Dropping the Riordanverse Tier by smiting it with Zeus' Lightning Bolt

[Mazdoesstuff]

And LS. Parrying requires you to have the LS to stop the charge of the opponent and resist their push. Considering Jason was able to do it, then yeah he scales. At least partially. Oh and Jason defeated Krios by himself (and meanwhile Percy defeated Hyperion)

Yup. No weapons and no magic, Jason could beat up Krios and kill him. Further proving how demigods magic scales to their physicals

 

[WIngs_Of_Despair]

Egyptian spells =/= Demigods Magic. For a proof, when Carter's spell first hit Percy, the energy buzzed around not knowing what to do with him, suggesting his magic is different than the Magician's spells

Also, the combat Avatars are Egyptian spells relating to their gods

Percy has resistance to magic in the first place. There are few fundamental differences between the two types of magic, and certainly no reason why one would scale to physicals and the other doesn't.

That's not how combat avatars work. Any combat mage can make use of them. They're shells made of magic to amplify your physical strength. Even gods use them, which they wouldn't do if magic power was the same as striking strength.

 

[AnonymousBlank]

Percy tanks Thalia’s lightning bolt in Titan’s Curse, I think a Luke still tired from holding the sky also gets hit by Thalia’s lightning bolt, a third of the Giants tank Jason’s lightning bolts and both he and/or Percy fight them in the same fight they get hit with the lightning, Percy shattered the glacier by stabbing the ground, Percy survives St. Helens eruption, Jason and Enceladus take IVLIVS destruction point blank and walk it off, Jason killed Krios with his bare hands, a bunch of demigods like Reyna, Piper and Frank physically overpower or affect Giants etc etc. The feats of magic blatantly scale to their physical stats.

Bringing up the magicians’ combat avatars is irrelevant as the magicians themselves are not only not demigods who are superhuman without any training, they also scale vastly below the likes of the Seven and Carter (one of the stronger magicians) struggles to even keep up with casual Percy.

 

[Mazdoesstuff]

Percy has resistance to magic in the first place. There are few fundamental differences between the two types of magic, and certainly no reason why one would scale to physicals and the other doesn't.

That's not how combat avatars work. Any combat mage can make use of them. They're shells made of magic to amplify your physical strength. Even gods use them, which they wouldn't do if magic power was the same as striking strength.

Because the magic in the Kane Chronicles functions totally differently than in PJO?? You’re literally just making a false equivalency considering the physicals/magic portrayal in PJO is much different

 

[InfiniteSped]

Frank beating a giant is a huge anti-feat when a bear and an elephant were overpowering the guy, and Frank even specifies their weight as the reason he can throw the giant around.

 

[Mazdoesstuff]

Frank beating a giant is a huge anti-feat when a bear and an elephant were overpowering the guy, and Frank even specifies their weight as the reason he can throw the giant around.

Fax bro let’s downgrade every demigod to 9-C

 

[InfiniteSped]

They do feel like 9-C most of the time to be honest.

 

[AnonymousBlank]

Frank beating a giant is a huge anti-feat when a bear and an elephant were overpowering the guy, and Frank even specifies their weight as the reason he can throw the giant around.

Frank and Hazel vs Alcyoneus in general makes no sense when Alcyoneus is 40 ft tall yet the bear or elephant can press him. Just by sheer size alone, those animals wouldn’t be able to do much to him yet they do so their size and weight doesn’t matter much.

 

[Mazdoesstuff]

They do feel like 9-C most of the time to be honest.

Troll

 

[InfiniteSped]

Dude's blood is made of helium.

 

[WIngs_Of_Despair]

Jason do manage to parry Porphyrion's strike, albeit barely. Percy did the same with him later.

Frank was physically beating Alchyoneus. Percy killed Polybotes by Smashing Terminus' head on him

Barely parrying a strike of someone you acknowledge as way stronger would make you downscale. Which isn't helpful when you're claiming their strikes are equal to the powers that are shown to harm them easily and thus don't downscale. I'll need to reread the Frank fight, but we already have him physically above the other demigods. Are you actually claiming that Terminus getting smashed on his head killed him because of AP? And not the whole god+hero thing?

 

[WIngs_Of_Despair]

Bringing up the magicians’ combat avatars is irrelevant as the magicians themselves are not only not demigods who are superhuman without any training, they also scale vastly below the likes of the Seven and Carter (one of the stronger magicians) struggles to even keep up with casual Percy.

"Casual" Percy who was water amped and thought Carter was a monster sent to attack the camp. Sure he wasn't using all out life and death type stuff, but this isn't some casual spar either.

 

[Mazdoesstuff]

I’m gonna split Percy’s profile in 4 keys: First 2 books, Titan’s Curse, Labryinth/Last Olympian, and Heroes of Olympus

Tier predictions:

| At least High 8-C (Can overpower the Minotaur and rip out its horns) | At least Low 7-B (Superior to Nico Di Angelo, who created a fissure down to the Underworld) | 7-B (Can harm those who can harm him), possibly High 6-B with the Curse of Achilles (Capable of overpowering Hades, who can vaporize oceans. Can clash and fight on par with Kronos) | 7-A (Equal in power to Jason, who created a maelstrom)

 

[Mazdoesstuff]

I also calced the destruction of Clarisse’s war ship at 8-B (36 tons). Could be an upgrade for the low tier demigods

 

[WIngs_Of_Despair]

Because the magic in the Kane Chronicles functions totally differently than in PJO?? You’re literally just making a false equivalency considering the physicals/magic portrayal in PJO is much different

It doesn't. Not in any regard that would matter here, anyway. Greeks mess with Egyptian stuff all the time (the Mist is part of the Duat for example, and we have some greek mages that specialize in manipulating the Mist) and don't even recognize they're interacting with another pantheon's cosmology. So the difference is unlikely to be that fundamental. The portrayals are also not different in this regard. One is just more explicit because of combat avatars. But magic powers are essentially always portrayed as being significantly above something like a punch or kick. What we should be doing is looking for actual durability feats or good AP feats for those they fight. For example, if we had an AP feat for the giants we could just scale the durability of people who took hits from them.

 

[Mazdoesstuff]

It doesn't. Not in any regard that would matter here, anyway. Greeks mess with Egyptian stuff all the time (the Mist is part of the Duat for example, and we have some greek mages that specialize in manipulating the Mist) and don't even recognize they're interacting with another pantheon's cosmology. So the difference is unlikely to be that fundamental. The portrayals are also not different in this regard. One is just more explicit because of combat avatars. But magic powers are essentially always portrayed as being significantly above something like a punch or kick. What we should be doing is looking for actual durability feats or good AP feats for those they fight. For example, if we had an AP feat for the giants we could just scale the durability of people who took hits from them.

Not really necessary. It’s simple;

Demigod has a 7-C magic attack

Giant tanks 7-C magic attack

Demigod clashes with giant, making him 7-C

 

[WIngs_Of_Despair]

I’m gonna split Percy’s profile in 4 keys: First 2 books, Titan’s Curse, Labryinth/Last Olympian, and Heroes of Olympus

Tier predictions:

| At least High 8-C (Can overpower the Minotaur and rip out its horns) | At least Low 7-B (Superior to Nico Di Angelo, who created a fissure down to the Underworld) | 7-B (Can harm those who can harm him), possibly High 6-B with the Curse of Achilles (Capable of overpowering Hades, who can vaporize oceans. Can clash and fight on par with Kronos) | 7-A (Equal in power to Jason, who created a maelstrom)

Hard no to any tier 6 rating based on those justifications. Didn't we just go over why it's wrong to scale demigods to full power gods? Also, he fought Kronos in Luke's body, there's a big difference between that and fighting a Kronos who isn't basically a bunch of dust being held together by a human-shaped suit.

 

[GraveDigger84]

Seems good, not too sure about Percy scaling to Hades though. Wouldn't that create problems since Annabeth was capable of blocking a strike from Kronos/Luke who's at CoA Percy's level or higher?

I’m gonna split Percy’s profile in 4 keys: First 2 books, Titan’s Curse, Labryinth/Last Olympian, and Heroes of Olympus

Tier predictions:

| At least High 8-C (Can overpower the Minotaur and rip out its horns) | At least Low 7-B (Superior to Nico Di Angelo, who created a fissure down to the Underworld) | 7-B (Can harm those who can harm him), possibly High 6-B with the Curse of Achilles (Capable of overpowering Hades, who can vaporize oceans. Can clash and fight on par with Kronos) | 7-A (Equal in power to Jason, who created a maelstrom)

 

[Mazdoesstuff]

Seems good, not too sure about Percy scaling to Hades though. Wouldn't that create problems since Annabeth was capable of blocking a strike from Kronos/Luke who's at CoA Percy's level or higher?

Wasn’t Annabeth’s arm shattered once Kronos/Luke went all out?

 

[GraveDigger84]

Wasn’t Annabeth’s arm shattered once Kronos/Luke went all out?

Kronos whirled to face her and slashed with Backbiter, but somehow Annabeth caught the strike on
her dagger hilt. It was a move only the quickest and most skilled knife fighter could've managed. Don't
ask me where she found the strength, but she stepped in closer for leverage, their blades crossed, and for a
moment she stood face-to-face with the Titan lord, holding him at a standstill.
"Luke," she said, gritting her teeth, "I understand now. You have to trust me."
Kronos roared in outrage. "Luke Castellan is dead! His body will burn away as I assume my true
form!"
I tried to move, but my body was frozen again. How could Annabeth, battered and half dead with
exhaustion, have the strength to fight a Titan like Kronos?
Kronos pushed against her, trying to dislodge his blade, but she held him in check, her arms trembling
as he forced his sword down toward her neck.

I don't think so

 

[WIngs_Of_Despair]

Not really necessary. It’s simple;

Demigod has a 7-C magic attack

Giant tanks 7-C magic attack

Demigod clashes with giant, making him 7-C

Clashing with someone doesn't scale you to their durability though. You would need to prove 7-c striking for the Giant in this scenario. If you could do that I would be fine just scaling them to the striking strength of the Giants (when appropriate. Most of the 7 are quite a bit weaker than the more relevant Giants and I really don't want another Annabeth vs Kronos moment).

 

[GraveDigger84]

Also, was CoA ever stated to increase strength? Since Annabeth is shown in the quote I sent to be in the same ballpark as CoA Luke and Percy, so if it was never stated we shouldn't assume it does.

 

[WIngs_Of_Despair]

Wasn’t Annabeth’s arm shattered once Kronos/Luke went all out?

She couldn't hold her knife and Percy said her arm was bent at an unusual angle. He doesn't use the word “broken” but I think it's pretty clear.

LIES!” Kronos pushed again, and this time Annabeth lost her balance. With his free hand, Kronos struck her face, and she slid backward.
I summoned all my will. I managed to rise, but it was like holding the weight of the sky again.
Kronos loomed over Annabeth, his sword raised.
Blood trickled from the corner of her mouth. She croaked, “Family, Luke. You promised.”
I took a painful step forward. Grover was back on his feet, over by the throne of Hera, but he seemed to be struggling to move as well. Before either of us could get anywhere close to Annabeth, Kronos staggered.
He stared at the knife in Annabeth's hand, the blood on her face. “Promise.”
Then he gasped like he couldn't get air. “Annabeth . . .” But it wasn't the Titan's voice. It was Luke's. He stumbled forward like he couldn't control his own body. “You're bleeding. . . .”
“My knife.” Annabeth tried to raise her dagger, but it clattered out of her hand. Her arm was bent at a funny angle. She looked at me, imploring, “Percy, please . . .”

 

[Mazdoesstuff]

She couldn't hold her knife and Percy said her arm was bent at an unusual angle. He doesn't use the word “broken” but I think it's pretty clear.

Yeah I think Annabeth holding back Kronos shouldn’t be used for scaling, since when he got serious he could easily break her arm with a push

 

[Mazdoesstuff]

Clashing with someone doesn't scale you to their durability though. You would need to prove 7-c striking for the Giant in this scenario. If you could do that I would be fine just scaling them to the striking strength of the Giants (when appropriate. Most of the 7 are quite a bit weaker than the more relevant Giants and I really don't want another Annabeth vs Kronos moment).

Well the giants can injure Percy with physical strikes, which gives them 7-B striking strength. And some of the demigods and etc can also clash with them, making them 7-B physically

 

[Mazdoesstuff]

At most, I can see Annabeth heavily downscaling from Kronos. So if she had a key for Last Olympian, it would be “At most 7-B (Can hold back a strike from a casual Kronos, although her arm snapped once he went all out)

 

[GraveDigger84]

Yeah I think Annabeth holding back Kronos shouldn’t be used for scaling, since when he got serious he could easily break her arm with a push

Annabeth blocked his strike and held him at a standstill as he kept pushing. The standstill ended when she lost balance. Plus, the broken arm could be due to the slap across the throne room since it was never mentioned while she was holding Luke back

 

[WIngs_Of_Despair]

Well the giants can injure Percy with physical strikes, which gives them 7-B striking strength. And some of the demigods and etc can also clash with them, making them 7-B physically

I'm fine with this in concept. Assuming the clashes in question actually indicate somewhat comparable strength, so we need to examine them case by case. I'm not against tier 7 demigods in concept, just the idea of automatically scaling any magic feat to physicals simply for the sake of it was flawed to me.

 

[WIngs_Of_Despair]

Annabeth blocked his strike and held him at a standstill as he kept pushing. The standstill ended when she lost balance. Plus, the broken arm could be due to the slap across the throne room since it was never mentioned while she was holding Luke back

A standstill where she herself said Luke was holding back Kronos, and that she was losing even then. And when Kronos got mad he immediately broke her guard with a single push and broke her arm in the process. Her losing balance was from him pushing her, he knocked her off balance via overpowering her. The broken arm isn't from getting hit by him because Percy specifies that he smacked her in the face.

 

[WIngs_Of_Despair]

I’m gonna split Percy’s profile in 4 keys: First 2 books, Titan’s Curse, Labryinth/Last Olympian, and Heroes of Olympus

Tier predictions:

| At least High 8-C (Can overpower the Minotaur and rip out its horns) | At least Low 7-B (Superior to Nico Di Angelo, who created a fissure down to the Underworld) | 7-B (Can harm those who can harm him), possibly High 6-B with the Curse of Achilles (Capable of overpowering Hades, who can vaporize oceans. Can clash and fight on par with Kronos) | 7-A (Equal in power to Jason, who created a maelstrom)

Actually, why is the Minotaur High 8-C? I don't see any calcs for him anywhere and the justification on the page is quite lacking. Do we actually have anything to justify High 8-C?

 

[Mazdoesstuff]

Actually, why is the Minotaur High 8-C? I don't see any calcs for him anywhere and the justification on the page is quite lacking. Do we actually have anything to justify High 8-C?

Pretty sure the Minotaur scales above the Lydian Drakon, which is High 8-C via sheer size

 

[WIngs_Of_Despair]

Pretty sure the Minotaur scales above the Lydian Drakon, which is High 8-C via sheer size

That seems a bit faulty. If for no other reason than I don't think that relationship was ever stated. I'm gonna see if I can find anything the minotaur has done that we can get a good value off of.

 

[IdiosyncraticLawyer]

Are we deadass trying to say the Demigods can physically contend with Zeus? With Poseidon?

Weren’t some of the statements in this thread about making the gods star to galaxy level and scaling it to their physicals? Are we trying to imply the plan was Star level Piper McLean or something?

I already got a consensus on deeming anything Tier 4 or Tier 3 invalid. The highest deity in the Riordanverse is Chaos, who's Low 2-C for having created the universe.

 

[GraveDigger84]

That seems a bit faulty. If for no other reason than I don't think that relationship was ever stated. I'm gonna see if I can find anything the minotaur has done that we can get a good value off of.

As if on cue, the bullman bellowed in rage. He picked up Gabe's Camaro by the torn roof, the chassis creaking and groaning. He raised the car over his head an d threw it down the road. It slammed into the wet asphalt and skidded in a shower of sparks for about half a mile before coming to a stop. The gas tank exploded.

As soon as he saw me circling overhead (or sniffed me, more likely, since his eyesight was bad), he bellowed and picked up a white limousine. "Blackjack, dive!" I yelled. What? The pegasus asked. No way could he . . . Holy horse feed! We were at least a hundred feet up, but the limo came sailing toward us, flipping fender over fender like a two-ton boomerang. Annabeth and Porkpie swerved madly to the left, while Blackjack tucked in his wings and plunged. The limo sailed over my head, missing by maybe two inches. It cleared the suspension lines of the bridge and fell toward the East River. Monsters jeered and shouted, and the Minotaur picked up another car.

"Hey, Beef Boy," I shouted back. "Didn't I kill you already?"
He pounded his fist into the hood of a Lexus, and it crumpled like aluminum foil.

Best feats I could find. Although I don't know if TLT Percy should scale. All he did was jump onto his head, hold on while the Minotaur tried to shake him off, ripped his horn off, and stabbed him with it. Never actually physically matched him

 

[Mazdoesstuff]

Best feats I could find. Although I don't know if TLT Percy should scale. All he did was jump onto his head, hold on while the Minotaur tried to shake him off, ripped his horn off, and stabbed him with it. Never actually physically matched him

Ripping off his horn should make him scale to my knowledge

 

[Testarossa002]

Where does Enceladus scale to?
Currently rereading and found out he says his brothers are 10 times stronger than him
Wouldn't that automatically make him 10x weaker than the nearest weakest giant?

 

[Mazdoesstuff]

Where does Enceladus scale to?
Currently rereading and found out he says his brothers are 10 times stronger than him
Wouldn't that automatically make him 10x weaker than the nearest weakest giant?

Enceladus has his own 7-C+ feat of shaking Mount Diablo, but he scales to 7-B for injuring Jason

Meaning that all of the giants would scale to 7-B+ I assume

 

[Gilad_Hyperstar]

Enceladus has his own 7-C+ feat of shaking Mount Diablo, but he scales to 7-B for injuring Jason

Enceladus in particular have fire breathing so I don't remember if he actually physically fought Jason

 

[AnonymousBlank]

Nah, they physically fought. Enceladus was using a spear and eventually snapped IVLIVS when Jason clashed with him.

 

[Gilad_Hyperstar]

Nah, they physically fought. Enceladus was using a spear and eventually snapped IVLIVS when Jason clashed with him.

Ok then. My memory of the Lost Hero is a bit fuzzy