Dragon Talisman High-1A And 0 upgrade

[Setsuna_tenma]

bump

 

[Antvasima]

Well, this verse has been allowed, but we need to figure out the most reliable tiering for it.

Anyone?

 

[Rakih_Elyan]

Anyone?

Everything below tier 0 and High 1-A is accepted by everyone I think, Elizhaa still think it is tier 0 tho.

 

[Setsuna_tenma]

bump

 

[Muchacho_mrm]

Last bump.

 

[Setsuna_tenma]

bump

 

[Antvasima]

Well, this verse has been allowed, but we need to figure out the most reliable tiering for it.

@Elizhaa @Qawsedf234 @Planck69 @LephyrTheRevanchist @PrinceofPein @Ovy7 @Rakih_Elyan

We still likely need you to try to reach an agreement here.

Everything below tier 0 and High 1-A is accepted by everyone I think, Elizhaa still think it is tier 0 tho.

Otherwise we might need to use 1-A in lack of better options, as all of you have apparently accepted that.

 

[PrinceofPein]

@Elizhaa @Qawsedf234 @Planck69 @LephyrTheRevanchist @PrinceofPein @Ovy7 @Rakih_Elyan

We still likely need you to try to reach an agreement here.

Otherwise we might need to use 1-A in lack of better options, as all of you have apparently accepted that.

I have to say reading through the OP once again, I got the Suggverse feels. I was neutral to allowing it before but now I have to say we should not allow it, it is pure powerscaling and filled with flowery and inflated langauges which makes it hard to even say which to take serious or not

If we are going to allow it though, here is why they should not qualify for anything higher than 1-A, the whole High 1-B and gigaverse shenaningans is okay.
First, fix the spoiler tabs in the OP, some of them are a mess and I had to do the translations myself since I cannot access the translated scans below the chinese quotes

We do not grant 1-A for transcend the concept of size, space and time. it is still low 1-A based on the context, which is due to transcending a High 1-B structure

this is inflated in all honesty and not apophatic
but let us look closely at the scans

inability to understand something does not mean it is apophatic. it can be due to a differnet level of existence or power level

This does not mean anything tiering wise

This also, it is just difference in power levels when you remove the inflated languages
So this can all boil down to a single transcendence and adding the whole thing together still will not be anything aside "At least Low 1-A"

There are no arguments here aside being outside the frame work of deathless, which would be 1-A.

That said, my OG vote is that the verse should not be allowed since it is just too cringe in powerscaling terms, but if it is allowed that is my thoughts on it

I agreed with just 1-A

 

[Setsuna_tenma]

bump

 

[Antvasima]

So should we apply 1-A scaling then, in lack of better options?

 

[Larssx]

So should we apply 1-A scaling then, in lack of better options?

I think 1-A is a good option, but since there are admins who think it is H1-A or 0, I don't know how correct it is to make 1-A
Have you called the DT on this topic?
because this is a really important upgrade

 

[Antvasima]

DontTalk is very busy with more important content and policy revision threads.

 

[Larssx]

DontTalk is very busy with more important content and policy revision threads.

This crt has been open for a very long time, admins have expressed their opinions, but for some reason no one cares about this crt right now, so it takes a long time for someone to write a message.
Everyone has different opinions, including 1-A/H1-A/0
Now that if DT is busy, what should we do?

 

[Antvasima]

Well, use the minimum value that every staff and knowledgeable member here finds acceptable seems best, meaning 1-A.

 

[Setsuna_tenma]

so can this ctr finally be finished then

 

[BestMGQScalerEver]

At this point I'd just say make a blog about the 1-A stuff apply it and do another CRT to explain high 1-A and tier 0...

 

[LephyrTheRevanchist]

At this point I'd just say make a blog about the 1-A stuff apply it and do another CRT to explain high 1-A and tier 0...

literally what I suggested

 

[Rabbit2002]

Well, use the minimum value that every staff and knowledgeable member here finds acceptable seems best, meaning 1-A.

I had a short chat with Ultima yesterday (and today), ignoring his promise. So he said that Low-1A is now the old 1-A and Pain said this again, considering the time CRT was made, then can be considered High-1A accepted, just that the new standard has changed. I think applying 1-A is not a problem, it's just that we have to go around list 1-A and make them Low-1A (not all, just a large amount)

At this point I'd just say make a blog about the 1-A stuff apply it and do another CRT to explain high 1-A and tier 0...

literally what I suggested

Tier 0 will now be at least High 1-A so not sure if it's necessary
But yeah I'll make a blog about it

 

[Setsuna_tenma]

bump

 

[Ren1999]

Bump

 

[Deriot2]

I haven't read Dragon Talisman, but if there's one thing I've noticed about Xianxia, it's that it's full of hyperboles and in general diverse literary resources.

Some clichés I've seen in this genre are:

"Infinity" is often a trivial concept that only alludes to something huge, very huge and whose limits have not yet been understood (But they exist).

"Eternity/perpetuity" only alludes to ingested amounts of time, because even all those "Eternal" beings end up perishing when their universe (temporarily finite) does.

The "dimensions" or "higher planes" that perceive the lower ones as "fiction" are only larger worlds (sometimes by several orders of magnitude), whose concentration and density of matter per area is thousands, millions, trillions of times greater but not infinitely greater.

Now let's not even talk about the fact that bad translations do not usually benefit the correct understanding of many scenes.

What I am getting at is that I would take any post about a Chinese novel with a grain of salt, I personally would not accept profiles related to them, because they are easily taken out of context due to the flowery language, the lack of knowledge of them by the majority and the poor translations.

But anyway, it's just my opinion, I don't intend it to be taken into account, I just wanted to express it. .

 

[Muchacho_mrm]

Dragon Talisman is Xuanhuan not Xianxia but I think you meant cultivation novels in general. The fact that you haven't read the series and have posted a subjective generalization of Chinese novels is confusing because it makes me question what type of contribution to this thread your post serves.

There is a general thread for cultivation novels in general. I suggest you use that.

 

[Deriot2]

Dragon Talisman is Xuanhuan not Xianxia but I think you meant cultivation novels in general. The fact that you haven't read the series and have posted a subjective generalization of Chinese novels is confusing because it makes me question what type of contribution to this thread your post serves.

There is a general thread for cultivation novels in general. I suggest you use that.

Totally subjective no, I have read/am reading other works by dreamwalker and it is based on my experiences with his writing that I formulate my opinion.

As you said, I don't claim to have any interference in anything.

 

[Muchacho_mrm]

Totally subjective no, I have read/am reading other works by dreamwalker and it is based on my experiences with his writing that I formulate my opinion.

As you said, I don't claim to have any interference in anything.

I was also trying to gauge if you understand just how nonsensical and maddening scenario it is to come into a thread of a novel of which you have not read, generalize an entire branch of industry of a nation using negative tropes which may or may not be true let alone apply to the thread you posted it in, then somehow think it is contributing through the thread in any capacity.

Even if you are reading his other works, I suggest you read this series before you generalize his writing. I am speaking as someone who has read his other work and this.

 

[Unqver]

About Xvanhuan，Most authors indeed mix finite numbers with infinity, and in their eyes, those words are more aesthetically pleasing than infinity. However, when it comes to words that limit is not understood, the author will use words such as endless to describe them

 

[Unqver]

Totally subjective no, I have read/am reading other works by dreamwalker and it is based on my experiences with his writing that I formulate my opinion.

As you said, I don't claim to have any interference in anything.

In the Star River Emperor, it is infinite among those in the lower realm, but limited among those in the higher realm. Do you want to say it is this book?

 

[Ren1999]

so what is the conclusion of this crt, received 1A or H1A or again we wait 1 more month?

 

[Muchacho_mrm]

so what is the conclusion of this crt, received 1A or H1A or again we wait 1 more month?

Read this.

 

[Rabbit2002]

I haven't read Dragon Talisman, but if there's one thing I've noticed about Xianxia, it's that it's full of hyperboles and in general diverse literary resources.

Some clichés I've seen in this genre are:

"Infinity" is often a trivial concept that only alludes to something huge, very huge and whose limits have not yet been understood (But they exist).

"Eternity/perpetuity" only alludes to ingested amounts of time, because even all those "Eternal" beings end up perishing when their universe (temporarily finite) does.

The "dimensions" or "higher planes" that perceive the lower ones as "fiction" are only larger worlds (sometimes by several orders of magnitude), whose concentration and density of matter per area is thousands, millions, trillions of times greater but not infinitely greater.

Now let's not even talk about the fact that bad translations do not usually benefit the correct understanding of many scenes.

What I am getting at is that I would take any post about a Chinese novel with a grain of salt, I personally would not accept profiles related to them, because they are easily taken out of context due to the flowery language, the lack of knowledge of them by the majority and the poor translations.

But anyway, it's just my opinion, I don't intend it to be taken into account, I just wanted to express it. .

The fact that you do not read shows subjectivity. There is something called Amaranth Essence/Deathless Essence, it literally makes you last forever even if all existence, reality, multiverse, space and time, Heavenly Dao ends ("eternity" you mentioned is just Empyrean Life of verse. It's even more fun because right near the end of the story, people curse the MC for being a demon because he suddenly gives them a "life span" even if it lasts tens of trillions of years lol). Also the reason the universe has an finite lifespan is because of the existence of the cycle of creation and destruction from Old World/Endless Mainland's Heavenly Dao, which ended when MC messed up the whole framework with Dragonless Sutra (from Mortal Realm and onwards). And those who have Amaranth Essence (baseline Empyrean Primordial) cannot explore the entire smallest structure (like the human realm/mortal realm) with their entire lifespan because it is so vast, even though they have literally infinite lifespans and travel freely through dimensions, space-time continuums,...
Yeah maybe his other work shows that, but not here (except in a few cases, it's case by case)

 

[Malekith]

"Infinity" is often a trivial concept that only alludes to something huge, very large and whose limits are not yet understood (but they exist).

I've read more novels than I can remember, and there are very few exceptions that use the word infinity and then contradict themselves.

"Eternity/perpetuity" only alludes to ingested amounts of time, because even all those "Eternal" beings eventually perish when their (temporarily finite) universe dies.

The universe in the massive range of cultivation works is infinite in terms of its life cycle, because it is directly linked to the Heavenly Dao, which has no end. Therefore, even if the word eternal is used, it is still plausible, because in that context it is really eternal.

The "dimensions" or "higher planes" that perceive the lower ones as "fiction" are just worlds bigger (sometimes by several orders of magnitude),

AND? They are still higher dimensions, I did not understand this point.

Now let's not even talk about the fact that bad translations often do not benefit from the correct understanding of many scenes.

My point is, I would take any posts about Chinese romance with a grain of salt, personally I would not take profiles related to them as they are easily taken out of context due to the flowery language, the lack of knowledge of them by most and the poor translations.

I would say this only happens with lesser known novels, the big ones are always picked up by some big publishers like Wuxia, who in my opinion have very good translators.

This is really tiresome, people look down on cultivation novels a lot, it's literally meaningless prejudice. It's okay that there are those novels that happen some horrible things, but over the years you see less and less of this type and much more works with a depth not only in plot, world building, character development but in the philosophical part. (just a little rant last)

 

[Rakih_Elyan]

I've read more novels than I can remember, and there are very few exceptions that use the word infinity and then contradict themselves.

The universe in the massive range of cultivation works is infinite in terms of its life cycle, because it is directly linked to the Heavenly Dao, which has no end. Therefore, even if the word eternal is used, it is still plausible, because in that context it is really eternal.

AND? They are still higher dimensions, I did not understand this point.

I would say this only happens with lesser known novels, the big ones are always picked up by some big publishers like Wuxia, who in my opinion have very good translators.

This is really tiresome, people look down on cultivation novels a lot, it's literally meaningless prejudice. It's okay that there are those novels that happen some horrible things, but over the years you see less and less of this type and much more works with a depth not only in plot, world building, character development but in the philosophical part. (just a little rant last)

Chill bro.

He is just a junior cultivator who cannot see mount Tai.

 

[Malekith]

A frog at the bottom of the well

 

[Unqver]

I've read more novels than I can remember, and there are very few exceptions that use the word infinity and then contradict themselves.

The universe in the massive range of cultivation works is infinite in terms of its life cycle, because it is directly linked to the Heavenly Dao, which has no end. Therefore, even if the word eternal is used, it is still plausible, because in that context it is really eternal.

AND? They are still higher dimensions, I did not understand this point.

I would say this only happens with lesser known novels, the big ones are always picked up by some big publishers like Wuxia, who in my opinion have very good translators.

This is really tiresome, people look down on cultivation novels a lot, it's literally meaningless prejudice. It's okay that there are those novels that happen some horrible things, but over the years you see less and less of this type and much more works with a depth not only in plot, world building, character development but in the philosophical part.(just a little rant last)

But now in China, xvanhuan now the situation is very bad, becauseThose wonderful and beautiful stories are basically from those great writers, but the reason is that most new writers want to pinch the money（If I remember correctly, there are some corporate reasons.）, For this reason, there are few very good new xvanhuan writers, and the currently good works of xvanhuan are mostly from writers who are already very famous, such as chendong Ergen and tomatoes

 

[Malekith]

But now in China, xvanhuan now the situation is very bad, becauseThose wonderful and beautiful stories are basically from those great writers, but the reason is that most new writers want to pinch the money（If I remember correctly, there are some corporate reasons.）, For this reason, there are few very good new xvanhuan writers, and the currently good works of xvanhuan are mostly from writers who are already very famous, such as chendong Ergen and tomatoes

Jing Wuhen(The Legend of Futian), Flying Fish(God Emperor) e Ordinary Magician(Nine star Hegemon Body).All these write great novels too, not wanting to raise the bar, but God Emperor is at LOTM level in terms of plot and world building, character development is also not far behind.

 

[Setsuna_tenma]

bump

 

[Antvasima]

I had a short chat with Ultima yesterday (and today), ignoring his promise. So he said that Low-1A is now the old 1-A and Pain said this again, considering the time CRT was made, then can be considered High-1A accepted, just that the new standard has changed. I think applying 1-A is not a problem, it's just that we have to go around list 1-A and make them Low-1A (not all, just a large amount)

Tier 0 will now be at least High 1-A so not sure if it's necessary
But yeah I'll make a blog about it

Did Ultima refer to his ongoing argument with DontTalk? That has not finished yet as far as I am aware, so new standards have not been applied yet.

That said, DontTalk has much stronger staff support for his case.

At this point I'd just say make a blog about the 1-A stuff apply it and do another CRT to explain high 1-A and tier 0...

Yes, that is fine.

 

[PDB123456789]

But now in China, xvanhuan now the situation is very bad, becauseThose wonderful and beautiful stories are basically from those great writers, but the reason is that most new writers want to pinch the money（If I remember correctly, there are some corporate reasons.）, For this reason, there are few very good new xvanhuan writers, and the currently good works of xvanhuan are mostly from writers who are already very famous, such as chendong Ergen and tomatoes

Haha tomatoes don't climb to the top anymore. Reaching a top 20 qidian writer is also better than tomatoes. Chen Dong, Ergen, Pig nerd they are also so erratic I know at least 2 authors enough to crush them on the charts even as new authors. Many old authors because of long-standing fame pull up, but it is really difficult to compare with the Great Gods of the new generation(Vd:狐尾的筆 aka Hu ưei de bi, Mai Bao Xia Lang Jun

 

[Unqver]

Haha tomatoes don't climb to the top anymore. Reaching a top 20 qidian writer is also better than tomatoes. Chen Dong, Ergen, Pig nerd they are also so erratic I know at least 2 authors enough to crush them on the charts even as new authors. Many old authors because of long-standing fame pull up, but it is really difficult to compare with the Great Gods of the new generation(Vd:狐尾的筆 aka Hu ưei de bi, Mai Bao Xia Lang Jun

？But I seldom talk about their works in the China, even though they were all talked about many years ago.You rarely talk about their works in QQ or Baidu,Perfect world, covering the sky and devouring the stars，I can often see and discuss them，But I haven't seen many people who beat the clock in Dafeng.You think they're hot should be the Qi dianMonthly tickets over there, etc.I once saw a book called Wan gu shen di on Baidu, but few people discussed it.

 

[Setsuna_tenma]

bump

 

[Rabbit2002]

Did Ultima refer to his ongoing argument with DontTalk? That has not finished yet as far as I am aware, so new standards have not been applied yet.

That said, DontTalk has much stronger staff support for his case.

Maybe not. He said "More like it's "Transcending an infinite hierarchy and/or any finite additions of dimensions is Low 1-A.", "So it's not exactly going to downgrade all 1-A characters but potentially a chunk of them, yes." and "Though the thread pushing for that hasn't quite gone through yet."


Also, is transcending the concepts of size, space, and time, including High-1B structures Low-1A? Or is it still 1-A because the standard doesn't apply yet? I am very confused about this. Regarding DontTalk, isn't he planning to make Low 1-A = infinite +1 dimensions and 1-A = infinite + 2 dimensions? If so I guess this wouldn't be 1-A or Low 1-A (regardless of the difference in our standards for "transcend all dimensional spaces" treatment)