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Dragon Talisman High-1A And 0 upgrade

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Antvasima said:
Okay. Can somebody summarise all of the relevant information here so I and others can help with making a decision please?

Is this simply a Suggsverse-style powerscaling verse with no other story beyond that, or is it a legitimate storyline? I am not fond of spamming our tier 0 category page with more and more of these types of hollow pseudo-stories in the SCP-style.
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It has a storyline, Ant. A pretty coherent and easy one to follow. Whether or not it's a good story is subjective and not particularly relevant.

Plus, we deal with SCP Tier 1s. We're significantly beyond the point of complaining about pseudo-stories.
 
Antvasima said:
Zaratthustra said:
I mentioned in the past that I don't want to participate in the thread and ignored all the calls from different users as I don't like to go on verses of such high scaling but today's posts made me.

@Phoenks Do you have any constructive to say about the thread or are you just here to vent about X has that scaling, Y is wank, Z is like Suggverse, etc? If nothing helpful then don't comment as it's just a derailment for the thread. Did you read the novel to know if it's like Suggverse or Hybrid Mage? No, then you can't know how a novel, book, tv series, or the like is by just seeing a fragment of it - its like seeing Saitama sneeze a planet away, or him crushing a portal with bare hands, and then say its like X series that has similar feats but a bad plot, even worse written characters, and no world building, then group both of them in the same league. Guess we ignore all the story development till that point of our MC, different side characters with their own lives and developments, and the world setting that has been built around it.

"No one write things like this" - joke on you, then guess all the thousands of web novels, light novels, games, tv series, etc with tier 1 are all shit and have no ground to be on wiki as no normal human would write something about higher dimensional beings destroying universes, higher dimensions, etc. Sure its sounds funny, and even cringe when the author adds "Nanoverse, Microverse, Mesoverse, Megaverse, Gigaverse", or "unintelligible, unspeakable, unpredictable, unpredictable, unintelligible, unexplainable, unknowable, unobservable, unresearchabl" but that's his right and creativity at work to do whatever he wants with his story; if he couldn't find better names then that's it, while the second quote goes to Buddhism and Taoism teachings and scriptures which also use the same phrases, or wait did you know that in the actual teachings, it's even longer and pompous?

Moreover, there were Multi-bodied Spirits as numerous as motes of dust in Buddhaworlds. Specifically, they were: Multi-bodied Spirit Cowl Adorned with Pure Flowers; Multi-bodied Spirit Light Illumining the ten directions; Multi-bodied Spirit Taming and Subduing with an Ocean-like Sound; Multi-bodied Spirit Cowl Adorned with Pure Flowers; Multi-bodied Spirit Limitless Aspects of Awesome Comportment; Multi-bodied Spirit Supreme Light Adornment; Multi-bodied Spirit Pure Light and Clouds of Fragrance; Multi-bodied Spirit Protecting and Gathering In; Multi-bodied Spirit Universally Manifesting to Gather In; and Multi-bodied Spirit Unmoving Radiance. These and others acted as leaders, and they were as numerous as motes of dust in Buddhaworlds. In the past, they all had fulfilled great vows to make offerings to and attend upon each and every Buddha.


This is just a small fragment (of the first page of Avatamsaka - The Wondrous Adornments of the Rulers of the Worlds) of the whole thing, it goes like that for a pretty long time.

Or let's see this one





Same sutra but the Ten Spiritual Powers chapter. Guess we will can now even this a cringe, suggverse, hybrid mage shit writing, an actual scripture going by your words since the author only took a small part of the actual sutra and used while the real one is "even more grand". I, unlike you, have tried to read the novel Sage Monarch (same verse, same author) and after 100+ chapters I dropped as it wasn't my taste and also 100+ chapters from Eternal Life (which was interesting) and also tried a bit over 50 from Emperor of the Cosmos (both from the same author and share the verse) which I stopped reading as it didn't have a translation which means that unlike you I hold more rights to call a novel shit, or bad since I actually read a part of it but even then its all my perspective (after actual reading), and that's why I don't do it.

Why does the novel have such a high power scale? Its in the genre of Xianxia, Xuanhuan which is a power fantasy that uses either modern concepts, old mythologies, or a mix of the two or more such things. It's an intrinsic characteristic of them like how shonen anime are a group of series that have relevant fighting, action, friendship, etc but mostly focus on fighting. If X want to index such a series, its their free will to do so as long as they respect the rules of the website which allows it as its not a fanfiction, and doesn't use different forms, characters or elements from specific series (like Blue and White since it was mentioned above), the author didn't add it himself, it wasn't made for battleboarding, etc. At the time of writting this series the author already had 10 years of experience and it wasn't his first rodeo.

The author himself, after finishing this book.

@Antvasima More or less the same thing I've said to Phoenks, you're not helpful at all in this thread and only are derailing it. You bring no contribution to this as you're not reading the actual statements from the novel, not trying to help with the scaling like other users have done (ex. Elizhaa, mentioning him since I know you are favoring staff members), and are only showing not your so subtle hate for CCP, guess Chinese in general (which actual users are on this thread...), which simply only shows you as a racist (which I'm more or less thinking you are at this point after all your interaction with the Chinese web novels threads and even outside of them when you rant about it). I, also didn't help with the thread be it scaling, evaluating, and verifying whatever point but at least I don't comment like you at any occasion I get the chance about China doing that, China did this, if you have an opinion about a group, a race, a nation, etc just keep it for yourself, your group of friends and don't let it outside of these spheres of influence as tons of people are doing it already because it doesn't help anyone but paint them with different negative characteristics (such as yourself at this point as racist)...Just stay out of it if you have nothing constructive to say about the actual series. I'm more disappointed in you than in anyone else in this thread as you expect others to be neutral while you're not.

Last note, the thread was evaluated, and accepted by different members of the website be it normal users, or staff members, the CRT has been on for a long time and no one else commented but bumping in the hope that somehow Ultima will comment again (which he didn't and didn't participate for a long time). If you or anyone else have something against the tier, then make actual arguments using the text from the novel to base your arguments or actually construct them to be about the tier and not about its writing, plot, author, notability, etc. Close the thread, apply what has been evaluated and accepted and if you have problems then create a new thread with good arguments and counters. I will not participate in the scaling, and evaluating and continue to go on like I've done till now as I've posted sincerely because of this thread page is a pure derailment and because of nothing but a bad perspective on the Chinese novels from members who I would have expected more restrain when they basically know almost nothing to nothing about them and simple rant without a clue. Guess I will do a Bambu and simply continue to ignore these opinions (as I've done till now) and continue with my day while being less active.
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deonment said:
The way this is written is quite literally a toned-down version of actual Buddhist and Daoist texts, it is from those texts this work takes its inspiration, especially with the recursive aspect of cosmology. Examples of this in actual buddhist or buddhist based texts would be JTTW or texts which speak about buddha-lands in atoms.
This style of writing and vast scale is quite common within eastern xianxia or xuanhuan as can be seen with cultivation novels holding planets as large as stars, galaxies as large as universes, and what have you. The reason why they do have these absolutely vast scales of magnitude untold is due to the fact that they are most of the time basing these works upon eastern philosophy or religion which is far, far, far more absurd than what you see here, with those faiths also being an actor behind multiple of our tier 0 or High 1-A verses, so a verse which is basing itself upon those religions also reaching that peak, while also not being a flagrant attempt to create THE most powerful verse in fiction when compared to those other two
If you are holding an issue with the names given to the multiverses however, then you should also hold issue with the name given to things in Isekai at Peace which has power levels being called Quasi-Omnipotent, Omnipotent, Beyond Omnipotent, and more, or how A Wild Last Boss Appear's later Volumes do things.
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Antvasima said:
Okay. Can somebody summarise all of the relevant information here so I and others can help with making a decision please?
Is this simply a Suggsverse-style powerscaling verse with no other story beyond that, or is it a legitimate storyline? I am not fond of spamming our tier 0 category page with more and more of these types of hollow pseudo-stories in the SCP-style.
Click to expand...
 
It has to be noted, what we consider power-scaling jargon and crap here, is simply a genre of writing in China. Hell even old novels I read back in 2016 which seemed tame as hell ended the MC creating tenth-dimensional universes and narratives.

It's just how a lot of these stories are, they don't care as much about nuance, or vagueness as some of the Tier 1/0 Verses we have here. Mostly because Tier 0 Verses written in the West have multiple authors and writers stretched across years and years, while these verses only have one.
 
Planck69 said:
It has a storyline, Ant. A pretty coherent and easy one to follow. Whether or not it's a good story is subjective and not particularly relevant.

Plus, we deal with SCP Tier 1s. We're significantly beyond the point of complaining about pseudo-stories.
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Okay. Then it should be fine.

I still think that we should delete SCP though, as it genuinely isn't a legitimate story, but that is not relevant here.
 
To start with just that it isn't the Suggsverse, but if somebody properly explains what needs to be evaluated here, I can try to help evaluate it or ask for help if I am unable to do so.
 
Antvasima said:
I still think that we should delete SCP though, as it genuinely isn't a legitimate story, but that is not relevant here.
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It is what it is.

Anyway, @ActuallySpaceMan42 I know this is probably a pain, but if the vote count isn't enough can you summarize the points and link to any new counters to be addressed by staff? That way, Ant can call them.
 
ImmortalDread said:
Hybrid Mage also had a storyline
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Planck69 said:
A pretty coherent and easy one to follow.
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ImmortalDread said:
Name of author?
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Zaratthustra said:
Why does the novel have such a high power scale? Its in the genre of Xianxia, Xuanhuan which is a power fantasy that uses either modern concepts, old mythologies, or a mix of the two or more such things. It's an intrinsic characteristic of them like how shonen anime are a group of series that have relevant fighting, action, friendship, etc but mostly focus on fighting. If X want to index such a series, its their free will to do so as long as they respect the rules of the website which allows it as its not a fanfiction, and doesn't use different forms, characters or elements from specific series (like Blue and White since it was mentioned above), the author didn't add it himself, it wasn't made for battleboarding, etc. At the time of writting this series the author already had 10 years of experience and it wasn't his first rodeo.
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Rabbit2002 said:
Heck. I can't believe anyone can compare Dragon Talisman and its creator with things like Hybrid Mage, Suggsverse. What makes them on the same level? Most fully adapted works (anime, manga/manhua, game, live action)? The author has nearly two decades of writing experience? 95% of the series has absolutely no tiershit elements? Millions to Tens of millions of fans and followers? The author does not exist in or know anything about vs battle or the term powerscalling? Earn millions of dollars with just copyright? Vice president of network literature of an entire province? A work with the most prestigious translator in the profession (Deathblade)? A martial arts master who has created martial arts work that has inspired many people through his adventures across many regions?
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I hope to rediscover my passion and express my ideas through my new book. Without saying too much, having written for ten years, I've experienced a lot - the good, the bad, the sweet, and the bitter. I've encountered all sorts of people, some kind and some evil, some helpful and some harmful. Some have offered a helping hand while others have kicked me when I was down. Some have stood by me through thick and thin, while others have watched from a distance. Many friends have come and gone, and only a few remain. Even the book enthusiasts who were with me in the past have scattered to the winds. Such is life - how many people can we truly count on for a decade? As time passes, we begin to realize that many things we once thought were important no longer hold the same weight. As the Orchid Pavilion Preface suggests, things we used to love have become mere relics of the past. After ten years of reflection, perhaps the flavor of my new book has changed, and I welcome you to read it and enjoy it at your leisure. Praise or criticism, both are welcome, for they are friends, visitors, and fate. Fate brings people together and also tears them apart. If you find my book good, please come and stay, but if you don't, please leave. My thoughts are ever-changing and unpredictable, so go with the flow.
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Author Himself after finishing Dragon Talisman.
His penname is Divine Dreamwalker [梦入神机].
 
I would like to interject and contribute my perspective on the scaling that you have presented, although I must confess that I am experiencing some difficulty in comprehending the entirety of the discourse.

If my memory serves me correctly, I recall being present in the thread where you introduced the scaling for 2-A and low 1-C tiers, which I presume to be agreeable to me. Therefore, I do not intend to expound any further on that matter.

As for high 1-B cosmology​


The statement in question is manifestly evident and unmistakable. My assumption is that the author has employed a literal approach in describing their cosmology, thus rendering any inclination to reject this line unwarranted.
The Mortal Realm was too big. It was divided into infinite continents, infinite dimensions and infinite worlds. Many continents and other continents could not be reached by flying. They were not on the same plane, so not only were the spatial lines different, but the timelines were also different. - Chapter 995
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​

1-A justification​


The present statement emanates from the justification in question, albeit the quoted text may not be directly observable, albeit I shall assume its veracity by virtue of the source material.
His attack covers everywhere the MC can hide and avoid. MC when he was much weaker (not even reaching Null Immortality lol) easily moved to an infinite Abyss that transcends all concepts of "size", "space" and "time" since these concepts do not exist and cannot describe its infinity and it's the source of everything
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Acceptable is the attribution assigned to the aforementioned category, namely baseline 1-A.

In terms of classifications pertaining to high 1-A and tier 0, the prescribed criteria are satisfactorily met, and the delineation of tier 0, in particular, is deemed commendable for its comprehensive depiction of the essential prerequisites.

However, the matter of NEP 2 necessitates an alternative categorization, specifically Aca type 5 and NEP 2, with the additional proviso of invulnerability to law manipulation, causality manipulation, and potentially TD type 2 (or type 3).
 
Rakih_Elyan said:
Author Himself after finishing Dragon Talisman.
His penname is Divine Dreamwalker [梦入神机].
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A pretty coherent and easy one to follow.
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The elucidation of the Hybrid Mage construct has been meticulously articulated by the Planck, albeit VsBattle Wiki's decision to reject the proposal on the basis of notability criteria, which I do not object to, as it is consistent with my rule creation that seeks to regulate such submissions.

Furthermore, I cannot discern any substantial dissimilarity between this concept and any other that has been broached by @Phoenks.

I respectfully request that we refrain from pursuing this matter further in this forum, as the comment in question was not directed towards you.
 
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I have deleted some derailing comments

Antvasima said:
So what is the staff consensus here so far?
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Elizhaa said:
What about the flower hierarchy (around chapter 630) that was discussed in the last thread, which could make 2-A to High 1-B?
Interestingly, that flower hierarchy statement is much earlier than the void statement around chapter 993.


Didn't the fight occur in the abyss/void, though, in chapters 1148-1150? If yes, it seems valid for 1-A as it was a higher realm.
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Qawsedf234 said:
As I said from the original comment the scaling itself seems valid to my understanding of how we treat superiority and unreachable gaps between 1-A, High 1-A and 0.
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Elizhaa agrees with a solid 1-A rating, Qawsedf also agrees with the OP and I trust Elizhaa's judgement.
 
Can somebody explain the justifications for the suggested tiers here in a single post please, so I can call for help from knowledgeable members?
 
Antvasima said:
Can somebody explain the justifications for the suggested tiers here in a single post please, so I can call for help from knowledgeable members?
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1A is for being beyond a hierarchy of universes transcending each other to infinity and statements of transcending concepts of space,time and size.

High 1A is for apophatic to 1A
 
Thank you, but we need more thorough explanations and examples than that.
 
Okay, so there has not been any important new or modified information since then?
 
Last edited:
I read through the thread a bit
And I think the major argument currently is not even the OP but rather whether the verse should be here
 
Well, I think that we already decided that part.
 
Should we wait for DontTalk to finish his two current tiering system revision threads before we continue here?
 
Okay. I still much prefer DontTalk and Ultima to take a look here before we allow anything beyond tier High 1-B though.
 
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