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That's still disrespectful, you know?
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Dragonball specific powers>hax symposium attempt 2
- Thread starter ArmBill
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- dragon ball
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Hopefully, yes
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Presumably not abilities they haven’t shown Resistance to, just the ones in the OP.
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Yeah... you clearly
In logic and mathematics, proof by example (sometimes known as inappropriate generalization) is a logical fallacy whereby the validity of a statement is illustrated through one or more examples or cases—rather than a full-fledged proof.
Which is exactly what you are doing. You are using multiple examples of hax not working due to being overpowered, to create a rule. You saying there are consistent examples of it doesn't make it any less fallacious.
Unless there is a direct statement confirming this, we can never assume simply scaling above someone in dragon ball gives you resistance to the hax.
Which is why the OP has listed certain specific hax, and not all hax within dragon ball.
Why would I trust or care about if random people on discord think I'm using a fallacy incorrectly? Unless they give substantiation I can't refute, I could care less about what they say.
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No. Only the specific hax listed in the OP.
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I know they will get resistances in the op but i meant it more like them getting ability to get resistance in the middle of vs match if they are stronger then their opponent just like how it was for Megami Tensei.
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Not every character, just the characters that are stronger than The ones who resisted hax via pure raw strength/ki.
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Nah, nope. If they lack Resistance to a certain ability they’re getting affected.
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Damn, I searched up a bit and looks like that "dwag" is a slang that means "friend".
LMO Sorry guys, for this dumb show, looks like just had brainfart with this lol.
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Ok then another question. Will people with higher power then them be able to affect them in a vs match even if they have hax resistance?
Stefano4444
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I personally disagree, resistances via raw strength/power should remain valid, just like resistances via special physiology.
And rather than a weakness, this cases should be treated as just limitations of those haxes, NLF isn't limited to just stats.
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Stefano4444
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Yes, since characters with higher level of power would be too strong for the resistances to counter.
Example Zeno who can erase Gods of Destruction, who should have resistance to Existence Erasure via scaling.
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- Thread starter
- #175
@null
-it literally does beget that its based on power. For one Toppo said he could erased Freiza of he wanted, after he resisted it. Plus Toppo powers up his hakai with more energy.
-He was moving through time skip, wdym.
-They can bypass people's absorption is what I mean. Like their ki, and attacks.
-But he still blocked the stone spit with ki.
@glass
- I meant to say power, my bad.. The point is its still a resistance, which should be noted
- In like all the shenron examples we can see that people that are much stronger have probable or out right intent to be affected.
- In the video we see Vegeta power up to negate the energy balls.
- How would that be a limited resistance for time stop?
-https://youtu.be/8aN5MlObGK8
I did say he resisted via his barrier
- It still means his ki cant be affected by the spit though.
-The adaption is they grow stronger to be accustomed to it.
-it literally does beget that its based on power. For one Toppo said he could erased Freiza of he wanted, after he resisted it. Plus Toppo powers up his hakai with more energy.
-He was moving through time skip, wdym.
-They can bypass people's absorption is what I mean. Like their ki, and attacks.
-But he still blocked the stone spit with ki.
@glass
- I meant to say power, my bad.. The point is its still a resistance, which should be noted
- In like all the shenron examples we can see that people that are much stronger have probable or out right intent to be affected.
- In the video we see Vegeta power up to negate the energy balls.
- How would that be a limited resistance for time stop?
-https://youtu.be/8aN5MlObGK8
I did say he resisted via his barrier
- It still means his ki cant be affected by the spit though.
-The adaption is they grow stronger to be accustomed to it.
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- Thread starter
- #178
Atleast everyone stronger than the character that have shown to negate abilities with power. I wouldn't mind if it's more broad since these abilities scale to power a good amount of the time.
Nullflowerblush
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Question.
Would Dyspo get Resistance to Time Manipulation because he is leagues above Super Saiyan Blue Goku from the Tournament of Destroyers? Remember, now, Dyspo was getting ragdolled by Hit after he used Time-Skip in the Tournament of Power.
Do we give Ribrianne Resistance to Existence Erasure, since she scales above the same Goku who took a Hakai to the face from Golden Frieza while off-guard and was only left strained? Or, what about Android 17's barriers? Super Saiyan 2 Kefla?
Do we give Gohan Resistance to Absorption because he was infinitely superior to Super Buu? Take into consideration the fact that both Gohan and Gotenks were successfully assimilated by Buu.
Do we just give everybody from the Namek Saga onward Resistance to Gravity Manipulation?
Would everybody on Beerus' level get Resistance to Toon Force?
Do Gohan and Krillin get Resistance to Telekinesis because they are more powerful than Nappa?
Please, do not leave me in the dark like this.
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- Thread starter
- #180
Dyspo was shown moving in the time skip. Hit just outsmarted him with feints. Plus Hit can improve the potency anyways.
Yes
With a Ki barrier, yes
Yes, besides the Toonforce. We don't know why he resisted.
I'm not trying to
Nullflowerblush
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no, no, show me
Nullflowerblush
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Where he gets punched???
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- Thread starter
- #185
Yes. He is shown moving and reacting in it. He also mentioned how it was a time skip.
@3:38
Here's another example if you're still not convinced.
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Nullflowerblush
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this is silly
Are you understanding this?
what?
Yes, he knows how his ability works and what its name is. Dyspo takes notice of Hit's subtle muscle moves as he prepares the Time-Skip and acts before Hit can, allowing him to strike before Hit skips through time. He never strikes during a Time-Skip. The whole purpose of predicting his movements and when he is going to use the ability is to avoid him using the ability.
Are you understanding this?
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- Thread starter
- #187
That's was only part of the fight. We literally see him moving in it, while time skip is active. It's like saying even though we saw goku move in the time skip while it's active, that he just didn't. People who are affected are frozen in Hit's point of view. These characters were not.
Nullflowerblush
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This is not a real conversation.
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- #189
I'm responding to your points????
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@ArmBill again he still turned into candy and only retained his own strength, the fact he got affected at all would mean it’s a limited resistance at best. Especially since he still turned into a candy.
And we have far more showings of them flat out being affected, whether it’s being BFR’d revived or anything else that doesn’t involve death. That’s a weakness to the dragon balls not a resistance to the characters.
Ok, that still doesn’t tell me it’s a resistance feat when his attacks were affected prior. At best this is a weakness to Hakai.
because Hit still affected Goku when adapting his Time Skip to be better. Simple as that.
Again that’s not resistance, that’s blowing away the attack to not come into contact with you. Show me an instance where Trunks in canon was touched by the spit and was unfazed by the petrification just because he was stronger and I’ll concede on this point.
It’s not just growing stronger they literally train in the gravity chamber to adapt, nothing about ki or strength is needed, otherwise Gohan should’ve resisted the time chamber pulling him down despite being stronger than Saiyan Saga Goku at this point.
None of those 2 scans show him resisting timeskip, that looks more like hit using his phasing pocket dimension trick more than timeskip, otherwise we’d see him use his pressure points attack on Dyspo like he did with Goku and Vegeta.
And we have far more showings of them flat out being affected, whether it’s being BFR’d revived or anything else that doesn’t involve death. That’s a weakness to the dragon balls not a resistance to the characters.
Ok, that still doesn’t tell me it’s a resistance feat when his attacks were affected prior. At best this is a weakness to Hakai.
because Hit still affected Goku when adapting his Time Skip to be better. Simple as that.
Again that’s not resistance, that’s blowing away the attack to not come into contact with you. Show me an instance where Trunks in canon was touched by the spit and was unfazed by the petrification just because he was stronger and I’ll concede on this point.
It’s not just growing stronger they literally train in the gravity chamber to adapt, nothing about ki or strength is needed, otherwise Gohan should’ve resisted the time chamber pulling him down despite being stronger than Saiyan Saga Goku at this point.
None of those 2 scans show him resisting timeskip, that looks more like hit using his phasing pocket dimension trick more than timeskip, otherwise we’d see him use his pressure points attack on Dyspo like he did with Goku and Vegeta.
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why dont both of u reply to eachothers messages its hard to keep track of this
im suffering
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Good!why dont both of u reply to eachothers messages its hard to keep track of this
im suffering
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- Thread starter
- #193
I dont care how its classified. All that matters is he keeps mind and powers in a different state.
Like I said their affected cause of intent. Goku's intentions made it so he couldn't be teleported back.
They were affected cause those attacks weren't as strong at the time. The wiki states that a character with more power can get a resistance, if shown its via power. So it's not a weakness using the rules.
Yes, Hit made his Time skip more potent. It shows it overcome lesser layers of resistance. As Goku showed the resistance.
Resistance means to withstand something. Their ki is withstand that ability. It's objectively a resistance.
When was he pulled down, iirc he just walked in their no problem.
Dyspo literally said that he used the Time skip in that instance.
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- #194
Punished Venom LeSupremeKing1why dont both of u reply to eachothers messages its hard to keep track of this
im suffering
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This thread has been out for 3 minutes, and you guys are already starting the third page and you all are also arguing if dawg is an insult in a DB CRT and I don't even know what this thread is about.
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@ArmBill So limited resistance it is.
No once again, Goku just said he didn’t want to leave yet, and again if the dragon balls cannot affect him explain the numerous times people used the wishes on him in the series, if he resisted it then he shouldn’t have been revived or gained his power back in the Kid Buu fight.
where in the wiki does it say that? Because last time I checked we have an entire CRT on resistance scaling as a whole, one of them being you cannot scale resistances to others just because they’re stronger.
a resistance to a far weaker version of Hit’s timeskip, which btw isn’t the best form of time manipulation when other characters in fiction can stop time for much longer durations.
again that doesn’t really mean anything when it’s also a spit, which can be vaporized given it’s not a non corporeal thing that can phase through anything.
Gohan despite being stronger than Saiyan Saga Goku mentions how heavy his body has gotten, if it was only a power thing he shouldn’t have been affected, but it wasn’t, he trained his ass off to get used to the intense gravity.
ok? That doesn’t mean he resist timeskip, just because you know what an ability is doesn’t mean you resist the ability. By that logic me knowing Jedis use force mind hax means I resist it.
No once again, Goku just said he didn’t want to leave yet, and again if the dragon balls cannot affect him explain the numerous times people used the wishes on him in the series, if he resisted it then he shouldn’t have been revived or gained his power back in the Kid Buu fight.
where in the wiki does it say that? Because last time I checked we have an entire CRT on resistance scaling as a whole, one of them being you cannot scale resistances to others just because they’re stronger.
a resistance to a far weaker version of Hit’s timeskip, which btw isn’t the best form of time manipulation when other characters in fiction can stop time for much longer durations.
again that doesn’t really mean anything when it’s also a spit, which can be vaporized given it’s not a non corporeal thing that can phase through anything.
Gohan despite being stronger than Saiyan Saga Goku mentions how heavy his body has gotten, if it was only a power thing he shouldn’t have been affected, but it wasn’t, he trained his ass off to get used to the intense gravity.
ok? That doesn’t mean he resist timeskip, just because you know what an ability is doesn’t mean you resist the ability. By that logic me knowing Jedis use force mind hax means I resist it.
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- Thread starter
- #197
As long as it mentions they keep their mind and powers, I don't mind.
They asked the Dragon to bring Goku to earth, but he refused. The dragon literally went for his intention. Someone getting revived doesn't disprove it. When has someone just not wanted to be revived.
"Simply being stronger than a character with resistance does not mean the stronger character also has equal or higher resistance, unless the verse makes it explicitly clear that said resistance is based on the level of power".
Duration doesn't always mean Potency always. Plus it seems by your comment that you agree its a resistance. Plus this is about time stop anyways, not full manipulation.
Then Trunks shouldn’t have it on his page. But it's notable anyways, like putting it in the ki section. Goku profile say he can make barriers which can make absorption in effective. Do something akin to that.
Well anyone who goes into higher gravity would get heavier this dosen't disprove it all, especially since he didn't have trouble walking around.
Bruhhhhh they literally showed him moving in it and they call it time skip. What are you confused about? To be in time skip and not be frozen you would have to be resisting it.
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- #198
I mean, the premise is just what's in the opening.
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It disproves the characters resisting reality warping because the entire premise is the Dragon cannot do anything to the stronger characters. First off that’s not a resistance feat that’s a weakness of the dragon balls, second you clearly missed my entire point that Goku being revived or his power being restored contradicts them resisting reality warping from the dragon balls when we’ve seen them be affected numerous times.
the verse has not made that clear, none of your examples remotely explain that being stronger makes you resistant and I’ve given numerous anti feats showing that weaker characters with hax can affect stronger foes so that doesn’t work.
going off Hit’s timeskip it seems like a potency thing considering he timestopped Goku when he adapted his abilities.
Adding that in terms of his intelligence section or techniques I’d be down for that.
No it does disprove raw power making you resistant to gravity. Hell Kai backs my point up by showing a scene of Gohan struggling to get up when he gets to the training area.
If they resisted it Hit would be surprised like he was when both Jiren and Goku resisted his time skip. But he wasn’t in both times he used timeskip on Dyspo so it doesn’t really line up here.
the verse has not made that clear, none of your examples remotely explain that being stronger makes you resistant and I’ve given numerous anti feats showing that weaker characters with hax can affect stronger foes so that doesn’t work.
going off Hit’s timeskip it seems like a potency thing considering he timestopped Goku when he adapted his abilities.
Adding that in terms of his intelligence section or techniques I’d be down for that.
No it does disprove raw power making you resistant to gravity. Hell Kai backs my point up by showing a scene of Gohan struggling to get up when he gets to the training area.
If they resisted it Hit would be surprised like he was when both Jiren and Goku resisted his time skip. But he wasn’t in both times he used timeskip on Dyspo so it doesn’t really line up here.
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- #200
The premise is they resist it, They resist the dragon when they're intention is against the wish. This is always how it is. The way they are affected is under their control. The wiki supports this stance as plausible for one. Plus the power is the cause of the Negation. These abilities have the effects of haxs. It's not a weakness.
All of my example show its with power. Like how can you say it's not with power. When Vegeta will be like I'll send a attack too powerful to destroy, or shenron saying he can't affect people stronger than him. It's so simple.
Exactly, he increased his potency. But what I'm saying is just because someone has a longer time stop doesn't mean its Potent
than someone who has a shorter one, you would have to prove that.
where is he struggling he just said it feels heavier, duh. Of course it would feel heavier.
You're acting like he HAS to be surprised. He doesn't, how can you say he's not resisting it when they show him moving in it. You have no point to stand on there's no causation for that notion.
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