’s literally no anti feats for the gods, and nothing proves Typhon can’t go above High 6-A. And there’s also the logic of assuming that the star creation feats are a form of reality manipulation or matter manipulation (which is a headcanon with no evidence lol)
Click to expand...
I've moved on from that. I never said the 6A was an anti-feat, I said that the star feats are invalid, but the 6A feats are not. Also, I suggested reality manipulation when the thread first started, there's no need to keep bringing it up.

Armorchompy said:
but 2 is very explicit, so that does make sense.
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Problem is that Greek stars are different from scientific ones, and when Artemis "put someone in the stars", she only brightened up existing stars.
 
Gilad_Hyperstar said:
Hera isn't actually a supernova, but a god showing his true form basically negates durability as it kills any mortal regardless of how durable they are (monsters are included in it as well here)
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Yeah we should add that to their ability list.
 
Cryo123 said:
Yes and it would be impossible for that to happen to a relativistic character when the enemy is below mach 81. And anyways, with that logic, put them at MFTL+ or infinite if he was just toying with him.
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He was literally not even trying the entire time. Also you realize PIS exists right? Such things happen in fiction
Cryo123 said:
THEY ARE BOTH STARS! There is no false equivalence. And we're even told they're seperate, idk what you mean. Even if we weren't, we see how constelations are made, and it's not by creating scientific stars.
Click to expand...
The stars are real stars. You have no evidence for claiming otherwise, and the other constellations, which also exist and were created by the Olympian Gods in the Greek myths, are real stars as well. Regardless of the way the Gods created these stars, they are real because science is real in this verse too and we know they are real stars
Cryo123 said:
I've moved on from that. I never said the 6A was an anti-feat, I said that the star feats are invalid, but the 6A feats are not. Also, I suggested reality manipulation when the thread first started, there's no need to keep bringing it up.
Click to expand...
You have nothing going for your claims. Until then it remains headcanon
Cryo123 said:
Problem is that Greek stars are different from scientific ones, and when Artemis "put someone in the stars", she only brightened up existing stars.
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How are they different when the Kane Chronicles go out of its way to establish both science and magic are true?
 
Gilad_Hyperstar said:
The stars didn't exists before then. She literally created these
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Prove it when the quote says she brightened them not created.
Cryo123 said:
Artemis stood, said a kind of blessing, breathed into her cupped hand and released the silver dust to the sky. It flew up, sparkling, and vanished. For a moment I didn't see anything different. Then Annabeth gasped. Looking up in the sky, I saw that the stars were brighter now. They made a pattern I had never noticed before?a gleaming constellation that looked a lot like a girl's figure?a girl with a bow, running across the sky. "Let the world honor you, my Huntress," Artemis said. "Live forever in the stars." Source: The Titan's Curse
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These stars didn't exist before hand, the stars got brighter because they appeared for the first time.

Besides, Artemis' feat is not the only constellation feat, as the Gods created many more constellation in the past
 
“The stars were brighter now. They made a pattern I had never seen before”

She did not create new stars, she brightened them so a new constellation would be seen. That’s explicitly what is being said.

Assuming she literally created them is unfounded unless there’s a counter quote saying she did.
 
Gilad_Hyperstar said:
He was literally not even trying the entire time. Also you realize PIS exists right? Such things happen in fiction
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Yeah, but even then, it is there only real reaction feat

Gilad_Hyperstar said:
The stars didn't exists before then. She literally created these
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That's actually a flat out lie, the quote tells us as much.
Gilad_Hyperstar said:
The stars are real stars. You have no evidence for claiming otherwise, and the other constellations, which also exist and were created by the Olympian Gods in the Greek myths, are real stars as well. Regardless of the way the Gods created these stars, they are real because science is real in this verse too and we know they are real stars
Click to expand...
Magic and science are both true, but also shown to be seperate factors. They are not directly linked to eachother. There are multiple example of this. If you're an athiest, then when you die, you enter true nothingness, and if you're Christian you go to heaven or Hell. Both of these things after death exist, but are not congruent to eachother. The objects in the sky are the manifestation of how the Greeks themselves viewed stars, which is seperate from real stars.

Gilad_Hyperstar said:
How are they different when the Kane Chronicles go out of its way to establish both science and magic are true?
Click to expand...
Because when the Sun Chariot Crashed, the Sun didn't go out or get affected, but when Apophis swallowed Ra's boat, the Sun does go out even though there are two Suns in the sky. Kane Chronicals enforces a premise or idea that affects the verse, but still has its own rules.
Gilad_Hyperstar said:
These stars didn't exist before hand, the stars got brighter because they appeared for the first time.
Click to expand...
What are you on rn? It literally says that stars that already existed brightened to form a Pattern that Percy hadn't noticed. Not one that didn't exist.
 
Cryo123 said:
Yeah, but even then, it is there only real reaction feat
Click to expand...
Still PIS, still nothing says Percy scales to Ares in any way
Cryo123 said:
Magic and science are both true, but also shown to be seperate factors. They are not directly linked to eachother. There are multiple example of this. If you're an athiest, then when you die, you enter true nothingness, and if you're Christian you go to heaven or Hell. Both of these things after death exist, but are not congruent to eachother. The objects in the sky are the manifestation of how the Greeks themselves viewed stars, which is seperate from real stars.
Click to expand...
No it isn't. This is false equivalence. The realm of the dead is purely magical and does not exists in science, unlike the constellations which are actual stars and exists both scientifically and in the myth, and since we know that the stars in the previous constellations are real, then the Gods created actual stars.
Cryo123 said:
Because when the Sun Chariot Crashed, the Sun didn't go out or get affected, but when Apophis swallowed Ra's boat, the Sun does go out even though there are two Suns in the sky.
Click to expand...
Apophis never swallowed the boat, it swallowed Ra (which was in Zia's body at the time). The Sun boat have nothing to do with it so you're basing your argument on something that is explicably false.

The Sun Chariot isn't the sun. We discussed this. That still doesn't mean anything regarding the constellaions not being stars
 
StekFence said:
How does brightening create a whole new constellation? It would just mean the individual stars got a new magnitude
Click to expand...
Because it doesn't. If the stars were already there, it means that the constellation was also always there, but not visable, which is clearly not the case, as Artemis only created the constellation later
 
Gilad_Hyperstar said:
The Sun Chariot isn't the sun. We discussed this.
Click to expand...
And the Greek stars are not THE stars.

Gilad_Hyperstar said:
Because it doesn't. If the stars were already there, it means that the constellation was also always there, but not visable, which is clearly not the case, as Artemis only created the constellation later
Click to expand...
They are stated to be there before, Percy just didn't notice the pattern.

Gilad_Hyperstar said:
Apophis never swallowed the boat, it swallowed Ra (which was in Zia's body at the time). The Sun boat have nothing to do with it so you're basing your argument on something that is explicably false.
Click to expand...
I'm sorry I made that mistake, but whether it's Ra or his boat it serves the same purpose.

Gilad_Hyperstar said:
No it isn't. This is false equivalence. The realm of the dead is purely magical and does not exists in science, unlike the constellations which are actual stars and exists both scientifically and in the myth, and since we know that the stars in the previous constellations are real, then the Gods created actual stars.
Click to expand...
That's why I specifically brought up people who only take the current scientific information on death as an example. Both the scientific and religious death are real, and are seperate from eachother. And it doesn't matter because the two types of stars are stated to be different regardless. I don't need to make an analogy to prove my point when it's right there.

Gilad_Hyperstar said:
Still PIS, still nothing says Percy scales to Ares in any way
Click to expand...
Hate to say it, but when your only feat is while casual, being tagged by a 12 year old Percy, it's not PIS.

Gilad_Hyperstar said:
Because it doesn't. If the stars were already there, it means that the constellation was also always there, but not visable, which is clearly not the case, as Artemis only created the constellation later
Click to expand...
Bro the quote itself is telling you you're wrong!!!!!!!!!
 
Cryo123 said:
And the Greek stars are not THE stars.
Click to expand...
You got proof for that?
Cryo123 said:
They are stated to be there before, Percy just didn't notice the pattern.
Click to expand...
Except the constellation literally couldn't be there before because if it would then Artemis wouldn't been able to create it. You can't create something that already exists, so this sentence contradicts Artemis' feat. Artemis literally said she will create a constellation to honor Zoe's death, but if the stars were already there, it means it already exists but simply isn't visible to Percy's eyes, which means Artemis didn't actually created it, which again, is false since the book literally said she created it

So the two options are:

1) Constellation already exists and Artemis only brightened the stars, making Artemis the creator of the constelllation false

2) Artemis made the actual stars and they didn't exists before, making Percy's sentence false

Considering Artemis literally stated she made the constellation, there's no option but for Percy's sentence to be false
Cryo123 said:
I'm sorry I made that mistake, but whether it's Ra or his boat it serves the same purpose.
Click to expand...
Not it doesn't, because the boat isn't Ra. It's just his vehicle and how he transports through the sky
Cryo123 said:
That's why I specifically brought up people who only take the current scientific information on death as an example. Both the scientific and religious death are real, and are seperate from eachother. And it doesn't matter because the two types of stars are stated to be different regardless. I don't need to make an analogy to prove my point when it's right there.
Click to expand...
The Afterlife isn't real regardless, so still false equivalence
Cryo123 said:
Hate to say it, but when your only feat is while casual, being tagged by a 12 year old Percy, it's not PIS.
Click to expand...
It still is PIS. Hw was never serious the entire match, and if you try to scale Percy to Ares I have nothing else to say to you
Cryo123 said:
Bro the quote itself is telling you you're wrong!!!!!!!!!
Click to expand...
Still doesn't change the argument. If it only brightened already existing stars, then that means this constellation has existed BEFORE Artemis even made it, which is even more false since the story explicably say she made it. Not my problem you're getting mad though
 
Gilad_Hyperstar said:
Not my problem you're getting mad though
Click to expand...
Yeah I am kind of pissed off ngl. I've shown you quotes, pointed out the illogicity of the other star feats, quoted one of our experts agreeing with my sentiment, and come up with a more consistent rating, and yet you use the same frail arguments "But [thing that doesn't matter or has already been disproven]."

It's like moving a glacier at this point.

I'll be back to disprove your points again, even though it won't change anything, but I have irl stuff to do before that.
 
When your arguments relies on unproven headcanon and false equivalence, then yeah I will call you out for it.

This is nothing personal against you, this is just how it is.

Regardless, while I saw the implication of that statement, this is wrong because if Artemis only brightened already existing stars, she didn't actually created the constellation, as even if it wasn't visible according to your interpertation, it still exists, thus contradicting her statement that she created the constellation to honor Zoë's death

The other interpertation is that Artemis did created the stars and thus the constellation, which is also why the stars got brighter as they came to existence. That may contradict what Percy is saying later, but I'm way more inclined to believe that it is Percy who is wrong rather than Artemis since she literally made the constellation, as well as that the Gods are known to do such things in the past, so chances are that she did actually made the constellation
 
Kingofwolves999 said:
“The stars were brighter now. They made a pattern I had never seen before”

She did not create new stars, she brightened them so a new constellation would be seen. That’s explicitly what is being said.

Assuming she literally created them is unfounded unless there’s a counter quote saying she did.
Click to expand...
Provide quote that doesn’t necessarily disprove her creating stars
Quote is just confusing without context
Doesnt apply any context
Click to expand...

Guess i should just blindly agree with such undeniable evidence
 
Kingofwolves999 said:
What part of the rest of that quote supports the idea that she created the stars themselves and DIDN’T just brighten them?
Click to expand...
Because she literally stated she created the constellation? If she just brightened the stars, it means that the constellation already existed before she "created" it, which makes no sense. Even if the stars were invisible before, they still exists and thus she didn't created anything, which everything in contexts argues against
 
Gilad_Hyperstar said:
Because she literally stated she created the constellation? If she just brightened the stars, it means that the constellation already existed before she "created" it, which makes no sense. Even if the stars were invisible before, they still exists and thus she didn't created anything, which everything in contexts argues against
Click to expand...
Show me the part of that quote that says she created the constellation.

Also I don’t understand how you guys can say, with such conviction, that she did something as outlandish as creating a scientifically accurate Star, with no evidence to support it.

The burden of proof is to prove she created the stars. You can’t just say “cause she did” in response to a clear quote saying she didn’t, then misinterpret the quote as “brighten = made” because Percy didn’t notice it before.

You guys then go on to say Percy is unreliable? In what way? Did Artemis ever say she created the stars? Did ANYONE say they were created? Why is he unreliable now? He’s describing what he’s seeing, and from my understanding that’s the only perspective on the subject. Where is the secondary source that disproves what Percy is seeing?
 
Jibz said:
way to completely misinterpret my entire point
Click to expand...
The fact you don’t even know the context of that scene from the Titan’s Curse, especially when the entire quote has been said like 3 times in this thread and I was paraphrasing the part that everyone was discussing, is not my burden. The full quote is higher up and I’m certain you can find the context of the scene very easily.
 
Kingofwolves999 said:
The fact you don’t even know the context of that scene from the Titan’s Curse, especially when the entire quote has been said like 3 times in this thread and I was paraphrasing the part that everyone was discussing, is not my burden. The full quote is higher up and I’m certain you can find the context of the scene very easily.
Click to expand...
Artemis literally said that she made the constellation in that same chapter. Are you ignoring that on purpose?
 
Gilad_Hyperstar said:
Artemis literally said that she made the constellation in that same chapter. Are you ignoring that on purpose?
Click to expand...
post the quote. I’ve been asking you this like 3 times now and you just keep saying she did this without showing anything.

When you post the quote, I will then show you how that doesn’t help your argument anyway. But the quote first.
 
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